Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => The Dressing Room => Topic started by: clyde billt on April 08, 2013, 03:04:34 PM
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:D
Good riddance to the evil witch.
I'm having a drink tonight to celebrate
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Harsh.
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I'm assuming you knew her personally then?
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What is harsh is the Orwellian rewriting of history pouring out in the form of nonsensical tear jerking rhetoric from the mainstream media. I've had to deal with it all day in work and it's making me sick.
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I'm sick of hearing from the haters, they're on every forum and all over Facebook. She was voted into power by the public, and turned around a country that was at rock bottom. I see huge similarities in what she did and what the coalition is doing now - doing the right thing for the country is going to cause some pain, but overall it's the right thing to do.
Celebrating the death of someone is a very strange attitude to take, and I just don't understand it.
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My issue is that all I've heard on the radio or TV thus far is various MP's talking about how she was such a good leader.
She got elected by playing the race/immigration card at a time when emigration figures where higher. She wiped out a huge chunk of the countries industrial base which devastated families and vast areas of Britain and continues to do so today. She performed quite a few U-turns and isn't the mythological strong leader people think she was. The Falklands could potentially have been avoided was it not for intelligence concerning Argentinian preparations being ignored. Similar intelligence was gathered by the labour government in 1978 and used to avert war via diplomatic means. It's suggested the intelligence was ignored for political gain. She invented QUANGO's. Introduced heavy taxation and opened up a greater section of the population to heavier taxation while giving tax breaks to the richest, increasing the wealth gap (sound familiar). She introduced the 'Section 28' legislation in 1988 which (now repealed) was incredibly homophobic and led to increased gay rights activism. That was repealed in 2003 with only Kent County Council continuing to support the theme of the text. Massive youth unemployment led to huge increases in crime... but this and the minors strikes were dealt with by increasing police salaries to keep them on side. In addition to that you have the usual Poll Tax arguments, Social Workers professions, teachers counting for nothing, increasing spending on the military rather than the NHS etc... and condemning Nelson Mandela as a terrorist, while befriending some of the worlds most brutal dictators. Her son also sold a bunch of guns to countries like er... Iraq. And finally, let us not forget Hillsborough, the 96 dead and the cover up that ensued.
Hard to see why anyone would speak ill of her.
And before anyone says what I just did was an abhorrent rejoicing at someones death, it wasn't. It was pointing out arguments against the rhetoric appearing elsewhere that paints this picture of a glorious woman. She doesn't need to be remembered as a role model based on the dialog broadcast by whatever means at the time of her death. Her actions should at least be debated, because they require it...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWjm6XdtEb0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWjm6XdtEb0)
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Celebrating the death of someone is a very strange attitude to take, and I just don't understand it.
+1
I'm not into politics at all (mainly because I either don't understand it or just can't be bothered with it). It is the celebration of death that I really don't like and don't understand at all.
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Dmoney - I'm not sure every single thing on your list can be solely attributed to her. Plus hindsight is always 20:20.
Bottom line, she led the fixing of a broken country. Times change, industries change and communities change. It's time to look forwards and not backwards.
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I disagree.
I also think that saying "Times change, industries change and communities change..." is a gross oversimplification of what took place and what happened between then and now and what continues to happen, especially in the North of England, Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland. If people don't understand or have no interest in understanding those factors, then they can't hope to ever understand why someone my say "good riddance". I wouldn't be as quick to edge back in that direction in the name of austerity, in the manner of that time... but each to their own.
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I wondered if they're be a thread about this.
Personally, I find myself feeling totally indifferent to the news. It seems like I heard so much pro- and anti-Thatcher debate between 1979 and 1990 that, even though it was so long ago, I really don't want to hear it all again now. Quite glad to be in work today so I haven't had to hear/see the story completely taking over the web, TV and radio.
I might just bury my head under a pillow for the next 24 hours. Somebody shout when we're back to normal.
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I might just bury my head under a pillow for the next 24 hours. Somebody shout when we're back to normal.
this is my plan. although since I work at a broadcaster making sure their stuff gets broadcast, it might be hard. hahah! might try just sitting listening to my ipod. if your TV goes black, it wasn't me!
