Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: DefaultM on October 08, 2013, 06:50:02 PM
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Just got some Bare Knuckle Cold Sweats in Zebra for the bargain price of £99 and I'm wondering which guitar they will be best suited to.
I have:
PRS CE22 trem with maple top (mahogany body/maple top/maple bolt on neck with rosewood fretboard)
PRS CE22 same as above but without maple top
This is going to be my drop D riffing guitar. I'm swapping out the Dragon IIs because although they're nice for lead, they're too muddy for distorted rhythm. I use extended chords with high gain and there's no clarity. Cleans are pretty cr@ppy too if I'm honest.
I'm thinking they'll go better in the one without the maple top, but I've really no clue. They could be unsuitable in both for all I know, but at the price I got them for if that's the case I can make a profit.
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They'll work in both guitars very well but if it was me, I'd put them in the guitar without the maple top. The Cold Sweat is tight and bright so doesn't particularly need maple to help it cut through.
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+1
The Cold Sweats will safely go in the guitar without the maple top.
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well, the bridge dragon II is at least as bright as the cold sweat, so you shouldn't worry about that
you could either put it in your favorite one, or in your least favorite just for the improvement
I definitely tend to prefer maple topped guitars and the cold sweat should go well with the maple neck too
the maple top usually delivers some extra openness in the upper mids, and that suits the cold sweat pretty well
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cold sweats were always one of the pickups i didnt look into much. what sort of sounds are they best for?
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cold sweats were always one of the pickups i didnt look into much. what sort of sounds are they best for?
They are a very versatile pickup, well suited to mahogany guitars like Les Pauls and SGs. The neck is similar to the Rebel Yell, perhaps a little darker and not quite as warm, with rounded smooth tones. The bridge is tight and doesn't have the 'hairiness' of some BKPs (like the Nailbomb and Painkiller). Cleans on both pickups are very good - I'd rate them as 'amazing' on the neck pickup.
The closest other pickups to the Cold Sweat would be
Rebel Yell (neck)
C-Bomb and Miracle Man (bridge)
The bridge has its own character though. I find it works very well in my SG, which is a difficult guitar to please (by comparison with a Les Paul). The main competing pickup (in terms of application) within the BKP range is the Holy Diver.
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yeah the neck pickup is used in a lot of combinations right? i hear about that one way more than the bridge.
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The neck pickup is very highly rated.
I suspect though that in many cases the person would be as happy or happier with the RY neck, but it just doesn't have the rep that the Cold Sweat has. Another neck that seems to be popular in high-gain applications is the MQ.
Of course there are a number of neck pickups in the Vintage Hot and Vintage ranges that are more popular than their corresponding bridges for lower-gain applications.
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I prefer the none maple one to play, but also prefer how it sounds at the minute. I can always buy replacement pickups for both guitars though, so I just want to focus on which the Cold Sweats will work best with.
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cold sweats were always one of the pickups i didnt look into much. what sort of sounds are they best for?
the bridge pickup packs a lot of punch in the bass, not much thickness in the mids and lot of cutting top without getting spikey
quite a focused and bright tone, but organic
it does have the ceramic character, unlike some say, but in a good way
a cutting non-harsh edge on the top, but without the hairy thing agent orange mentioned
think Pantera leads and classic 80's rhythms, like Accept or UFO
voicing is somewhere between the duncan custom and bill lawrence l500l, but no near as compressed and spikey as those
neck is medium bright and flat voiced
it has a bit of paf reminiscence, but sounds definitely more modern
seems to be a favorite among metal and prog players
Paul Gilbert always comes to mind
I believe it has similar specs to the dimarzio paf pro
both are among the most articulate BKP models
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They'll work in both guitars very well but if it was me, I'd put them in the guitar without the maple top. The Cold Sweat is tight and bright so doesn't particularly need maple to help it cut through.
I agree with that. Cold Sweats sound great in all-mahogany guitars, so I think they'd sound great in your non-maple-topped CE22.
