Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: O731 on May 26, 2013, 04:29:23 PM
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Hey guys, I am looking into bare knuckles pickups and so far i'm lovin what i'm hearing and reading about these things
I am using a gibson Sg standard with a Seymour duncan Sh-4 in the bridge, and Sh-5 in the neck. The tone sounds great, but my perfectionist OCD self wants a little more from them.
The reason why I chose this pickup setup is because I wanted to go for this kind of tone: HIM - I Will Be The End Of You (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQd-l3t-Mlc#ws)
A metal tone with a hint of some vintage in it, and not overly distorted. The problem is that I find my tone to be a little too "soft and warm" so to speak. Where I want to add a little more of a modern sound and brighter sound.
So basically. I am in love with my current setup, SH-4 and SH-5's but I know bare knuckles being hand wound and having an overall higher quality would most likely be a step up from my SD's. So, which bare knuckles are closest in tone to the Sh-4 and Sh-5's? I also don't wanna sacrafice my clean tone's as well.
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Reading your description I was about to suggest the Alnico Nailbomb, then I listened to the clip and well, the ABomb would be too aggressive here IMHO. The RiffRaff would probably do a better job if you have the right hi-gain amp, or perhaps a Rebel Yell but I have not tried it myself so better wait for someone more knowledgeable to chime in...
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I was going to suggest the Riff Raff earlier. Ticks all the boxes with the SG, but not metal. A high gain amp might coax that tone out for you.
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Do you really have an SH-5 Duncan Custom in the neck position?
It's up to you of course, but a relatively high-output ceramic magnet pickup designed as a bridge model, it just seems an unusual choice.
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RiffRaffs, Rebell Yells, Cold Sweats, alll wil do. I would inspect the CS as well for metal, unless you want an alnico-magnet for the bridge.
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Thanks for the quick replies folks! I'm new here so Im like totally clueless on the science behind these things. lol
So Yeah, I use an SH-5 and 4 on my SG. I $%&#ing love the tone's, but the problem is that it has a little too much of an air and mud in the low mids. I wanted something a little more tighter on bottom and hotter on top.
I'm looking at the miracle man and holydivers, they seem to be essentially the same as the Seymour duncan JB's but better. Whatc Help me out guys :) I hear amazing things about these pickups and you seem to know alot about them.
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the holy diver sounds very dull in sg's
the rhythms get a bit undefined and mushy, quite different from how it sounds in les pauls and superstrats
not a good match at all, although it still sounds great for leads
sounds like a nailbomb or miracle man might suit your needs
they are very punchy and have a nice cutting top end
not sure about the neck, though
maybe a neck painkiller? (the only ceramic neck model)
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Hey guys, I am looking into bare knuckles pickups and so far i'm lovin what i'm hearing and reading about these things
I am using a gibson Sg standard with a Seymour duncan Sh-4 in the bridge, and Sh-5 in the neck. The tone sounds great, but my perfectionist OCD self wants a little more from them.
The reason why I chose this pickup setup is because I wanted to go for this kind of tone: HIM - I Will Be The End Of You (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQd-l3t-Mlc#ws)
A metal tone with a hint of some vintage in it, and not overly distorted. The problem is that I find my tone to be a little too "soft and warm" so to speak. Where I want to add a little more of a modern sound and brighter sound.
So basically. I am in love with my current setup, SH-4 and SH-5's but I know bare knuckles being hand wound and having an overall higher quality would most likely be a step up from my SD's. So, which bare knuckles are closest in tone to the Sh-4 and Sh-5's? I also don't wanna sacrafice my clean tone's as well.
For that tone and also based on your description I think the Alnico Nailbomb would be a fine choice for the bridge position.
No idea which pickup comes close to a SH-5 in the neck position. Probably the Painkiller neck as Eric said. I would have recommended the VHII neck as a good fit for the A-Bomb in the bridge. I had this combination in my PRS Single Cut until I switched to the Black Dogs, and it is a fine combination.