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I am disappointed to see this thread on the forum.
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Dmoney - I'm not sure every single thing on your list can be solely attributed to her. Plus hindsight is always 20:20.
Bottom line, she led the fixing of a broken country. Times change, industries change and communities change. It's time to look forwards and not backwards.
Dave - Countries don't break.
That's a tabloid notion that doesn't ever belong in any rational argument.
I was a passionate hater of Thatcher in the 80's - my politics were very left back then. I'm old enough now to realise that there aren't any absolute rights or wrongs, just like there's no absolute left or right. But the stuff that meant something to me back then - the miners, Greenham Common, mass privatisation of national assets to line the pockets of Tory donors - Thatcher (rightly or wrongly) became the poster girl for all that hate. And it's hard for me to let that go, although it gets easier over time!
:D
I'm less left now - that concept is dead and buried, I think.
There have been some interesting articles in the press today - not just the rubbish ones, Dmoney, but some interesting, dispassionate and fairly accurate ones too.
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I'm assuming you knew her personally then?
No I didn't, but I was very well acquainted with her policies and the misery it caused my family and countless of my friends families.
And it was at a very personal level.
Jobs taken, industries shut down, families ripped apart. All planned and managed at a very early stage
Even before the heart of racist England voted her into the top job
This isn't rhetoric or internet babble.
This is my personal memory, my experience.
I've waited ages for that bitch to die and I'm over the $%&#ing moon about it. It saddens me that she can't hear the vitriol thrown her way and the outpouring of hatred that her death has thrown up.
I only hope that her evil spawn hear it. Not that they'll be giving a $%&#.
Harsh?
I can understand how it would come across as that, but I make no apologies for it.
I was a working man in Thatchers Britain and a working class man in the north of the UK in the 80's was not a pleasant situation to be in
UB40 wasn't just the name of a pop band. They called themselves that for a reason.
The Beat had Stand Down Margaret in the charts only because Whine and Grine was a great dance tune (awesome dub B side if you get the chance to listen to it).
The establishment darling that Mr Costello is really meant the words to Tramp the Dirt Down.
All for a reason
The riots in Brixton Toxteth St Pauls and all the rest were real and came from anger and frustration at a system that was fully against them
If you didn't experience it then you cannot understand on how my opinion was formed.
And the opinion of countless miners, shipyard workers, dockers, steel workers........
If it seems harsh to you then that is good. That means you haven't experienced the hardship of a corrupt government.
That is what the Thatcher government was. It bears no relationship to any that came after, although Tony would loved to have gotten away with it
I started this on the off topic off topic forum, feel free not to participate
Anyway,
I'm having a drink to celebrate.
Have a dance with me
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K6YWX4OL0o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K6YWX4OL0o)
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Oooh, politics. This can only end well :lol:
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Oooh, politics. This can only end well :lol:
:D
You're so right. I'm off before Johnny Mack shows up - I'm sure I've already p!ssed him off about this on Facebook...
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I started this on the off topic off topic forum, feel free not to participate
Well, clearly you feel very passionately about this. Like Philly I'm indifferent to it all. I do feel that it isn't good forum form to post a thread that is likely to prompt heated exchanges and then tell others to not participate (unless, I'm assuming, they share the same opinion as you).
I'm wondering how long it will take for this thread to be locked.
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Dave - Countries don't break.
That's a tabloid notion that doesn't ever belong in any rational argument.
It was broken by previous poor governments, surely?
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I am disappointed to see this thread on the forum.
I was too Steve. I only participated to try and bring some balance.
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Dave - Countries don't break.
That's a tabloid notion that doesn't ever belong in any rational argument.
It was broken by previous poor governments, surely?
Nope. By definition you can't break a Country. Ain't like dropping a PRS...
:wink:
Bad sh!t happens, but nothing breaks. Bad people do bad things, but nothing breaks.
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I too lived through the times and these dabates in the 80s and I shall keep my own views private now.
What I was so sure of then, I'm not as sure of now and the same will probably apply to my current views tomorrow.
I just got back from a funeral today and for my part I see nothing to celebrate in anothers passing.
