Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: vega on March 20, 2013, 06:29:31 PM
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Hi, I'm considering replacing the stock Gibson bridge pickup (490T) in my SG Special Faded (dated 2000) with something else, and wondered if anyone had anything they would recommend? Either companies or specific pickups.
Live, I play through a Marshall Vintage Modern 100w and use the "high dynamic range" channel as my main sound overall. I use an EQ pedal to quieten things every now and again, but mostly try and use the dynamic of specific parts to determine how much gain is needed, how hard to dig in, etc. I normally push my mids high (7-8) and roll off the treble (4).
In the studio, I use the same amp and guitar, but double almost everything with a Fender Jazzmaster.
The results can be heard here: http://carsonwells.bandcamp.com (http://carsonwells.bandcamp.com)
In terms of the sound I'm going for with a new pick-up, I'd like something tighter from the guitar, with a little bit more definition, whilst keeping the overall dynamic control (if this makes sense?!). I'm happy with the way the amp sounds, but want a bit more clarity overall. I can achieve this at the moment by rolling back the pre-amp gain on the amp, but this inevitably makes things too clean and I'd rather avoid this. I've tried reversing how the current set-up works by rolling off the amp gain and boosting using an EQ, but it sounds too hyper/forced.
So far, I've been tempted by:
Di Marzio 'Super Distortion' - simply because Iain McKaye of Fugazi used one in his SG (played through a Marshall).
Bare Knuckle 'The Mule' - recommended by the chap who recorded the album posted above, and viewed as a half-way house between my current live sound and the overall sound of the album.
Seymour Duncan JB - recommended for being an 'all-rounder' and for easy availability/price.
Since these recommendations, I've checked out other Bare Knuckle pickups, with the Cold Sweat standing out for its clean sound. The biggest problem with the Bare Knuckle samples (and A LOT of YouTube demo videos) are their tendency to be heavily focused on one sound (metal, classic rock, etc.). I thought it was a good idea to post this and see if anyone had any experience/samples that didn't predominantly feature these genres.
Apologies for the long essay. Any help is really appreciated! Cheers, Ross
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If these three are the candidates you are comparing apples with pears. The low output Mule (alnico IV magnet) has a genuine PAF59-sound, the Super Distortion has a ceramic magnet with a dc-resistance around 13,5 k, the JB (alnico V magnet) is high output with a dc-resistance of 16,4 k.
I can testify that the Mule is fantastic with a superb balance and complex, almost 3D-tones. I would also look at RiffRaffs, they particularly do very well in SG's.
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From what I hear of your album (which I so far really like, kind of reminds me of Fordamage (http://"http://fordamage.bandcamp.com/") and Shellac), I think the Riff Raff set could work for you (the neck is wonderful too). You might also want to give the Rebel Yell a look for a bit more push and a more modern tone, but that a bit of a wild guess since I never tried it myself.
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If these three are the candidates you are comparing apples with pears. The low output Mule (alnico IV magnet) has a genuine PAF59-sound, the Super Distortion has a ceramic magnet with a dc-resistance around 13,5 k, the JB (alnico V magnet) is high output with a dc-resistance of 16,4 k.
I can testify that the Mule is fantastic with a superb balance and complex, almost 3D-tones. I would also look at RiffRaffs, they particularly do very well in SG's.
Haha, I'll make no bones about it - I know next to nothing about pickups and have never changed them in any of the guitars I own or have owned. Is there any particular aspect of a ceramic or alnico magnet which would be conducive to the sound I'm after? I.e. should I be looking at pickups specifically with ceramic or alnico magnets? (Apologies if this is a daft question!) What difference does the dc-resistance make? (total noob :( )
Thanks for seconding the Mule. I'll check out the RiffRaff!
From what I hear of your album (which I so far really like, kind of reminds me of Fordamage (http://"http://fordamage.bandcamp.com/") and Shellac), I think the Riff Raff set could work for you (the neck is wonderful too). You might also want to give the Rebel Yell a look for a bit more push and a more modern tone, but that a bit of a wild guess since I never tried it myself.
