Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: richard on March 26, 2013, 06:41:31 PM

Title: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: richard on March 26, 2013, 06:41:31 PM
A lot of forums have threads asking for recommendations for overdrive pedals and each time I read one I see references to pedals/manufacturers I've never heard of before. It's like new species of insects being discovered in the rain forest. So, including overdrives, distortions, clean boosts, treble boosters - how many different gain increasing pedals would you guess are available today ?
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on March 26, 2013, 07:06:39 PM
I'd say probably close to 10,000. There are tons you have never ever heard of and ever will.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Elliot on March 26, 2013, 09:33:38 PM
and all are variations of the TS808 (well, not quite, but a heck of a lot are).
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Plenum n Heather on March 26, 2013, 11:09:00 PM
and all are variations of the TS808
HA! Truth!
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: richard on March 26, 2013, 11:37:14 PM
There are TONS of o/d pedals that sound nothing like a TS. There are also loads that are just a slight variation of the TS. Sorry, I'm drunk and, if there was a point I was trying to make, I can't remember what it was. Goodnight folks.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: juansolo on March 26, 2013, 11:50:01 PM
There are shiteloads of OD's out there. The vast majority of which are indeed based around 2-3 basic circuits. But then there are loads of amps out there that are based based around 2-3 basic designs also. Same essentially for guitars.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Alex on March 27, 2013, 08:39:58 AM
The overdrive market has mushroomed!
I remember when I was looking for my first one about 15 years ago, there was already a healthy range available, but nothing compared to now.

One thing I learned about overdrive pedals over the years is that the price means nothing. A cheap unit can be just as good as an expensive one.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: juansolo on March 27, 2013, 09:38:33 AM
The overdrive market has mushroomed!
I remember when I was looking for my first one about 15 years ago, there was already a healthy range available, but nothing compared to now.

One thing I learned about overdrive pedals over the years is that the price means nothing. A cheap unit can be just as good as an expensive one.

Yep. If you can mass produce them, you can make them for peanuts. Proper peanuts. Anything over about £150 for an OD, even a handmade one, is taking the piss. Then again, you'd be daft not to charge what the market was prepared to pay, so I don't begrudge people asking and getting more. Doesn't mean they're not taking the piss though.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: dave_mc on March 27, 2013, 12:58:52 PM
and all are variations of the TS808 (well, not quite, but a heck of a lot are).

:lol: +1

there are about 50,000 (yep, made that number up, you got me" :oops: ) overdrives currently on the market, and I'm guessing 75% of them (and that's probably a conservative estimate) are based on about 5 basic circuits.

There are shiteeloads of OD's out there. The vast majority of which are indeed based around 2-3 basic circuits. But then there are loads of amps out there that are based based around 2-3 basic designs also. Same essentially for guitars.

true, but at least (normally) with amps and guitars the price plays at least some part in the quality of the thing. As alex said, even cheapo ODs can sound good... you can't really say the same for a £20 guitar or amp (most of the time, anyway).
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: richard on March 27, 2013, 03:39:28 PM
The answer is - there are currently 127,442 overdrive type pedals on the market. Soon, every box of breakfast cereal will contain a free TS clone. Lego versions of the most popular pedals are imminent. By 2016 there will be more overdrive pedals than there are wire coat hangers. O/d pedal design will replace mathematics in the school curriculum. 
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on March 27, 2013, 03:43:17 PM
The answer is - there are currently 127,442 overdrive type pedals on the market. Soon, every box of breakfast cereal will contain a free TS clone. Lego versions of the most popular pedals are imminent. By 2016 there will be more overdrive pedals than there are wire coat hangers. O/d pedal design will replace mathematics in the school curriculum.

No....Wire.....Hangers.....EVER
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Mr. Air on March 27, 2013, 07:11:38 PM
It seems pretty crazy that there's a market for all those OD/distortion pedals out there.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: JDC on March 27, 2013, 08:48:58 PM
I only know of tubescreamers so what other circuits are these pedals based off?
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: JimmyMoorby on March 27, 2013, 10:09:52 PM
I only know of tubescreamers so what other circuits are these pedals based off?

