Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: littleredguitars2 on August 15, 2013, 08:19:38 PM
-
I've been using the tubescreamer for a few months now and its great but I'm noticing tons of guys swearing by the maxon od808 and I'm just curious why and how they compare? Thanks!
-
From what I know the 808 is less middy mostly. That after all is the defining quality of the tubescreamer. Different versions of both do exist though. I think to recall the 808 also is a bit more agressive. Personally I also like the 808 more of the two as it is more natural to me.
Personally I swear by the Klon(e) build by our Juansolo, just like many here do. It also is an overdrive, but one without that mid character. It takes the signal, makes it louder, adds treble and gain, all to taste, without touching the rest. Very tranparent pedal, great sounds and almost all settings are great. It is THE more pedal. Gives you more of all the good stuff. It really has that mojo to me.
If you donīt want / need the mid character of the TS types (both ts9 and 808) this is highly recommended.
-
That sounds pretty awesome. Do you have a link?
-
I deliberately went for the OD-9 as I wanted that mid hump. It just depends on what you are after. Not sure if I'd call the 808 more aggressive. If you already have a TS-9 you will find that the OD-808 is different in having less of a hump. If you have a TS-808 don't bother as it would be very similar.
There are quite a few shootouts of the Maxon pedals on youtube, including this one comparing five versions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak_nWBdEMhg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak_nWBdEMhg)
-
thanks for the input man i'll check it out. looks like a cool video.
-
difference between them is easily summed up as "not an awful lot". in physical terms you're talking a couple of output resistors (forget the chip mojo, the chip has nothing to do with clipping in the circuit).
In real terms the 9 is a touch, and i really mean vaguely, more aggressive, the 808 is more open and smooth. but theese are minute differences. There's no real "mid hump" differences between them.
I've got an original 84 TS9 ( with "mojo" chip"), a keeley modified 808, and i've a/b'd them against a maxon, a stock 808 RI and RI Ts9. the result was no difference unless you're REALLY looking for it.
My vote is get a Visual Sound Route 808. much less money than either of the Ibanez or Maxon pedals, all the common mods built in and a GREAT buffer (VS really do have an awesome buffer in their pedals). It's what i would spend my money on if i knew then what i know now.
Basically Maxon are the people who designed and built the TS's for ibanez up until about the mid to late 90's. Even early maxon made TS9 Ri's are going for silly money.. It's kind of like Swiss army knives. Victorinox make the "original" swiss army knife and Wenger make the " Genuine" swiss army knife, but they're both swiss army knives.
Maxon play off being the original makers and charge lots of money, and Ibanez are the original brand. and charge lots of money. and a million and one other makers make clones at varying levels of price. The most outrageous of the standard production ones is the TS808HW (handwired). they don't use "premium" or "hand selected" components, they use the same bog standard stuff out of the same parts bins as the other pedals.
and don't get me started on "hard to find original production JRC 4558 chips"... Rant. rant rant rant. Ranty ranty rant
-
My Maxon OD-9 was $179. The local guitar shop has the Ibanez TS-9 reduced to $223 from a RRP of $279, so I think I did fairly well.
Honestly though as stated above by tekbow the differences between these pedals is slight. If you are happy/unhappy with your TS9 I doubt you are going to more/less so with an OD-808
The OD-808 is not true bypass, if that's important to you. The OD-9 is. I'm assuming that you could change the switch in your TS-9 to true bypass if it is not like that already.
-
Oh, forgot to add, the VS route 808 is really cheap compared to the Maxon/Ibanez pedals. I know Agent Orange knows this, but for the OP's info, buffers in a chain are not a bad thing, it's all about context. Thats why i like the VS stuff so much.
also, if you get an 808 or TS9 etc etc from whoever some are relay switched, some are TB, whole myriad. for the relay switched ones, this little item to convert them to TB without drilling holes is supposed to be good.
http://www.pedalmods.com/news.html (http://www.pedalmods.com/news.html)
saying that.. if you want it to TB something without modding the case, get it, if you get it because you want to improve your buffered tone, don't. I don't know where all this snake oil about Boss and Ibby pedals having cr@ppy buffers arose from.
