Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Dave Sloven on August 06, 2013, 01:59:28 PM
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I'm assuming this pedal is very similar to the first version of the G-String.
I have one but it doesn't seem to be making much effect, even when put through the effects loop and the front end together as specified. I am wondering if I am doing something wrong!
Should the pedal be very early in the chain - i.e., before the overdrive but after the tuner - or should it be after all the potential noise-producing things in the front-end (in my case this is limited to a Maxon OD-9 and an Electro Harmonix Metal Muff, besides the tuner of course)????
It's a very expensive piece of kit - cost me around $270 local currency, almost as much as a set of BKPs - so it's very important that it actually works! Some people have raved about them, and I have seen them on youtube silencing a whole heap of pedals, but it doesn't seem to have much effect on mine.
All I can think of is that my signal chain is set up wrong or I have a defective pedal. I twiddle the knob around a lot but it generally sounds the same.
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I have the first version of the G-string.
I put the first thing in my effects chain (Guitar straight into Guitar In on the Decimator G-string), then from Guitar Out to all my effects, overdrive, ect, then to the amp. From amp Effects Loop Send I plug it into Dec In on the Decimator and then Dec Out to delays, reverbs, etc and finally to Effects Loop Return.
Basically what the pedal does is it tracks the guitar signal coming into Guitar In and sends it unaffected, though buffered out of Guitar Out. The actual noise reduction occurs between Dec In and Dec Out.
I hope this helps.
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Thanks! I'll give that a try. Do you have a tuner? I figured that would go in front, simply because it is always on true bypass when playing. My tuner is a TC Electronics Polytune. My only real effects at the moment are the overdrive and the distortion, both of which I mainly use as boosters, with the fuzz cut.
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I actually have a tuner after the pedal, but I really don't think it'll make a difference either way, especially if the tuner is off most of the time and is true bypass.
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With the Polytune you can't play through it - it cuts the signal chain when it is engaged, so no signal would be going to the Decimator. I will try the following:
GUITAR-->POLYTUNE-->G-STRING-->OD-9-->METAL MUFF-->PEAVEY 6534+-->G-STRING-->PEAVEY 6534+
I don't have a wah as yet but if I get one I will place it after the G-String guitar out. I guess delays and reverbs go between the G-String Dec Out and the Return in the loop
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OK ... I tried it like that. I still don't get a dramatic difference between off and on in terms of 'noise floor'. What I do notice is that if I mute properly with my left hand the noise cuts right out in terms of anything arising from the signal chain. I still have a fizzy sound coming from the amp in lead channel and that drip drip noise has come back (in all channels, it's just louder in the lead channel) even though I have put a filter on the power outlet. I am wondering if it is something to do with the tubes.
Here's a photo of the way I have the ISP connected now.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/aep0fc.jpg)
It is also said that one of the things that was improved with the 6534+ relative to the 6505+ was the noise gate, so maybe it was doing a half-decent job of that already? Maybe the problems arise somewhere else?
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i've got the bog standard decimator. it works well.
it might be worth image googling "boss ns2 x pattern"- i have an ns2 (which seems to be more similar to the g-string), and found it only really cut amp noise when run like that.
maybe you're already running it like that, though...
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Never had the g string but i always put the noise gate at the end of the chain so you get maximum noise reduction from your chain of fx.
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There is no noise gate in a 6505+
That whole series of amps is noisy. The lead channel just has gain out the wazzoo.
When I had one, I ran an NS-2 as a gate in the FX loop of my 6505. It sounded terrible. The amp generated enough hiss to keep the gate just about open and all my notes decayed really weirdly. After that I just used it in front of the amp. It stopped instant feedback at loud volumes by cutting the guitar signal (and anything before it) going into the amp, including low level hiss from pedals, but that is all. I did have friends that ran it in the X-pattern thing but I could never get that to work for me either.
In my experience, pedals generate a bit of hiss, but usually only in a bad way if you're running them from a poor AC adapter. I doubt the decimator is acting as much of a filter, and more as a gate. The noise coring circuit in peavey amps pop in what was the XXX and the JSX, but not in the 5150 style amps as far as I know. They might have one in the EL34 thing you have though.
I find the hiss in those amps really annoying. That said, a lot of people love those amps. I have a 5150 II on my table here that I'm repairing for a friend, and it's making me want to buy one.
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I had another try with the ISP pedal. I think at least one time I had forgotten to turn the effects loop on, that explains a lot! I then had trouble (some static noise) with the tuner in front of the Decimator, so I swapped them. I then had a lot of success with it, and it was definitely working, but then I got this other horrible noise coming through when I first touched the strings, kind of like a bad earth. I thought something was wrong with my cabinet for a moment, but then I switched off the effects loop (thus cutting out the Decimator) and it went back to normal. I also experienced a volume drop when this problem occurred. I'm thinking it's either something to do with the loop circuit in the amp, something in the Decimator (unlikely), or something to do with the routing of the cables (it improved when I moved cables around, they might be touching one another here and there). I think part of the problem might be the patch cables, which seem less substantial than the main cables I am using.
Anyway here's the set-up that worked:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/1zgb6mx.jpg)
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TLDR
afaik ISP recommends using their products at the end of a gain pedal chain
http://www.isptechnologies.com/manuals/Decimator%20II%20G%20String%20Manual.pdf
(http://www.isptechnologies.com/manuals/Decimator%20II%20G%20String%20Manual.pdf)
You should go guitar > tuner > od9 > muff > decimator > amp input > amp send > decimator loop > time based effects (for future reference) > amp return
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Thanks. I'll try that. I seem to be reading all kinds of set-ups online. I know that's what ISP recommend but the first time I tried it something must have been wrong. I'm a bit concerned that it reacted badly to just the tuner in front of it ...
