Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Dave Sloven on September 19, 2013, 05:18:00 PM
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I've been buying some pedals recently and I'm wondering about distortion pedals.
I have a Maxon OD-9 already which I use just as a boost/shaper, with Level maxed, Drive on zero and the Tone at 9 o'clock. I also have an MXR 6-band EQ to use as a booster into the front of the amp for the leads but I haven't used that yet as I am waiting on a replacement switch (it is broken). I'm also looking at getting an MXR MC-401 Boost/Line Driver to run as a line driver (level on zero) to boost the signal into an EVH Phase 90, MXR Custom Comp, and a Crybaby From Hell that I already have on my board (these pedals will then go into the OD-9 and the EQ already mentioned before the amp (Peavey 6534+) and then in the loop I will have an MXR 10-band EQ into an ISP Decimator G-String and then a Wylde Chorus and a Carbon Copy delay pedal before going back into the power amp. At the very front of the signal chain before the line driver I've placed a Polytune and the front-end of the ISP G-String noise reduction pedal.
i.e.:
GUITAR>POLYTUNE>G-STRING>LINE-DRIVER>PHASER>COMP>WAH>OVERDRIVE>EQ>AMP>EQ>G-STRING>CHORUS>DELAY>AMP
I'm wondering if there will be anything to be gained by placing a distortion pedal in the chain for noisy leads (you know, Celtic Frost and Massacre type stuff), or if the 6-band EQ will be enough to drive the amp for that? I've looked at a few pedals on youtube but I'm not sure that they would really work with my amp. The ones I thought looked okay were the MXR Super Badass Distortion (M-75) and two pedals from TC Electronics, the Dark Matter (which is more of an overdrive in my view) and the Rottweiler. I have a Metal Muff that I don't find to be very useful.
Here are some videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4vMWUmw_aI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4vMWUmw_aI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixz79oVQgN4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixz79oVQgN4)
I'm thinking the Rottweiler might be a bit like the Metal Muff and the Dime Distortion - too much distortion for an amp that already has a LOT of distortion on tap. I'm wondering if a milder pedal like the Dark Matter or the Super Badass would push the amp so that I end up with a gain as extreme as the Rottweiler produces with the lower gain amps they use in these videos?
EDIT: That comparison video is kind of limited, so here are the TC Electric official videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekoPKkrMNFY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekoPKkrMNFY)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Sk2H_5iXY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Sk2H_5iXY)
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Didn't like the MXR at all flubby is the word :p. However I don't think running it into a DAW with Guitar Rig is a fair test. A drive/distortion pedal for me only can shine if it's running into a amp with a cool sound.
I liked the Dark Matter it has a nice range of convincing sounds, that was running into a valve amp with some reverb so if it doesn't sound good then it never will :).
My own preference is to spend as much money as is needed on the right valve amp for you. Complicates things with needing line level chorus etc. I do like the tc electronics pedals these days, also Mad Professor are producing a few nice drive/distortion pedals on pcb now.
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Doesn't has the Peavey already loads of gain? Imo highgain on highgain can lead to a lot of mud, unless you dial in less gain and more master on the amp. I have good experiences with the Suhr Riot, the Emma Reezafratzitz and the Emma Pisdywauyot, which is designed as a metalpedal for the clean channel, but works well on the drivechannel.
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I think all those pedals are inferior to the Peavey's preamp.
If you want some really "sick" sounds, rather go with something the Peavey doesn't already do better, such as maybe a Fuzz pedal or a ring modulator or something like that.
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The MXR 10 band KFK is great! I have a Blackstar HT-5 and this eq pushes it too sound much more aggressive. Kind of like what a tube screamer will do but only better. The pedal does have a gain slider but I don't use it, no need too, but it would give you more distortion. I also use a Boss HM-2 to get that classic Swedish death metal tone but amp distortion. Again it's more a tone shaper.
I'm only using a HT-5 but I found trying to run distortion pedals with the overdrive channel to be a waste. I find the amp gain overrides the pedal gain and it's really only the tone of the pedal I can hear and it's quite often just sounding like shitee. I've tried Boss ML-2, MT-2 and HM-2. It took me a while to make the HM-2 sound ok just as a tone boost. Running them through the clean channel they sound good but the MXR KFK boosting the overdrive channel wins every time for me.
To get the noisy lead you want, the gain slider on the KFK will do it.
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Thanks guys for your replies. This basically confirms my hunch about how the pedal combinations might play out: that I am better off with some kind of clean boost into the front of the amp than anything that would colour the sound too much. A lot of the distortion pedals just seem to sound terrible through my amp. Apparently I have one of the best ones, an EHX Metal Muff with Top Boost, but that sounds awful. A friend of mine tried it through his bass and loved it, but he basically expects to get it from me for practically nothing. I'm trying to get him to swap something or do some kind of maintenance work (I have an old Peavey Bandit with a bad solder joint and/or stuffed volume pot that needs work, and he's a wiz with that stuff) in exchange for the pedal. The best I would be able to get for it locally on the second-hand market is $50, and it would cost me three times that to replace it new. The irony is though that the Bandit is the only amp I have that it might sound good through!
