Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: JimmyMoorby on September 21, 2013, 01:52:37 AM
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The answer if of course no to whether or not metal is dead......
What really winds me up is when bands like avenged sevenfold and bullet for my valentine seems to think its them who are going to be there to take up the mantle when to me theyre not metal....more emo tinged metal, false metal!
The 80's were obviously very good days for heavy metal and it is where it really started getting exciting.
In the 70's and 80's the biggest/classic metal bands were obviously Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Slayer. Now there were many many many many other great bands but these were the ones who were awesome AND really captured peoples attention on a big scale and set the template for metal to follow.
Now I love every thing from death metal to prog metal but these guys some how set the classic metal template.... massive riffs and solos, great metal God frontmen \m/ \m/ and many great albums not just 1 or 2 and great live.
Since these guys I can only think of Pantera who pretty much every metalhead could agree lived up to those classic bands but IMO then it starts to get less obvious.
My point is who are the great metal bands POST pantera? Who do you think genuinely stands up to the above legends post pantera?
I cant think of many but here goes -
Nevermore - Really amazing musicians, songs, riffs, albums and great live. Really gutted when they split and thought these guys were the best metal band since pantera and still are.
Mastodon - Now these guys dont fit the classic metal template but I think they are incredible. I hope they havent peaked as to me theyre the best metal band in the world at the moment and are trying to take it to new exciting places. Really excited to see if they can keep getting better and hopefully their shows will get better with time as most bands do.
Dream Theater - Bit of a curve ball as they started out around the same time as pantera and also have a lot of roots in prog rock as well as metal but they are on an incredible level. I prefer them to nevermore and theyre pretty much my favourite band ever but im not sure how 'metal' they are.
Kinda makes me think the only metal that has really caught my attention since pantera is prog metal.
Be interested to know what other people think always looking to find new bands or gives ones a second chance. Took me awhile to get into mastodon i must admit. I could say plenty of other bands but these are the ones who I really really really like and think are in the same ballpark as the greats.
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Metal is not dead, it's thriving in mainland Europe for a start. There's a lot of sub-genres (quite a few symphonic, doom and prog metal acts around. Not to mention the viking stuff), but it's alive and windmilling. It's just way out of the mainstream these days. Then you've got Evile from Huddersfield flying the flag for thrash. It's out there.
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To be honest the metal of the '80s has all been done. When I look through my collection the members of all of the bands in that genre are over thirty years old. Younger bands like Trivium just borrow riffs from bands like Metallica and Kreator. I stood at the bar during their set at a festival one year and I was just saying 'Kreator', 'Metallica', 'Pantera', 'Megadeth' etc as each riff came out ... to younger people who don't know those bands they get really cheesed off if I point this out, calling me a 'grumpy old c*%t' who 'can't appreciate the new stuff' ... to which I respond that I'd be happier if it were actually new ...
This is sort of what I'd expect though from bands trying to recapture an eighties genre and present it to a younger audience. At least they find some new clothes and hairstyles I guess, instead of apeing '80s bands with high-tops and jean jackets like Municipal Waste ...
But here I am sounding like the grumpy old so-and-so that the kids think I am. There are actually genres that the younger people are active in and innovative in but they are at the more extreme end of the spectrum. Genres like powerviolence, grindcore, funeral doom, and 'blackened crust' are still producing interesting new bands doing stuff I haven't heard before and give me some hope for the future of music. Some other genres like metalcore, deathcore, djent, and nu-metal (although the latter is now a thirty-something taste) on the other hand leave me completely cold, as do emo, screamo, and all of that. I especially dislike 'breakdowns', 'pig squeals', and the mixing of bad 'clean vocals' with 'screaming'
Of course I have not mentioned 'power metal' or 'progressive metal', which might be thriving, I don't know. I've never been to any gigs of such bands and never listen to that kind of music. The only thing vaguely power metal that I like is Dio, and I tend to think of that just as 'heavy metal'
Black metal seems to be running out of steam. The 'blackened' doom metal, crust punk, and death metal genres though are very interesting to me.
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Whilst not new you forgot King Diamond on your list.
As for newer bands the only ones I can actually get into are bands such as
Falconer
Iron Savior
Savage Circus
I'm not into all this honky djent cr@p or anything with screaming at all
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Of course, metal has never really been away, but it is totally underground for sure now.
As much as I'd love to see a return of the more classic material - NWOBHM, perhaps a little Thrash, and the heavier/more melodic side of 70s hard rock.. those days are likely gone.
