Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: GuitarIv on June 05, 2013, 11:32:23 PM
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Hey guys,
opening this thread with this unbelievably creative title to get some opinions from fellow forum members about... well the different kinds of chugging sounds BKPs can provide. So far I own the Holydiver and the Painkiller and love both for their respective characteristics. Both being very middy (don't like my stuff scooped) I realize that the heavy palm muting might be different to the one pickups like say the Miracle Man or the Warpig can provide. The PK is tight and grinding and thus great for more modern metal sounds, the HD has a fatter and sweeter character and more low mids which naturally give it a fuller character on palm mutes. Still I feel like the mids kinda work against that deep and full sound that you can feel in your guts. I know I contradict myself a bit here since I like mids and my pickups tight but look for something that's more scooped and with a bigger low end, but then again I'd have an excuse to get my next BKP, so fire away! :P
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When I think of palm muted chugging I always thing of the Metallica E5 Downpicking type stuff. The alnico Black Hawk is a beast for this but as ive said several times before for me the black hawk is just a full on metal pickup and i cant see how it would be 'good' for much else.... just my opinion of course.
Nailbomb is far more versatile but does thrash rythm really well amongst other things and on balance i prefer it for say Megadeth, Testament, Slayer, Metallica riffs etc.
From the clips ive heard from the ceramic warpig sounds brutal as hell whilst still sounding tight.....although what i heard was hi gain. Id love to give that a go amongst others many others.
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miracle sounds pretty deep
the nailbomb has a somewhat similar character (cutting top, big bass and low mids), but it's a little less "hi fi" and more aggressive
not as middy as the chart shows
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Jimmy: I found the Blackhawk to sound way too spikey from the sound examples I heard so far in videos and whilst I realize that you can't judge a pickup unless you played it yourself, the same applies a bit to the Nailbomb, I guess aggressive highs aren't something I am too fond of, at least not with my current setup (Peavey Valveking 100 with some simple mods and an engaged Tubescreamer) which already has a great deal of highs. I guess I lack some bottom end here and I won't be getting a new amp and cab soon so I kinda see from your and Erics suggestions that either the Miracle Man or the C-Pig might work better. Just how much highs does the Miracle Man have compared to say the NB or the BH? Can they be over the top or are they more polite than those of the former two? Slart always praises the MM saying it sounds like a more aggressive Holydiver which seems to be great if it's really the case (we know it depends on guitar, setup and so on...), so I've been thinking about getting one for quite a while now. Regarding the Warpigs I played an Alnico Set in a mates axe (ESP LTD with a Mahogany Body, Maple Cap, Maple Neck, Rosewood Fretboard) and liked them very much, they were fat whilst balanced. Would like to know how much the Ceramic Bridge version would alter that...
Cheers!
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Well, you know what I'm going to say mate - Miracle Man! 8)
It's wierd with the Miracle Man because like you, I love my mids, which is why I like the Holydiver so much so I was extremely dubious when people kept suggesting the Miracle Man for my guitar. I think the whole Zakk Wylde and EMG association put me off too. I think my set up is also helped by the fact that I have my Miracle Man in a maple neck-thru, which tends to be a little middy anyway and I always accentuate the mids on my amp, even with the Holydiver. Nevertheless, in terms of mids, the Miracle Man is NOT a Holydiver as it is certainly more scooped than that with most of the mids being very low mids giving it that really big bottom end for those chugga chugga tones you mention. It's also noticeably more aggressive and tighter than the Holydiver without being overpowering in the way I found the A-Bomb. All of that makes it sound nothing like a Holydiver at all but I'm not quite as insane as you might think because there is a very definite crossover. Because of the name, I assumed that the Miracle Man would be incredibly tight, quite surgical and perhaps a bit sterile. It isn't and that's where my association with the Holydiver comes in. Think of some of the things you probably like about the Holydiver: warm? smooth? fluid? organic? thick? All of these things apply to the Miracle Man too. Sure, the cleans are nowhere near as good as the Holydiver and the leads are nothing like as sweet but it's a hot ceramic pickup so there's a limit to what you can expect. Having said that, it is surprisingly warm, smooth and organic sounding; much more so than I was expecting. it will do 80s Metal really well because of that crossover with the Holydiver, it's just that it has a more modern cutting edge to it. Maybe think of the Holydiver as 1980-1987 and the Miracle Man as 1986-1992 (ish). When I spoke to BKP I said I wanted a Holydiver that was a bit tighter, a bit more aggressive, a slightly bigger bottom end and slightly more screaming highs; really, something of a Holydiver with attitude. They immediately said that I'd described a Miracle Man perfectly and I can't disagree.
