Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: maliciousteve on March 06, 2006, 01:33:37 PM
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hey guys i have a couple of digital recorders in mind. The Tascam DP-01, Zoom MRS-802 and the Zoom MRS-8.
I need something that gives me half decent guitar tones (or the option to use external amps), programable percussion (so i can make my own beats). That's all i'm really looking for so i can write my own songs to use within the band i'm in and to just have fun and record my own tracks, expand my song writing.
Which one would be the best out of those 3? bare in mind, that i don't have the money to afford £400+ recorders at the moment because i have to be tight on money and not be foolish with it.
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I don't know about the other units you mention, but I have been looking at the DP01 myself. It is only a recorder, there is no fx on board and no rythm processor. So with this you would need a drum machine, external fx and either a mike or a amp moddler for your guitar sound.
As I have loads of outboard junk sitting round I am thinking about getting the DP01, so if anyone else has one let us know what you think.
Sorry couldn't help with the zooms.
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dude i have the zoom ps-04 and its awesome! as far i know its very similar to the MRS series but smaller with less tracks....
drum machine is class and you can have a simple beat going in seconds. if you want to go that bit further though you can program the drums completely which is what im just starting to delve into at the moment. they're realistic as well- sound excellent. guitar sounds are ok stock but you can fully customise them anyway you want and get some pretty decent sounds out of em. alternatively, if your using a small practice tranny amp then you can run the guitar into the amp then connect a cable from the amps extension speaker jack to the zoom and get some really cool tones that way which i personally think sound excellent for certain things. all in all, its excellent for the money in my opinion. not sure on the exact differences between PS series and MRS but i know its not much. if the memory is anything similar though you will DEFINATELY need a bigger card- i would send you a recording of my band with the zoom but we havent managed to complete one yet as we keep running out of space!
need anymore info then ill be happy to help if i can, this is probably one of the few topics on here i can actually help a lot with.
this is an excellent forum for the zoom units, not too disimilar to here actually :)
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/index.php
theres clips posted regularly and loads of info and help available.
P.S, as well as a drum machine theres a bass machine as well!!!
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excellent, thanks sambo :)
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Well i just checked out songs written on the MSR-8 and i'm pretty impressed. The drums sound better than the drum sounds on the Logic program i used to use at college. Looks like i'll be buying one then :D
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excellent choice! they're pretty cool pieces of kit. especially when you consider that my PS-04 fits in my pocket!
only thing i would say is that its bloody complicated.... the manual was like 100+ pages and thats not even divided into loads of languages lol- there was a 100+ page manual for EACH language!
but yer... ive had it for ages and after i got the basic concept of recording and editing effects i gave up on the manual cause i didnt need to do anything else... its only recently ive been looking into the rhythm processing so i may need another couple of hours of reading before i have any idea what to do lol.
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oh and let me know how you get on with it when you get it...
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Sambo, for a purely guitar recording box what would be the optimum the PS-04 or the PS-02? I mean, is there a huge difference (thats if you researched when getting yours).
Just checked your clips using it (although you called it cr@ppy there and are bleating about it now ROFLMAO) and are cool.
When I was looking for summit (and bought, well got bought) my Boss GT-8 no-one brought up these Zooms (that I remember).
The PS-02 can be had CHEAP so wondered about the merit of 04 over 02 for like recording clips that are posted here?
Nick
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hmmm, no idea actually, interesting idea. when i bought the ps-04 i didnt even know the ps-02 existed it was only when i joined that forum i discovered it. i presume if the '4' in ps-04 means four tracks then the ps-02 must have only 2 tracks? part from that they look very similar except for a slightly different shape and layout. i cant imagine there being too much of a difference- maybe the amount of effects on offer i dunno. youd have to look into it. i spose it also depends what your needs are- the 04 was necessary for me cause i needed the four trcks for my band but those 2 extra tracks could be useless to you. listening to the clips on the forum i doint think theres a noticeable difference in sound quality....
LOL! oh yer... i think i called it cr@ppy because i was surrounded by people with all this fancy recording gear and amps worth $$$$$/££££ and compared to that its nothing... but for what its for and who its aimed at its excellent.
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Cool
will research more but..........
UPS just came, early for once, WOOHOO!
Major Red Flameage :)
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Another one to consider might be the Korg PXR-4. I've owned this unit a few years and I liked the FX sounds and the recording sound quality, even from the built-in Mic. A drawback is it's use of outdated memory cards (smartmedia) which limits the memory capacity.