Occasionally some contemporary power or doom metal interests me, but in general I listen to hardly any new stuff. Maiden and Priest do the odd new track in the classic vein, and I understand there are some newer bands playing in the old style. But for me, part of the appeal of those early metal glory days was the stripped down and bare production. Modern stuff sounds a bit glossy to me in general, though strangely I like Judas Priest's Painkiller and a bunch of Rammstein.
Edit:
The whole Cookie Monster thing, and the drop Z guitars really put me off. Makes it sound more like noise than actual music - old man voice talking there! But I'm sure people agree
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I'm fairly old - 46 - but I like the death metal from my generation, the mid-late '80s stuff like Autopsy and Massacre. Both bands have made a comeback recently, Autopsy's being the more convincing of the two. I'm one of the oldest guys into that sort of style though. Most of the guys in the old school bands are my age or slightly younger. A lot of the original thrash bands are in the 45-50 age bracket now. Katon W. De Pena (Hirax singer) turned 50 the other day (I'm friends with him on Facebook), Tom Angelripper from Sodom is around the same age, Metallica and Destruction are around that age too I think
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whoever posted Evile, thankyou.. restored my faith in metal a bit :)
here's my issue, metal these days isn't away from the mainstream at all, it's just a highly segmented series of niche markets, some indistinguishable from the next..
and it's all very demographic oriented and very commercial..
The whole things just got so slick.. the production is so polished and it just doesn't seem right..
I was definitely a thrash fan, it was just a pointy guitar with a marshall running flat out.. sepultura managed to keep it pretty real even up to Roots. but i have a distinct preference for Arise backwards. Metallica before black, Slayer.. just all of Slayer.. i think the thing they all have in common is the sound was raw.
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Edit:
The whole Cookie Monster thing, and the drop Z guitars really put me off. Makes it sound more like noise than actual music - old man voice talking there! But I'm sure people agree
+1
I can take it in small doses (e.g. killswitch engage), but all cookie monster, just no.
What's very annoying is that (at least in the mainstream/semi-mainstream like TV stations like scuzz and kerrang) there seems to be nothing between the really heavy (really heavy to me :lol: ) metal and the light emo/indie rock type stuff. There's barely even anything you could call hard rock, let alone (melodic) metal.
Bands like BFMV, A7X and the few like that excepted. And I actually like them. :lol:
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I can take it in small doses (e.g. killswitch engage), but all cookie monster, just no.
You listen to KSE? You just lost some 'Lew rep' and I had a high opinion of you ;-)
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I still listen to stuff like this:
Grand Supreme Blood Court - Fed to the Boars (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_lv5h1t-nQ#ws)
Eric Daniels and Martin Van Drunen are both in their late 40s though, true old school dudes. So good to hear Eric recording and playing live again. Absolute master of the chainsaw guitar sound. None of the young bands sound anything like this. They have their own thing going. No-one wants to sound like the stuff their dad listens to. We didn't back in the '80s. I'm sure that's part of it. Young people have to develop their own musical identity. The young people who are copying Metallica and Pantera are doing it because it's safe. The young bands who are doing stuff that older guys like me don't 'get' are the innovative ones. They are probably happy that I don't like what they do.
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Whilst not new you forgot King Diamond on your list.
As for newer bands the only ones I can actually get into are bands such as
Falconer
Iron Savior
Savage Circus
I'm not into all this honky djent cr@p or anything with screaming at all
I'll definitely check those 3 bands out but I didnt forget about King Diamond I love them but theyre nowhere near as big as the bands I mentioned who could still headline any rock/metal festival in the world to this day King Diamond couldnt by any stretch of the imagination but theyre still incredible no less plus I think there are still a lot of metallers who dont like the kings voice (Im not one of them). Oh and I love Andy Laroque!
I think Evile are half decent theyre growing on me..... but what im trying to get at is do people really think theyre in the same league as say Slayer or Metallica at their peak? Fair enough if you do its all down to personal preference I dont think theyre at that level though im not just on about good new bands I mean ones who are genuinely as good as the classics.....if that makes sense. A band who youd go up to a maiden fan and say 'hey these are just as good just different'.
Oh and Agent Orange im 28 and I agree with everything you said. There are some new thrash bands I like but it isnt the same
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This is a good thread and I'm going to go off-topic in places.
I cannot $%&#ing stand Death-core, Math-core, Metal-core, Apple-core, Core-core, Djent. No substance, just fads.
