Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Viowithcrailtap on June 04, 2013, 12:28:37 PM
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Hey Guys,
I'm quite new to Bare Knuckle so I have no clue on what to get or even if I should get Bare Knuckles but someone recommended them so I thought I'd research some.
I've just bought a Jackson RR5 and it has some horrible EMG HZ-H4 pick ups in and I'd like to replace them.
I have looked at a set of Jazz/ JB Duncans or a PAF/ Super Distortion set from Dimarzio.
I'm gonna be playing 80's metal and a bit of rock.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi and welcome!
First of about BKPs in general: To most people they are amazing PUs. They have a clarity and definition to them that is pretty much unrivaled. They are so clear you would have to go way outa your way to have them get muddy. They also are very lively and organic, even they ceramics sound more organic then a lot of other alnico PUs. Plus most BKP alnicos are tigher and less muddy then most other ceramics. Also they are all pretty darn versatile.
So yeah, I think they are pretty darn great.
For you playing 80s metal and a bit of rock there are immediatly 2 PUs that come to mind for me: The Holydiver and the Rebell Yell.
The HD is nice 80s metal, with a full, smooth, warm sound. Not dull, it can scream, itīs just musically rounded. Incredibly versatile too. The bridge works great with either the HD neck or the Emerald neck.
The RY is more bright and agressive, so another take on the 80s sound. Here you get less bottom end, but very much enough. It is very tight and has a great upper mid spike giving it great agression. Nicely cutting sound that just screams rock. Have never played a more rocking PU.
Which exactly depends on which take you wanne do more and also the woods in your axe, so if you could give some more info on that it would help a lot.
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I've got a Jackson RR5. It's a maple neck-thru with alder body.
I'm not totally sure what I'd like to do if I'm honest. I'd like to be able to get a good clean and a nice fat heavy distortion. Not a fizzy distorted sound (I heard a Dimarzio X2N and it was so bright and unrefined it wasn't pleasant to listen to).
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From the extensive searching I have been doing the last couple weeks, I'd say the Holy Diver matches your description perfectly. Although, I've read on a few threads that the Miracle man works wonders in maple neck thru guitars. It's apparently meant to be like a hotter Holy Diver with the low-mid thump.
I'm just about the fork out on a Holy Diver bridge :)
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Well, BKPs are not fizzy, but if you want fat and heavy distortion I would say Holydiver over RY. Cleans are also pretty nice, espcially if you pair it with the Emerald neck. Either way BKPs donīt really disappoint in that area either.
As Cam_H mentioned there is also the possibility of the Miracle Man. Often used for modern metal as it can chunk a lot, but also often overlooker for 80s metal. It has that low mids spike which gives it more chug, and it has more agressive highs, screams more. Due to it having me low mids and highs but neither really more or less mids it can at first glance be percieved as a tad scooped, at least realativly speaking, but that is just an illusion.
However with the MM you get less of an organic feel and lose some versatility.
Seing that as it is and that the HD should work beautifully with those woods I can make that my single recommendation now. Not 100% on which neck, but either HD neck or Emerald should serve you greatly.
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Right, that was a fairly easy task of which bridge pick up to seek out.
In regards to the neck. I really like the Duncan Jazz Clean. Will an Emerald fit this bill?
And without be biased, are BKP really that good? I've heard them mentioned a few times but they do tend to be over shadowed by Duncan or EMG fanboys.
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I've got a Jackson RR5. It's a maple neck-thru with alder body.
I'm not totally sure what I'd like to do if I'm honest. I'd like to be able to get a good clean and a nice fat heavy distortion. Not a fizzy distorted sound (I heard a Dimarzio X2N and it was so bright and unrefined it wasn't pleasant to listen to).
I had X2Ns in my maple neck-thru / maple body Vox Custom 24 (stock pups). The best service they did me was to finally cr@p out (short in the bridge pickup) else I'd probably never learned about BKPs :lol:
Maple-neck / alder body will probably make for a rather bright guitar with tight (but deep) lows, a somehow naturally compressed tone (neck-thru tend to do this AFAICT), and a very rich harmonic content. I've not played neither the HD nor RY but from what I've heard of them and what I've learned about guitars and pickups since I swapped my X2Ns for a Crawler set, I think the HD (bridge at least) would serve you well.
Right, that was a fairly easy task of which bridge pick up to seek out.
Seems like there's a clear winner, indeed ;)
In regards to the neck. I really like the Duncan Jazz Clean. Will an Emerald fit this bill?