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TLDR
afaik ISP recommends using their products at the end of a gain pedal chain
http://www.isptechnologies.com/manuals/Decimator%20II%20G%20String%20Manual.pdf
(http://www.isptechnologies.com/manuals/Decimator%20II%20G%20String%20Manual.pdf)
You should go guitar > tuner > od9 > muff > decimator > amp input > amp send > decimator loop > time based effects (for future reference) > amp return
I apologize, but I have to disagree. Here's what the manual says:
The Decimator II G String has 4 ¼ inch jacks. Connect the guitar directly to the Guitar IN. Connect the Guitar OUT to the input of the amplifier. Connect the DEC IN to the loop send and DEC OUT to the loop return. For best performance place all gain pedals in front of the amplifier and DEC IN. You can put Delay and Reverb effects pedals after the Decimator II G String and before the loop return to avoid cutting off reverb and delay tails.
So muff and OD should go in the loop of the decimator.
I'm a bit concerned that it reacted badly to just the tuner in front of it ...
There's really no harm in putting the tuner in the loop of the Decimator, before Muff and OD, of course. So maybe taking the tuner out of equation altogether will help troubleshoot.
To troubleshoot the pedal you can go: Guitar - Decimator Guitar In - Amp In - Amp Loop Send - Decimator Dec In - Decimator Dec Out - Amp Loop Return. Have your Decimator OFF and with threshold all the way to -70, amp gain petty high, roll your guitar volume all the way up, mute the strings but do not play anything and listen to the noise. Now turn the Decimator ON and start turning the threshold up until the noise floor is gone. Now play a couple of staccato notes to see how fast the gate is closing and raise the threshold up a little more. You should not hear any noise anymore. If all is fine, then the pedal works fine.
Now try adding Muff and OD in front of the amp. If all is well, add the tuner just before your first drive pedal and assess how well the tuner works when Decimator is on.
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When I used to play in a shouty metal band I used a high gain blackstar pedal and an NS-2 for all the tight syncopation. I ran my rig liiiiiiiike...
Guitar - tuner - overdrive - noise gate - phaser pedal - amp
And that's also how I've seen a lot of other guys run it too!
Paddy
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It seems to work the same either way.
I think I have an issue with earthing/interference either in the guitar, the loop circuit, or the cables. The problem is only there when the loop is engaged and the ISP pedal is on. It seems to have an effect when you touch the strings. I am wondering if it is something to do with the cables all touching each other on the right side of the pedal. If one of the cables is conducting through to the others intermittently that might explain the volume drop and boomp boomp noise when you touch the strings?
I still have that drip drip noise in the Peavey too. It's just about driving me to drink. I'm wondering if all of this could be somehow a bad tube. Maybe it is to do with the bias? I might ask someone to look at it
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Have you tried putting any other pedals in the loop? Or just use a jumper cable in between send and return and see if you're having the same problem?
If you're not having this issue when the Loop is ON, but the Decimator is OFF, then I'm worried that the problem may be with the pedal.
Also, I can recommend trying the following setup to rule out the Decimator problem. Guitar - Decimator Guitar IN - Decimator Guitar OUT - Muff - Decimator Dec IN - Decimator Dec OUT - Amp in. And see whether the Decimator works as intended or not.
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I'm going to try putting some green insulation between the three cables going into the right side of the pedal to see if it might be a problem with the cables connecting via the metal jacks touching one another. It seems like a long shot but worth checking out.
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I'm pretty sure the problem was the cables touching one another. I did wrap tape around the ends of the two cables from the loop but I didn't have enough to make much difference. What helped was laying the cables down so that one goes to the front and the other to the back with the centre patch lead vertical so that nothing touches. I'm pretty sure something was short-circuiting due to one at least of the cables not being sufficiently insulated. If you look at the photos they all have metal ends.
I put the Decimator after the overdrive etc. Didn't seem to make much difference, sounded the same either way. The only thing that might be influenced by that is the clean sound. The clean sound with the ISP pedal engaged was not that good. Maybe if I put it straight after the guitar it will be better?
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Have you tried putting any other pedals in the loop? Or just use a jumper cable in between send and return and see if you're having the same problem?
If you're not having this issue when the Loop is ON, but the Decimator is OFF, then I'm worried that the problem may be with the pedal.
The problem is there when the loop is on even without the Decimator on. I haven't tried it with just a patch from send to return yet, that will be my next step, cheers
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Any luck figuring out what the problem was?
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Any luck figuring out what the problem was?
I tried it just now replacing the cables for send and return to the ISP with a simple patch cable joining send and return.
i.e.,
6534+SEND-->DECIMATOR G-STRING-->6534+RETURN
to
6534+SEND-->6534+RETURN
With the long cables to and from the pedal the amp makes a horrible fizzy noise whenever the loop is engaged by the footswitch, whether the pedal is on or not.
With the short patch cable from send to return there is no difference between when the loop is engaged and when it is not.
From this I have to assume that the issue is something to do with either how the cables are routed or the cables themselves. Or, the fact that a 20ft cable either way might need some kind of buffer between send and the pedal? Maybe an EQ pedal? I could try putting the Metal Muff in the loop before the Decimator as I am pretty sure it is not true bypass (it is the early model) and could therefore act as a buffer.
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The Send from the amp is probably buffered.
If it's easy to test the cables themselves I'd do that first.
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I eliminated those leads and connected the Decimator with short patch cables, still the same problem, and if anything becoming worse. I am starting to wonder if my 6534+ has a defective inverter valve in the pre-amp. I connected the Metal Muff in the loop before the Decimator as a buffer and no improvement. The same whether the pedal was on or off. Either the pedal sucks tone and volume both while playing and turned off or there is an issue with the amp.