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cold sweats were always one of the pickups i didnt look into much. what sort of sounds are they best for?
the bridge pickup packs a lot of punch in the bass, not much thickness in the mids and lot of cutting top without getting spikey
quite a focused and bright tone, but organic
it does have the ceramic character, unlike some say, but in a good way
a cutting non-harsh edge on the top, but without the hairy thing agent orange mentioned
think Pantera leads and classic 80's rhythms, like Accept or UFO
voicing is somewhere between the duncan custom and bill lawrence l500l, but no near as compressed and spikey as those
neck is medium bright and flat voiced
it has a bit of paf reminiscence, but sounds definitely more modern
seems to be a favorite among metal and prog players
Paul Gilbert always comes to mind
I believe it has similar specs to the dimarzio paf pro
both are among the most articulate BKP models
i'm a HUGE paul gilbert fan playing wise. but his tone was always hit or miss
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The Cold Sweats also respond very nicely to the volume and tone controls.
I use 500K CTS pots and 0.022uf PIO caps with '50s style wiring.
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They'll work in both guitars very well but if it was me, I'd put them in the guitar without the maple top. The Cold Sweat is tight and bright so doesn't particularly need maple to help it cut through.
I was thinking the same thing. And take advantage of the maple top model by getting some pickups that compliment it :)
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i'm a HUGE paul gilbert fan playing wise. but his tone was always hit or miss
well, Paul uses like 40 different guitars with the whole dimarzio pickup line and at least half a dozen different amps
what I meant is that the neck cold sweat for some reason has that virtuoso vibe (although I can't shred)
something about their articulation and midrange density
satriani would be in the ballpark as well
but sounds quite different than, let's say, Guthrie Govan, which has a more vh2ish or nailbombish neck tones (depending on the guitar)
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I have a Cold Sweat in the bridge of a Hard Ash bodied Strat with Maple/Rosewood neck and fretboard and whilst it's bright, it's not as bright as the Rebel Yells in my Mahogany bodied Tokai Love Rock Custom.
Going by the specs the Cold Sweat should be far too bright for the guitar I have it in, but it just works! :lol:
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I would put the CS into the guitar with the maple cap for the reasons Eric stated - maple usually adds mids/high mids and that would compliment the CS bridge well.
Compared to the Dragon II you should expect more bass, more punch and more cut.
Cheers Stephan
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My only concern was that there's more maple on that guitar than there is mahogany (maple neck and the cap is half the thickness of the mody) so would it not be too bright?
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I would say that the Cold Sweats would be a *safe* swap into the all-mahogany guitar. That would leave your other guitar for a pickup set that is not so great in mahogany, if you wanted to do that later.
I tend to think there is a good chance that it will work in both though.
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They tend to suit all mahogany guitars well, as the mids from the mahogany counteract the slightly scooped mid response of the CS
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Thanks guys. I've also heard that if I want to have the coil splitting options with my rotary switch I need to swap the magnet round or something?
I'm thinking of swapping it out for a three way toggle switch, but want to consider my options.
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I don't know about that, I've never heard that before, but as long as you have the 4 conductor version of the pickup with the green and white wires you should be able to wire up a coil split somehow
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Its the thing where positions 2 and 4 combine the outer coils of both pickups and the inner.
Apparently if the magnet isn't somehow changed then you get out of phase sounds.
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I would ask the people at BKP about this but what you are basically wanting to do is run the screw coils in series with a centre single coil?
Does something like this help at all?
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/downloads/schematics/general/hsh_hss/hsh__1_vol__1_tone__5_way_with_auto_coilsplit.pdf
The way that's set up you would have the inner coils (slug coils) on with the centre pickup. I'm pretty sure using the screw coil just involves moving the wires around
If anything needs to be changed it's likely to be your centre pickup to a RWRP one, but maybe not
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Its the thing where positions 2 and 4 combine the outer coils of both pickups and the inner.
Apparently if the magnet isn't somehow changed then you get out of phase sounds.
Yeah, if you have the PRS rotary five-way switch you need a "flipped" magnet in one of the pickups (usually the neck, but it could be either).