With the A-Bomb, it was more balanced so I didn't notice the big bottom end as much but I DID notice much more tightness and much more aggression. It was really edgy, hairy and aggressive in comparison to the Miracle Man. Far more 90s Thrash than anything else but if you want supper aggressive chugga chugga and it's a mahogany guitar, it could be for you. I just found it too much as I like my tone smoother than that and the novelty of the aggressive tightness soon wore off and I realised there were very few times I could actually use it. I use the Miracle Man for the heavier end of our set but if needs must, I could use it for the whole gig, as i have done with the Holydiver before now.
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well, I'm too sleepy to read slart's last post properly right now (been awake for over 20 hours), but I gotta say I never found the HD and MM to be similar, after swapping them around a few times in the same guitars
they just happen to do the same stuff amazingly well, but in their own ways
the MM sounds very unique to my ears
they both have great lead tones, huge sounding pinch harmonics, and despite of most people opinion, the miracle man clean tones are absolutely amazing in some guitars, although I may have preferred the diver in others
the miracle man has big low mids, but a very focused tone, quite different from the buttery response of the holy diver
if the diver is great for something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxicB0bll3I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxicB0bll3I)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2a064V0xGQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2a064V0xGQ)
the miracle man does it more like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnzfE8war2w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnzfE8war2w)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUWDguE3lLg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUWDguE3lLg)
not an accurate comparison, as the MM is definitely much bolder sounding than sykes dirty fingers, and more treble heavy as well
the tremonti pickup is a bit middier and more aggressive (more like the c-bomb), but quite similar to a certain point (my bandmate replaced a tremonti with a CS and then a MM in a PRS)
I'm ignoring the rig differences, of course, but you get the idea
the cold sweat also has a lot of "chug", by the way
not much low mids, but has a bigger bass than the diver
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Different kinds of "chugga chugga" - easily my favourite ever thread title. Sadly, I neither play nor listen to metal so I will have limited opportunity to drop this phrase into a conversation.
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TBH, I think that both Eric and myself are right here.
"they just happen to do the same stuff amazingly well, but in their own ways"
Yes, very true. They are distinct pickups, each with their own character but they do the same stuff very well because there is that crossover I mentioned.
"the miracle man has big low mids, but a very focused tone, quite different from the buttery response of the holy diver"
Again, very true. The Miracle Man has more low mids than the Holydiver which is what gives it that huge bottom end that the Holydiver can't match as although it's a thick sounding pickup and has more mids, those mids aren't concentrated as far down. The Holydiver is also more buttery and less focussed than the Miracle Man, I assume because of the ceramic magnet at least in part.
However, that doesn't change the fact that both pickups are thick, smooth, fluid and warm and these are the core characteristics that I associate with the Holydiver and found, albeit with a different flavour, in the Miracle Man. Furthermore, I can't be the only one who sees the connection because when I described what I wanted to BKP there was no hesitation at all in them saying that what I was describing was certainly the Miracle Man. I'm not saying that the Miracle Man is essentially the same as a Holydiver as there'd be no point in having the two pickups but I am saying that if you like the Holydiver but want more aggression and tightness for more chugga chugga, the chances are you'll find a lot to like in the Miracle Man. The other two contemporary pickups I've tried are the A-Bomb and Cold Sweat and see no comparison with the Holydiver there at all. They'll both do chugga chugga but they are wildly different pickups to the Holydiver.
On a side note, that John Sykes clip make me think more of the Cold Sweat than a Miracle Man.
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Thanks fellas! I'm pretty much sold on the Miracle Man. Now if I only won the lottery I wouldn't have the constant problem on deciding which one to get next xD
Richard: there's so many ridiculous Onomatopoeia's (god I hate that word, had to google it to write it down the right way :P) people use to describe sounds, it can be pretty hilarious. Stuff like "ooomph" and "zing" and so on - chugga chugga seems to be a more commonly used one though hahahaha
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still better than "djent"
10 years before "djent", my friends who introduced me to Meshuggah on late 90's called it "CANGON" and stated that they tuned in DROP JU
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Yeah, "Djent" is one of the most annoying trends to have appeared in the last years, together with some pretty annoying fanboys. Funny thing is most of them don't even know that this song is the one that started it all, before it was cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVP48x4U7QE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVP48x4U7QE)
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that was my favorite meshuggah album :D
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I'm rather the ObZen fan, mostly due to Bleed and Combustion, those got me into Meshuggah. And I forkin love the New Millenium Cyanide Christ Video with Jens screaming into the red pen hahaha :D
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To my thinking any excuse is good enough if it means listening to John Sykes play that solo, but I always think of chugga chugga as a metal rhythm guitar, rather than lead playing.
