Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Tiny_Hats on April 17, 2013, 04:02:16 AM
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I'm looking for new pickups and have been browsing for a couple weeks trying to get the info I need but I am coming up a bit stumped. I have an 86 Les Paul Custom and right now it has EMG 85s. For the life of me, I can't tell if my guitar is dark or bright sounding. How can I figure this out so that I might be able to better understand what kind of pickup I should look into?
It seems like it is a bit bright or even thin sounding (I feel like the EMGs might be contributing to that) but how can I know with a bit more certainty?
Sorry for the vague question but I would really appreciate any advice. Thanks in advance!
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If you can't tell whether it's bright or dark, it might very well be 'balanced' :) I'm not that familiar with Les Paul's from that era, but supposedly they are with ebony boards? Maple or mahogany top?
Anyway, what tells a lot is what you don't like about the current pickups. EMG 85 is a pretty common pickup, and what it sounds like in your guitar is the key here. You said it sounds bright/thin, so your guitar is probably a bit on the brighter side of LPs. The ebony (?) board might contribute to that too and should be taken into account.
But the more important question: what kind of a tone would you like to get from the guitar? There are a number of pickups that could work very well there. Tone references, like songs work well on that matter 8)
-Zaned
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EMGs are generally said to mask a guitars natural tone. But I think you can hear strong characteristics of the guitar still, even with EMGs.
The 85s are thought of as being darker - at least I think of them so! I have one in the bridge of an Explorer. I would say you have a brighter Les Paul - which is definitely for the best, because its hard to make guitars brighter when they are naturally dark.. but its easy to darken them up.
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In fact it is very difficult to assess whether a guitar is bright or dark without having the opportunity to do A/B tests. To further complicate matters it's not necessarily present or absent high frequencies which make a guitar sound bright or dark - the midrange color also is a strong contributing factor insofar. If you have only this guitar it's best to go to a guitar store and do a side by side comparison with similar model guitars.
It may be even more fruitful to assess what you don't like about your current set up and what you want to achieve with new pickups. I don't have any experience with the EMG 85. I had an EMG 81 and found that to be very thin - which can work very well under high gain as many metal guitarists prove every day. Insofar I fully agree with Zaned.
Cheers Stephan
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An easy way to tell for me is to strum some chords. Listen to the sound, obviously, and think about what could make that sound sound better. Would more bass or bottom end make it better, would more highs help, do the chords not have a mid-range punch you'd like to have?
I know it's not the easiest thing to do with an unplugged electric, but I find that's the best way for me.
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Like anybody else, I would like to be able to do anything and everything with one pickup. I only have one electric so I am worried about being pigeon-holed into one sound. Between The Buried And Me are my favorite band (I know Paul uses Black Hawks). I wouldn't really call myself a metal player though. I play anything from that prog-metal sound to post-rock and even some more vintage sounding blues. Being more versatile is more important to me that more output. I am trying to move away from the thin sound of the EMGs even though they do have a nice bite. When I try for a full and warm cleans, I don't want to feel like my guitar is a sterile piece of plastic. I would even like to be able to split them for more of a single coil sound.
So I guess so summarize, I would like to be able to melt faces but versatility is more important to me than sheer power.
Is that too vague?
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the bridge alnico nailbomb is usually a safe bet for a meaty and powerful modern les paul tone
just make sure you set the height properly
for the rhythm position, the neck VHII sounds quite fat in a les paul, but still will make it sound like a classic les paul should
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I agree about the Nailbomb. I don't like it myself, but I think it would be ideal for your wishes.
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So I guess so summarize, I would like to be able to melt faces but versatility is more important to me than sheer power.
You could do that well with an Alnico Nailbomb in the bridge position but you will have to use the controls on your guitar to access the less than face melting tones. VHII neck would be a good match.
Cheers Stephan
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I agree about the Nailbomb. I don't like it myself, but I think it would be ideal for your wishes.
Why not?