I remembered you getting a HM-2 Dr. Pain and was wondering how that worked out. I think I will just go with an MXR EQ as a boost, given that I have two. I'm actually using my 10-band MXR (which I believe is the same as the Kerry King model except it lacks the stereo output) in the effects loop as a tone shaper before the chorus and delay pedals. I have a 6-band MXR that I received DOA from an ebay seller but basically ended up paying nothing for, but which I need to solder a new DPDT switch into. I bought it as a booster for leads and from what you say about the 6-band it sounds like it will be pretty good last in line on the front end of the amp. While it has less frequencies and no overall volume and gain sliders like the 10-band it does have 18db of cut or boost rather than the 12db on the 10 band, so I figure it will work well in that spot as a lead boost. I already have a screamer after the other front end pedals and that colours the sound a bit, but in a subtle way that I like and takes out some of the low-end boominess of my amp.
While something like the MXR CAE boost/linedriver pedal can also be used as a boost I think I am better off using that as an always-on buffer at the front of the signal chain. I'm wondering whether it should go before the tuner and the ISP or after the ISP? I guess that depends on how much noise it introduces into the signal chain. I have experimented with the ISP before the Polytune and found that it made the Polytune more 'flakey' and harder to get a consistent reading from (although this might be my imagination? Most tuning problems on an SG come from the G-string sticking at the nut and/or neck flex as you change tensions on other strings). I can run the MXR CAE pedal at 18V which apparently makes it even more effective. I basically want it before the phaser so as to provide a strong signal into that, as I hear the EVH model (and maybe Phase 90s generally?) can be a bit odd if they don't receive a strong enough signal.
Anyway thanks guys for your thoughts and when I have the 6-band EQ fixed I'll let you know how it worked out.
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The HM-2 was hard to get it sounding ok. The HM-2 works best through my 30 watt solid state Marshall. It's something I don't use too much but the MXR 10 band I use a lot. I've never tried the stereo out put though. It's a good amp torturing device. :D
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When I have both the 6-band and the 10-band EQs both working I'll try switching them around between the loop and the front-end and work out which is best where. They are quite different I think and that's why I got one of each rather than two the same.
I've got to get a splitter cable now for the 18V if I want to run the MXR CAR linedriver on 18V together with the MXR 10-band through my one 18V output on the T-Rex Chameleon. There's enough mA available (150mA at 18V) to power both of them. Apparently at 18V that thing is a bit of a monster, something like a Zvex SHO. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-471959.html (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-471959.html)
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I thought I might just chime in and give you an insight on the Carl Martin Octaswitch MKII, gonna get myself one to handle all my pedals so I thought this might be usefull for you once you have all those landmines on your board:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP2qMPLumFY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP2qMPLumFY)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAmME2c6xmM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAmME2c6xmM)
I know this isn't answering your questions, still I thought it might be a neat thing to suggest :)
Cheers
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I haven't got the biggest experience with pedals into high gain amps as the only amp I've tried it woth is my Egnater Mod50. When using high gain I get the best results with a Juan Solo Klone (it works well with the gain on zero and volume cranked all the way up, but also with settings where you let the pedals gain blend in) and a T-Rex Alberta TS clone (gain zero volume up). Both pedals are low to medium gain. I got an Emma Reezafratsitz which can get quite gainy, but it doesn't really work that well with my amp when it's running high gain.
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I think all those pedals are inferior to the Peavey's preamp.
If you want some really "sick" sounds, rather go with something the Peavey doesn't already do better, such as maybe a Fuzz pedal or a ring modulator or something like that.
I don't have any experience with running pedals into a 5150, but that's what I'd have thought. I'd only really run a distortion pedal into a good high gain amp like that if I wanted a different tone which the amp didn't do. YMMV, of course.
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I ended up getting an MXR CAE Boost/Linedriver but I haven't tested it out yet ... my pedalboard is a bit of a mess at the moment. I might try it out as a boost to see what effect it has on the gain. I think though that I will end up using the MXR 6-band as a lead boost once I repair it. Hopefully the new footswitch gets here fairly soon from the UK.
That Octa-Switch thing looks nice but I don't have room for it on my board!
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I've occasionally used an overdrive through my Cornford (either a Boss OD3 or a Blackstar Drive) and wasn't overjoyed with the results. The problem is putting one type of gain (pedal) on top of another (amp) - they won't necessarily sound good mixed together. When I used the OD3 I set it with no gain but the volume turned up to drive the amp a little harder. I also tried using my Boss Graphic set for a clean boost only and, compared to the OD3, I couldn't really hear any difference. If I was to try this again I'd used the simplest clean boost available so that it didn't conflict with the tone of the amp. For now I'm happy with guitar > cable > amp.