Something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLiBOZwVizw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLiBOZwVizw)
As Scott Ian would say, a 'retarded caveman riff'
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When I think retarded caveman riffs" this is what comes to mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28FVw4SRNMU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28FVw4SRNMU)
When I think chug I think of Abominable Putridity or any slam death bands, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CweruxPv1Vc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CweruxPv1Vc)
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The guitar sound on the Jungle Rot reminds of Paganizer. I don't mind it.
The other one didn't appeal to me at all. I must be a retarded caveman! On the other hand the Jungle Rot was not as interesting to me as old school stuff like Autopsy, even though it was clearly recorded on better gear.
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Eh Autopsy before Macabre is some of the most overrated DM out there, horrible production, horrible vocals, and boring guitar work. Just my opinion though. Jungle Rot is far better than Autopsy in every way, I don't see the comparison though so bringing that up is pointless.
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Depends on what you like I guess.
I'm equal parts punk and metalhead so I don't mind some simple and/or noisy stuff. Autopsy are from back in the time when that style was still fresh and don't seem so worried about all of that. Repulsion was much the same. Technically kind of awful but like no-one before them. I also remember the '80s very well and I guess that kind of stuff is where I feel at home.
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Repulsion were awesome and with Carcass, Terrorizer, Napalm Death, etc were all doing something never heard before. Autopsy were just slower death metal, nothing revolutionary, Obituary were doing the same thing but 100% better before them.
I listen to practically every style whether it is rock, metal, jazz, punk or at least guitar related these days.
People claim to be open minded on the internet all the time, most have no idea what the $%&# they're talking about.
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I think I finally found my sound sample. Listen to the riff that starts at 0:52 here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh1zdAL_ikQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh1zdAL_ikQ)
That fat and huge "chugga chugga" sound, being full but still tight is what I'm looking for :)
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Josh was using a holy diver in his main les paul custom lite last year
but that album was probably mostly a LTD Michael Wilton superstrat with the stock duncan JB as far as I remember
he had painkillers in the past, but I guess he didn't enjoy them much
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I know he was using Holydivers in the Les Paul All Axcess Custom he played, however if you watch the studio videos it's indeed the LTD the albums recorded with. I thought he was using EMGs but seems like the JB is the more obvious answer as in the studio video the LTD isn't equipped with them. I also read his post about having the PK 15 minutes in a guitar, not liking it and selling it. Weird, I quite like mine. Funny thing is I know Monolith was done using Holydivers and a Marshall JCM 800, however I'm again having a Hate/Love affair going on with my HD. Before I redid the wiring on my Strat the sound was horrible, but even now that I fixed it the HD seems to be too thin to my ears and that's not what people say about it usually. Granted, the guitar is veeeery bright but the sound just lacks soo much bottom end I don't have any "chugg" at all. It worked quite fine in my Jackson (currently has the Painkiller in the bridge) and that guitar is made out of Mahogany and has such a depth and fullness, the Painkiller sounds perfectly balanced in it, it's quite a darker instrument. I could have put a Rebel Yell into the Jackson and a Warpig into the Strat and the Instruments would still be balanced EQ wise. Don't know what to do. I'll try to put the HD into my mates Jackson and see how it behaves. I doubt it's the pickups fault. Might also test another amp to see what effect I get...
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I guess then the biggest factor how pickups will sound is in the fact in the wood selection.My Hellraiser 7-FR is made of mahogany body/top quilted maple with maple neck with rosewood fretboard.So I think tone if overall balanced then dark or middy,or whatever you like to call it.
And beside pickups as we all know,how you adjust your amp,preamp,pedals will make sound drastically different.
I only heard just good about Bare Knuckles,do not know how to describe it exactly but to me all they got a more classic sound mix with modern which is good by the way.So for what I have heard know it will be a 2 months of actively listening clips and comment of folks they can not chugga that much at all.But I came from old-school music(my father was a hard rock drummer for almost all his life),I listened a lot hard rock 70thies,later 80thies heavy metal and neoclassical metal,in 90thies especially Bruce Dickinson more modern heavy sound.Then in 00th I start listening power/progressive music...
Sorry for talking about myself too much..I just wanna say that if you like me and you want cover different varieties of sounds I never heard better pickups than Bare Knuckles to be honest...They can not sound too much modern,but they are very very versatile...So me personally I would sacrifice a little tightness in order for versatility.
I just miss very much all those ("older")sounds,I just can`t stand to sound always modern (read the same)...I will buy it for sure but for know not sure which. :)
Too many good pickups to choose. 8)
If you want exclusively mind blasting chugga tones,use active pickups for sure.No one passive can`t match with them in that sound.
Cheers bro! \m/