I've just walked through town to get my hair cut, as a side note long hair 'aint metal anymore it's just pervy. Anyway, if I saw one baggy panted, skinny jeans wearing, hair over half the face like some screamo cyclops I saw twenty. They've always been around in the form of Goths but they were never brave enough to walk around in the day, or perhaps they actually were vampires?
It's just the in thing at the minute in the same way that grunge was when I was a teenager. I had a hair down to my shoulders and an undercut, I wore a Nirvana T-shirt and ripped jeans and I'm certain I would laugh and roll my eyes if my future self saw me.
I'm usually more amused by the fashion than annoyed. Like I said in the Vonhatski thread, they look like that emo Steve Coogan character. Like some weird mix of the 80s hair metal drag queens and bondage enthusiasts. I actually only find it disturbing when you see the older gentleman take on that style. Like Steve Stevens. I mean, black nail varnish, dyed long locks, the tight leather pants, the make-up...c'mon I love him as much as the next guitarist but we're all thinking it, grow old with some grace. Same thing with David $%&#ing Vincent, they have become members of Spinal $%&#ing Tap.
(http://www.decibelmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/davidvincent_morbidangel-572x380.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XVRGqYkQ53Q/TO_XZ0iAObI/AAAAAAAANMc/8DhwHRAxAqY/s1600/derek_smalls.jpg)
Anyway, back to the original question. No ofcourse real metal isn't dead. If 'real metal' is old school Maiden, Slayer and tallica then I couldn't really care if it was, it had its time and it's always fun to go back and stick it on every few years but not for any serious listening. Having said that, the new Noctum album is shaping up to be what most of us would call real metal, this song KILLS
https://soundcloud.com/metalbladerecords/noctum-temple-of-the-living (https://soundcloud.com/metalbladerecords/noctum-temple-of-the-living)
If you want decent modern thrash then there's a $%&# ton of amazing thrash getting made you just gotta look for it - Evile were mentioned, dunno how that's gonna go now that Oli has left the band an album after the bassist died (what is it about thrash bassists?). Kreator are still alive and kicking as are Testament. Warbringer, Lazarus AD, Gama Bomb, Municipe Waste, Bonded by Blood, all off the top of my head, it's endless. Same thing with doom/sludge/physc metal, which is what it's all about for me. Amazing bands are cropping up every day, you just gotta look for it - check the thread in the dressing room if you can be arsed.
I say it alot but High On Fire are $%&#ing amazing and are carrying the torch when it comes to 'real metal' as far as I'm concerned. All of the energy, mastery and rawness is there, the latest double live album is stellar.
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I met David Vincent here in Adelaide in 1992 during the Blessed Are The Sick tour when a friend picked him up from the airport and I tagged along. He refused to travel with the rest of the band due to some hissy fit of his. He was a douchebag then and he's a douchebag now. He made his name on the back of other people's songs, took credit for the work of Oscar Garcia (Terrorizer) and Mike Browning (Morbid Angel) and turned every band he's been in into cr@p, including Morbid Angel. Of course Genitorturers was cr@p to start with.
Creepy? Yes. Typical of his generation? No.
Steve Stevens is looking a little silly but not quite in the same ballpark as Vincent. Stevens might end up looking like Gary Glitter if he doesn't watch out :lol:
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:lol: indeed
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I'm always a bit uncomfortable with terms like "real metal" because everybody probably has their own ideas of what that means - I'm pushing 50 and I still regard thrash as a bit modernist....
But, after some years of not really keeping up with new music, I have been listening to quite a few new (or newish) bands recently whose music has a lot of the elements of the stuff I first got into back in the late '70s: Orchid, Blood Ceremony, Witchcraft, Kadavar for example. I suppose you could class them as doom but they're all from the more melodic end of that spectrum.
And I like some bands who have traditional elements combined with a slightly more modern progressive/alternative vibe: Mastodon, Baroness, Royal Thunder.
I must admit though, much as I like those bands they do lack the really distinctive vocalists and guitarists the old bands had. Maybe the only exception to that would be Spiritual Beggars - Michael Amott is a proper guitar hero.
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metal isn't dead, it's just record companies trying to manipulate people into thinking metal is emo, etc, but here's my question, should music even be categorised? it causes a lot of problems, people who like metal hate rock e.t.c, I've never understood it. Why can't we all just drink tea and get along?
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Why can't we all just drink tea and get along?
Tea? Well f*ck you. Thats why! ;)
Metalheads drink coffee. Or beer. Or coffee stout.