Cheers Stephan
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The ABomb bridge is indeed quite tight and has enough power and cut to not turn to mud in a SG, but the voicing is nothing like a JB, it's much more aggressive and "abrasive".
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The ABomb bridge is indeed quite tight and has enough power and cut to not turn to mud in a SG, but the voicing is nothing like a JB, it's much more aggressive and "abrasive".
Abrasive is exactly what im going for. My Duncan's already sound very abrasive enough but in a low mid kinda way, when I want more of that high end abrasiveness
I'm considering a Miracleman, Maybe even pairing it with a nailbomb. Will this make my SG too thrashy? I want to add more "modern" metal tone to my combo, but still maintain that Dark Vintage SG vibe.
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I don't hear any high midrange abrasiveness in the Miracle Man. Not that it does not have enough high midrange, but if you want abrasiveness, A-Bomb, C-Bomb, Aftermath and Painkiller would have more to offer in that department.
Cheers Stephan
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Abrasive is exactly what im going for. My Duncan's already sound very abrasive enough but in a low mid kinda way, when I want more of that high end abrasiveness
I'm considering a Miracleman, Maybe even pairing it with a nailbomb. Will this make my SG too thrashy? I want to add more "modern" metal tone to my combo, but still maintain that Dark Vintage SG vibe.
Well, the Abomb (bridge) might be a candidate then. It has a lot going on in the low-mids too but in a very different way from the JB, and depending on your volume and tone pots settings can go from a roaring 90s metal grind to a much more classic rock tone. As far as I'm concerned going from the JB (which I didn't find specially "abrasive" FWIW) to the ABomb has been a major improvement (80s SG Standard, rather on the dark side). But it really don't fit as a "better JB" because it has very few to do with a JB (except being a rather hot alnico humbucker). Can't say for the ABomb neck or the MM neck or bridge (never played them).
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Hmm my decision is narrowing down to the abomb in the bridge and the miracleman in the neck.
I'm confused about the abomb, I don't see a pickup on the website called Abomb. There's a nailbomb, is that the abomb?
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Hmm my decision is narrowing down to the abomb in the bridge and the miracleman in the neck.
I'm confused about the abomb, I don't see a pickup on the website called Abomb. There's a nailbomb, is that the abomb?
abomb is quite an unhelpful "in-crowd" name isn't it? we should all be careful of that.
anyway it means alnico nailbomb - in other words a nailbomb pickup with an alnico magnet. this was the original configuration of that pickup.
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Hmm by the looks of it the Abomb in the bridge and miracle man or aftermath in the neck seem promising. Any experts wanna chime in on this?
To further illustrate my issue. My current setups seems to lack that articulate tight sound that say...emg's have on the bottom. My palm muted chords seem to be a bit flubbery and wobbly, rather than tight and articulate. the highs seem a bit dull too.
Not sure whether this is an SG thing or my pickups
Also just a side note: Since you guys seem to know alot and are already kindly helping me out here :D to go off on a mini tangent. I hear that I should also get new electronics and pots and what not? Where exactly can I find these and which ones are good? For my SG standard and a les paul standard.
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anyway it means alnico nailbomb - in other words a nailbomb pickup with an alnico magnet. this was the original configuration of that pickup.
The other version being the Ceramic Nailbomb, or C-Bomb.
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Hmm by the looks of it the Abomb in the bridge and miracle man or aftermath in the neck seem promising. Any experts wanna chime in on this?
Just to be clear, are you considering the Miracle Man neck model, or a Miracle Man bridge model, in the neck position?
Bear in mind that the MM bridge has a ceramic magnet (like your SH-5), but the MM neck is alnico V.
I don't know whether either would be a good match for an A-Bomb bridge, I've never tried them.
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Hmm, perhaps a MM ceramic in the bridge and an Abomb in the neck then...
Making this decision is gonna be tougher than I thought :?