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MXR 6 band will be interesting. I got an old Boss 7 band and I found setting online along the lines of tube screamer tone. It works well. But I'm yet to try 7 band as boost and 10 band in effects loop. Boss SD-1 works well with my Les Paul and Strat through my amp. I'd like another high gain amp too like a 5150 50 watt or a Marshall JVM 205 but that can wait till next year.
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Yea, I think you'd have been barking up the wrong pedal tree - especially with a 5150. A high gain pedal into a high gain amp sounds like a recipe for fizzy poop unless you really are trying to get some horrible black metal tone - but even then I'd say you're better off with a boost/EQ/SS Gorilla amp ;-p
My high gain pedal exists to go A) into a single channel amp set-up clean to effectively give it a convincing dirt channel or B) to get a decent sound out of the pos SS practice amps I use for teaching. You can use it for a boost/EQ but I think you'd prefer a good transparent overdrive every time.
90% of the time I play somewhere close-ish to JCM800 levels of gain and just turn my guitars vol down for a 'clean' (cranked plexi) tone. And use my overdrive to get High On Fire levels of gain.
You should try a Colorsound Overdriver style overdrive. Juan turned me on to it, really really transparent overdrive that keeps adding bite and saturation until about 85% then it starts going bat shite crazy like a fuzz, great fun 8)
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I'm actually quite happy with the Maxon OD-9 into the lead channel of my Peavey, and just want something for those moments when I want to go OTT with the gain without adding any of that horrible fizz to the fizz that my ISP is already trying to cut out! That considered some kind of EQ or boost that I can place after the Maxon and kick in as needed sounds like it will do the trick. Next I just have to work out the best place in the signal chain for my compressor. some people like to put it before the dirt pedals and after the wah. Well it's definitely going after the wah (and the phaser) but I'm not sure if it should go before or after the Maxon. I'll certainly put it before the boost. As the Maxon is true-bypass and I tend to turn it off when playing clean it may not matter too much in terms of using compression on cleans anyway. Kicking in the compressor together with the booster though might be a cool effect.
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I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that distortion pedals sound like complete ass through my rig.
None of them sounds as good as the lead channel with a simple boost from my OD-9, or even as good at the lead channel without the screamer mid hump.
They are only useful as feedback generators! I tried playing the Black Secret and Metal Muff through my clean channel, and they both sounded awful. On the lead channel they can be useful if you are playing a real noisy divebomb or hammer-on lead, that's it.
I have an MXR Distortion+ (script reissue) coming in the mail, I'm predicting that will be as bad. I'm just going to keep them - together with the MXR 6-band EQ, which is just too noisy - for my Peavey Bandit if I can ever get that fixed for a reasonable price, and purely then only for crust punk stuff, where a cr@ppy distortion pedal through a solid state amp is the sound.
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Amps with a good OD channel usually don't sound any better with Distortion pedals through the clean channel - I find a good OD channel boosted with a Tubescreamer always works best.
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What surprised me was how lame it sounded through the clean setting rhythm channel. Just really thin and it seemed like there was a volume drop. Anyway, I'm done experimenting with distortion pedals on this amp. I guess I should be pleased that I have a choice of three that I can use with that old Bandit if I ever get the clean volume control and reverb fixed
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The babyshite brown MXR Distortion+ script reissue arrived in the mail today. Only runs on a battery and has the wired board, the funny bit of foam, the whole deal.
Still sounds like rubbish through my Peavey :-/ Not as bad as the other two, but not as good as the OD-9 as a boost the lead channel. I have it hooked up at the moment but I think I will free that space on my board up for a flanger. At least it probably will sound good and I will use it more than a distortion pedal.
It joins the pile of distortion pedals in the box waiting to be used on the Bandit or some other solid-state.
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have you tried different settings on the od9?
like NOT cranking the level, adding actual gain from the pedal and lowering the gain in the amp?
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The wampler pinnacle deluxe is an excellent overdrive pedal. It's meant to be an 'an amp in a box' and does the EVH brown sound well but it goes from mega scooped tones to harsh and abrasive but its always cuts really well.
I have an ornage rockerverb which has a ton of gain but for shredding solos I always use the wampler pinnacle just to make the amp saturate more. If youre playing a solo and dont stop (I.e any thing slower than a slow blues solo) you wont get fizz. I use this at gigs and practises and for home use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxfWniBACsM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxfWniBACsM)
This is also a vid of me playing if you watch from 6:15 onwards im using the overdrive of the amp maxed out with this pedal and it doesnt sound fizzy but its definitely a lead sound rather than a rythm sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcPwBBM2vUo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcPwBBM2vUo)
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well, the pinnacle is a modified marshall guv nor, like the MI audio crunch box
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I didnt know that. Works for me any way
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well, the pinnacle is a modified marshall guv nor, like the MI audio crunch box
I don't think so? I thought the plextortion was the modded guvnor. Most of the other wampler dirt pedals are jfet-based, I think.
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have you tried different settings on the od9?
like NOT cranking the level, adding actual gain from the pedal and lowering the gain in the amp?
Not really, although I have heard it on other settings when I have accidentally bumped the knobs moving stuff around on my board.