Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: littleredguitars2 on August 12, 2013, 02:54:33 PM
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i've been an avid seymour duncan user for years, more specifically the Invader model. and while i really enjoy it, i want something with a little bit more crunch, and something with more clarity. i emailed tim a while back to see what he suggested and he personally thought a rebel yell might suit my needs but i'm just looking to see what the community might think. i've done so much research on different models that honestly, so many of them sound appealing. i'm looking right now for just a bridge humbucker. i play mostly rock/ pop punk. but i want to be able to play some heavier stuff too if i want. so i guess i'm just looking for something with high output but has a good crunch still. i dont do much for solos. i'm more interested in something that will make my chords sound a bit livelier. i dont want to just take the heaviest sounding pickup because i'm afraid it would really sound organic enough anymore. anyways.. enough rambling. here is my set up
humbucker only fender strat
mesa boogie dual rectifier roadster
orange ppc212c
thank you so much to anyone who can help me.
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Or the punchy, bright yet balanced with good mids and lowend VHII, which has quite some output, nearly on par with the Crawler in my other strat.
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yeah the vhii looked good but i wasnt sure how heavy it could get
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Certainly enough oomph for rock and poppunk.
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so i think i decided i want to lean more towards a classic/power metal tone with this guitar. since most of my other guitars are good for the pop punk type stuff. basically in my alder/maple/rosewood fender mexi strat i want to have a great "brown sound" but i want it to really have a lot of life and be really good with those pinch harmonics. i'm definitely looking for something thats hot. i've heard clips with the crawler and the vhii and i'm just not sure they will be as hot as i'm looking for. i've been hearing good things about the holy diver and miracle man though... thoughts?
by the way, the sort of tones i'm leaning towards are like some of the late 90s Hammerfall type tones if anyones familiar with them. i'll post a link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzNZU8HFnGU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzNZU8HFnGU)
as you can hear, its got some great crunch but really sings in those solos.
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Well I have a bit of experience with the brown sound and a few pickups, so I'm going to say some things
1) You DON'T need a high output pickup with a Mesa Boogie Roadster. The amp has more than enough gain for almost any aplication, even if you use single coils. So choose your pickup by the tone and not output.
2) You WON'T get any closer to the brown sound without a MARSHALL and a 4x12 with GREENBACKS. PERIOD.
3) The VHII is WAY more versatile than only early VH tones, and it has lots of gain even being a "vintage hot" pup, it saturates an amp really well, pairing with other contemporary pickups such as the DSD (another good option for brown tones) and so... I own one and I can say. I used to run it through a Orange ppc 2x12 and a MEsa Mark III, and the tone was MASSIVE. I could play everything from blues (in the clean/crunch channel) to Dream Theater with the same guitar with only a tube screamer in the front, and it was not because of the lack of gain, but to tight up the bass a bit. The VHII has a huge bass response and has lots of punch too.
I wound't get a Crawler because of its low mids, maybe it's not going to pair with the Mesa as it has TONS of it too.. maybe it can sound a bit muddy in that region even thoug BKPs are clear and defined, the crawler has a vintage voicing low end that is a bit loose. I think the RY and the VHII are nice options for a one humbucker guitar.
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Pretty sure the easiest way to get a power metal sound would be something like a Holydiver into a Marshall. From what I hear the Rebel Yell seems like a good option to get you those Hammerfall tones, they seem like they're a little brighter and more high-mid focused.
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Thank you both for the responses. they helped a lot. My search is definitely narrowing down.
Another quick thing. If I was going to make it an HSS, which would bemy best best for something that won't sound twangy? I haven't don much research on the single coils
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I think the range VHII - Holy Diver/Nailbomb are the ones you're looking at. Probably the Rebel Yell is a very good recommendation after all.
I play some Hammerfall and the Nailbomb and EMG 81- equipped guitars that i have nail the rhythm sounds quite well, but the lead sounds probably could to with something a bit "sweeter". I would think that the Holy Diver (which I had) would be a bit closer, and I would suspect the same of the Rebel Yell (which I've never had). Hammerfall's sound isn't too tight on the low end, they've got a quite healthy and natural low end punch going on, which is of course also partly the ENGLs that they use (I think they use a Special SE EL34 mixed with a Savage a lot).
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Thank you both for the responses. they helped a lot. My search is definitely narrowing down.
Another quick thing. If I was going to make it an HSS, which would bemy best best for something that won't sound twangy? I haven't don much research on the single coils
Dependes what bridge pu you're going for, because you need to balance the outputs... But if you go for the VHII or Rebell Yell , I'd say get the Irish Tours middle and neck pups... The Slow Hands aren't that twangy, they have focused mids and are a bit darker. On the vintage side, I really dig the apaches, but I'm afraid you may lose too much output when changing pickups...