Thanks for listening and I'm glad you enjoyed it! :)
At the moment, I'm only really looking at changing the bridge pickup on my SG. This is mostly down to financial restraints and the fact that I barely play the neck pickup in this band. I checked out the Rebel Yell's sound clips yesterday and there certainly seemed to be a real body to it. I did wonder, though, whether it would be overbearing or forced; i.e. should I be prioritising clarity over body (something my amp gives me plenty of).
Many thanks for your help!
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Ok, let's make things not complicated: alnico is warmer and organic sounding, ceramic is tighter and to my ears a bit colder sounding. All BKP's have tremendous clarity, dynamics and noteseparation, even with highgain.
When you after a more classic Les Paul/SG-sound, then look at the Mule or the RiffRaff. Those two deliver classic tones, but can handle a lot of gain very well. I can play everything with Mules, except for metal it is not the first choice. If you want a higher outpick pickup (which will hit the preamp of your amp harder) with a more contemporary tone look at Cold Sweats or (maybe) Rebel Yells.
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I know next to nothing about pickups and have never changed them in any of the guitars I own or have owned. Is there any particular aspect of a ceramic or alnico magnet which would be conducive to the sound I'm after?
Telerocker's answer is as good as possible. For the kind of tones I heard on your record I think you want alnico pickups.
What difference does the dc-resistance make? (total noob :( )
Overly simplified : higher DC resistance = more turns on the bobin = higher output level and less highs.
BUT this is really true only for the same wire gauge, magnet type, construction and winding, so you shouldn't pay too much attention to this, except possibly as a very wide and mostly unreliable indication of overall "hotness" of the pickup.
At the moment, I'm only really looking at changing the bridge pickup on my SG. This is mostly down to financial restraints and the fact that I barely play the neck pickup in this band.
The neck Riff Riff is very clear sounding and articulate, with something almost single-coilish, and I definitely see how you could use it for your clean/crunch tones.
I barely used my neck pickups until I started using BKPs FWIW.
I checked out the Rebel Yell's sound clips yesterday and there certainly seemed to be a real body to it. I did wonder, though, whether it would be overbearing or forced; i.e. should I be prioritising clarity over body
Clarity, dynamic, articulation and note separation are really BKP trademark so you shouldn't worry too much about this ;)
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Clarity, dynamic, articulation and note separation are really BKP trademark
+1
Cheers Stephan
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mules!
just unwillingly sold a mule set for a friend
he's putting them in a really nice '82 greco sg standard
I had it in a jap hurricane lp copy (installing my spare vhII set now)
you'll find lots of great mule clips on players section, but mostly in les pauls and PRS's
here's a couple sg clips, but they're in much higher gain levels than you use
https://soundcloud.com/tom_the_beast/170812-2
https://soundcloud.com/tom_the_beast/sounds-like-clutch-2
the mules will do your thing in a similar way to the 490's, but with greater clarity and nicer organic detail
but if you want a more spanky and defined response, the riff raff is the way
cool band, by the way
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Whilst I defer to the other guys' excellent recommendations, just going back to your original post:
You mentioned you liked the sound of the Cold Sweat (bridge, presumably), which no-one has followed up. I just wanted to say that the Cold Sweat set is excellent in SGs, lots of tightness and clarity from the bridge model and a much warmer, sweeter tone from the neck model.
The bridge is ceramic, though, and I'm sure the guys are right that alnico is a better match for your style.
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Many thanks for everyone's responses, I really appreciate it.
I've decided to ditch the Seymour Duncans and Di Marzio options. After visiting my local guitar shop and having a look at the Bare Knuckle stock they had in, and weighing up the responses in this thread, I'm convinced that Bare Knuckles are the way to go. Clearly, it's between The Mule and the Riff Raff. I'll have a look around the clips online and then place an order early next week. I'm even tempted to go the extra mile and get The Mule in the bridge and put a Riff Raff in the neck (and take out the EQ pedal out altogether...).
