Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: GuitarIv on June 27, 2013, 04:29:16 PM
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Cheers guys, I'll just copy and paste what I have written in another thread:
"As far as the Amp and Cab goes, that's certainly true. Not so long ago my Valveking got back from the technician after a valve blew up, he swapped them out for new ones (6l6s) and what I have perceived is a change in sound which is rather... annoying. Sure, the Amp sounds "better" now that it has new valves, but at the same time it has become so sizzling in sound with way too much highs and a lack of low end that playing anything other than my Jackson Fusion with it is horrible. I have the feeling that either the old tubes, being quite worn (I'm the 3rd owner of the thing and it never had a tube swap before) had a warmer and softer sound to them or the new ones are really cheap. Then again the Cab (Laney GS412la, Tonni Iommi signature) has Celestion 70 eighties in it which are said to be sizzling in sound. The Jackson actually is naturally a darker guitar and the Painkiller sounds perfectly balanced in it, however I still need to be carefull with the treble and the presence. My Strat which is on the very bright side sounds horrible through it. The Holydiver has no bottom end and almost a single coil like quality to it, however playing through my Orange Micro Terror with it the Strat sounds fine and I have to dial in a brighter sound for the Jackson..."
So as you see my current problem with my setup is my speakers are waaay to spikey sounding. I've done some research and listened to clips and what a wonder, I found I like the sound of Celestion Vintage 30s and G12T75s the most.
Now as far as I know Marshall used either one in their cabs. Can you enlighten me a bit on the differences, the strengths, the weaknesses and if a mixed match in a say 2*12 cab would work? As far as I perceive the V30s have the signature mid range grind and the T75s seem to be more scooped? Help would be appreciated! :)
Cheers
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^ yeah pretty much.
v30 has an upper mid spike, rolled off top end (so it sorta sounds bright but not bright at the same time, if that makes sense) and cut/tight bass.
g12t75 has top end sizzle/fizz, mid scoop and boomy/loose lows.
they combine pretty well. whether they'd be your absolute favourite mix is another thing, though, a lot of mixes sound good (though a lot sound terrible, too :lol: ).
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It isn't the tightest and cleanest but those clips show of the difference and the mix of both speakers pretty well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn2UoDJOEAo&list=UUDqTpFPc4Cil6qooxzBlk3A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn2UoDJOEAo&list=UUDqTpFPc4Cil6qooxzBlk3A)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_636705&feature=iv&index=1&list=UUDqTpFPc4Cil6qooxzBlk3A&src_vid=Kn2UoDJOEAo&v=9hNeHl998v4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_636705&feature=iv&index=1&list=UUDqTpFPc4Cil6qooxzBlk3A&src_vid=Kn2UoDJOEAo&v=9hNeHl998v4)
The T75 nails the early 'tallica tone pretty well and the combination seems to compliment each other rather nicely :)
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If you want those kinda v30 tones.
Id recommend the Eminence V128.
Its pretty much like a tighter v30 with less fizz in the highs and its also punchier imho with less grating mids.
After going through loads of speakers i settled on this as my perfect speaker.
It's also about half the price of a v30 too which is nice.
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WGS Veteran 30: V30-flavour with smoothed out uppermids.
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What you're describing is pretty much why I changed valves in my Toe-Knee built SLO Clone for JJ 6L6GCs at his recommendation.
They bought down and rounded out the treble frequencies whilst also adding a little bit more bass. It might be a good thing to try before you go looking at different speakers.
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yeah the g12t75 is very much classic 80s fizzy metal tones, and the v30 is more modern. those vids aren't too bad in showing the differences.
i like the v128 a lot, in fact it's my favourite speaker with my jet city, but as toe-knee says, it doesn't sound the same as a v30 (i'd have said the v30 was tighter but i could be misremembering, i haven't done any head to heads for a while :lol: ), and if you want something that sounds the same as a v30 i'd just get a v30. Conversely, if you find yourself saying, "I like the v30, but it's a bit strident in the mids" or something like that, the v128 might be worth considering- though it's also worth bearing in mind that the g12t75 will tame the v30 a fair bit, too (and some other speakers mixed with the v30 will, too).
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Thanks for all the replies guys! Never actually thought about something else besides Celestion, since those seem to be a popular and delivering solution for most things.
So to sum up: changing the Valves to JJs and maybe getting 2 Eminence V128 speakers (to wire them up in a X-Pattern with the Stock seventy 80s?) should solve the problem? I looked up the prices for the V30s and the 128s seem to be a far cheaper solution. Of course I would need to learn how to change tubes, bias the amp (does the Valveking need Bias adjustment?) and wire the speakers into the cab...
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It might well be cheaper just to get a better cab which already has good speakers in it. I don't have much experience with 70/80s, but what little i've tried of them I didn't much like them. and swapping 4 speakers gets expensive really, really quickly.