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yer that was one i looked at in reivalry to the ps-04... i had pretty much already decided on the zoom though and from what i remember i dont think think was actually any difference.... really
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Well seeing as they all use smart media thats not a issue I guess.
I have the Boss GT-8 which taxes my brain enough really but if I can get one of these for under $80 it's gotta be worth it.
Maybe can actually go, guitar-Boss Gt-8-Zoom to record.
Anyway, thanks Sam, looking at MORE bloody music toys now! Better keep missus in dark this time lol.
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yer lol i think that would be wise....
yer it could definately go guitar-boss-zoom.... dunno what it would sound like but you could definately do it lol.....
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that was it- just remembered the pretty much one and only difference between that little korg and the zoom- korg has a usb port. to some people that means a lot but doesnt mean anything to me as i find it much easier to record onto a card then put it onto comp later rather than plugging it straight into the comp. dunno though, could be a feature your after.
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The USB port on the PXR-4 only makes exchanging songs with your computer easier, you can't use it for direct recording.
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ahhh i see. apart from that then i think they're virtually identical units except i guess for the effects and drums they have on board.
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whatta bout one of dees?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Boss-BR-532-Digital-Studio_W0QQitemZ7395962922QQcategoryZ15199QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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why not.... i mean it looks like it does a similar thing.... you looking for something boss then? haha
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was'nt looking for a darn thing till you started :P
No, wanted a motronome so that was a lie lol.
Nah, if can get a zoomy thingy cheapo why not give it a go. Just NOT a fan of cards is all so usb would be good but the zoom looks better and has more reviews lol.
Not liking the tracks on that forum though. Think your track here serves better for the Hard Rock I am interested in.
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yer the tracks on there are a bit mamby pamby or however that dodgy term is meant to be spelt (if it even is a term). some are cool though you jsut have to be lucky finding them. im gonna do some heavier stuff in the coming weeks, i reckon their well worth it if you can get one on the cheap like you said. so many editing possibilities you jsut have to know what you want to do- i just fiddle until i get something weird...
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well, seeing as they ALL say they have metronomes then I guess just take ya pick. Korgs are going for about $100 her it seems.
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damn everything is so cheap over there!!!! they're like £199 over here.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-TONEWORKS-PANDORA-PXR4-DIGITAL-RECORDER-MINT_W0QQitemZ7395552517QQcategoryZ15199QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
hah, this is in my town
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lol kool.... go for it dude.... do eeny meeny miney mo between them all lol...
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Why did you choose Zoom over Korg Sam? Just interested.
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partly cause i already had my heart set on it lol.... (well id seen the zoom first anyway) partly because it was smaller lol (only VERY marginally i think though) partly because i had heard of zoom effects and not so much of korg effects (although they're decent ive heard) and partly because the zoom had more info avaiable and with the pattern editor and stuff available for download it seemed like it could be slightly easier to use.
in the end though i couldnt decide and it came to the point where i actually said to my dad "just get either one i cant choose" lol....
then i finally just went with the zoom because it was the one i had orginally found... theres that little to choose between them...
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I know its a bit expensive but howabout a Tascan Portastudio? They look pretty good, although I'm just saying that coz I've heard Tascam are a good brand :lol: The Zoom or Korg probably have a better value for money though.. Just wondering Sam, if your Zoom doesnt have a USB, then how do you get your recordings across to the PC?
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Not sure but probably uses a card reader for the smart media card via usb port.
Thats only way to do it I can see.
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yup thats what i do- i have a little usb card reader which transfers all my files across.
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If you've got an iBook -- even one with a broken screen -- I'd go with GarageBand and a decent audio interface. For the money, it's tough to beat GarageBand as a computer-based music-making package (GB being basically free :)). Even if you ditch the Mac for a Windows machine, you've really only spent money on the audio interface, which you should be able to use with your Windows machine as well (and you can buy some other recording software like N-track Studio or the cheap versions of Cubase without breaking the bank). And even if you stick with a busted-screen iBook, you can always hang a cheapo CRT monitor off it so you can see. :)
But regardless of make, model, or brand, I think it's tough to beat some kind of multitrack recording software on a computer in terms of value for money these days. You'll get a fairly flexible and expandible solution by going that route, at least in comparison to one of these little digital units.
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i spose your right carlaz.... only issue there is quality and maybe effects/features.... i mean ive never used a pc recording program so i wouldnt know how good they really are.... going by your last clip though i see you can get pretty good recordings out of them.... could be an option- but then theres portability- you always need a pc unless your fortunate enough to have a laptop you can take with you....
just out of interest how much was that audio interface you said you got? a tascam did you say?