Boss DS-1.  Satriani and Vai used them all over their first records.  I'm sure Van Halen and Zakk Wylde used them too but theyve all moved on to new stuff.

Malmsteen used the DOD 250 which is said to be similar to the MXR distortion plus which Randy Rhoads used.

I love my Wampler Pinnacle but it was very pricey and in terms of value it shouldnt be that much more expensive than say something by joyo us dream or vintage ovedrive or the digitech bad monkey which you can pick up dirt cheap or free with magazines like I did!
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Philly Q on March 27, 2013, 10:56:11 PM
I only know of tubescreamers so what other circuits are these pedals based off?

Boss DS-1.  Satriani and Vai used them all over their first records.  I'm sure Van Halen and Zakk Wylde used them too but theyve all moved on to new stuff.

I'm on very shaky ground here, being extremely ignorant about pedals, but...... I'm sure you're right about the DS-1 and who's used it, but isn't that a distortion as opposed to an overdrive? 

I think the old Boss overdrive would be the OD-1?  I don't know if it's regarded as any kind of classic though.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Dmoney on March 27, 2013, 11:27:46 PM
I only know of tubescreamers so what other circuits are these pedals based off?

Boss DS-1.  Satriani and Vai used them all over their first records.  I'm sure Van Halen and Zakk Wylde used them too but theyve all moved on to new stuff.

I'm on very shaky ground here, being extremely ignorant about pedals, but...... I'm sure you're right about the DS-1 and who's used it, but isn't that a distortion as opposed to an overdrive? 

I think the old Boss overdrive would be the OD-1?  I don't know if it's regarded as any kind of classic though.

Not thinking of the Boss SD-1? That is an overdrive and very similar to the tubescreamer. I think modding them to TS spec is fairly easy and common.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Philly Q on March 28, 2013, 12:58:52 AM
As I say, my pedal knowledge is shaky at best, but there was definitely an OD-1 overdrive in the late '70s, I think the SD-1 came a few years later.

I have absolutely no idea how well-regarded (or how frequently cloned) they may or may not be.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: JJretroTONEGOD on March 28, 2013, 01:04:36 AM
As I say, my pedal knowledge is shaky at best, but there was definitely an OD-1 overdrive in the late '70s, I think the SD-1 came a few years later.

I have absolutely no idea how well-regarded (or how frequently cloned) they may or may not be.

yes there was an OD-1, it's from the late 70s 'made in japan' using higher quality components, it absolutely trashes modern boss versions and even though it looks the same, sonically it's much more pleasing. I used to own an original 'made in japan' boss DD3 and it was definitely better than the new ones and sounded warmer. You sometimes see them on ebay go for silly prices.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: juansolo on March 28, 2013, 10:20:01 AM
Adding to the OD-1 and TS recently are a batch of Klon clones that don't advertise themselves as such...They're the three main big ones at the moment.

There are others, the Colorsound OD is really rather excellent. That can do quite a sweet OD, but also Distortion and at extreme settings, fuzz. It's the highest output OD I've ever come across. I don't think many people out there are using that one though. Shame.

But yeah, there are no real original ODs.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Elliot on March 28, 2013, 10:35:08 AM
I thought the Boss SD1 was derived from the Maxon/Ibanez TS circuit but twiddled to reduce the mid range hump.  Yes? No?
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: darkbluemurder on March 28, 2013, 12:12:22 PM
I thought the Boss SD1 was derived from the Maxon/Ibanez TS circuit but twiddled to reduce the mid range hump.  Yes? No?

I have read that they are different circuits but I have no details to confirm.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: gwEm on March 28, 2013, 12:25:10 PM
I thought the Boss SD1 was derived from the Maxon/Ibanez TS circuit but twiddled to reduce the mid range hump.  Yes? No?

I have read that they are different circuits but I have no details to confirm.