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That's why I'd buy only 2 new speakers and wire them into a X-Pattern with the old ones. Before I get myself 4 new speakers, I would certainly rather get a new cab :P
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That's why I'd buy only 2 new speakers and wire them into a X-Pattern with the old ones. Before I get myself 4 new speakers, I would certainly rather get a new cab :P
to honest that is a much more sensible idea, when I went from a harley benton to an orange the orange cab trashed it, it's just as much about the quality of wood and construction and how it resonates than it is about speaker choice. I honestly think that almost any speaker would sound good in it...well maybe not some but most.
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Before spending money on 2 speakers or a new cab I really would try some JJ 6L6GCs if your amp can take them.
I was in the same position where I was going to ditch my V30s as they were just far too bright with my Toe-Knee built SLO but the valve change sorted it right out, and saved me alot more money than changing speakers or cab
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Before spending money on 2 speakers or a new cab I really would try some JJ 6L6GCs if your amp can take them.
I was in the same position where I was going to ditch my V30s as they were just far too bright with my Toe-Knee built SLO but the valve change sorted it right out, and saved me alot more money than changing speakers or cab
I agree...it's not expensive to buy a new valve and they make a massive difference as you say. I was also going to ditch my Fender Champion 600 but then got a JJ ECC83 and 6V6 and it sounded amazing compared to the cheap chinese ones, so ended up keeping it.
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That's why I'd buy only 2 new speakers and wire them into a X-Pattern with the old ones. Before I get myself 4 new speakers, I would certainly rather get a new cab :P
i'd just be concerned that two good speakers combined with two mediocre ones might not sound that great
doing a valve swap is probably worth considering, too
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I saw that same youtube vid youve posted when looking into speakers-i used to have G12T75s but then changed to V30s which I love, they seem clearer to my ears. I would like to try an X pattern combo but as I am gonna be downsizing I will probably stick with V30s
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Well then I'm gonna change tubes and see how it alters the sound. Funnily, there actually exists a Valveking Wikipedia: http://ultimate-guitar-valveking.wikispaces.com/ (http://ultimate-guitar-valveking.wikispaces.com/)
Otherwise until I have the cash for a new cab I'll have to stick with my current setup *sigh*
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So funny that you guys have brought up the V128, I had a little surprising thing happen,
I'm working right now 14 hour shifts every day during the summer as a waiter in a big summer garden kind of restaurant and we had a live band yesterday playing. You know, all the top 40 stuff and popular Austrian music, not the kind of thing I usually play. However, being like a woman that sees shoes when I see guitars and amps, I walked up to the guitarist of the band and started to talk to him about the stuff he was using. Amongst the axes he played a VGS Les Paul and more important, a Warmoth Strat through a Cornford 30 all tube amplifier (don't know what the exact model name was) and a Palmer 4*12. I didn't fail to notice that he had a very warm and nice sound, especially when they played more bluesy/rocky stuff like Sweet Home Alabama and Thunderstruck.
Surprise, surprise: he told me he had Eminence V128s in the cab and that Soldano uses them in all their stuff. I must say, allthough it wasn't metal, now I have a good reference point from personal experience.
The Warmoth Strat played and sounded like a dream, I don't know if he did the build and setup himself or gave it to someone to do it, but man if this is what their stuff is like, then you can't go wrong with them :D
Edit: it was a Cornford Roadhouse 30, looked it up online
Anyway, off to work so I can earn money and acquire more gear I don't need, hooray!
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Oh trust me they are more than capable of metal.
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^ yeah
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The Celestion T75 is actually not so boomy on the low end - it holds the low end quite well. The bigger problem is that its mids just don't cut the mix too well, which is why I consider it one of the worst speakers ever (on a purely subjective/personal basis). The V30 doesn't have that problem, and I think its popularity is really more down to the fact that it sits well in the mix rather than its sound. You just can't go wrong with V30s.
The Eminence Governor is very similar IMO. I used that as well for a while (replaced a T75 with it actually). It can be quite harsh and "in your face" IMO, but, again, that's kind of good in the mix. If the V128 is like the one that Krank uses (I actually think the Krank one is a customized version of it "tuned" to be louder), then I think t it does sound nice, but I also think there is quite a lot of natural compression going on very quickly, especially on the low end. It's certainly good for metal.
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I totally agree with Alex about the V30: you don't get lost in the mix.
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yeah i think the thing about the v30 is that it's totally overused (IMO) in totally unsuitable amps- but that doesn't mean that it's a bad speaker or doesn't excel at what it's good at. there's a bandwagon that v30s are the only good speaker, but then the backlash that they're terrible is kinda silly, too.
Also they get a lot less harsh when they break in. I've got some broken in v30s and some newer ones, and when i tried them head to head the difference was pretty obvious. the eminence v128 almost sounded more like the broken in v30s out of the box (not exactly the same, of course, there were still some differences).
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yeah i think the thing about the v30 is that it's totally overused (IMO) in totally unsuitable amps- but that doesn't mean that it's a bad speaker or doesn't excel at what it's good at. there's a bandwagon that v30s are the only good speaker, but then the backlash that they're terrible is kinda silly, too.