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Hey Sambo. I got my Zoom through. I won't be writing anything yet as i need to get a few things. Card Reader and Headphones. Once you've transfered files to the pc, how to do change the format to Wav. or Mp3?
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Steve,
which model did you end up going with?
This is a good site it seems;
http://ps02_solutions.tripod.com/
Nick
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i spose your right carlaz.... only issue there is quality and maybe effects/features.... i mean ive never used a pc recording program so i wouldnt know how good they really are.... going by your last clip though i see you can get pretty good recordings out of them.... could be an option-
GB is pretty full featured in terms of effects, software instruments, and extras like its loop library. Cubase SE is 99 quid and pretty powerful for the home user -- not sure what sort of effects and stuff are included with it, but there are lots of good, free VST plugins for PCs that can be stuck right on in there. The other PC software I know people using is n-Track Studio is USD 50 and presumably more basic than Cubase, but you can use free VST plugins with it, too.
Obviously you can also use any software or hardware you have now or buy in the future: amps, amp modellers, drum machines, microphones, keyboards, whatever. For example, in theory I could use GB's software amp models, third-party software amp models, external amp model units (like a POD), mic up an real amp, or run a cable from a real amp through an attenuator or something. And I can colloborate with anyone who sends me the likes of a WAV or even MIDI file.
but then theres portability- you always need a pc unless your fortunate enough to have a laptop you can take with you....
Well, if you're looking for a proper mobile recoreding studio, that's a different issue! :) Though I suppose these days, you can get a new Windows laptop for GBP 500 or less. Even a new iBook is only GBP 700.
But I'm a hobbyist, not a pro :) and though I've got a laptop, I haven't bothered recording with it except at home. If I can't record directly with other people in-house, they can always record something on their home computer and send me the files. And for playing live gigs, I just want an amp, not a digital recorder. Nothing that can be damaged by having beer spilled on it, anyway. :)
just out of interest how much was that audio interface you said you got? a tascam did you say?
The Tascam I have lists for GBP 145 in Digital Village, though if I were buying now, I'd get the Line6 Toneport UX1 (GBP 85) or slightly sexier UX2 (GBP 135), since both those come with a pile of useful software amp models. evilBay could be a friend here ....
Ultimately, I just think the little recording units offer too little for their price. Yes, they are small and convenient -- that's their thing. But I think they are very easy to outgrow. If you want to do lots of recording, even as just a mildly serious home-hobbyist, a computer-based solution offers better "bang for the buck", IMO.
I mean, I had a computer anyway, so the audio interface was a relatively cheap investment to extract a lot of potential. My laptop has more studio power than the Beatles had, and I'm forced to blame my failure to sell a bazillion albums on my sucky playing and my sucky audio engineering skills :) rather than the recording technology at my disposal.
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Steve,
which model did you end up going with?
This is a good site it seems;
http://ps02_solutions.tripod.com/
Nick
I ended up getting the MRS-8. Just because it had more tracks and drum pads.
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Cool
look forward to hearing some clips.
Darned Sam got me thinking lol.
Looking at Zoom PS-04, Korg PRX4 and Korg D4. If I can get one cheap.
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yer spose your right carlaz...
it all really depends on personal circumstances in the end.
nice one steve! definately looking forward to clips. when it comes to changing the format- just download a converter- the one i have is called "cool MP3 converter" 8) lol but any one will do. another great thing to download is the card manager- it makes it REALLY simple to just plug the card reader in- select the project/song and then listen to it- adjust volume, adjust panning and save the tracks as a complete song. then you find that song whereever you saved it and convert it in the aforementioned converter.
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Cool, that sounds simply enough. I'm just reading through the manual and learning how to use it properly. So far i've just been listening to beats already made, they're pretty cool. The clean sounds are pretty good too. But i'll be using my ADA MP-1 for all the distortion. Can't wait to start recording.
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yer the distortion are the sounds which really need tweaking if you were gonna use the in-built effects- but like you said the cleans are cool- try effect number 11- its a compressor- sounds wicked IMO.
also, interesting point, sometimes theres some background fuzz/hum on certain effects (that numebr 11 being one of them) but when you record and play it back all the noise is gone.
ive never really looked much into drums on there cause my drummer now has an electronic drum kit for our band recordings- but they sound pretty damn good. to start recording real quick just go -
-system
-project
-new
-grade HF or something similar (the first option that comes up anyway)
then a blank screen will come up with a bit of info at the tom maybe.
two key things that puzzled me at first- sometimes it'll appear that no sound is going into the zoom when your playing- check that the little sensitivity knob next to the input jack isnt turned all the way down- it has to be up jsut a little for any sound to come through. and also, (this ones more obvious) make sure you select the track you wanna record by clicking the little circular button above the respective slider before you record- theres nothing worse than thinking youve just recorded a whole song then discovering it didnt actually record anything!!!
good luck with it.... have fun...