Cheers Stephan

my understanding here is the OD-1 came first, the TS copied it, and then the SD-1 copied that

following encouragement a couple of people from this forum, and an interest in Jake E Lee's tone, I discovered with Google that its fairly easy to mod an SD-1 into a OD-1. I did this on a pedal and it absolutely rocks.

these days i just use the following pedals for drive and i have little interest in experimenting further with that:

Juansolo Klone - works out with anything
DOD 250 - modded to original specs with Monte Allums specs, great with a strat
Thundertomate treble booster - good with a strat or PAFs
Boss OD-1 - use it for the "classic 80s" tone with humbuckers, makes me smile

I realise all of these work with different circuits.

I still like my modded Boss GE-7 and MI Audio Crunch box but rarely use them now. Really, I should sell or gift everything else I have in the overdrive pedal line.

Maybe I would like a good silicon fuzz or to try an Xotic EP booster.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: richard on March 28, 2013, 12:43:49 PM
gwEm, I remember reading the same story about the evolution of the OD1/TS/SD1. I decided about 5 years ago that I wanted an O/D pedal having not had one for a very long time since I bought the RAT2 when it first came out. I hated the RAT - swapped it for a yo-yo. I didn't NEED an O/D, I just thought I deserved one.

Being unfamiliar with the market I did a lot of internet research and eventually decided on a Boss OD3. I love this pedal and it's great for using with an unfamiliar amp because it will always produce a decent sound. I'm thinking about introducing it to my current set-up for a different flavour. I also have a Blackstar HT Drive which is good but the Boss has a sort of rawness to it that I prefer.

I realise I'm guilty of the thing that made me start this thread - so many posts ask for recommendations for O/D pedals, 100 guys reply all suggesting a different pedal.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Brow on March 28, 2013, 12:58:10 PM
following encouragement a couple of people from this forum, and an interest in Jake E Lee's tone, I discovered with Google that its fairly easy to mod an SD-1 into a OD-1. I did this on a pedal and it absolutely rocks.

Any idea if it's possible to make this mod switchable at all?

I have an old Japanese SD1 that cost me a tenner and I'd be interested in trying this mod myself it it was possible to do it on a switch.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Philly Q on March 28, 2013, 01:30:45 PM
Interesting that this discussion keeps coming round to Ibanez and Boss pedals, from my (sort of) outsider's perspective there seems to be a great deal of snobbery about Boss, but here we are praising them.  :wink:

Without wanting to go too off-topic, is there a bit of Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome in the boutique pedal market? 
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on March 28, 2013, 01:35:40 PM
Interesting that this discussion keeps coming round to Ibanez and Boss pedals, from my (sort of) outsider's perspective there seems to be a great deal of snobbery about Boss, but here we are praising them.  :wink:

Without wanting to go too off-topic, is there a bit of Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome in the boutique pedal market?

Oh come on, we still have a fresh Emperor's New Clothes thread on guitar wood, now you gotta bring pedals up too?

 :lol:
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: juansolo on March 28, 2013, 01:43:40 PM
Interesting that this discussion keeps coming round to Ibanez and Boss pedals, from my (sort of) outsider's perspective there seems to be a great deal of snobbery about Boss, but here we are praising them.  :wink:

Without wanting to go too off-topic, is there a bit of Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome in the boutique pedal market?

There shouldn't be any snobbery about Boss (Roland), some of the best stompbox designs ever came from them.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: dave_mc on March 28, 2013, 02:10:52 PM
I only know of tubescreamers so what other circuits are these pedals based off?

most are based on the tubescreamer :lol:

some are starting to be based on the bluesbreaker for a more transparent type of od pedal

the dist+/od250 gets cloned/modded a bit, too.

they've even started cloning the timmy :lol:
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: dave_mc on March 28, 2013, 02:16:50 PM
Adding to the OD-1 and TS recently are a batch of Klon clones that don't advertise themselves as such...They're the three main big ones at the moment.

oh right they're starting with klones now too are they? :lol:

Interesting that this discussion keeps coming round to Ibanez and Boss pedals, from my (sort of) outsider's perspective there seems to be a great deal of snobbery about Boss, but here we are praising them.  :wink:

Without wanting to go too off-topic, is there a bit of Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome in the boutique pedal market? 