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In my experience metalheads drink lager, punks drink cider, both drink ale.
I guess Irish ones drink stout
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we drink whiskey! and lager, and ale, and stout, and vodka, and rum, and jagermeister, and...
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I must admit though, much as I like those bands they do lack the really distinctive vocalists and guitarists the old bands had. Maybe the only exception to that would be Spiritual Beggars - Michael Amott is a proper guitar hero.
Beggars have been consistently awesome. Whether it be fronted by Spice, JB or Apollo. Different flavours, always good. Amott is up there with Josh Homme as being one of the coolest gingers ever. I just wish they'd tour here.
Also worth checking out Grand Magus (JBs current band) if you liked the stuff he did with Beggars.
...and these days I mostly drink tea. By the pint mind you.
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I've never gotten into the jagermeister thing.
Sometimes I drink red wine, because I am a ponce from the wine country :lol:
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You listen to KSE? You just lost some 'Lew rep' and I had a high opinion of you ;-)
yeah I like them :lol:
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whoever posted Evile, thankyou.. restored my faith in metal a bit :)
I used to be a big fan of evile until they got signed and released enter the grave. Whilst the album was good most had been heard prior on the two demos but the production was too polished and it just sounded forced. The following two albums were pretty dire imho in comparison to the early stuff.
It is a shame thought that Ol (lead guitarist) has quit the band and I personally can't see them holding it together too much longer after the financial impact of the last tours.
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we drink whiskey! and lager, and ale, and stout, and vodka, and rum, and jagermeister, and...
Good point, but only at the same time from the same glass!
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What are the defining characteristics of "real" metal?
The youth of today listen to different metal, yes it's different your metal, so what
Saying something isn't real metal is egotistical, just listen to whatever you want to listen to ;)
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What are the defining characteristics of "real" metal?
The youth of today listen to different metal, yes it's different your metal, so what
Saying something isn't real metal is egotistical, just listen to whatever you want to listen to ;)
True.
This is posted for the youngsters who might not have seen this twenty-year old video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_pWoe1nw2Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_pWoe1nw2Q)
Features the most insane stage dive ever at 3:50
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I'll just leave this here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlhQZFTvAn4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlhQZFTvAn4)
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Is that a parody of power metal, or is it actually serious? If so, then wow
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Is that a parody of power metal, or is it actually serious? If so, then wow
It's a parody. Some of the other tracks are even more extreme when it comes to packing the cliches in. Not to mention they wear armour :)
It's really catchy and I find myself liking it more than I really should.
I suspect they took this and just went with it: http://www.metalstorm.net/pub/fun_comments.php?fun_id=6 (http://www.metalstorm.net/pub/fun_comments.php?fun_id=6)
I'd also like to present this for inclusion of the epic stage diving awards. 3 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnsKo6fBzz4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnsKo6fBzz4)
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What are the defining characteristics of "real" metal?
The youth of today listen to different metal, yes it's different your metal, so what
Saying something isn't real metal is egotistical, just listen to whatever you want to listen to ;)
Might be egotistical mate but I believe it to be true so im not going to pretend I dont feel that way out of some sort of false modesty.
When any one talks about bands such as bullet for my valentine, avenged sevenfold, trivium or bring me the horion and uses 'good' in the same sentence I just think 'why dont you listen to proper metal?' but the answer is theyre posers who like lots of posh tattoos and emo haircuts and sub standard metal. All these jokers with their avenged sevenfold tattoos and cliched sleeve tattoos are going to look very silly when they get older imo. Maybe im old before my time but when I got a tattoo it was still a statement now if youre covered in tattoos it probably means youre an emo ponce metal douche who is a vegan and writes poetry.
Hard to explain but I can easily separate proper metal from kiddywink metal the only exception to me of the bands that get lumped in with these are killswitch engage despite being simplistic those guys were good at their peak and its not their fault a bazillion bands ripped off what they were doing.
If it werent for the old bands a festival such as download would generally be a car crash that said I hope bloodstock keeps getting bigger and better and overtakes it.....id still like a few more mainstream/old school metal bands on the bill but its pulling them in. I'd like a proper metal festival and mix of the old and the new and no 'emo metal'.
The graspop 2008 lineup which i went to was a fairly good example of a mix of old classic bands and newer great metal bands id like and different types of rock and metal (apart from def leppard). Ahhhhhh good memories and pints of beer for less that £2.