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The Holydiver is the most like a JB but doesn't seem to sit well in an SG. I'd go with the Miracle Man in the bridge as it's a lot like the Holydiver but with a bit more balls. For the neck, as you seem to like a ceramic magnet, you could look at a Painkiller as that's the only neck model that uses ceramic as far as I know and I believe the leads are excellent.
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Hmm, perhaps a MM ceramic in the bridge and an Abomb in the neck then...
Making this decision is gonna be tougher than I thought :?
Most descriptions of the ABomb (ok sorry - but now you know) are about the bridge - keep in mind that BKP sets are not "same pup for both positions", but really two distinct pups designed to work well together in their respective positions. The vintage range ones usually have rather close specs (same magnets and wire) but are still clearly designed to complement each other. In the vintage hot and contemporary ranges you can have wildly different - yet coherent - builds, like a ceramic bridge and an alnico neck, or an alnico V bridge and an alnico IV neck (a very interesting combo as far as I'm concerned).
What I said about the ABomb only applies to the bridge - I paired mine with a Mule neck, interesting combo but there's a huge gap wrt/ output levels and overall character. Unless you really know what you're doing - and why - I strongly suggest you first go with a matched set, except for known working mismatched combos.
Also, if in doubt by all means AskTim(tm) - the guy really knows it's stuff and is more often right than wrong (I even suspect he has some mind-reading supahpowah <g>), and well, if what he said doesn't work for you, there's this 15 days return policy...
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What I said about the ABomb only applies to the bridge - I paired mine with a Mule neck, interesting combo but there's a huge gap wrt/ output levels and overall character.
That's interesting, I think that's the first time I've seen that comment - I didn't think there'd be a massive output difference in practice, despite the very different specs.
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lol so I know this is a retarded question but is there like some sort of a proffesional way that I need to contact this Tim dude (like an inquiry form in the website or something that i'm missing ?) or can I just send him a PM
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There is a contact form on the website. The best alternative though is to call them.
Cheers Stephan
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What I said about the ABomb only applies to the bridge - I paired mine with a Mule neck, interesting combo but there's a huge gap wrt/ output levels and overall character.
That's interesting, I think that's the first time I've seen that comment - I didn't think there'd be a massive output difference in practice, despite the very different specs.
I think I already commented about it - and the "huge gap" applied to the overall diff - output _and_ voicing -, not to the output level per se. The output difference itself can be mostly leveled out with pickup height adjustments (you have to accept compromise wrt/ each pup's own sweet spot but it works fine), but you still have a very different voicing and feel. It was ok for me so far as I tried to have a quite versatile set and was mostly using the neck for clean / bluesy crunch so I had the bridge volume rolled down a bit, but now I have a few more guitars I'm thinking of going with something more balanced in the neck when I'll proceed to pickups transplants (ABomb / Mule-or-something-else going on the LP, RR set going on the SG, still don't know if I'll be able to keep the Hofner but if yes it will get either the LP's stock pups or some vintage BKPs).
Not that the ABomb / Mule is a bad combo, I enjoyed it a lot and still enjoy it so far, but I'd like to be able to use the neck pup more with the LP (which will be my higher-gain weapon of choice) so...
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The Holydiver is the most like a JB but doesn't seem to sit well in an SG. I'd go with the Miracle Man in the bridge as it's a lot like the Holydiver but with a bit more balls. For the neck, as you seem to like a ceramic magnet, you could look at a Painkiller as that's the only neck model that uses ceramic as far as I know and I believe the leads are excellent.
Hmm...Not that I have to use ceramic magnets. I just sort of got the idea that ceramic magnets would be more ideal for my SG, but I could be mistaken.
I read the painkiller and immediately the label of being a Djent pickup turned my off in all honesty. Can anyone chime in on the Abomb/Cbomb on the neck?
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Can anyone chime in on the Abomb/Cbomb on the neck?
Again we're getting into that territory of BKP making sets with completely different pickups specifically designed for neck and bridge positions.
There is no C-Bomb neck model, the C-Bomb is designed as a bridge pickup. If you order a Nailbomb set you'll get the same neck pickup (which happens to be AV) whether you order alnico or ceramic for the bridge.