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Yes Ian I do feel very passionately about this subject. And for a very long time.
I can't feel indifferent to what happened, as it happened to me and my friends and family.
I posted on this section (off topic off topic) so people would participate.
It's a forum, a place where people openly discuss .
And it's not a problem if people don't share the same opinion as me.
I've been getting involved in arguments on this one since 1980.
After pickets, strikes, riots, police beatings and fist fights with co-workers, some people on the internet voicing their opinions is not something that would upset me.
Did you really think that I would have known her personally? Of course not.
Was your own post not designed to elicit a reaction?
I'm expecting others to participate, however it's not compulsory. If you dont really have anything to discuss then feel free not to to.
My ire is not directed at anyone on here.
Not at all, you are all good guys.
But yeah... I'm passionate on this one.
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What I was so sure of then, I'm not as sure of now and the same will probably apply to my current views tomorrow.
That's age, that is.
Or possibly wisdom.
Or beer.
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I'm 55 and, as a young man, I lived through an era of optimism where there were genuine reasons for thinking that life was getting better for all members of society in the UK. Maggie tore everything to pieces with her utter contempt for the working class and her unabashed love for the rich. Look at some of today's problems - no social housing ? Of course not, Maggie sold it all. Welfare system out of control ? It was Maggie and her cohorts who encouraged millions of people to claim Incapacity Benefit so they didn't appear on the unemployment statistics. The woman was pure evil.
Ding Dong the wicked witch...................
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Where's nfe?
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Where's nfe?
Still typing!
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LOL!
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I'm sick of hearing from the haters, they're on every forum and all over Facebook. She was voted into power by the public, and turned around a country that was at rock bottom. I see huge similarities in what she did and what the coalition is doing now - doing the right thing for the country is going to cause some pain, but overall it's the right thing to do.
Celebrating the death of someone is a very strange attitude to take, and I just don't understand it.
Well said - and ( perhaps not surprisingly ) it mirrors my own reaction to the news. As someone who came up working through the 70s and 80s ( working in every thing from 'Blue chip' companies , to temporary bouts of unskilled casual work ) I feel that what you said, echos my reflections on those times. As Afghan Dave implied, there are certain aspects of her psyche - and policies, that give rise to doubts in retrospect ; but all in all - I gained much from those times , and their influence and inspiration . For me , she was only acting as an external advocate , of those attributes and attitudes that I felt were important to apply internally - in order to adapt and evolve ; both at my places of work , and as a set of internal disciplines to structure and keep moving forward in my private life.
Yes, I feel that she got certain things askew, due to her somewhat unyielding persona, but at that time, U.K. Politics where not the rather grey and homogeneous creature they are now ; they were the stark difference between the world of the Unions and traditional Labour Party, vs the phase opposite of her Government at the time. Such sharp contrasts may not have been entirely constructive, but it certainly made the polling booth quite a tangy experience.
The main thing ( I feel ) is not to waste energy 'hating' anything as such ; but to learn from the whole experience - and move forward. I just feel that it is more important to reflect and evolve , than to entrench ourselves in re-cementing any memory of the past, however compelling that memory was.
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For me , she was only acting as an external advocate , of those attributes and attitudes that I felt were important to apply internally
Who was she acting as advocate for Jonathan, when her and Ian McGregor sat up all night (his words from his autobiography) planning the downfall of the miners union as a "punishment' (again his words) for destabilising the previous Tory government, 3 years before the strikes happened.
When Arthur Scargill told anyone that would listen that McGregors plan for the UK mining sector would lead to unnecessary closures and loss of incomes for thousands of families he was derided in the press.
That was a strategy by the two of them to "personalise" the dispute using Scargill as an aunt sally.
They had the Saatchi Bros and Eddie Shah (currently under investigation for child rape) put pressure on the media to always mentions Scargills name rather than the miners union.
They made sure that the strikes would happen.
The police were paid huge amounts of overtime to enforce very dodgy and hastily arranged local by-laws about crowd gathering.
A favourite police tactic was to photocopy payslips and throw them at miners who hadn't earned for months.