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I'm a bit lost now. Soz.
forgetting all the pedals...
1. You get gain hiss from the head if your guitar is plugged directly into the front and you get some drip drip noise from somewhere.
2. When the ISP is in the loop only w/ Long Cables, you get a horrible fizz if the loop is engaged whether the ISP is on is off. What if the loop is off? At all threshold levels on the ISP?
3. When the ISP is in the loop w/ Short cables, you get a horrible fizz if the loop is on or off? (no mention of the pedal being on or off itself). If you have a pedal in the loop doing something, then turning the loop on or off should make a difference. In this case if the ISP is actually having a gating effect then I would imagine turning the loop off would increase hiss as the ISP would be bypassed.
It's probably not a bias issue and preamp valves are reasonably tough. Have you researched something in particular that make you think its the PI? Can you post a recording of the drip drip noise? I've heard amps make irregular little pops and noises, but I can't imagine what your describing. The jacks having metal ends at the ISP should only matter if those sockets are isolated internally in some combination. It would be a pretty poor design to have that not be the case and to have jacks at one side create wacky ground loops if they touch.
I'd forget all your pedals and go back to basics. Set it up as per the manual and see how it sounds and take it from there. play around with the dial on the ISP.
Indicently, the 6534 manual says only non-gain effects should be in the loop, which makes total sense.
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1. You get gain hiss from the head if your guitar is plugged directly into the front and you get some drip drip noise from somewhere.
Yes and yes. I've added a filter to the power, which I thought might be the cause of the drip drip sound, but I'm still getting it, although it is sometimes faint. It's possible it's a tube. I can't think of another cause
2. When the ISP is in the loop only w/ Long Cables, you get a horrible fizz if the loop is engaged whether the ISP is on is off. What if the loop is off? At all threshold levels on the ISP?
Yes, I get a fizz and a volume drop, with long cables or short cables whenever the pedal is in the loop, whether the loop is on or off. It happens at all threshold levels and whether the pedal is on or off. When you switch the loop off it stops. The only time it doesn't happen with the loop engaged is if you run a short patch cable from send to return. Then it acts normally, the same as if the loop is switched off.
3. When the ISP is in the loop w/ Short cables, you get a horrible fizz if the loop is on or off? (no mention of the pedal being on or off itself). If you have a pedal in the loop doing something, then turning the loop on or off should make a difference. In this case if the ISP is actually having a gating effect then I would imagine turning the loop off would increase hiss as the ISP would be bypassed.
Yes with short cables too, whenever there is a pedal and the loop is on. When loop is off all is fine. The ISP does reduce noise when engaged but the overall problem of the volume drop and the tone suck is still there whether its on or off.
It's probably not a bias issue and preamp valves are reasonably tough. Have you researched something in particular that make you think its the PI? Can you post a recording of the drip drip noise? I've heard amps make irregular little pops and noises, but I can't imagine what your describing. The jacks having metal ends at the ISP should only matter if those sockets are isolated internally in some combination. It would be a pretty poor design to have that not be the case and to have jacks at one side create wacky ground loops if they touch.
Thanks, I will have to look into all these things. At the moment I am cleaning everything with contact cleaner and will try again after dinner.
I'd forget all your pedals and go back to basics. Set it up as per the manual and see how it sounds and take it from there. play around with the dial on the ISP.
Incidentally, the 6534 manual says only non-gain effects should be in the loop, which makes total sense.
I've been using the gain stuff only before the amp. The only time I put a gain pedal in the loop was with everything set to 12 o'clock and distortion at zero just to see if it would buffer the loop.
Cheers for your help. It's certainly frustrating!
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Ok hmm.
Do you get more hiss if you engage the loop with no pedals or patch lead (straight from send to return) in the loop? It sounds like if you have the loop off you have no additional hiss, then if you turn the loop on you get more hiss, but putting a patch lead from send to return reduces the hiss again. Is that correct?
If you do get more hiss with the loop on and no pedals in it, how much more hiss is there? A little? Or lots!
My thoughts are...
Is the ISP true bypass? If not, it would always have some suck to it whether it's on or off depending on the design of the buffer in the pedal. I can't find any info to say it IS true bypass, which is unusual since it's normally used a marketting point with other devices. I'm wondering if this explains the reason why having the pedal on or off makes no difference to the volume drop. I assume the pedal does gate the hiss when it's on though?
Secondly. If the pedal is working as a gate while in the loop and actually cutting the signal going into it from going out again (say you have it in a really brutal cut off threshold for instant silence) then it's probably fair to say additional hiss is probably getting into or after the pedal. If turning the loop on with no pedals in and no patch lead also adds the same noise I'd suggest it isn't the pedal adding the noise, I'd suspect something in the return end of the loop. If however, putting a patch lead in the send and return stops that noise then that seems odd. Send and Return jacks with nothing in tend to connect to each other internally when not used, so adding a single patch lead normally doesn't rule anything out other than the jacks sockets themselves.
After your FX return, the signal won't go directly to the PI valve. The loop valve with be split into two with one triode driving the send jack and one acting as a return stage (after the return jack) to drive the signal from your effects into the PI. The loop bypass function might cut out this whole valve (two stages). Some additional hiss could be expected from engaging the loop if this is the case as youre adding two stages to the preamp, but why a patch lead would reduce that hiss I don't know.
EDIT: I'm guessing this loop config is the case based on the amount of preamp valves and the 5150/5150II schem. I'm guessing there isn't any or not much solid state in the loop. I don't have a 6534+ schem.
2. When the ISP is in the loop only w/ Long Cables, you get a horrible fizz if the loop is engaged whether the ISP is on is off. What if the loop is off? At all threshold levels on the ISP?