P.S the tuner (which is actually really quite good) can be found by pressing-
-effect-
- tuner/bypass
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it all really depends on personal circumstances in the end.
Well, yeah. :) That's why BKP make a lotta different pickups instead of just one, after all :)
Mind you, some of those Zoom MRS models start getting up towards being solid little DAWs. And I'll take physical faders and twiddly knobs over GUI faders and knobs any day! (I'd get a a little USB control surface to use with GB, like the iControl, if I had any cash! :))
Still, I would not thrilled about paying that much for a tiny little editing screen and (as far as I can tell) not much in the way of interface to any computer one happened to have lying about. . This is exactly the problem I have with my Roland VS-1680, which was an amazing piece of kit when it came out about 10 years ago, but doesn't talk to other devices terribly well and has a dinky little screen. Otherwise, it's beautiful! :)
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Way I am looking at it.
All I originally wanted was a metronome type device.
Then heard about these things.
MRS-8 and above look quite competant for use and recording. The smaller units like Korg PXR4 and Zoom PS-02/04 are more for "notebook sctrachings/ideas" that is to take with you and jot down ideas with. They are small,portable and do the job. There is ALOT built into them (far to much for their diminitive size to easily display) so alot of tweaking and hidden menu finding will be involved.
For stuff like posting clips here or elsewhere I am sure that all the units will/are more than adaquite.
Again, ya pay ya money and take ya choice.
For me, if I can get a used unit for about the same as was looking at a good metronome/beat unit, then may as well buy one to "noodle around with", until I move and get a PC with better processing power/memory anyway.
I am sure computers are the best way to go but you really need a well spec'd one and good software. Actually it's probably the best idea to buy a computer and have it dedicated to recording if this is what you are serious about. All depends on how far ya wanna go, as always :)
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Is'nt it true also, that over past several years, manufacturers (empowered by consumers) have been producing products smaller and smaller to the result of being almost un-useable due to their miniturisation.
Take cellphones for example (although we are still woefully behind here in US). They got to almost postage stamp size when people finally realised that this was abit silly and un-useable. There is an optimum size for anything when dealing with people, due to eyesight/physical size, but the trend was to get as small as possible for awhile.
Maybe this is a driving factor in the diminitive size of some of these recorders.
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yer your completely right on size nick, and carlaz your spot on about screen size. having said that, the ps-04 is really quite simple and easy to use despite the screen size being reletively small... i had a few doubts at first but the operation is pretty basic and the dual-purpose buttons arent complicated unless you make them really. the only time i think it would get too complicated... is if you were trying to use its full capabilities- full drum programming+bass programming- guitars with effects and mastering effects- tracks being turned into stereo e.t.c e.t.c. but for sketching and making clips like nick said its perfect....
oh and despite some things being too small... i lvoe the fact that my ps-04 really is pocket-sized... i can actually walk around with it in my pocket without people thinking im glad to see them...
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was having ALOT of trouble finding a clip on Sambo's qouted Zoom forum that impressed me on the 02/04 or Mrs.
Just found a cover of 20th Century Boy done ALL on a PS-04, now am impressed enough with that little bitty box of tricks. Very fun thing it seems!
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Is'nt it true also, that over past several years, manufacturers (empowered by consumers) have been producing products smaller and smaller to the result of being almost un-useable due to their miniturisation.
Take cellphones for example (although we are still woefully behind here in US). They got to almost postage stamp size when people finally realised that this was abit silly and un-useable. There is an optimum size for anything when dealing with people, due to eyesight/physical size, but the trend was to get as small as possible for awhile.
Maybe this is a driving factor in the diminitive size of some of these recorders.
I knew it, i knew my 'package' was untrendy :lol:
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dude forget what he says- hes old AND hes a yank :P
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darn, that is "Benny Hiil esque" right there :lol:
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uho, Sambo wants to get personal and start summit :)
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:lol:
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pity this guy has a reserve. Love it when people cannot read/spell or type :lol:
Won't get so much traffic with ad like this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7396841935&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1
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haha what an idiot... they look easier to operate actually- the bigger ones.....
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Hey Steve,
any feedback on the MRS8 yet??????????????
I really wanna hear some comments :)
Ease of use? Sound? etc. etc.