absolutely not. :lol:

but yeah... i mean just go to tgp for some lulz. people going through hundreds of od pedals to find the elusive one and you see the lists they have and they're all slightly tweaked tubescreamers. I don't really blame them for getting duped, because unscrupulous companies are trying to dupe them. But a lot of them defend the companies that duped them when it's pointed out what was going on. that's mystifying, if you ask me.

i think the problem with boss is that the older ones were great, some of the newer ones aren't great (or not as great). And also in some of the models the buffers aren't so good (the sd1 has bleedthrough, for example). I don't have much experience with the older boss pedals, but the tonerider chorus i have is supposedly a tweaked ce2, and it's awesome. if all the older boss pedals are like that...

EDIT: aw cr@p, double post. I can't see how to delete this one either... :oops:
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: Elliot on March 28, 2013, 02:35:13 PM
On the issue of emperors' new clothes - I have 4 words on the subject: Freekish Blues Alpha Drive
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on March 28, 2013, 05:15:32 PM
Dave has a point though, why are there so many guitars of such similar shapes, and amps of similar designs, and why do some people favor one over the other, and then some other people favor a different one. There are still slight differences in each circuit that's unique. I bet even if you tried to copy a pedal exactly to spec you'd still do something different.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: gwEm on March 28, 2013, 08:59:21 PM
following encouragement a couple of people from this forum, and an interest in Jake E Lee's tone, I discovered with Google that its fairly easy to mod an SD-1 into a OD-1. I did this on a pedal and it absolutely rocks.

Any idea if it's possible to make this mod switchable at all?

I have an old Japanese SD1 that cost me a tenner and I'd be interested in trying this mod myself it it was possible to do it on a switch.

I don't think it will be possible to make it switchable easily :(
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: dave_mc on March 29, 2013, 11:09:39 AM
On the issue of emperors' new clothes - I have 4 words on the subject: Freekish Blues Alpha Drive

I had someone on tgp reply to me, in all seriousness and about a year after the whole thing came out, that the freekish "version" had mojo while the joyo version didn't.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: PTPDennis on April 16, 2013, 03:29:46 PM

I don't really blame them for getting duped, because unscrupulous companies are trying to dupe them.

Being that I own one of those companies, I thought I would chime in on this topic.
For starters- our Tube Screamer derivative is called the Dead Horse- I think its probably easy to figure out why. Additionally- We tell everyone right up front what it is. Its a hyper modified TS. But people like the mods that we've done. We've had other overdrive designs, that were not based on the TS, but simply said, they didn't sell, so we ended them.

Why do people buy boutique TS clones rather than a cheaper pedal? People buy them because they're built by hand with better components than the original, and/or modern day knock offs.

Why do people at TGP buy so many? Because each boutique manufacturer puts their spin on it. Example: My company markets to the metal crowd... so we extended the gain range, added more bass, and leveled out the mid-hump.
Some boutique guys like the exact opposite, so that's what they'll sell... and this continues on and on- a tweak here, and adjustment there- the little changes can make a huge difference.

I hope this sheds a little light on the thought processes involved.

Best,

Dennis
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on April 16, 2013, 04:09:50 PM

I don't really blame them for getting duped, because unscrupulous companies are trying to dupe them.

Being that I own one of those companies, I thought I would chime in on this topic.
For starters- our Tube Screamer derivative is called the Dead Horse- I think its probably easy to figure out why. Additionally- We tell everyone right up front what it is. Its a hyper modified TS. But people like the mods that we've done. We've had other overdrive designs, that were not based on the TS, but simply said, they didn't sell, so we ended them.

Why do people buy boutique TS clones rather than a cheaper pedal? People buy them because they're built by hand with better components than the original, and/or modern day knock offs.

Why do people at TGP buy so many? Because each boutique manufacturer puts their spin on it. Example: My company markets to the metal crowd... so we extended the gain range, added more bass, and leveled out the mid-hump.
Some boutique guys like the exact opposite, so that's what they'll sell... and this continues on and on- a tweak here, and adjustment there- the little changes can make a huge difference.

I hope this sheds a little light on the thought processes involved.