Thanks again, dudes! :)
Philly Q - Thanks for your post (I typed out the above before seeing your post, sorry!). While I did like the Cold Sweat, I'm tempted to stick with The Mule or Riff Raff in the bridge, but will certainly consider the Cold Sweat if I change the neck pickup too.
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the vhII has a quite similar voicing to the cold sweat, but less 80ish sounding
punchy bass and focused and detailed top and more controlled midrange
lot in common with the riff raff as well, but slightly more powerful
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I'm even tempted to go the extra mile and get The Mule in the bridge and put a Riff Raff in the neck (and take out the EQ pedal out altogether...).
I'd do the exact opposite and have Riff Raff bridge, Mule neck, but fair enough if you like a bright neck pickup. :)
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I'm even tempted to go the extra mile and get The Mule in the bridge and put a Riff Raff in the neck (and take out the EQ pedal out altogether...).
I'd do the exact opposite and have Riff Raff bridge, Mule neck, but fair enough if you like a bright neck pickup. :)
I second this, or opt for a calibrated Mule-set.
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I think the RR bridge can't be beat! I'd go with the RR/Mule configuration.
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I'm even tempted to go the extra mile and get The Mule in the bridge and put a Riff Raff in the neck (and take out the EQ pedal out altogether...).
I'd do the exact opposite and have Riff Raff bridge, Mule neck, but fair enough if you like a bright neck pickup. :)
As someone that likes a warm bridge and a clear bright neck I think the Mule bridge / RR neck combo could be the ticket :mrgreen:
Clearly, it's between The Mule and the Riff Raff. I'll have a look around the clips online and then place an order early next week.
You may want to AskTim(tm) before placing your order - the guy really knows its products.
While I did like the Cold Sweat, I'm tempted to stick with The Mule or Riff Raff in the bridge, but will certainly consider the Cold Sweat if I change the neck pickup too.
The Cold Sweat neck might be way too powerful to match a Mule or RR bridge.
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Ended up going for the Bare Knuckle Riff Raff in the bridge and a Mule in the neck. Really excited to get them installed!
Must point out this video for being a good help, alongside all of the above comments, in deciding on the combination:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D756154qUdo&list=PL55A719F3D0CC51E9&index=8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D756154qUdo&list=PL55A719F3D0CC51E9&index=8)
Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions and comments!
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Excellent choice, I hope you like them. Let us know!
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Hope you'll like them, but the more I listen to your (very excellent) LP the more I think you should be happy with this set. FWIW you now have a small but hopefully growing fan base here in Bordeaux France 8)
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Had the pickups installed last week and had a practice this week - totally thrilled with them! They are definitely what I was looking for, so thanks once again dudes for all of your help. :)
BigB - Thanks, man! We're actually going to be playing a couple of UK dates with the French band Baton Rouge (ex-Daitro members; are you a fan?) in a couple of weeks - really looking forward to it! Who knows, maybe one day we'll make it over to France!
Thanks again, everyone!
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You may want to AskTim™ before placing your order - the guy really knows its products.
Fixed that for you. Alt + 0153 is your ticket mate ;)
On the topic at hand: My vote is for the RR bridge. Thing with BKPs is that you always get multiple PUs that can do the same thing equally well, just in different ways.
It´s like you want a hearty meal to satisfy your hunger and you get a world class chef serving you 3 amazing hearty dishes which are all very different in ingredients. Now try to pick only one xD
When you got the RR bridge and wanne add a neck PU (with the finances being what they are you can hold up on that no problem, but in the long run I would say an upgrade there is worth it, you´d be suprised) the question you gotta again ask yourself is what do I want out of it with the Mule being that classic warm neck sound (but with amazing range) or the brighter more agressive classic neck sound that a RR will deliver.
Either way will leave you with a huge improvement and a grin on your face that will make your fellow musicians rather uncomfortable I suspect. Happens when I get new BKPs anyhow.
Cheers!