Everything from morbid angel, nile, obituary, immortal and dying fetus to at the gates and arch enemy to testament and forbidden to iron maiden and judas priest to kiss and whitesnake to symphony x and malmsteen. Real metal heaven
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WOLFMOTHER
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WOLFMOTHER suck sweaty balls
Agreed
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKDvJTxZDbA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKDvJTxZDbA)
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Is that a parody of power metal, or is it actually serious? If so, then wow
With most power metal you never really know!
Ohhh... Manowar:
ManOwaR - Kings of metal HD (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMrDoIHkOdY#ws)
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Not as metal as glory hammer but still very metal.............
Zimmers hole this is metal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLTm7ezMexM#)
However this is the best band EVER
Tenacious D: Master Exploder (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80DtQD5BQ_A#)
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\m/ \m/
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There's a lot of good metal still out there but you know what gets me? These incompetent producers who get off by compressing everything to the point that either the guitar is playing or it's not playing; it's black or it's white and they removed all the shades of grey inbetween.
I guarantee you classic albums like Powerslave, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son, Screaming for Vengeance etc would not be the same with one of these modern-day b-rate producers, and a lot of newer music suffers from the same bad production.
Still though, there's plenty of great metal, it's just poorly produced these days.
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Real Metal ain't dead
back in 2012 Sabaton played in front of over 600,000 folks. granted poland loves Sabaton, but still, metal as hell!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmerZbDPXns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmerZbDPXns)
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There's a lot of good metal still out there but you know what gets me? These incompetent producers who get off by compressing everything to the point that either the guitar is playing or it's not playing; it's black or it's white and they removed all the shades of grey inbetween.
I guarantee you classic albums like Powerslave, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son, Screaming for Vengeance etc would not be the same with one of these modern-day b-rate producers, and a lot of newer music suffers from the same bad production.
Still though, there's plenty of great metal, it's just poorly produced these days.
I know what you mean thrash music is a good example of this. I love the 80's thrash records where it sounds nasty and raw but I must admit I really like what Andy Sneap did with Megadeth and End Game and Testament and Dark roots of the earth. Very polished albums and they lost the rawness which might turn some fans off but I thought it was cool. I guess I can like either but you do lose 'mojo' with the newer stuff.
Guns N roses chinese deocracy would be an example too.....fair play completely different lineup but too but still the opposite vibe entirely more of an axl rose solo record.
What did you think to judas priest painkiller though? That was a massive shift I $%&#ing loved it though
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None of them are very young, but a new Hail of Bullets album will be out soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiGFsj_RP8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiGFsj_RP8)
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I got into metal when thrash was good, 1987, and I liked a lot that followed till it died and then Sweden started churning out so much cool stuff. But I love it when an old band rolls up their sleeves and come back into the fight and just smashes everything! Like this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C23VMcnUpgA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C23VMcnUpgA)
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I always think these lads are pretty damn good. Very good drummer. Still not as good as the classics tho
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebeGEdgh9vk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebeGEdgh9vk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2BR5W_7kas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2BR5W_7kas)
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I might just chime in and give an example of two younger bands that I consider to be good metal, kinda an old school thing with a modern twist. No Djent or Core in there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAesSjqspU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAesSjqspU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFl8I3UY6Vw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFl8I3UY6Vw)
I just love Revocation and Sylosis. Right now these two are actually the only modern metal bands I listen two, all the other stuff is Metallica, Exodus, Mastodon, Opeth, Decapitated, Death and so on.
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I might just chime in and give an example of two younger bands that I consider to be good metal, kinda an old school thing with a modern twist. No Djent or Core in there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAesSjqspU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAesSjqspU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFl8I3UY6Vw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFl8I3UY6Vw)
I just love Revocation and Sylosis. Right now these two are actually the only modern metal bands I listen two, all the other stuff is Metallica, Exodus, Mastodon, Opeth, Decapitated, Death and so on.
They sound like they could be cool always hard to tell through my laptop speakers though should by a cd to check out in my car sylosis sound different sometimes it takes me a while to get into new bands these days.
Interesting that you dont class mastodon as a modern band I know they surfaced in early 2000's but I only started liking them around blood mountain before that I just couldnt see what the fuss was about (Although I do like the riff in blood and thunder).
Here I was finally thinking I like a new band and youve taken it away from me :(
Still when this song kicks in this is a classic riff worthy of any legendary band. I bet even Tony Iommi wishes he wrote it! Plus Brann Dailor is one of the best drummers ever imo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx2fp-kKOIw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx2fp-kKOIw)