Police were flown down on privately chartered aircraft from all over the country, paid for by the rest of us, when we weren't allowed (by law) to drive to a legally arranged picket.
This usually ended up with a kicking at the least and probably jailed.
I'm not forgetting this stuff. Or forgiving it.
If we do then it will happen again. it will
Moving on without acknowledging past wrongdoing is not moving on, it is condoning it
Anger is an energy (according to John Lydon) , and I'm not wasting any energy in my feelings towards all those that were involved during Thatchers time in government.
My energy is being wasted trying to open this $%&#ing wine bottle
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My energy is being wasted trying to open this $%&#ing wine bottle
Get screw tops. They're so much easier.
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Was too young to remember any of it thus have no plans of jumping on the bandwagon of emotional bias that I see written by many on my facebook feed.
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I have extremely mixed feelings about her time as Prime Minister as it goes. The sense of relief at the time she was ousted was memorable. Its true she achieved a great deal of positive things, but at a cost, and appeared almost megalomaniacal at the end.
I see nothing to celebrate in the death of a frail old lady. Her death changes little, and I feel sorry for her family.
Agree that the media appears to be putting a deliberately positive slant on her time in power, and todays Conservative MPs are being rather opportunist. I also wonder if there would be plans for such a grand funeral if a Labour government was in power.
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Agree that the media appears to be putting a deliberately positive slant on her time in power
The phone-ins on Radio 5 Live (other radio stations are available...) may have helped redress the balance, there were some very strong feelings expressed, on both sides but perhaps more so from those on the anti-Thatcher side.
And there have been some newspapers taking a different view - the Morning Star and Socialist Worker, for starters! Even the Sun has a curiously disrespectful front page headline today.
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Hi gwEm,
I'm not celebrating the death of a frail old lady.
I'm celebrating the end of a tyrant
During her lifetime she caused misery to thousands of families.
Surely when Stalin popped his clogs there was a few vodkas downed, the odd bottle of chianti drained when Mussolini was doubletapped in the chest, a stein or two quaffed when Adolfs demise was announced?
No doubt her family are bereft.
Let's face it, Mark no longer has a former head of state to protect him from the consequences of his financing of the failed coup in oil rich Equatorial Guinea (and the grassing up of his mate and leaving him to rot in a Malabo jail, the little tinker!), or sort out his South African arrest and the Americans refusal of his visa to visit his kids.
I'm not at home at the moment but I can only imagine how the media managers are spinning around.
On the one hand they have to be seen to be siding with the people that pay for their services.
As far as I can make out from internet babble it's more anti than pro thatch.
And on the other they have to pander to the opinions of their owners.
I'll bet Rebecca Brooks is breathing a sigh of relief she no longer has to chair that video conference with her boss (another old pal of Maggies).
I'm not jumping on any bandwagon here guys.
I've set up with the band a long time back.
I've plugged the Goldtop into the half stack and we're rockin' the house.
Ding dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead....
cheer up guys it's a happy time!
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Hi gwEm,
I'm not celebrating the death of a frail old lady.
I'm celebrating the end of a tyrant
During her lifetime she caused misery to thousands of families.
Surely when Stalin popped his clogs there was a few vodkas downed, the odd bottle of chianti drained when Mussolini was doubletapped in the chest, a stein or two quaffed when Adolfs demise was announced?
Ding dong the witch is dead, the wicked witch is dead....
cheer up guys it's a happy time!
I'm gonna hate myself for saying this but...
That last post and its comparisons beggars belief, what an unmitigated, pathetic, stream of childish vitriol & bile.
This is a democracy.
And one which Labour have governed for 13 years through an economic boom, without any interference from that ex-PM you hate so much.
Which of her changes did they even try to roll back?
How much of the City of London deregulation did they correct?
How many PFIs did they dismiss?
How much manufacturing returned to our devestated industrial heartland?
How much social housing did Labour build?
F**k all.
Your celebrations would have been entirely understandable on the day she was ousted (BTW- I had little but dislike for her at the time.) but the things you've said, the reasons you've given for your joy. They just don't apply on her death.
You must be drunk from booze or blinded by your bitterness because if you're not...