If you're going for a darker pickup (like the Crawler or Holydiver) I'd take a look over the trilogy suit, but again, they are more modern sounding pu's, think of final era Blackmore or malmsteen tones, it's not something TWAAANGY but they are still single coils.... Maybe the Holydiver can match outputs with the slowhands if you use them a bit far from the strings though....
There's a few recomendations for HSS sets at the BKP site, check'em out.
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Thank you both for the responses. they helped a lot. My search is definitely narrowing down.
Another quick thing. If I was going to make it an HSS, which would bemy best best for something that won't sound twangy? I haven't don much research on the single coils
Dependes what bridge pu you're going for, because you need to balance the outputs... But if you go for the VHII or Rebell Yell , I'd say get the Irish Tours middle and neck pups... The Slow Hands aren't that twangy, they have focused mids and are a bit darker. On the vintage side, I really dig the apaches, but I'm afraid you may lose too much output when changing pickups...
I can really recommend the Irish Tours. Take a classic SC, add some mids, dirt and power, generally just making it bigger and meaner and you got the IT. One step up again is the Slowhand.
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Thank you both for the responses. they helped a lot. My search is definitely narrowing down.
Another quick thing. If I was going to make it an HSS, which would bemy best best for something that won't sound twangy? I haven't don much research on the single coils
Dependes what bridge pu you're going for, because you need to balance the outputs... But if you go for the VHII or Rebell Yell , I'd say get the Irish Tours middle and neck pups... The Slow Hands aren't that twangy, they have focused mids and are a bit darker. On the vintage side, I really dig the apaches, but I'm afraid you may lose too much output when changing pickups...
I can really recommend the Irish Tours. Take a classic SC, add some mids, dirt and power, generally just making it bigger and meaner and you got the IT. One step up again is the Slowhand.
This
Plus that a VHII might fit a bolt-on strat a bit better then the RY, which might be a bit bright.
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Yeah it may be in my best interest to go with a darker pickup. I never realised that the seymour duncan invaders I've been using for years were so low and mid focused because of how much the rest of the guitar brightens it up. The website lists the Low/mid/treb at 7/8/4 and I never would've guessed that. Personally I think I'm leaning towards either a VHII HSS setup or a holy diver HSS with whichever single coils come recommended.
Someone probably said this already but how does the miracle man compare to the holy diver?
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The VHII isn't dark, it has a good balance with the right amount of bass and mids, just the highs are pronounced but in a pleasant way. Not shrill at all. With the Mesa you don't need anything hotter, I think.
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At this point I'm ready to just take a chance on any of the ones that you guys have mentioned. I really don't think I'll go wrong with any of them as long as I don't get one that has too much high end. Plus I could always throw it on ebay if I don't end up lovin it.
Thanks everyone for the replies. You guys are very helpful
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I have a couple of the HSS sets you are looking at, VHII with Irish Tours in a Alder/Rosewood strat, which is a great combination for classic rock tones and can get into the metal territory with the VHII (and some pedals!). I also have a Holy Diver with Trilogies, which is my heavy rock sound. I have this in a swamp ash/flame maple & ebony neck, with a half scalloped fingerboard, which will definitely get you the HammerFall tones.
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funny enough i just decided on the holy diver/trilogy suite HSS and i really think it will get me what i want. so thats great timing on your response.
i do have a question though. whats the main difference between the 50mm and 53mm spacing? i assumed that since i was putting it in a hardtail guitar, id want a 50 but i saw that the HSS sets come default at 53mm.
thats pretty much the only question i have at this point.
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The wider spacing is for the US made Strat bridge and the narrower spacing is for the Japanese bridge. Gibson had the narrower spacing, so all old HSS mods had that on Fender bridges. It was only when F-Spacing came in that we got the wider spread. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't make a difference, I used a Strat with a Gibson HB in the bridge position for many years and it never bothered me (look at EVH's guitar too, it has an old Gibson hb). I think it is more an aesthetic thing, if you want to center the strings on the pole pieces.
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Thanks. That definitely helps.
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funny enough i just decided on the holy diver/trilogy suite HSS and i really think it will get me what i want. so thats great timing on your response.
That's a good, beefy, modern sounding set for a strat. Let us know if you like them.
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The Holydiver is a great choice. My favourite BKP for some very good reasons and Trilogy Suites will go well with it. Congratulations and remember to post us a detailed review.
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thanks for all your help guys! i'll definitely follow up with a review. probably with a video on my youtube channel. i just need some help with a few last things. i've never really done much with strats with more than one humbucker so i'm not sure what i will need for pots and stuff. i assume i'll need a 500k volume pot but do i need the same ones for the tone ?