I had a SD Jazz in my SG when I got it. It's been replaced with a Mule neck and it was definitly a major improvement. The Emerald neck is a hotter and possibly a bit tighter pickup - which is IMHO a good thing for your guitar and style - but with still that lovely singing sweetness from the AIV magnet. FWIW I've been doing some research recently for a neck pup that would be a good match for a ABomb bridge in a LP while still retaining these lush, gorgeous cleans and the Emerald neck is very probably what I'll go for.
And without be biased, are BKP really that good? I've heard them mentioned a few times but they do tend to be over shadowed by Duncan or EMG fanboys.
Some love them, some hate them. The point is that they are just incredible when it comes to clarity, definition, note separation and dynamic, and it's both a curse and a blessing. The curse is that you finally hear your guitar and your playing, and, well, sometimes it hurts - specially if you used to hide behind a big wall of mud, like I did when I had the X2Ns -, and I can understand why some people just can't stand it. Now my first experience with BKPs hopefully was with the Crawlers, that are AFAICT about the more compressed and less demanding of the range - and it was already one of the "aha" moments. The ABomb was even more of a shock to me - replacing a JB in a SG - because despite being hotter than the Crawler, no matter how much gain I dialed in it was still showing _any_ mistake or sloppiness in my playing. Took me some time to get used to it and I still hate it sometimes because it has no mercy. Now for the "blessing" part : when you manage to play your parts right, everyone in the audience will hear each and any intention and nuance even thru a quite heavy mix, the better you play the better you sound and the better you sound the better you play.
This being said there's no silver bullet, and while I find BKPs to be somehow magical there are other good (or "good enough") pickups around, and a lot of great guitar players (I don't pretend to be even remotely "good" - just Joe Average Amateur Guitar Guy) get way better tones from gear I'd label as "barely good enough". At least I'm happy with my tone (and so are my band mates) and I know my gear will be faithfull to my playing, for better and for worse.
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This being said there's no silver bullet, and while I find BKPs to be somehow magical there are other good (or "good enough") pickups around, and a lot of great guitar players (I don't pretend to be even remotely "good" - just Joe Average Amateur Guitar Guy) get way better tones from gear I'd label as "barely good enough". At least I'm happy with my tone (and so are my band mates) and I know my gear will be faithfull to my playing, for better and for worse.
Indeed. You can have great tone without BKPs, no doubt. Sometimes you may also want something BKPs will not deliver. Some like the what I call fizzy Dimarzio and Duncan high end. Also there is something about the EMG tone some people just donīt wanne miss.
Point is if it sounds good to you it is good.
But to me BKPs are another level. I just love them for the clarity and definition, although it really can be painful, their livelyness, their mojo. They let so much shine through, from your playing, to the guitar and everything.
BKPs allow you to take your playing to new heights, but they can also let you crash.
I just feel a great back and forth between me and the PUs. I used to have guitars, pieces of wood, then I got BKPs and now I have Kezia, Rose, Dawn, etc.
They give you a voice and if you can make em sing they can be magical.
With all my love for BKP I do still have a guitar with Dimarzios, my first guitar, a 7 string Dean Vendetta with Liquifire and Crunchlab. While I do miss some of the BKP qualitys, they just fit that guitar and what I do with it and they are not coming out, cause they are just what I want there.
I do recon most people who give BKPs an honest shot will not turn back. They just are so well crafted.
And I do think this forum also speaks to it. God I love this place.
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To my mind, BKP ARE that good. I use nothing else. I've tried a Seymour Duncan JB and while it was OK, it was nothing like as good as any BKP I've ever used. I preferred the Super Distortion and DiMarzio PAF but again, they couldn't touch BKP. Hot Seymour Duncans and DiMarzios tend to be very compressed whereas BKP tend to be a bit more open. What you always get with any BKP is incredible articulation and note separation, with a richness of tone that others can't match.
I own a maple neck-thru with alder wings in the form of a Jackson Soloist and in it I've tried a Cold Sweat, Alnico Nailbomb, Holydiver and Miracle Man. I liked the Nailbomb the least (way to aggressive in that guitar), the Cold Sweat was great and the Holydiver and Miracle Man are awesome. For what you want, either the Holydiver or Miracle Man will work very well indeed. The Miracle Man is a bit tighter and more aggressive with pinched harmonics all over the place. The slightly scooped nature of the pickup lends itself perfectly to maple neck-thrus but the Holydiver is quite similar but with a slightly sweeter lead tone, better cleans and more versatility.
For the neck, you'll love either the Cold Sweat or Emerald. They have a lot in common but I find the Emerald a bit sweeter for leads and has much better cleans.