Yes, I get a fizz and a volume drop, with long cables or short cables whenever the pedal is in the loop, whether the loop is on or off. It happens at all threshold levels and whether the pedal is on or off. When you switch the loop off it stops. The only time it doesn't happen with the loop engaged is if you run a short patch cable from send to return. Then it acts normally, the same as if the loop is switched off.
I guess this is an error and you mean wether the pedal is on or off not loop?
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I meant the loop being on or off with the effects button on the footswitch.
Anyway I went over to the Marshall forum as part of my searches for people who have had similar problems with an ISP Decimator G-String and I found this interesting bit of information:
According to ISP Technologies technical support --->
The G-string was never intended to run on batteries. The battery in it is there for test purposes only. It won't last a set, let alone a gig. Use an AC adapter
This, together with your suggestion that the pedal is not true bypass, made me think that the fact that it keeps getting worse (even though the pedal seems to be working in terms of noise reduction) means that the issue might be a battery going flat.
Seems like this pedal REALLY chews through batteries. So I cleaned all the contacts - including on the footswitch jacks - and installed a brand-new 9V battery. It's working okay now, but I'm guessing not for long. I will have to get a 9V adapter but I really want to get a proper pedalboard rather than getting a heap of individual 9V adapters.
This battery issue combined with the fact that it is not true bypass would explain (1) why the problem kept getting worse & (2) why it happened whenever the pedal was in the chain, even if it was turned off.
The drip drip noise is another issue. It didn't do it tonight but it has been doing it most days long before I got the loop set up. It seems to be better or worse at different times of day. It might be a tube going microphonic. I should call my dealer as the tubes are still under warranty.
Cheers for all your help. I was pretty lost as to what the cause was. I don't have a 9V adapter so I didn't test that out.
One good thing about it is that I just kept playing pentatonic scales listening to the amp while making small turns to the pickup height on my Nailbomb and finally found that sweet spot I'd been looking for (I also raised the pole pieces quite a lot). I got the Cold Sweat set up pretty well too, with the pole pieces up one half turn. Generally it sounds pretty good now, although obviously the amp could do with some EQ changes for different styles I just hammered through various riffs with the existing settings in clean, crunch, and lead modes. A bit of old Priest, some Sabbath, some AC/DC, some Rose Tattoo, some Iron Maiden, and some Accept. 8)
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I had a DigiTech delay a few years back which ate batteries. You could get about 20 minutes out of it tops.
If you're looking into a power supply, I highly recommend the T-Rex ones. I've got one of the small ones and it really is bombproof! I used to use a cheapo one for years that was really noisy and dodgy. Its really worth investing in one, like a decent tuner pedal, they last forever!
Paddy
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I know a fair few people who have had issues with the 5150 loop. I belive its 0dB rather than +4dB or -10dB like normal.
The g-major has terrible issues with hum and hiss when used with the 5150 loop even tc electronics advise that its best to run the guitar into the g major then the g major send into the front of the amp which is barely standard procedure.
This could be whats causing your issues. I know a guy with a few amps including a 5150 that uses a decimator g string ill check if he had any issues with it.
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I did see someone recommend as a last resort placing the G-string first in the chain and then all the noisy pedals after it (e.g., overdrive, distortion) and then into the DEC IN and out the DEC OUT on the G-String again before the amp. This is only one small step up from the standard Decimator in front of the amp and hardly worth the extra $100+ just for that tracking feature if it doesn't handle the pre-amp hiss as well (as placement in the loop should). In any case mine seems to working okay until the battery wears down (which doesn't take long at all). I will probably just put it aside until I can get a powered board, as $10 an hour for batteries is not so cool.
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I did see someone recommend as a last resort placing the G-string first in the chain and then all the noisy pedals after it (e.g., overdrive, distortion) and then into the DEC IN and out the DEC OUT on the G-String again before the amp. This is only one small step up from the standard Decimator in front of the amp and hardly worth the extra $100+ just for that tracking feature if it doesn't handle the pre-amp hiss as well (as placement in the loop should). In any case mine seems to working okay until the battery wears down (which doesn't take long at all). I will probably just put it aside until I can get a powered board, as $10 an hour for batteries is not so cool.
Well thats normal. I have a reverb pedal that as soon as the voltage drops below 7v just starts to hizz and fuzz the sound up. And that only takes about 5 minutes. Some pedals pull a lot of power.
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If you're looking into a power supply, I highly recommend the T-Rex ones. I've got one of the small ones and it really is bombproof! I used to use a cheapo one for years that was really noisy and dodgy. Its really worth investing in one, like a decent tuner pedal, they last forever!
Paddy
Cheers, I'm looking at getting a T-Rex Chameleon, is this the model you have? At the moment I'm not using my ISP pedal as it goes through batteries too fast. I'd like to hook up an MXR 10 band EQ in the effects loop so I like the 18V capability on the Chameleon. Even though it only has five usable outputs at any given time the mA rating for each output is high so I guess you can daisy chain them, although I wonder how much depends on the quality of the leads and lead placement in the daisy chain in terms of any noise that it might introduce. I had a look at this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgJLx3cL9JQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgJLx3cL9JQ)
Most of my pedals are low in mA and go before the amp so could be daisy-chained like on that board. The tuner for example is quite happy running on batteries and the battery in the Maxon OD-9 seems to last a good while. The Metal Muff does chew batteries but I'm thinking of replacing it with a 6-band EQ.
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The T-Rex Chameleon arrived today and has made a big difference. My rig is now noiseless with tube screamer engaged on the lead channel with plenty of gain and the ISP pedal set at 12 o'clock.