To be fair i shouldn't really damn keeley and Aman modded pedals. it's just the mods they make the most of (the chip change) are pure and utter nonsense. the mods they hype the least (eq modification etc) are the ones that make the most difference. but then modding a TS to remove the mid hump is making the pedal "not" a TS anymore.
but again, as i said, even the difference in the modded pedals is slight. more than between, say a TS9 and 808 made by whoever, but still slight
-
saying that.. if you want it to TB something without modding the case, get it, if you get it because you want to improve your buffered tone, don't. I don't know where all this snake oil about Boss and Ibby pedals having cr@ppy buffers arose from.
Tekbow talks sense.
I know where this snake oil comes from. If you have ever done a course in selling you would know that anxiety sells products. People who sell products needle away at your anxieties regarding your playing, sound, whatever. Your feeling that maybe you just don't sound 'great' enough. Then these anxieties circulate via 'tech talk', including on forums like this one.
The differences between Ibanez style pedals with three knobs are really slight. There are some other ones with more or less knobs that sound different. There are quite a few differences between some in that video I posted. That said the video convinced me to get the standard OD-9/TS-9 style overdrive with the classic mid hump.
I would suggest staying with what you've got and maybe invest in an MXR 10-band EQ or something like that if you don't already have one. You could use it to tune out the mid hump!
-
they're full of shite
they're both very, very close.
what everyone has been saying, in other words. if you don't like ts-style ods, then get a different style of overdrive (timmy/blues driver/bluesbreaker/klon or something like that). if you do, odds are your current one sounds close enough to all the other ones that you're just chasing your tail.
-
Yeah even listening to the video above the OD-808 and OD-9 are VERY close. The others sound different but in my opinion not really in a good way. If you are happy enough with the TS-9 that the alternative for you would be an OD-808 I just say put a good EQ in there somewhere if you want to change the sound a bit. You will find that the EQ is much more useful than a second pedal that sounds almost the same.
-
It depends on your guitar and amp too. In some cases the OD9, in others the 808 will work better. If you like the midhump you can't go wrong with these green fellows. I like the VOP, imho best of the bunch.
-
On the subject of the differences in sound on that vid, with these kind of demo's (and correct me if i'm wrong but i'm on an oilrig and can't really stream vids) they tend to set the pedals to similar setting in terms of physical pot positions. Differences in the tone can be accounted for and will be affected more by variations in component tolerences in the circuits (esp. the pots) than any of the "mythical" TS9/808 differences.
-
That's true. He placed them all on as similar a pot position he could manage. That really doesn't give you much of an idea as to the scope of sounds provided by adjusting each pot.
-
here's the thing about tubescreamers, very much to do with what telerocker and agent orange are saying.
Different pedals work well for different amps. i have never understood the use of a tubescreamer to boost a marshall or 5150 etc. Maybe because they're known as a boost pedal, primarily because of SRV. But here's the thing. SRV was Fender user, and LOTS of country players use TS's. and they generally use Fenders. Why does this combo sound so good? because fenders are typically amps with a scooped character. the TS adds in what isn't there.
Guitars live in the midrange. I used to post on rig talk a lot and the amount of times someone would post something along the lines of "I have X,Y,Z metal amp and am getting lost in the mix". They would then go on to explain that they scooped all the mids out of their eq for the classic "scooped mids" thing. THEN people would chip in with "Boost with a TS" or the OP would discover TS boosting. So basically using a pedal with a mid hump to add the mids back in that they scooped out using the EQ in the first place + a volume boost.
Marshalls, 5150's and a lot of rock oriented amps have all the midrange you could need (not "you" directed at the OP or anyone here, "you" in the collective general usage), adding more mids on top of the mids that are there just muddies things up IMO.
-
they're full of shitee
they're both very, very close.
what everyone has been saying, in other words. if you don't like ts-style ods, then get a different style of overdrive (timmy/blues driver/bluesbreaker/klon or something like that). if you do, odds are your current one sounds close enough to all the other ones that you're just chasing your tail.
^This. There really are about 4 flavours of OD tops. Tube Screamers are one and they are much of a muchness. You can tweak them, but they always sound like a Tube Screamer.