You're just a nasty ****
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Wise words from Afghan Dave, well said. I think the same view applies to a lot of the folk who are spitting hatred out right now.
I'm appalled by the hostile reaction to her death by all levels of society.
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I would hope it would be locked now. Or perhaps everyone could do the decent thing and not respond below this post. 8)
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I would hope it would be locked now. Or perhaps everyone could do the decent thing and not respond below this post. 8)
Would have been best to just let this thread die on the operating table. Judging from the title, it's just troll bait and deliberately inflammatory.
Sun is shining in NYC, and it's going to be 77F today; all the hotties are sure to be out! Have a great day fellas!
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^ that's a cool avatar! Who is it?
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Its from an old AD&D module called The Secret of Bone Hill drawn by Bill Willingham - How sad am I to know that!
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Its from an old AD&D module called The Secret of Bone Hill drawn by Bill Willingham - How sad am I to know that!
Not sad -- awesome!! :)
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Oh dear.
You ladies did spend lot of time in the soft play area didn’t you?
Once again gents, if the subject is not to your liking then don’t click on the link. It’s only the internet. Joining in is your choice, as is not joining in.
But you know you want to.
Not troll bait.
Inflammatory. Yeah I can see how my, and apparently a lot of others opinion of the woman could be seen as such.
Any mods want to lock the thread please feel free.
Ah Dave, I’m glad you’re here.
You aren’t afraid to state a strongly held opinion and I would rather somebody comment on the woman and her legacy than just get their panties in a bunch over my thoughts and feelings. Calling me “nasty ****” notwithstanding.
I get that on a daily basis. And I’m not even in the Police! (<-See Ian, that’s what I would call not good forum etiquette)
Yes Dave I am very aware of it being a democracy.
I have been voting for 30 years.
I have also taken to the streets in protest, as is my right in our democracy.
Stood with banners at the introduction of foreign nuclear weapons being brought into my country, and tried to prevent Sheriffs Officers from throwing families into the street (literally) under the auspices of a law that even Philipino dictator Ferdinand Marcos found so unjust he wouldn’t apply it.
A democracy that Mrs Thatch tried her level best to skew in the favour of a number of wealthy party donors and fellow xenophobes at the expense of hard working, tax paying British citizens.
A democracy that others before us fought and died for.
A democracy that that bitch wanted to take away so that she and her favoured could profit.
It was a hard time in the UK then for a working class family.
If you want a feel for it then go watch "Brassed Off" or "The Full Monty".
Easily digestible Thatcherism for those of you too young or too sensitive to actually experience it.
Completely agree with you on all the other things you said (apart from the PFI thing which I don’t understand)
Labour did very little to try to mend the devastated industry in this country that Mrs T caused.
Banks were allowed to do what they wanted and council houses became a partnership with private businesses.
All policies that Maggie introduced and Tony did nothing to change.
I remember the day he was elected.
In his first address to the media he name-checked Thatcher and called her a great leader.
And I thought to myself “ Ah bollocks. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”.
Got to admit though, John Major worked hard to undo the divide she created within her own party and with other political parties. Even had a go at helping NGO's when they were something of use.
Hey, you should have seen my celebrations the day she was ousted.
77 degrees South on the Antarctic ice shelf after being stuck in the ice for 2 weeks not moving more than 1 metre in any direction.
What a party.
Even the tory boys joined in.
Helped bulldoze a ramp up an ice cliff the next day and officially named it Maggies ditch.
The mess that evil woman inflicted on a huge number of people does not become mitigated on her death.
It doesn’t bring back the 300 odd Argentinians that died on the sinking of the Belgrano under her direct orders.
Sitting in the tea shack reading the Gotcha headline that Monday morning was sickening.
Celebrating a death?
Tell you what, see when Tebbit carks it......you guys might not want to log in.
Hi P'n'H
Been 88F today on Sri Lanka's beautiful west coast. High humidity but a nice sea breeze.
Took Li'l Clydette and my friends daughter to the turtle sanctuary today and helped out.
As us nasty ****'s are wont to do on occasion
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This stuff has been all over the tinterweb. What I can't get my head round is how anyone can defend the woman based on the actions she took while in office which is a legacy we're still living with today.