It means the positions where both pickups are split remain hum-cancelling.
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Would I still need to do that if I change to a 3 way toggle with 2 push pull pots? If so is it easy enough for my tech to do?
If it's not possible then I can do without, it's just nice to have options.
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Thanks guys. I've also heard that if I want to have the coil splitting options with my rotary switch I need to swap the magnet round or something?
Only if you want positions #2, 3 and 4 to be humcancelling. The normal magnet orientation is such that seen from the bridge the coils are south-north-north-south. Combining the inner or outer coils of both humbuckers would result in combinations of coils with the same magnetic direction which would only result in a humcancelling arrangement if one of the coils is electricaly out of phase with the other. That however would not give you the expected PRS sounds.
The solution is therefore to reverse the magnet in one of the pickups to achieve a south-north-south-north or north-south-north-south orientation (don't matter which way round). You will also have to change the electric phase of the pickup whose magnet is reversed (this is done with BKPs by soldering the black wire to the hot connection and the red wire to ground) - otherwise you get again out of phase sounds which are not humcancelling.
I did this myself with a Holydiver and a Crawler bridge pickup to work properly with the 5-way rotary switch (and voided the warranty on the Crawler but I am confident that I will never have BKP to take up on that anyway - the HD was bought used). If it's the first time you attempt a magnet reversion I would not start with a BKP - best to leave the job to a pro shop or BKP.
I'm thinking of swapping it out for a three way toggle switch, but want to consider my options.
That is IMHO the most practical option if your favorite playing positions are bridge humbucker alone and neck humbucker alone. These are farthest away from each other on the 5-way rotary.
Cheers Stephan
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Would I still need to do that if I change to a 3 way toggle with 2 push pull pots? If so is it easy enough for my tech to do?
If it's not possible then I can do without, it's just nice to have options.
In that case there is a simpler solution. I would wire the neck pickup so that in the single coil mode the coil closest to the neck stays active. This would not require the magnet reversal. Instead, the black and red wires would have to be soldered together and to the push-pull pot. Green would then go to hot and white to ground (or the other way round if it turns out to be out of phase).
Hope that helps,
Stephan
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Just spent some time with the 2 guitars using a basic clean and distortion and I'm surprised with the results. Using the same setting for each guitar; the maple topped one actually sounds a lot bassier and full, whereas the mahogany bodied one sounds bright and thinner.
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I usually get the impression that the maple topped ones usually deliver an overall fuller sound (not really bassier)
and maple necks tend to make the midrange bumpier and fuller as well, despite of sounding more snappy
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I think I'm going to put them in the maple one in light of this. Plus I think it looks better.
(http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq209/Vaibanez89/20131008_183303.jpg) (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/Vaibanez89/media/20131008_183303.jpg.html)
(http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq209/Vaibanez89/20131008_183205.jpg) (http://s448.photobucket.com/user/Vaibanez89/media/20131008_183205.jpg.html)
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I think they look better on the mahogany one - but it's not my choice! Nice guitars. :)
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I think the zebra pickups with the maple top look really good. Wise decision! 8)
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both look great :D :D :D
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I think the zebra pickups with the maple top look really good. Wise decision! 8)
+1
Cheers Stephan
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i personally would never get a pair of zebra pickups because i just dont like the look but i agree they look better with the maple top.
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Being super-picky as I am, one thing that always slightly irritates me is that BKP's cream bobbins are slightly lighter in colour than most cream mounting rings. It's a small thing, but it grates....
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Philly, you touched a sore point with the cream colored rings. I have moved to black rings for some guitars just because of that.
Cheers Stephan
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Philly, you touched a sore point with the cream colored rings. I have moved to black rings for some guitars just because of that.
Ah, so it's not just me! Sorry to have touched that sore point, but I'm glad I'm not alone! :lol:
The thing is, I really like the look of zebra (and double cream) pickups but I'm thinking I can only put them on guitars with black rings!
I have a 2011 McCarty with PRS's new style of pickup rings, I think they're calling them "ivory" rather than "cream" and they do seem to match the BKPs a lot better.