-
But... is using a TS only ever about adding mids?
One thing I also thought of while reading this thread is that the EQ in a common Marshall or 5150 is at the back end of the preamp, so using a mid boost before the amp is adding mids to the to gain stages preceding the tone controls in that situation. 3 and a bit in the case of the marshall example and 5 or 6 or whatever in the case of the 5150 with the first, second and forth stages all boosting frequencies in the midrange and up with the full gain available at that stage. Basically, it might just be the case that putting more mids into those amps gives you a different result than simply turning up the mids.
-
i have never understood the use of a tubescreamer to boost a marshall or 5150 etc.
This is what I use my OD-9 for. I was a bit skeptical about it, although I had heard videos etc with a TS-9 through my amp and cab combination (Peavey 6534+ & Orange PPC412) and noticed the audible change in character (not just volume but EQ) using the screamer as a boost. It EQs, compresses, and boosts the signal going into the front of the amp. I really didn't want to rely on the 'drive' feature of the pedal, but rather to provide a signal to the preamp that would then produce a change in sound via the gain structure of the amp ( I hope this makes sense). The Peaveys can do with a bit of tightening up in their sound, especially at the low end. The OD-9 does this for me, both with the Explorer (A-Pig set) and SG (Cold Sweat/A-Bomb). Actually I couldn't be happier with this pedal as an effect. Like others have said though the differences between overdrives are so slight it was largely a matter of picking one and going with it. The idea of going with a version of the original TS-9 with true bypass appealed to me, just in case I didn't want that buffer effect sometimes with this pedal, which I use most of the time. So I got the Maxon. But I could have just as easily got an Ibanez or some other brand. The one distinctive feature of the OD-9/TS-9 that people mention, the slight mid hump, I thought might be useful so I went with that.
With the A-bomb guitar (which is much more middy) I set it as follows:
Drive 0
Tone 0
Level 8
With the A-pig guitar I compensate for the extra bass a bit by moving the tone knob up some if I need it. For example, if playing Venom I might move the Tone up to 5 or 6, although I could definitely set it higher. The Drive is always on 0 and the Level on 8.
It's not just mids, there's a bit of compression as well.
-
I have a Maxon OD808 and i love it, its probably the most important pedal on my board and is on at all times. I use it to boost the crunch channel of my JSX; it takes that channel from a hard rock sound to a metal sound; and as people have said it adds mids and tightens the sound.
-
On the subject of the differences in sound on that vid, with these kind of demo's (and correct me if i'm wrong but i'm on an oilrig and can't really stream vids) they tend to set the pedals to similar setting in terms of physical pot positions. Differences in the tone can be accounted for and will be affected more by variations in component tolerences in the circuits (esp. the pots) than any of the "mythical" TS9/808 differences.
yup :lol:
^This. There really are about 4 flavours of OD tops. Tube Screamers are one and they are much of a muchness. You can tweak them, but they always sound like a Tube Screamer.
yeah. it probably doesn't hurt to consider things like a bad monkey, which are more or less a tubescreamer where you can dial back in the bass, but most of the time i set it like a tubescreamer anyway :lol: But way I see it, you might as well have the option. But yeah even with the bass dialled back in it still sounds "pretty much like a tubescreamer", just thicker and without the bass cut.
But... is using a TS only ever about adding mids?
One thing I also thought of while reading this thread is that the EQ in a common Marshall or 5150 is at the back end of the preamp, so using a mid boost before the amp is adding mids to the to gain stages preceding the tone controls in that situation. 3 and a bit in the case of the marshall example and 5 or 6 or whatever in the case of the 5150 with the first, second and forth stages all boosting frequencies in the midrange and up with the full gain available at that stage. Basically, it might just be the case that putting more mids into those amps gives you a different result than simply turning up the mids.
That may well be true- same thing with the bass cut. It's the same way some people wonder why you need an od boost with a high gain amp- but it's not the same as merely turning the gain up. Turning the gain up (I think) increases the amount of distortion from the valves at the end of the preamp, but using a boost pedal boosts the cr@p out of v1. It's distorting preamp tubes earlier in the circuit, which sound and react differently. Tends to be less mushy and more "immediate" sounding, for want of better words.