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I agree about the Nailbomb. I don't like it myself, but I think it would be ideal for your wishes.
Why not?
The way it overdrives is too contemporary and aggressive for my taste.
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Would the Black Hawks clean up/be warm enough to be versatile(to a degree) as I described above? The more I listen to them, the more and more I like the way they sound for the aggressive stuff, but I would still like to be able to be jazzy or bluesy with the gain rolled back.
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Would the Black Hawks clean up/be warm enough to be versatile(to a degree) as I described above? The more I listen to them, the more and more I like the way they sound for the aggressive stuff, but I would still like to be able to be jazzy or bluesy with the gain rolled back.
That does sound like the Black Hawk to me.
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If you want something that cleans up better than the Alnico Nailbomb then consider the Rebel Yell.
No experience with the Black Hawks, unfortunately.
Cheers Stephan
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It isn't that a necessarily want something that cleans up better than X pickup. I just want to be able to have usable clean tones for the 40% of the time that I'm not playing metal.
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To the OP,
You're right in thinking the EMGs aren't going to give you a true report on your guitar's inherent tone and 'colour' for lack of a better word. But there's a good way to start - give us the woods involved:
Body - mahogany, correct?
Top - either mahogany or maple, which one?
'Board - Rosewood?
Neck - Maple or Mahogany?
Any mods to the nut?
Knowing these woods and details can determine the 'colour' of a Les Paul within some degree of accuracy.
Cheers,
V.
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Mahogany body with maple top. Neck is supposed to be maple with an ebony fretboard. I'll have to double check tomorrow about the neck material. Looks to be a synthetic nut.
If it is of any use, I've tried a SD 59' in the neck and SD Custom in the bridge. Both seemed very thin sounding. Playing the guitar unplugged, it seems pretty well balanced and, as someone mentioned, it might be that if I can't tell if it is darker or lighter, maybe it has a good balance already?
After some more thought, it seems the best description of my dream clean sound would be a telecaster neck, though I know that is not achievable with a les Paul. Is there a way to get somewhat close to that warmth while still having the power and clarity for metal?
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Maybe it's time to introduce you to one of my favourite BKP videos :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaqEET376-I)
I have one, in a bright LP. I have a feeling you'd be most at home with a 'vintage hot' pickup. Once you have a pickup that lets out a big-but-biting tone, you can do pretty much everything with it. That's for me.
But Nailbombs would most probably work very well for you too, check out the videos of Sam Coulson:
He's got a bunch of videos with an LP and Nailbombs, and he's a fantastic player.
-Zaned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkMxJiCjTU[/url)
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The Sam Coulson nail bomb videos were amazing. The bite in the bridge in those videos kind of hits the spot to me. The clip with the slide just sizzles. The neck positioned seemed like it got a little muddy though, but maybe I am just sleepy. The nail bomb in the bridge certainly works for the hotter blues that I play and I would be interested in finding some metal clips that highlighted the pickups as well as the Sam Coulson examples.
I was originally considering the black dog set but wasn't sure if it had the output for the heavier stuff. In the first video, they sound great but I was more drawn to the riff raff in the neck. There was another demo from the same guy where he describes the riff raff bridge as almost being "straty" and I can't help but agree. I am enjoying that throaty sound in the neck. Would the riff raff compliment the nail bomb in the bridge?
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It would appear that I was mistaken about the maple neck. It would seem that it is a mahogany neck to go with the mahogany body. Would this change anything as far as pickup choice?
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yes, an 86 should have a mahogany neck
the neck nailbomb is very bright, scooped, much more strat-like than the riff raff, but also a lot hotter
the bridge nailbomb will probably overpower a neck riff raff
the neck vhii should work well (it's similar to the bridge riff raff, but sounds thicker and more throaty in the neck)
nothing wrong in matching a hot bridge pickup with a lower output neck model, anyway
I've paired the mule with much hotter pickups, like the holy diver and the aftermath