Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: willo on February 28, 2006, 11:29:04 PM
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So, who makes what? Apologies if the following doesn't read so clear, only I cut and pasted it from a thread I made on another forum, but I'm hoping some of the amp gurus here can shed some light on the situation:
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Well, I always thought the situation with Hi-Watt amps was kind of confusing, at least...
Basically, I was under the impression that the original 'Hi-Watt' trademark had been bought by Fernandes (of the 'Sustainer' guitar fame). I did some investigation and it became clear that the name is owned only be Fernandes in the US - in the UK it is owned by Music Ground, the shop that sells in Denmark Street, London, and in Leeds too.
As you can see HERE (http://www.musicground.com/hiwatt.asp), Music Ground is quick to point out that their Hi-Watt amps are not 'cheaply built like some reissue amplifiers', but that theirs are hand built, point to point and so on. Given that there are plenty of 'cheaply built reissue amplifiers' in my local music shop bearing the name 'Hi-Watt' (solid state and presumably made by Fernandes brand) I always assumed that the reference Music Ground were making was a pointed remark towards the Fernandes models.
Now, it gets confusing when you go to the two websites:
Music Ground Official Site (http://www.hiwatt.co.uk/)
Fernandes-Owned Site (http://www.hiwatt.com/)
They share the same artwork and so on...so whose making what? The UK site offers only the custom heads, whereas the US one has the much cheaper transistor models also, and advertises the Custom models as 'Made In The Custom Shops England'...so what I'm confused about are whether or not the heads offered by Fernandes are made by Fernandes themselves, or whether they are the UK Music Ground models and they are acting simply as a distributor? Either way, it seems kind of odd that a large company like Fernandes would act as a distributor for a small British based company. A comparable British company would be Matamp, and here's the difference between the UK site and the US distributors:
Matamp UK Official Site (http://www.matamp.co.uk/)
Matamp US Distributor (http://www.matamp.com/)
The overseas distributor is a much smaller operation, basically just one guy really. So either the Fernandes models are different, and a 'Hi-Watt' might not necessarily be a real 'Hi-Watt'; or the small British company has a multinational acting as it's US distributor which just seems plain odd. :mellow:
Also, there is this quote by Tom Petersson of Reeves Amps:
Reeves Amps came to be after a few conversations with Justin Harrison of Musicground in Leeds, U.K. During the course of one of our conversations Justin mentioned that they own and manufacture Hiwatt. Justin clued me in that Fernandes owned the Hiwatt name and trademark in the U.S., thus preventing Hiwatt U.K. from selling amps in the United States. Well, my wheels started to turn and I came up with the idea of re-badging the Hiwatt U.K. with "Reeves" since Dave Reeves started Hiwatt back in the '60s. What better way to keep the lineage going?
Full Interview Here (http://www.12stringbass.net/master.htm?http://www.12stringbass.net/BillJansen.htm)
Reeves Amps (http://www.reevesamps.com/)
Do you see why I'm a little confused?
Anyway, yeah, Hi-Watts are great. I fully plan, in the next year or two, to get either a Hi-Watt or a Matamp (Matamps are great too, plus you can go to their factory, try all the amps, get it completely customised and so on. Cheaper than a Hi Watt too...oh, and Jimmy Page & Peter Green used them - the 'Orange' amplifiers used to be just one product Matamp offered before they branched off, but that's another story...). It took me a while to actually find a price for a HiWatt head online, but you're looking upwards of £1500.
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I know that the valve HiWatts that were used by such people as Pete Townshend and Dave Gilmour as well as some more modern takes on the HiWatt valve amps of yore are made in Doncaster, South Yorks. for Music Ground, who's base used to be in the town, but who moved their main business to Leeds a few years back, and then got premises on Denmark St.
I always thought that the small solid state amps were made under licence for them...?
Matamp UK are the manufacturer, where Matamp US have always been the distributor for the US market, who have now branched out into building by the looks of things. I'm assuming that as these new "Electric" amps look like the various GTO/L/R model Matamp's, that they are in fact licenced from Matamp, they're certainly being marketed as the same as a Matamp at Matamp buyers. Maybe HJM knows more about this.
Anyway, I'd love either a Matamp or a HiWatt myself, but the HiWatts are bloody expensive compared to the Matamp's, and the fact that Matamp have some cracking designs and features, I'm strongly leaning towards getting one when I've managed to get enough cash together (when I'm not spending it on buying guitars, pickups and effects that is! ;) ).
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I'm pretty sure Matamp make those Hiwatt amps for Music Ground in any case (they certainly make the cabs).
You can still get an original Hiwatt for less than a reissue so I can't see why you would buy a RI model.
Matamps are a different case as the current range is completely different in design (intentially) to the old Matamps - i.e. they're not competing with themselves.
:twisted:
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HiWatt cabs come from a firm called Straight Edge...or something Jeff's allways talking about them . They make cabs for lots of people, like Ashdown, Cornford, Orange and more.
Jeff used to make the cabs until recently, and still does a few one-offs.
Joel is no longer the Matamp US distributer, but has his own company called Electric Amp building Matamp style amps but not linked to Matamp in any other way. www.matamp.com is not official at all....
Music Ground have the rights to HiWatt in Europe and certain territories, fernadez own the USA! Rick Harrison sells Reeves in the US to avoid the problem...
MNatamp do however make Harry Joyce amps (the man who built the HiWatts to Dave Reeves' design!)
And you thought you were confused before.....
:wink: :roll:
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Hayden, I was hoping you'd chip in...although you've confused me altogether now! :lol:
So, right, let's have an amplifier. We'll call it Steve. It's been made by Music Ground.
In the US, Steve would be sold as a Reeves, is that correct? Are Reeves amps Music Ground amps? or something different, another Hi-Watt copy? Are Music Ground's sold in the US under the Fernandes name?
this is confusing, i'm only a guitarist...
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Music Ground own and build HiWatt here in England, when they go to the US they become Reeves as HiWatt trademark in the USA is, as you said, owned by Fernandez!
The cheper HiWatt tranny amps are part of the UK (Music Ground) line, not Fernandez.
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Right - cheers for that, Hayden. I'm glad I think I finally understand it! :)
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Also Hayden, these Harry Joyce amps, have you got any info on them? All I was able to find out was that unfortunately, Harry Joyce passed away 3 years ago. From the look of the website I found, it looked very much like those amplifiers aren't in production any more...
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I'm pretty sure they'll be back before long. If what I'm told is right anyhow. Plus with Matamp doing the job you know it'll be damn good.
As for Fernandes, I can't stand how they're pirating a classic British name the way they are. It's almost infuriating. :evil:
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They are in small scale production, Harry's widow and Jeff are continuing production at Matamp, I know there's a rather nice white Harry Joyce head and 4x12 going at the moment....
There are issues at the moment because the US distributer registered the Harry Joyce trademark in the US and refused to pay his outstanding debt to Harry's widow when Harry passed away.....hassle! If you think that's hassle then then how about the US Matamp distributer registering the Matamp trademark in the US....oh and Mesa Boogie registering a load of Matamp circuits for their new amps!
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It's very much dog eat dog in the world of amp design.
That white Harry Joyce at Matamp is certainly a looker, never heard it switched on though I am sure it's up to the usual monsterous Matamp standard.