Best,

Dennis

Interesting point about catering to a certain crowd.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: dave_mc on April 16, 2013, 06:45:57 PM
Being that I own one of those companies, I thought I would chime in on this topic.
For starters- our Tube Screamer derivative is called the Dead Horse- I think its probably easy to figure out why. Additionally- We tell everyone right up front what it is. Its a hyper modified TS. But people like the mods that we've done. We've had other overdrive designs, that were not based on the TS, but simply said, they didn't sell, so we ended them.

Why do people buy boutique TS clones rather than a cheaper pedal? People buy them because they're built by hand with better components than the original, and/or modern day knock offs.

Why do people at TGP buy so many? Because each boutique manufacturer puts their spin on it. Example: My company markets to the metal crowd... so we extended the gain range, added more bass, and leveled out the mid-hump.
Some boutique guys like the exact opposite, so that's what they'll sell... and this continues on and on- a tweak here, and adjustment there- the little changes can make a huge difference.

I hope this sheds a little light on the thought processes involved.

Best,

Dennis

I have no problem if you're being up-front about it. It's the people who aren't being upfront about it who I'm complaining about. About once every 3 months, the newest "game changer" $400 overdrive on TGP is shown to be a very slightly modified clone of something which already exists.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: PTPDennis on April 16, 2013, 06:49:12 PM
right right... I just wanted to give a perspective that most people don't consider.

You're 100% right- most boutique brands over hype stuff.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: juansolo on April 17, 2013, 08:05:57 AM
About once every 3 months, the newest "game changer" $400 overdrive on TGP is shown to be a very slightly modified clone of something which already exists.

The simplest solution is not to read TGP. Honestly you'll be better for it. I've tried. I've even tried to help them with some things. I gave in. They're the most blinkered people on the planet... After 911 owners...
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: TheyCallMeVolume on April 17, 2013, 01:50:34 PM
About once every 3 months, the newest "game changer" $400 overdrive on TGP is shown to be a very slightly modified clone of something which already exists.

The simplest solution is not to read TGP. Honestly you'll be better for it. I've tried. I've even tried to help them with some things. I gave in. They're the most blinkered people on the planet... After 911 owners...

Was never into TGP. Thank goodness, too, judging from the comments here.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: dave_mc on April 17, 2013, 07:29:13 PM
right right... I just wanted to give a perspective that most people don't consider.

You're 100% right- most boutique brands over hype stuff.

:)

The simplest solution is not to read TGP. Honestly you'll be better for it. I've tried. I've even tried to help them with some things. I gave in. They're the most blinkered people on the planet... After 911 owners...

but then i'd miss out on the lulz! :lol: While it can be infuriating, it can also be hilarious :lol:
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: GuitarIv on April 21, 2013, 09:06:35 PM
I must say, I was a fool myself until I purchased a Digitech Bad Monkey for 30 quid. A friend of mine told me it would do it's job well and I was like "nah man, Digitech only produces cr@p". Then I needed a second Tube Screamer and was out of money, so I decided to take a shot in the dark and in the end it performs as well as my 120€ Ibanez TS-9DX. Another example that good gear doesn't need to be expensive.
Title: Re: Guess how many overdrives ?
Post by: JimmyMoorby on April 22, 2013, 12:38:01 AM
I must say, I was a fool myself until I purchased a Digitech Bad Monkey for 30 quid. A friend of mine told me it would do it's job well and I was like "nah man, Digitech only produces cr@p". Then I needed a second Tube Screamer and was out of money, so I decided to take a shot in the dark and in the end it performs as well as my 120€ Ibanez TS-9DX. Another example that good gear doesn't need to be expensive.

I preferred the bad monkey to the TS9! I've spent so many hours/days/months well actually since i started playing thinking of the best pedals to buy and spent a fortune.  I've now realised my amp sounds better with as few pedals as possible so I just use a Wampler Pinnacle in front of the amp for more gain and saturation and an Xotic EP Bosster, CMAT Mods Deeelay and a Keeley looper/switch for the fx loop.  To my ears its best sound ive ever had but guess i had to go through all those epensive pedals to lose money on them to get to this point!  Knackers