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I would vote for Bridge Miracle man and neck cold sweat (or neck Miracle man if you prefer a Wild solo tone)
This is for early to late 80s hard rock/metal/thrash.
Treat it effectively like an all maple guitar - the side wings won't impact that much on the sound.
The Miracle Man may seem surprising , but really is the business (especially for George Lynch type tones....will do for Randy Rhoads/Zakk W too and spot on for early thrash)
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I would vote for Bridge Miracle man and neck cold sweat (or neck Miracle man if you prefer a Wild solo tone)
This is for early to late 80s hard rock/metal/thrash.
Treat it effectively like an all maple guitar - the side wings won't impact that much on the sound.
The Miracle Man may seem surprising , but really is the business (especially for George Lynch type tones....will do for Randy Rhoads/Zakk W too and spot on for early thrash)
Yes, that is why I mentioned them. I dunno much about that aplication for them as they are mostly used for more modern tones, but I know many people rave about their 80s capability.
Plus our dear Feline knows his tone, so that underlines that they are worth a look too.
Thats another problem with BKPs, there are too many that are great. For any given style you just got too much choice. It can really be suffocating xD So many pickups can do the same style but in a different way, different flavours. Really a pain to decide sometimes. There are not many wrongs, but so many rights!^^
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Ok, so I'm looking at either the Emerald/ Holy Diver or Cold Sweat/ Miracle Man?
You guys have been really helpful. I've just watched a video of a guy play a les Paul with a riff raff in the bridge and that sounded great. I can't remember the name of the bridge pick up (I keep thinking bad dog but I could just be tired).
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They're all great pickups and that's the problem with BKP but you have no need to look any further as there is no doubt in my mind that for what you're after, you already have the best two possible combinations: Holydiver/Emerald or Miracle Man/Cold Sweat
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I've just watched some videos on the MM and Cold Sweat and holy cr@p they're a good sounding set of pick ups. I see what you guys mean about them being unforgiving as they pick up every note.
Easily the best sounding pick ups I've heard.
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They're all great pickups and that's the problem with BKP but you have no need to look any further as there is no doubt in my mind that for what you're after, you already have the best two possible combinations: Holydiver/Emerald or Miracle Man/Cold Sweat
Indeed. Both will do that 80s style very nicely, now you just gotta deciede how you want it to be done.
I've just watched some videos on the MM and Cold Sweat and holy cr@p they're a good sounding set of pick ups. I see what you guys mean about them being unforgiving as they pick up every note.
Easily the best sounding pick ups I've heard.
Yeah, they will initially make your playing sound worse because of that. Good thing is you wonīt care as you will be in the honeymoon period and just be too amazed with the sound. But as that goes away you are already playing better and after a little while with them they will have made you a better player, that I am sure of.
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Holydiver all the way! I own the pickup in a very bright Strat and it just gives me a smile on my face everytime I play it. I has perfect depth and body to make the guitar sound full enough (as said it's a very bright axe) yet having a nice and screaming lead tone that stays very musical and expressive. Tight enough for everything that goes even further than 80's metal, clear as a tear and all in all the best pickup I ever played. You'll be very satisfied. And every time I read Slarts description of the Miracle Man being a bit more aggressive and fuller than the Holydiver yet retaining the core sound of it, my mouth waters. I think the MM is gonna be the next pickup I'll be getting, thanks to you Slart :P
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Yeah, they will initially make your playing sound worse because of that. Good thing is you wonīt care as you will be in the honeymoon period and just be too amazed with the sound. But as that goes away you are already playing better and after a little while with them they will have made you a better player, that I am sure of.
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That's good though. I'd rather not have some sound to hide behind or so to speak. It's the same reason I'm not a massive fan of reverb either. It'll probably be annoying to start with but like you said, I'll still be on a high from just having them and I will most likely spend a lot of time just hitting power chords :P
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They're all great pickups and that's the problem with BKP but you have no need to look any further as there is no doubt in my mind that for what you're after, you already have the best two possible combinations: Holydiver/Emerald or Miracle Man/Cold Sweat
Indeed. Both will do that 80s style very nicely, now you just gotta deciede how you want it to be done.
I've just watched some videos on the MM and Cold Sweat and holy cr@p they're a good sounding set of pick ups. I see what you guys mean about them being unforgiving as they pick up every note.
Easily the best sounding pick ups I've heard.
Yeah, they will initially make your playing sound worse because of that. Good thing is you wonīt care as you will be in the honeymoon period and just be too amazed with the sound. But as that goes away you are already playing better and after a little while with them they will have made you a better player, that I am sure of.