Also they get a lot less harsh when they break in. I've got some broken in v30s and some newer ones, and when i tried them head to head the difference was pretty obvious. the eminence v128 almost sounded more like the broken in v30s out of the box (not exactly the same, of course, there were still some differences).
Yep, this!
For the last 6 months or so I've been thinking about replacing 1 of the V30s in my Zilla 2x12 with 1 of the new Celestion G12H75 Creambacks, G12H30 with more power handling, when they became available. It seems that all the extra playing and gigging I've been doing with the 2 bands I'm in whilst waiting for the Creamback to be released has really broken in the V30s and practically everything that made me want to change 1 of them is gone.
They've lost the sharp high mid spike they had and they seem to have rounded out a bit. They still cut through a mix really well, but aren't anywhere near as 'strident' in the mids as they were.
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While I recognize that V30s seem to be a safe choice the most times, I'm still wondering how much cut you get with the V128s. I'm always looking for alternatives, so I'm not just a part of the mass so to say, I know the easiest thing to do is to get a Cab with V30s and be on the safe side, but then again one has to experiment in order to be "unique".
So how do these compare to V30s, or rather already broken in ones? Do they have less cut?
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While I recognize that V30s seem to be a safe choice the most times, I'm still wondering how much cut you get with the V128s. I'm always looking for alternatives, so I'm not just a part of the mass so to say, I know the easiest thing to do is to get a Cab with V30s and be on the safe side, but then again one has to experiment in order to be "unique".
So how do these compare to V30s, or rather already broken in ones? Do they have less cut?
I find they cut equally as well they just have less fizzy high end and the low end isnt as extreme and theyre tighter/punchier.
Also it's worth noting that i swapped from some v30s that have been used for years by 3 different owners to the v128s so they were definitely broken in
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Also heres a clip of the v128s.
No boost
https://soundcloud.com/boyes/extralonglife
excuse the sloppy playing.
When i was using v30s i found i had to boost the amp to keep the lows in check. With the v128s I don't have that issue
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Yep, this!
For the last 6 months or so I've been thinking about replacing 1 of the V30s in my Zilla 2x12 with 1 of the new Celestion G12H75 Creambacks, G12H30 with more power handling, when they became available. It seems that all the extra playing and gigging I've been doing with the 2 bands I'm in whilst waiting for the Creamback to be released has really broken in the V30s and practically everything that made me want to change 1 of them is gone.
They've lost the sharp high mid spike they had and they seem to have rounded out a bit. They still cut through a mix really well, but aren't anywhere near as 'strident' in the mids as they were.
yeah the broken in ones are far smoother etc. It's still not a tone I'd use for everything- but it is a tone I'd use for some things.
I can't really comment on the cut as I don't gig, lol. So bear that in mind. I'll defer to the other guys on here for that. :)
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Also heres a clip of the v128s.
No boost
https://soundcloud.com/boyes/extralonglife
excuse the sloppy playing.
When i was using v30s i found i had to boost the amp to keep the lows in check. With the v128s I don't have that issue
I really want to try your V128s with my Splawn! I have no doubts they'd fit really well with the SLO clone, but I can't seem to find anyone that's posted about using them with a Splawn.
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That sounds pretty nice Tony :)
I just played an oversized Mesa Cab today equipped with V30s (EVH 5153 with a Jackson Dinky and a Holydiver in the bridge) and it sounded just amazing. Fat and juicy organic sound with depth and bite, just amazing. Any cabs that use the Eminence V128s stock so I could play them in my guitar store as a reference? I won't be having enough money too soon to get a new amp and a new speaker so any first hand experiences I can make are highly appreciated.
Cheers
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That sounds pretty nice Tony :)
I just played an oversized Mesa Cab today equipped with V30s (EVH 5153 with a Jackson Dinky and a Holydiver in the bridge) and it sounded just amazing. Fat and juicy organic sound with depth and bite, just amazing. Any cabs that use the Eminence V128s stock so I could play them in my guitar store as a reference? I won't be having enough money too soon to get a new amp and a new speaker so any first hand experiences I can make are highly appreciated.
Cheers
I think some of the Krank cabs have the 16ohm version which is OEM only and the soldano cabs do too. Other than that I have no idea.
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Will see if I can find those, thanks Tony :)
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That sounds pretty nice Tony :)
I just played an oversized Mesa Cab today equipped with V30s (EVH 5153 with a Jackson Dinky and a Holydiver in the bridge) and it sounded just amazing. Fat and juicy organic sound with depth and bite, just amazing. Any cabs that use the Eminence V128s stock so I could play them in my guitar store as a reference? I won't be having enough money too soon to get a new amp and a new speaker so any first hand experiences I can make are highly appreciated.
Cheers
I think some of the Krank cabs have the 16ohm version which is OEM only and the soldano cabs do too. Other than that I have no idea.
yeah they're the only ones i'm aware of offhand.
the palmer cabs have eminences stock but i don't know if any have the v12s. Also they're particleboard and mdf so it might not give you the best representation of them...