The Metal Muff though is not so great as an EQ pedal. Hopefully I will find someone here in Adelaide who wants to swap an EQ pedal (e.g., Boss 7-band or MXR 6-band) for it. It is fine as a distortion pedal but with a Peavey 6534+ you don't need any distortion besides what you can get from the amp or by overdriving the amp via boost pedals (e.g., OD-9 with drive on 0) or an EQ before the pre-amp.
I just have my pedals set out like this at the moment. Later I want to add some EQs, a wah, and a delay. There are a lot more cables in the T-Rex box that I am not using at the moment, including a daisy chain.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2yk0uop.jpg)
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I just ordered a Dunlop DB-01 Cry Baby From Hell Wah pedal from the USA via ebay, and I am wondering if I should set up my chain as follows when it arrives:
GUITAR-->TUNER-->WAH-->ISP GUITAR IN/OUT-->OD-9-->[EQ?]-->6534+ INPUT-->ISP DEC IN/OUT LOOP SEND-->[EQ?]-->[DELAY?]-->[REVERB?]-->6534+ LOOP RETURN
I don't have any EQs, reverbs, or delays as yet but I am wondering if they would go in the places indicated? Maybe the delay and reverb positions should be reversed? Anyway the TC Polytune tuner is a good thing to put first, as it cuts output signal altogether when in use, and I'm thinking the wah should probably go at the far right of the board where there's likely to be more room (I haven't made a board yet)
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UGH. This pedal is really straining my patience. Tonight the amp seems extra noisy and the pedal doesn't seem to be making any difference. It was working fine yesterday when I turned it off.
Not sure what's the issue. I'm hoping that the effects loop hasn't done something to pop a diode in the pedal. I guess I could have a look inside but I'd have to find out the procedure for discharging any voltage inside the pedal first.
It really has been a pain in the @ss!
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The signal from the amp won't have broken it. If anything goes in pedals to stop them working it's usually that someone has put a wrong polarity power supply into it by using the wrong power supply cable or something. some pedals have protection against that happening. Other will just stop working at all.
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It still has power to it, so I'm guessing there was no problem with the polarity, and it worked properly on the power supply yesterday.
Actually after this problem arose I removed the batteries from all my pedals and then plugged them into the T-Rex Fuel Tank again, so that they could only be running on that and no power could be coming from a bad battery. The rig sounded exactly the same.
I thought about the loop blowing it as I saw that someone had a problem with the loop in a Marshall blowing a diode in one of these pedals. Thing is she replaced her Marshall with a 5150II (which I assume has the same loop circuit mine has) and she's had no issues with that.
Anyway here's that conversation as it has some useful info in it for anyone using these pedals.
DO NOT USE A 9 volt Battery. It eats them like some people eat pizza and burps afterward. You need to use your 9 volt power supply. Open up the G-string battery compartment when you get it and remove the battery -- it's only there for test purposes.
Don't worry about the buffered bypass. It's an always on thing. Adjust the threshold so that your hum, hiss, and high gain squealies just stop when you mute the strings. Too high and you'll kill your sustain. I run mine at 11:30 with a 5150 II on the Lead Channel. If you're higher than that and start complaining Smiley It should not at all kill your sustain.
The FX loop signal out of the Marshall was too hot @ the - 10 dbv setting, and that popped a diode on it once causing the entire signal chain to fail. I called ISP Tech support and they sent me a return barcode for UPS. I had a brand new unit in a week.
I'm sure if Boss pedals weren't built as well as they are they would have been destroyed too. My MXR EQ used to flash due to signal clipping.
http://www.guitarists.net/guitar_forum/view_bb.php?forum=6&thread=88861 (http://www.guitarists.net/guitar_forum/view_bb.php?forum=6&thread=88861)
Anyway, cheers for all your help
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I'd better add a post here to say that it is all non-problematic now.
The drip drip noise is a bad earth somewhere in the house. It isn't there when I use the amp elsewhere.
The T-Rex power supply works brilliantly.
No problems with the G-String pedal now.
I use it the following way:
GUITAR -> WAH -> TUNER -> ISP GUITAR IN/OUT -> FRONT END PEDALS (dirt, compressor, etc) - > AMP INPUT -> EFFECTS LOOP SEND -> EQ -> ISP DEC IN/OUT -> FLANGER/CHORUS/DELAY/REVERB -> EFFECTS LOOP RETURN
All sweet. Great pedal. Don't use batteries!!!
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TLDR
afaik ISP recommends using their products at the end of a gain pedal chain
http://www.isptechnologies.com/manuals/Decimator%20II%20G%20String%20Manual.pdf
(http://www.isptechnologies.com/manuals/Decimator%20II%20G%20String%20Manual.pdf)
You should go guitar > tuner > od9 > muff > decimator > amp input > amp send > decimator loop > time based effects (for future reference) > amp return
Don't understand the bit where it says "For best performance place all gain pedals in front of the amplifier and DEC IN." If i'm using a tubescreamer, where does it go out to? The send of the amp or the front? Guitar in is pretty clear, but is it i like the X shape of an NS-2 layout?
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When it says 'place the decimator' somewhere, in the case of the G-String that refers to the DEC IN/OUT jacks. The GUITAR IN/OUT part should go as far forward in the signal chain as possible. I like it just after the tuner, as I found that I was getting some funny noises while I tuned with it after, but I have it at the front, after the wah and the tuner, and the only reason the wah is right at the front is because it is easier to plug the guitar cable into the side of the wah pedal when everything is on the board if you are a right-handed guitarist like me. The DEC IN/OUT should go after all of the things that create distortion and noise but before the modulation and time based effects. If you have a noisy chorus pedal that kind of sucks, but otherwise you chop the chorus effect off.
With a high-gain amp like a Peavey 6065 series amp it should always be placed in the effects loop. If you have an EQ pedal in the effects loop I'd recommend putting that before the ISP too.