Politicians are screwed-up anyway, two cheeks of the same arse - choice? what choice? You get the same thing no matter who you vote for (to a large extent). One big thing you cannot argue with is the improvement in schools under Labour. Schools were shockingly bad when I was a kid (80s), crumbling and under-funded. Mine was a failing school, the teachers were useless and couldn't give a shite which was reflected in the exam results. The improvement by the late 90s when I'd worked in some of them was notable with a much improved attitude from the teachers too.
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If you want harsh, listen to George Galloway's response... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek5zaZz5OWs&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek5zaZz5OWs&feature=youtu.be)
Mind, I can't say I disagree with a word either.
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So what picks has everyone been using recently?
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I'm currently swapping between Planet waves black ice 1.1mm and the hetfield black fang 1.14mm that came with the JH EMG set.
Both are very nice picks.
How about yourself?
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Dunlop Jazz IIIs. The red ones, of course, cos they're magic.
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Communities based on one source of income were always at risk of collapse. When those sources produce goods that are too expensive and/or of poor quality, even with hefty government subsidies, then the writing is on the wall. Especially if they're also run by managers and unions who refused to modernise production methods to increase efficiency.
Margaret Thatcher's government didn't kill those industries and communities, they were terminally ill before she came to power. The early seventies weren't exactly rosy, so it's not like we somehow lost Utopia! We gained massively as a country by having her as PM, and for that I thank her.
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What hefty government subsidies would they be Twin?
The only shipyard that received any kind of handout from Mrs T was Harland and Wolff in Belfast. And that had zero to do with their work and everything to do with keeping the loyalists happy.
The rest of British Shipbuilders was handed to its managers who in turn passed it on to asset strippers.
Swan Hunter on the Tyne, Camell Laird on the Mersey, Scott Lithgows on the Clyde. 80% of all ships in the seas were built by these yards.
They were at the cutting edge of the industry. Quite simply we built the best boats in the world.
The witch decided to cut the working week, and therefore the wages of workers at ports in Barry and Port Talbot.
Raw materials couldn’t get shipped to the steel works. This lead to the closing of the steel mills at Corby and Ravenscraig, amongst others, which meant the yards had to find other places to buy steel from. At a higher price.
This caused resentment between shipyard workers, steel workers and dockers all of whom felt betrayed by the other
This isn’t stuff I’ve googled Twin. I stood at these meetings.
Make no mistake. It was a deliberate act of Industrial sabotage. Solely to line the pockets of fat cat managers
In the meantime of course the Busan and Ulsan yards of Korea, PPL and Jurong in Singapore, who were getting subsidised, stepped right in there and took over.
Now they were of poor quality, but by $%&# were they cheap.
The industry wasn’t terminally ill then, nowhere near. And it isn’t now.
Those yards now are full of Drill ships, Floating Production ships, Drilling rigs, Production Platforms, Bulk carriers, LPG carriers, Supertankers, Super Containers, Mega Containers.
It’s also full of Jocks, Geordies, Smoggies and Scousers who work there and if you ask them they will tell you that they would prefer to build them at home.
But you do have to ask them before they hit the expat bars and all the girls come out to play.
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I don't know much about the shipyards, but I know the coal mines were heavily subsidised. I think the threat from cheaper labour abroad would have hit ship building eventually anyway? So the Thatcher government just speeded up the process I guess. Western development is always going to move away from a manufacturing base due to the rise in labour costs. It moved from the US/UK to Japan, who have now passed it on to Korea and China. Developing African nations are probably next?
I know we have very different opinions, but I think she was right in what she did - commercial industries such as car and ship building aren't the area of expertise for a govenment. Private companies should own and run them, paying taxes into the system the same as any other company.
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Dunlop 1.14mm. I used to use picks half this size until my wife bought me the wrong picks and I found out that I much preferred them.
I will gladly mourn the death of Maggie as long as someone shoots Iain Duncan Smith. In the kneecaps to start with. Put one in his head an hour later.
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I was Living in West Yorkshire at the start of her term and in London with my Yorkshire (Generational Labour voting) family through the rest.