I mean, I'd agree that with an already middy amp, a tubescreamer can be too much (and i generally use a dano timmy clone or digitech screamin blues (glorified bd2) as my "always on" boost as they're more transparent, while i use a ts or sd1 style od for my lead boost. But I only play at home and those extra mids may well make you cut through live...
-
If we're talking about the original tubescreamer, rather than one of these boutique pedals based on a TS then I have the following to say.
Thinking that the TS was a classic pedal for early metal, I got myself one. It tightens the low end and boosts the mids indeed. I find it best as a solo boost with a just a hair of gain and volume on full.
But anyway in reality, although I liked it, theres other pedals I much prefer. I found the TS didn't give me the sound I wanted in a lot of situations. I used to use it every few months, but frankly I've not touched it for a couple of years now. I don't sell it, because of its classic status.
Maybe I should give it a go again.
-
Depends on your amp as to how much you would get from it.
For a Peavey 5150 series amp it's pretty much indispensable in the opinion of most users, including myself.
-
gwEn, what pedals have you been using instead if I may ask?
-
Even MAB has his own signature OD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkip1p1NAw4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkip1p1NAw4)
-
gwEn, what pedals have you been using instead if I may ask?
you may well ask ;)
I've been using a Boss OD-1 for humbucker equipped guitars. For strats I've been using a DOD250, and a Phil Hilbourne treble booster.
I also like a modded boss GE-7 EQ pedal for its ability to really shape the tone.
Frankly though, my main booster is now a Klone, like many on this forum.. works with anything.
(by the way, turning the mids up on your amp has a very different effect to adding mids with a pedal. On a Marshall type amp, the EQ occurs after the preamp - applying EQ pre and post distortion makes a noticeably different tone)
-
Thanks!
I'll check out the klone!
I have been a Kokoboost addict for some time though, but the more the merrier. It's always interesting to hear about what other players are using
-
Can you use Maxon OD808 too boost volume of other distortion pedals (clean channel on the amp).
For example I have some overdrive/distortion pedals and want to boost the volume up for solos, is Maxon a good choice? Or pedals like Xotic EP booster would do better job?
-
I stopped using a tube screamer for a while, after changing from a Maxon OD-9 to an MXR Custom Badass Modified O.D.
This most recent gig though I went back to using the MXR with the level dimed, drive on zero, tone at around 11 o'clock, and the 100Hz around 2 o'clock and dropped the pre-gain on my Peavey 6534+ lead channel back to around 3.5
Best sound so far. I had to back the post-gain off a little though with the boost.
The idea of boosting a Peavey 5150/6505 series amp is to boost the signal going into V1, rather than the signal coming out of it (which is what happens when you increase the pre-gain). It sounds different for some reason, mainly because winding up the pre-gain seems to add flubb
Can you use Maxon OD808 too boost volume of other distortion pedals (clean channel on the amp).
For example I have some overdrive/distortion pedals and want to boost the volume up for solos, is Maxon a good choice? Or pedals like Xotic EP booster would do better job?
For this I would probably just use my MXR/CAE Boost/Linedriver, which I have last in my effects loop. It runs on 18V and is loud as hell. You probably wouldn't need to wind it up past 9 o'clock. You could try an overdrive in the same place. It will add a little EQ and compression compared to my setup. Generally adding it before distortion in the front end will just be like having a hotter pickup
-
Good topic this. I've got a TS9 which I run with my 6505+ head. Drive is on zero, tone noon and level around 1 o'clock. Pre-gain on 6505+ head about 4 max on the lead channel, sometimes I'll take it down to 3/3.5 depending on the venue and how loud I can turn my amp up. This setup gives me a nice rhythm sound without over distorting it. Any higher on the gain and the sound is mushy and feedbacks too much.
Not tried an OD808 but alot of bands use that combination, esp drop tuned American metalcore ones (Killswitch, etc). If I can get hold of one I would like to A/B it and compare.
-
Even MAB has his own signature OD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkip1p1NAw4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkip1p1NAw4)
I have that pedal, it's my main overdrive pedal. I didn't really know who he was though, I don't know exactly why I bought it (probably read about it), but I remember looking him up only afterwards.