Easiest way for you to set it up (if you have a simple set up) is as follows:
GUITAR -> TUNER ->ISP GUITAR IN/OUT -> TUBESCREAMER -> PREAMP -> EQ -> ISP DEC IN/OUT -> DELAY -> POWERAMP
You know that the loop is between the preampp and the poweramp, right? With that in mind the diagram above should be pretty simple. When your pedal arrives plug it in that way. It should put a smile on your face. Just remember to use a power supply otherwise that smile will disappear in around 20 minutes when the tone starts to suck big time with the loop on and you can't work out why
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Lol i have a T-rex fuel tank junior so no worries about power supply there!
So as an idiot check, these are the pedals i have: Boss TU-2, Line 6 Relay G50 Wireless receiver, Ibanez Tubescreamer and the ISP obviously. I don't use choruses/delays which probably makes it easier.
So..Guitar goes from wireless receiver into tuner. Tuner goes into Guitar In on ISP. Gtr Out goes into Tubescreamer? Out of tubescreamer into send of the amp?
Gtr out into front of amp, dec out into return?
This should cut out pre-amp noise, i would hope?
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Line 6 Relay G50 Wireless receiver ->Boss TU-2 -> ISP GUITAR IN/OUT -> Ibanez Tubescreamer -> PREAMP -> ISP DEC IN/OUT -> POWERAMP
So everything in the front-end (before amp) with a cable from the Peavey effects loop send to the ISP dec in and then another cable from the ISP dec out to the Peavey effects loop return.
I wish my setup was this simple!
Seems like you spent all your money on the wireless. You must jump around a lot
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Preamp is the front of the amp yes? I just noticed there's a "PRE-AMP OUT" input at the back of the head.
Power amp is?
I like the 'less is more approach' haha.
Reason why i'm checking is i've just tried the 'X configuration' with my NS-2. Totally useless. No noise reduction and I've just spent an hour working out different combinations. I've probably plugged one of the cables into the wrong input but yeah i lost patience with it very quickly haha.
Definitely getting the ISP now! I've ordered today and chosen express delivery cos I need it for 25th!
And yes apart from my 6505+ head the wireless was a worthy investment, i like to run around and cross sides of the stage with my band members!
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*UPDATE*
Tried the X configuration again with the Boss NS-2, i realised last time i didn't step on the effects button on the footswitch! Cuts out pre-amp noise very well now it works properly, but i noticed when i was playing the volume dropped low at certain points, i'm hoping this is something to do with the pedal and not the amp or anything else. The ISP Decimator G string is on its way and I sincerely pray it slots into my set up like a dream, no amp noise, pure tone.
Anyone else had experiences with volume drops or even popping noises when you change channel? I experienced this also when plugging in another guitar.
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You might have the threshold set too high. I'm assuming it has an adjustment. This is most likely. A noise reduction unit will clamp the sound if too high. You just want to eliminate the noise floor.
Otherwise there might be an issue with the loop, but that is usually an all the time thing. You are not running batteries, right?
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Possibly, I had it on 12 o'clock to start, then rolled it back down to 10. Still the same issue. Clicked it off and i had the annoying hiss/hum/durrrr sounds but no volume loss.
Hoping the ISP won't do that if i set it properly.
And no i had it in the T-rex fuel tank junior so no issue with power!
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Could be an issue with the pedal.
When you get the ISP you should find that you can set it around 11.30 or noon.
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I suspect so cos when i clicked it off there was consistent volume levels.
I like how the ISP is just one knob, no nonsense!
It shouldn't interfere with any tone should it? I noticed some top end loss with the NS-2 hence why i don't like using it. Was just mucking about with my amp and guitars trying to figure out if i'm using stuff properly.
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You'll find out soon enough when it arrives.
I haven't experienced anything with mine when it is set properly, although if you go to cleans you might notice it doesn't ring out quite as long as it would with it off. If that bothers you just click it of when you go to cleans, as you won't need it then really anyway. Personally I just leave it on
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I don't use cleans in this band, i have a crunchy clean sound which i expect to be less noisy but the new Aftermath pickup i installed has tons of sustain so i don't think i'd need to click it off, hope not cos i am already clicking off a tubescreamer, it'll be a mini-tap-dance haha.
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The Decimator arrived earlier today:
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2631/g2sh.jpg)
Built like a brick, quite heavy when i first opened the box!
Slots into my pedalboard set up nicely and i got all the connections right:
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1874/5ay8.jpg)
This pedal is AMAZING! No noise coming from the pre-amp, all the hum, hiss and derrr sounds are non-existent! Well worth the money spent and very impressed with how quick it arrived from America, i ordered it on the 8th.
Have tried playing with the ISP clicked on and off and there's no real difference to tone, no volume drops and stop start chugging riffs are nice and tight.
The dial is on about 11 o'clock as Agent Orange suggested i think, if i use more pre-amp gain i whack it up to 12 or 1 and it seems to kill noise nicely.
Very happy with this and the NS-2 can go f**k off haha.
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See I told you it would kill the fizzies! It's just a matter of connecting it right and having a constant source of 9V. I pulled the rubber foot off of mine, cleaned it with some white spirit underneath to remove the glue and then stuck velcro to the metal plate. Although I think it did come with some small pieces of velcro I lost those in the months between buying the pedal and setting up a board.
If you expand on your board at all just keep in mind the principle of time-based effects after the ISP. You can put other effects in the loop before it. For example, if you had an EQ and a delay you would put the EQ before the DEC IN and the delay after the DEC OUT. It's all quite simple when you have it in your hands and can visualize everything in 3D
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Yeah mate! Well worth the money and the wait!