Of course, you could put a bridge C-Bomb in the neck position, but I imagine it would be pretty overpowering.
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Can anyone chime in on the Abomb/Cbomb on the neck?
Again we're getting into that territory of BKP making sets with completely different pickups specifically designed for neck and bridge positions.
There is no C-Bomb neck model, the C-Bomb is designed as a bridge pickup. If you order a Nailbomb set you'll get the same neck pickup (which happens to be AV) whether you order alnico or ceramic for the bridge.
Of course, you could put a bridge C-Bomb in the neck position, but I imagine it would be pretty overpowering.
Hmm ok interesting I get you now...
How would you compare say... an Abomb/cbomb set vs Miracleman Set vs A miracle man in the bridge and (Insert x pickup) in the neck
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I listened to the clip.
The tone isn't that heavy, but it is bright-ish and defined.
You might indeed be able to get away with Riff-Raffs into a high gain amp, but I would opt for a Rebel Yell set in your SG.
If you get the Rebel Yell set and find them too bright, then you can exchange for an Alnico nailbomb set which is more dark.
I don't think there is any need for ceramic magnets for this job, and I also don't think theres any need to be clever with the neck pickup choice - just go for a BKP calibrated set. The guys put alot of effort into getting them balanced right.
edit:
I just think the Miracle Man is going to be too contemporary sounding in an SG for that tone. The Rebel Yell is based around the idea of a less hot nailbomb. The nailbomb has a certain "twisted" sound which I don't like, the rebel yell is brighter and sounds more sweet, but still modern and highish gain.
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I listened to the clip.
The tone isn't that heavy, but it is bright-ish and defined.
You might indeed be able to get away with Riff-Raffs into a high gain amp, but I would opt for a Rebel Yell set in your SG.
If you get the Rebel Yell set and find them too bright, then you can exchange for an Alnico nailbomb set which is more dark.
I don't think there is any need for ceramic magnets for this job, and I also don't think theres any need to be clever with the neck pickup choice - just go for a BKP calibrated set. The guys put alot of effort into getting them balanced right.
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I just think the Miracle Man is going to be too contemporary sounding in an SG for that tone. The Rebel Yell is based around the idea of a less hot nailbomb. The nailbomb has a certain "twisted" sound which I don't like, the rebel yell is brighter and sounds more sweet, but still modern and highish gain.
Very detailed an articulate reply my man, thanks alot.
The tone I have in my current SG with my SD's give me the tone in the video clip (it's the same setup as the guitarist :lol:) The reason why I chose it is because though its pretty heavy, it still has character and "definition" as you would put it. It's not all gained out and distorted. I like to be able to hear more to a power chord than just the bottom two strings :)
I hear rebel yell's dont sound good in SG's? What's this about?
The only problem is that i want a tad bit more Modern per say, without losing that character.
The nailbomb and the rebel yell seem like what I'm going for. I got a response from the tech support saying the nailbomb would be more of what I'm going for.
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Woops extra post
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theres an old clip of a rebel yell loaded SG into a JCM900 somewhere on the forum, sounded alright to me.
since you want a touch more modern than the song you linked us, maybe the nailbomb is indeed the way to go.
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Cool man, The thing is now that Im starting to understand the science behind these pickups. I'm starting to thing that I kinda like that Middy Alcino sound.
Gahh, would you say an alcino nailbomb would still be good, perhaps a Seymour duncan JB with a bit more oomp/modern?
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theres plenty of nailbomb clips about, they are quite distinctive sound pickups.
one you should hear for sure is an official BKP clip, its on the official BKP clip section of the forum and was made using a Flying V - similar construction to your SG:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=247.0
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perhaps a Seymour duncan JB with a bit more oomp/modern?
That's a Miracle Man to my mind.
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both nailbomb and miracle man sound nothing like a jb
but both should work pretty well for the sg and style
they're among the punchiest pickups on the bkp line
don't get too obsessive on details