Anyway, I had 6 or 7 overdrive pedals and now I only have this one and a Bad Monkey.
The MAB is very good if you want to hear mostly your guitar and amp and not the sound of the pedal; it also has a quite low noise level and gives a little more character on leads. I think it's out of production now, but it really is a hidden gem, if you can still find one.
However, in all honesty, I don't use overdrive pedals much for my sound anymore, I prefer the pickup and the preamp to make my sound.
-
Can you use Maxon OD808 too boost volume of other distortion pedals (clean channel on the amp).
For example I have some overdrive/distortion pedals and want to boost the volume up for solos, is Maxon a good choice? Or pedals like Xotic EP booster would do better job?
For this I would probably just use my MXR/CAE Boost/Linedriver, which I have last in my effects loop. It runs on 18V and is loud as hell. You probably wouldn't need to wind it up past 9 o'clock. You could try an overdrive in the same place. It will add a little EQ and compression compared to my setup. Generally adding it before distortion in the front end will just be like having a hotter pickup
Did I understand right that you can place an overdrive pedal like Maxon at the end of the chain for volume boost on the already distorted tone from other OD/DIST pedal placed before?
Basically I need some volume boost on leads once I solved the whole issue with my pedals and Orange amp (have to crank it up to get decent sound).
After whatching few YT interviews, demos ect it seems that loads of pro musicians/bands/guitarists/people use Maxon type of thing on the distorted channels, to thicken everything up, so was wondering if I that would be suitable in my case as well with drive for example of 0.
cheers
-
Yeah if you can use a clean boost in the loop you could use an overdrive. Just turn the 'drive' or 'gain' knob down to zero and turn up the 'level' or 'volume' knob as far as you need. Like I said it won't be as 'clean' as a 'clean boost' in that it will add some compression and mids rather than just volume but that might suit you very well.
If you put it before the amp the effect is more saturation, distortion, feedback, etc rather than a volume boost - at least with a valve amp with pre- and post-gain controls.
-
If you put it before the amp the effect is more saturation, distortion, feedback, etc rather than a volume boost - at least with a valve amp with pre- and post-gain controls.
ehhh... that has answered my question. Orange DT has no effect loop. Looks like it I have to find something else.
many thanks
-
try an equalizer
had an 80's maxon 6 band graphic eq that sounded great as a midrange/volume booster
equalizers get a bit noisy, though
been using a reissue tc electronic classic sustain + parametric eq as a midrange booster/signal compressor and it works really well with my rig ('73 lp custom w/ riff raff/mule into a modded '73 marshall jmp 50w)
got this pedal in a sell/trade pretty much for free, but I think it costed a little fortune (like US$299 new)
you can find much cheaper parametric or graphic equalizers that will do the job
about overdrives, sometimes I use an 80's brazilian oliver sd-10, which was a roland licensed boss sd-1 clone
it has that compressed aggressive feel of the sd-1 which work better for more hard rockish marshall sounds, in my opinion
I also had the mxr wylde overdrive, ts9dx, maxon od808, keeley maxon od808, analog man maxon od9 and a maxon tbo9
they all sounded good and different from each other, but none sounded different enough to the point that one didn't work for something while the other did well (except the tbo9)
I remember the wylde od sounding a lot like a boss or the oliver, but fatter
the ts9x had the regular ts9 sound, a hair more transparent than an sd-1 but more metallic on the top, but had some extra options
the plus mode sounded good for stoner/doom stuff, as it doesn't cut off the low end
the stock od808 was a bit less colored and compressed than the others
the keeley od808 had a lot of gain and the most aggressive voicing
the analog man od9 sounded a lot like the od808, but a bit smoother and less transparent
the maxon tbo9 has a different overdrive circuit and a real tube clean signal booster, so it's not a tube screamer
it's more like the od820 with a different feel
this one had a fatter sound than all the others, but not the same middy tone and texture that are the appeal of having a screamer
good pedal, probably not worth the value just for having a tube
using a regular overdrive for extra gain and a juansolo baby boobtube as a clean booster in front of the amp worked really really well for me, but I ended removing the juansolo fearing I would eventually physically damage the exposed tube