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I strongly recommend you getting some BKP 550k pots. You can use the same ones for volume and tone. You should also look into the Jensen/BKP 0.022 capacitor to go with them. These accessories will help to really bring the pickups to life. Here's a quick review I wrote when I got mine:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28422.0
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okay cool. i'll definitely look into those. and this probably sounds stupid but i havent had a "normal" strat in so long. theres 1 volume and 2 tone knobs right? what pickup does each tone knob effect if there are 3 pickups? and to be honest, i never even liked having tone knobs. i always just have the tone knob cranked on all of my guitars. if i chose not to have a tone knob at all, would they always be at that "maxed out" tone?
and would i even be able to have an HSS design with just a 5way switch and say, 1 volume knob? or am i just better have having the typical hss pickguard design?
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I don't like tone pots either... they suck tone and I can't find any use for them... I don't like how the guitar sounds with the tone pot taking treble away.... even if it's a spanky trebly guitar, it's going to sound muffled (well, at least it did for me) so it's better to change the pups other than use tone pots... At least in strats, I can't find an use for them so I usully bypass'em in my axes... Now with my Les Paul, I have to upgrade the pups first to tell, but I can't see why I'd use tone pots to tame treble in a thick mahog body...
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I don't like tone pots either... they suck tone and I can't find any use for them... I don't like how the guitar sounds with the tone pot taking treble away.... even if it's a spanky trebly guitar, it's going to sound muffled (well, at least it did for me) so it's better to change the pups other than use tone pots... At least in strats, I can't find an use for them so I usully bypass'em in my axes... Now with my Les Paul, I have to upgrade the pups first to tell, but I can't see why I'd use tone pots to tame treble in a thick mahog body...
I a telecaster you need one, it's the secret to get the edge or make it darker, thicker sounding.
I use the tonepot in an all mahogany Saint Blues quite often too. Neither of those guitar sounds muffled.
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99% of the time I just have the tone pots maxed out all the time too but now and again I like to roll the tone down a bit when soloing on the neck pickup. I tried it after reading that Slash did this quite a lot and it can be quite effective, though of course it's easier for him as he has a tone pot for each pickup and I don't.
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i guess i'm just curious if i NEED tone pots. i feel like the pickguard is so cluttered with 2 extra knobs when i always have them in the same spot
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99% of the time I just have the tone pots maxed out all the time too but now and again I like to roll the tone down a bit when soloing on the neck pickup. I tried it after reading that Slash did this quite a lot and it can be quite effective, though of course it's easier for him as he has a tone pot for each pickup and I don't.
Pretty much this.
I am however using my tone pots more and more. Part of this is upgrading pots and caps (I now use orange drops), but the main part for me was switching to 50s wiring.
After that I really started to discover the tone pot as it worked in way I seem to enjoy more (same with the volume pot, it is not just a on off switch anymore).
Granted I so far only use it for melody work and not for chord riffing (this may follow sometime though) and I find it very cool on the neck to get that extra smoothness which can be awesome for shredding and slow work alike, for the bridge to tame it a bit when soloing if I want that flavour without going too far off from the neck in terms of thickness and brighness. For the middle in a HSH it is a lifesaver sometimes to get it a bit back and when you go to a crunchsound and roll the tone on the middle off a tad you can get the most singing melody tone I have yet gotten from a PU I must say. Incredible really when you hit it (and you can learn how to).
Plus for clean tones it can do so much too, not just if you wanne add that tad of a jazz flavour in there.
Now of course it does not have to work for everyone, but I can recommend to at least try different caps (values and types, experimentation here can be very inexpensive for starters and if you like the results you can always try more expensive PIO caps and such) and 50s wiring.
If you explored it and tried it in an honest way, sure bypass it and all, but maybe give it a proper chance first, you might discover a whole new layer of tone.
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i have a question for one of my other strats. it doesnt use a cap at all. its a humbucker only strat. if i were to replace the pickup down the line with just a BK humbucker, would it be a good idea to add a capacitor to the mix? it does have a 500k pot but it was probably just a cheap assembly line fender part. would it make much difference to add a BK pot like the 550?
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(http://24.media.tumblr.com/618f0bfc53c358969f00911c642e5532/tumblr_msdfdtDYLD1rqba02o1_500.jpg)
well, i know this will seem unexpected to anyone who helped me in this thread a couple weeks ago but i ended up choosing the alnico nailbomb and it really sounds great. i think i made a wise choice. went with the 53mm, short leg and burnt chrome cover. honestly, i expected the cover to be a little more vibrant. it only shows well in the light but when it does, it looks awesome so i'm not mad. i'll post a video of how it sounds soon.