Why did you get rid of the rubber foot? Are you talking about the stomp area or the bit on the bottom of the pedal?
I might actually have to keep my NS-2 cos in band practice tonight i had lots of feedback from the newly installed pickups, the amp i use in there isn't actually that noisy, its coming from the guitar so i may just use the NS-2 in practices. Makes stop start chugging a bit cleaner.
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The rubber underneath, just because when rubber warms up the velcro can peel off. While your velcro is still sticking I wouldn't worry about it. Like I said I lost those two pieces of velcro that came with it, so I used one long wide strip of velcro that came with my Pedaltrain. Pedaltrain advice removing feet from the bottom of pedals before using velcro
I'm glad that it's worked out for you, and also that you have very sensibly placed the pedal where it can protect that cable going into the back of your Peavey footswitch. If your vocalist is jumping around the place the worst that's going to happen is that he'll turn the ISP off. Those things are built like a brick (although I'd probably be more worried about him stepping on the wireless!)
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Hmm didn't think of that, sometimes the pedal won't stick properly to the board which is rather annoying, but i have a tendency to move stuff around so i don't want it on there fully permanently.
Yeah the footswitch actually has a dodgy connector which is why you can see in the photo its a bit wonky, this happened to the guy who sold it to me, someone must've stepped on it and yanked it loose! He was covered by warranty though so I'm getting a new one sent to me, they don't look cheap to replace!
I don't think he'd be that manic to turn it off haha, depends on the size of the stage we play on, usually he stays fairly central and goes out into the audience. Someone did kick one of the antenna's on the wireless receiver however, so i had to get a replacement, its so fragile!!
And yes I do like how sturdy they are, not that will need to turn it on/off that much during the set.
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That's why I have the hook velcro (the grabby one) on the board and the loop velcro (the softer one) on my pedals. If I want to remove them it seems to be easier, and I can even sit them on the carpet and I don't notice the difference from having the foot. Where you notice not having the foot is if you sit the pedal directly on a hard floor. It will slide around whereas a foot will grip a smooth floor more.
The only real problems I've had have been when I've tried to stick velcro to rubber. As I said before, when it warms up the velcro backing starts to loose its grip on rubber. It sticks much better to metal or plastic
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Hmm i might consider that, i just want pedals that will live in the case for the band stuff and anything else i swap in and out not to permanent.
I guess it survived a tour with them being in place so I'm sure a few gigs a month it'll be alright for now!
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Right, so i had my first gig using this last night, it does cut out pre-amp noise very well, however i experienced a bit of feedback from my pickup, which made stop/start riffing a little bit squeaky, also if the dirty channel is kicked on and i move my hands off the strings or stand in a certain position it will squeal a bit. The threshold knob is on 12 o'clock and sometimes 1 o'clock but i find it cuts off the note sustain esp if doing pinch harmonics. Do i need another suppressor after my guitar to stop it, or is it just a case of controlling the feedback via the guitar?
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You need a noise gate and the isp decimator and isnt a noise gate its a noise reducer as ive said before its not worth the cash or its reputation hence why I sold mine. The boss does both but supposedly the problem is it 'sucks tone' which is debatable and the isp is definitely as transparent as you can get
In all seriousness though I use 2 x NS2's. One in the x pattern to get rid of all hum and pre amp noise and pedal noise and one set to maximum for high gain setting on my amp. No noise at all at gigging, practising or recording volumes and I have a 5150 iii amp with the gain maxed and presence high AND a boss od-3 switched on sometimes.
Also if you havent considered it dont mix and match cable brands this is recent discovery of mine which has eliminated noise (Although the ns2 would have sorted it but why do that to your singal anyway....).
Maybe you could use the isp to get rid of pre amp noise etc itll work great for that but use the boss for an actual noise gate.
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There's not much between his guitar and amp though, just a wireless receiver, a tuner, and a screamer. I have a great big 'spaceship' of a board with all kinds of bells and whistles and I don't have that issue. Unless it's in the wireless (which I doubt) I'm guessing it's being generated in the guitar and needs to be tackled there.
I have a friend who plays an old 5150 II with NO pedals at all and he doesn't complain about uncontrollable feedback, although he can get a Hellhammer impression pretty easily if he wants to let it feed back.
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Thats what I mean the decimator would sort out pedal noise easily and any hissing noises but its the guitar and amp which will be the problem for that loud ringing in between notes that's where a gate comes in.
Ive always played very loud and whilst I was playing thrash I never even used a noise gate but that must have been because I was playing so fast all the time theres no time for feeback but when youre not going mental all the time I guess that's where the squeals come in and in my last band which was brief was a brief experience the music rythm wise was much slower and feedback was a problem but forleads which were faster it was fine.
If you dont have any thing in your loop sounds like an ns2 at the start and a decimator at the end would be perfect but of course experiment as there arent any rules. Youll also find you wont have to set your decimator so high just to cut down on pedal/preamp noise.
I actually took the plunge with 2 noise gates after seeing bullet for my valentine use 2 boss ns2's (Shudders at BMFV but decent guitar tone for an emo band) and Misha Monsoor uses 3 noise gates an ns2, decimiator and one built into his amp.
I just use a guitar, amp, overdrive pedal, delay pedal and 2 noise gates.
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Try the NS2 - you have one, right? - in the x-pattern with your screamer in front of your amp and leave the rest how it currently is. If JimmyMoorby's theory is right that should fix it. Unless you have expanded your set up that's all you should need to include in the loop.
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Try the NS2 - you have one, right? - in the x-pattern with your screamer in front of your amp and leave the rest how it currently is. If JimmyMoorby's theory is right that should fix it. Unless you have expanded your set up that's all you should need to include in the loop.
Actually thats not what what I was saying but it could work but it didnt work for me and ill explain why.