CS bridge is somewhat more hollow /open - more of 1980-1987
MM bridge is fuller sounding and more saturated - more 1986-1992
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And every time I read Slarts description of the Miracle Man being a bit more aggressive and fuller than the Holydiver yet retaining the core sound of it, my mouth waters. I think the MM is gonna be the next pickup I'll be getting, thanks to you Slart :P
Clearly I'm making your life expensive 8)
Overall, the Holydiver remains my favourite pickup because I like things thick, warm, fluid and smooth and the Holydiver is just perfect in every way but sometimes I just fancy a bit more aggression and bite in the tone and that's where the Miracle Man comes in.
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Overall, the Holydiver remains my favourite pickup because I like things thick, warm, fluid and smooth and the Holydiver is just perfect in every way but sometimes I just fancy a bit more aggression and bite in the tone and that's where the Miracle Man comes in.
This is where I'm a bit stuck. It's a real toss up between the Miracle Man and Holy Diver. If I'm honest I've heard the Miracle Man in a few different guitars and the players were quite good so that helped where as the Holy Diver hasn't really been done justice from the videos I've seen. It would be nice to see some pick up reviews that weren't in a Les Paul.
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My Holydiver review:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=24376.msg321332#msg321332
My Miracle Man review:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28004.msg366208#msg366208
Hope it helps but if you want to know more, just ask :D
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If I'm honest I've heard the Miracle Man in a few different guitars and the players were quite good so that helped where as the Holy Diver hasn't really been done justice from the videos I've seen. It would be nice to see some pick up reviews that weren't in a Les Paul.
While I like watching gear videos I would not rely to heavily on them due to all the variables involved. And a demo by a too good player can be as misleading as one by a sloppy player.
Even if it is a difficult decision you are very unlikely to go wrong with either of the suggested combinations.
Cheers Stephan
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Yeah I don't think I'll be disappointed by either set I choose to go for. I just can't get over how much better they are. I'll admit I was a Duncan fan as a few of my favourite guitarists use them but I'm in the BKP corner now.
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One last thing. I've just been shopping around for pick ups and I've noticed that you can buy the pick ups with or without a cover (or at least that's what it looks like).
I was wondering, which would I need? I've only had pick ups where you can see two rows of pins. The covered ones look cool but are they the wrong ones to buy?
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It's up to you. I've tried both and while I think the covered ones look great, I prefer open poled pickups. The covered ones tend to produce a slightly softer and rounded tone than the open ones and having tried a covered and open Holydiver in the same guitar, I felt that the bass was crisper and cut through better when the pickup was open. You should be able to fine a You Tube video of the difference by BKP.
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Here is the very Youtube vid you refer to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D756154qUdo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D756154qUdo)
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I just watched that video and 2 demos of the Miracle Man and that is definitely what I'm going for. Still not sure about he neck but the cold sweat is the front runner on that.
On the cover vs open pick up, I can see what you mean about the covered being softer. The uncovered sounds more raw so definitely would go with 80's metal through a JCM800 (which I'm saving for). The zebra and reverse zebra would look great in my RR5.
I also can't believe how chilled out the guy from BKP was. Normally people are like "this in an EMG 85 and if you don't buy one then you're not cool" but the BKP guy is just like "we give people the cover or open option on all our pick ups so you can have either sound or just the look. No hype, just facts.
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The CS neck certainly is great, but from what I hear the MM neck is also pretty nice. I would look into those aswell. Donīt know if they work for what you want but I would give them a look to be fair.
Cover vs no cover is a thing where, yes, there is a difference, but it is small enough for me to say I go with what looks better, cause I can dial in the difference elsewhere rather easily.
If I was just going by sound I think I would most of the time go open bridge covered neck, cause that is the way I roll.
I might like my neck PUs to be bright in the sense that I donīt want lots of low mids and lows, but I do find that slightly rounded top end to be very nice for my lead playing to smooth it out a tad.
Oh and yeah, everyone at BKP is super nice, helpful and really interrested in getting you what you want if that is in their power.
Was always so happy to recieve good recommendations and slight custom stuff like getting a regular P90 in HSP90 format.
The forum is just amazing too, so open minded, friendly, help- and respectful. There is a reason I am slowly coming up on 1k posts and still loving it.
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Covered Neck/ Uncovered Bridge makes sense. I'm a bit undecided cause the covers look really good. A clearer neck would have its advantages. You've thrown a bit of a spanner in the works now.
I think I'm gonna go with a Miracle Man in the Bridge but the neck I'm still unsure of.
It's not like I'll end up with a bad pick up.