No love was lost in my household for her policies but then the world and globalisation weren't at the forefront of our vested interests.
I now know better with hindsight.
Globally business changed, Life changed & the world changed. She was the British face of that change.
Was the change for the better?
In my estimation:
For productivity = Yes
For humanity = No
If you don't like her personality, fine.
Change is painful. Painful but inevitable.
Labour and the unions stuck their head in the sand and fought that change and would have always lost that fight.
As with Marxism and its socialist ilk, "The perfect is the enemy of the possible"
She did what was necessary, saw change coming and embraced it in a way that was of benefit to her and her kind.
"Her Kind" weren't coalminers or dockers but "Her kind" were the majority of the British who voted her in again and again.
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-the-thatcher-myths/13236 (http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-the-thatcher-myths/13236)
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http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-the-thatcher-myths/13236 (http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-the-thatcher-myths/13236)
Or...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/datablog/2013/apr/08/britain-changed-margaret-thatcher-charts#poverty (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/datablog/2013/apr/08/britain-changed-margaret-thatcher-charts#poverty)
I'm actually finding the aftermath of her death interesting - not because of all the fighting or aggression, but because of all the points of view that are coming to air. Yes, there are extreme views, but I'm also liking the social commentary that you didn't get back then.
I wonder how I would have felt in the 1980's if there was social media around like we have today, instead of an almost entirely right wing press? Although having said that, I don't think that the the 80's would have happened without Murdoch...
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I'm not even going to waste megabytes reading any of this.
Just row your own boats and get on with life.
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I'm not even going to waste megabytes reading any of this.
Just row your own boats and get on with life.
+1 :lol:
(Although I have actually read most of it... and again, I'm quite impressed, as usual, at how civil it all remained - nice one folks :D)
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I'm not even going to waste megabytes reading any of this.
Just row your own boats and get on with life.
+1 :lol:
(Although I have actually read most of it... and again, I'm quite impressed, as usual, at how civil it all remained - nice one folks :D)
Absolutely agree.
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I'm not even going to waste megabytes reading any of this.
Just row your own boats and get on with life.
+1 :lol:
(Although I have actually read most of it... and again, I'm quite impressed, as usual, at how civil it all remained - nice one folks :D)
Absolutely agree.
:)
And to echo that attitude ; Only today , I was remembering how I worked with a Gentleman between 1986 to 1991, whose politics were radically different from mine ; and who had himself worked as a Skilled Technician in a Mining area prior to work becoming scarce . As a result of course , the existing differences between us could have been very divisive. However ; after a civil introductory period when we agreed that debate over the matter was probably a waste of both our days - we did quickly realise that in most other ways , were both 'Like peas in a pod' when it came to how much we enjoyed putting in an energetic day's work - and how we would seek each other out if volunteers were needed in another department for an hour or two , to help them catch up e.t.c.
As a result , ( and for the remaining five years we worked together ) it became an understanding between us , that for both of us, there was a real sense of sanctity in work ; not just for the wage, but for the real joy we found in it. This happy memory also reminded me of a quotation , that I think was originally said by Gustav Mahler , of his stylistic opposite Richard Strauss :
" We were like two Miners digging from opposite ends of a mountain, and meeting in the middle ".
That is why I wanted to just do the B.K.P. Forum 'usual' of being honest about my own bias - and then stepping back : not only because of my ongoing respect for our host - and old colleagues on here , but also because of that period of time that I spent working closely with ( what some may have mutually called ) 'The enemy' - and he and I finding instead , a vast amount of common ground that we shared in essence .
Our cultural backgrounds, Political beliefs , internal symbolism - and a host of other factors , may have changed the way we expressed our beliefs in words, and therefore how we voted ; but at heart , we were in many ways, actually trying to achieve the same thing - both for ourselves , and the people around us.
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look at pictures of her and find ONE where she doesn't look sinister or evil.
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look at pictures of her and find ONE where she doesn't look sinister or evil.
?
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look at pictures of her and find ONE where she doesn't look sinister or evil.
?
photoshopped so doesn't count meh
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I don't feel well.