The first one in the x pattern isnt set that high thats just to cut down on hiss and maybe a little feedback. I did what youre suggesting at a live recording and it kept fading in and out BUT THIS MAY be because the noise gate was trying to gate the delay effect which is the only effect in my loop and it made my overall volume fade the in and out. Again though that could have been down to the delay.
If youre in a position to set the boss ns2 to max setting in the x pattern you may get great resuts but my set up is different to yours.
So to be clear.
First NS2 in x pattern set low straight with a guitar straight into it and linked in with fx loop. Then continuing on from the first NS2 in the chain to the front of the amp the overdrive pedal and then Boss NS2 set to the max to cut down on guitar and amp feedback and the overdrive noise. Id suggest for the 2nd noise gate threshold at least at 3 o block and decay between 6 and 10 o clock to taste.
Hope this is clear!
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I'm wondering if in CommonCourtesy's set up - retaining the the ISP as the noise reduction for the preamp - if simply placing the NS2 in the loop after the ISP would do the trick. There is no delay in his set up, but I guess it could just be placed between the NS2 and the send return if one was added.
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Try the NS2 - you have one, right? - in the x-pattern with your screamer in front of your amp and leave the rest how it currently is. If JimmyMoorby's theory is right that should fix it. Unless you have expanded your set up that's all you should need to include in the loop.
Yes I still have it, was going to sell it cos i thought it sucked tone. If its the X pattern, does that mean another 4 cables? I already have 3 running from my board!
And if its first in the chain straight from guitar i guess this is to cut out the noise from the pickup.
I have seen Matt Tuck's rig rundown and he uses 2 NS-2's either side of a tubescreamer.
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Try the NS2 - you have one, right? - in the x-pattern with your screamer in front of your amp and leave the rest how it currently is. If JimmyMoorby's theory is right that should fix it. Unless you have expanded your set up that's all you should need to include in the loop.
Yes I still have it, was going to sell it cos i thought it sucked tone. If its the X pattern, does that mean another 4 cables? I already have 3 running from my board!
And if its first in the chain straight from guitar i guess this is to cut out the noise from the pickup.
I have seen Matt Tuck's rig rundown and he uses 2 NS-2's either side of a tubescreamer.
Thats what I was saying. You dont have to run either in the x pattern but it works better for me try it the way matt tuck does it first and hopefully thatll work but if not try the experimenting with the x pattern and different settings if you can get away with less cables then thats better
If 2 noise gates dont work with your setup then some thing is knackered so what im saying is it will work!
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Right i see, so in between pedals and not via the effects loop. For band practices i use a Marshall amp which is kept at the rehearsal place. I use a Wampler Triple Wreck distortion for that, and i get loads of noise from the pick up. So i tried using an NS-2 straight after the guitar and it seemed to fix it.
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Right i see, so in between pedals and not via the effects loop. For band practices i use a Marshall amp which is kept at the rehearsal place. I use a Wampler Triple Wreck distortion for that, and i get loads of noise from the pick up. So i tried using an NS-2 straight after the guitar and it seemed to fix it.
Do you use any thing in the loop?
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As in time based effects? No, i don't. No choruses or delays.
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As in time based effects? No, i don't. No choruses or delays.
As in any thing really every thing you put between your amp and guitar is taking away from your tone but if youve got nothing at all in your loop then hopefully you wont even need to use the x pattern but if you do its not the end of the world feedback in the way youre describing in very annoying and I hate it!
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So you mean right after the guitar?
I found that if i press down on the strings with my right hand and mute with my left it stops the feedback. Tricky when stop start riffing though.
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Ok first noise gate immediately after guitar. Set the threshold between 3 or 6 o clock and alter the the decay knob to taste *
Then im assuming your overdrive is next.
Second noise gate set threshold to max and decay to minimum.
* You can also run the first noise gate in the x pattern and play about with the setting on this one a bit more but in need be max it out too.
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To get the ISP working properly you will still need to plug its GUITAR IN and GUITAR OUT jacks in as far ahead in the chain (e.g. after the tuner) as you can. Then plug in the DEC IN and DEC OUT (which is the actual gate) where JimmyMoorby says to put the 'second noise gate'
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Ok first noise gate immediately after guitar. Set the threshold between 3 or 6 o clock and alter the the decay knob to taste *
Then im assuming your overdrive is next.
Second noise gate set threshold to max and decay to minimum.
* You can also run the first noise gate in the x pattern and play about with the setting on this one a bit more but in need be max it out too.
Yeah this would go after the wireless receiver and tuner. The tubescreamer is the only effect in the chain.
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To get the ISP working properly you will still need to plug its GUITAR IN and GUITAR OUT jacks in as far ahead in the chain (e.g. after the tuner) as you can. Then plug in the DEC IN and DEC OUT (which is the actual gate) where JimmyMoorby says to put the 'second noise gate'
So 2 more patch leads and another slot on the board? I can't see where its going to fit!!
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Well I'm not there to set it up for you so you'll have to work it out for yourself ... a suck it and see approach ... I'd probably take everything off the board and move them around on the floor before making any mods to the board set up
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My apologies for resurrecting this old thread but I figure this video might make using this pedal a little less confusing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpnYrVlxpoQ
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Lol I remember this, took me a while to figure out how to use it properly for my needs!
I wasn't using it properly at the beginning, or I don't think I was anyway. I originally had it in the FX loop of the amp to kill the noisy pre-amp noise, but I decide to have the lead channel modded so its silent. I noticed the problem was actually my Tubescreamer pedal making excess noise when kicked on so put that in the loop of the ISP. Now its more controllable without sacrificing gain on the amp and pedal. Works well, the ISP G-string version is very smart indeed!