Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Dave Sloven on October 15, 2013, 04:58:28 AM
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Ok, this is not what it looks like. I'm not looking for people to say 'JBs are cr@p, BKPs are much better!' or whatever, I'm just wondering which BKPs people think in general sit well beside JBs in a band context where one guitarist has JBs and the other guitarist has the BKPs.
Here I am thinking of the classic two guitar bands, where each guitarist has a distinct sound that somehow gels with that of the other.
As a short list, I'm wondering how the Cold Sweat, Rebel Yell, and Holy Diver sit alongside JBs in such a setting (has anyone here played their BKPs alongside a band member with JBs?), but I would also be interested to hear opinions on other pickups like the VHII and Emerald. Les Pauls in particular, but again any good comparisons in other guitars would help
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I never have a problem with any BKP working with any other pickup being used in the band. I think a lot of that is down to the different tastes we have as guitarists as the other guitarist in my band prefers Strats and Teles with the odd SG thrown in. He does also have a PRS like me but that's loaded with P90's. Those guitar differences always puts enough distance between us anyway, besides which, his EQ settings are quite different. On the rare occasions he is playing a guitar that may be seen as similar to mine, there's always a distinctly different sound because my pickups are so much better articulated than his 8)
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Thanks. I didn't really mean problems though, more asking which set people think both fits in nicely (in terms of compliments) and stands out next to a JB equipped guitar.
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Before I found out about BKs I used an old SG Junior with a JB in the bridge. The best sound I got working with another guitarist was with a guy who used a Godin guitar with P90s. You could always hear both guitars because they didn't collide tonally too much but were in a similar ballpark. However, a lot of it was down to the fact that we worked carefully on our parts so that we were never duplicating each other and would use different inversions and registers etc. I think that working on the parts is more significant than having different sounds. It depends what you're going for but I like hearing two guitars that compliment one another so that they add up to a greater whole. Two guitars with entirely different sounds don't always sound great to me i.e. a Strat with an LP is not automatically going to sound good.
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Yeah I agree.
A Strat with hot pickups and/or HSS can go well with an SG though from what I've heard. I guess the SG is a bit less chunky and a bit more nasal than a Les Paul. But I dare say you could get the LP/Strat combo working well if you have the amps set up right.
Are there any pickups in the BKP line that are just too close to the JB to tell the difference in a live setting with amps set up the same way? The guys I am asking for have the same amps, Laney Lionhearts with 2x12 greenback cabs, their sound focusing on poweramp overdrive and speaker breakup to some extent
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The JB is a fairly middy pickup (but fairly flat & dull sounding, to my ears). So I'd say the cold sweat, being a ceramic pup, with sharper highs & more lows, should contrast quite nicely with the JB.. The Holy Diver would perhaps be too similar, being another fairly middy A5 pickup. ARiff Raff might be good? .. I have not actually played JBs alongside BKPs as I very quickly replaced the JBs I got in a couple of guitars with BKPs!.. Sounded OK in the strat tho, I seem to recall.
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The JB is a fairly middy pickup (but fairly flat & dull sounding, to my ears). So I'd say the cold sweat, being a ceramic pup, with sharper highs & more lows, should contrast quite nicely with the JB.. The Holy Diver would perhaps be too similar, being another fairly middy A5 pickup. ARiff Raff might be good? .. I have not actually played JBs alongside BKPs as I very quickly replaced the JBs I got in a couple of guitars with BKPs!.. Sounded OK in the strat tho, I seem to recall.
I'm thinking along the same lines. If you can't have a single coil or P90, something such as the Miracle Man or Cold Sweat or similar would fit best.
My JBs have both been replaced by the Miracle Man (and one later by the Nailbomb). The MM isn't a world away from the way the JB sounds in brighter guitars (it is though in darker sounding ones).
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The guitar is fairly dark, a mahogany Les Paul, so I'm guessing that the warnings I have seen regarding the MM being dark would apply here?? Or is a non-maple LP okay for the MM? Given that it was intended to give a Wylde sound, I would be surprised if it did not work in LPs, but who can say.
I tend to think that we might be onto something with the Cold Sweat. I'll get him to play my SG through his rig and see what he thinks. It will of course sound a bit different - his guitar would not be as middy as mine - but it would give him some idea as to how he likes the responsiveness, clarity, basic tonality, etc
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I love Cold Sweats and it will certainly sound different to the JB, but both have a bit of an upper mid emphasis.
The Miracle Man is fab in a good LP but tends to excel in a one guitar band in my opinion as it is fat sounding with a crunchy top end
You may find that a Mule or a VH2 would be a good choice emphasising a full earthy sound in the case of the Mule or seeming to hit all frequencies with the VH2
Look also at a couple of other tweaks to help get definition out of the guitar no matter what pickup is fitted:
1) rewire to 50s wiring (consider using 550k pots and maybe add some Jensen caps for good measure if you like using tone controls
2) swap the tailpiece to an aluminium one (and I would use the Tonepro locking studs too
3) consider having an earvana nut fitted
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Thanks!
I have already told him that we would need to do (1) and have suggested that he might also try (2) if he wants a bit more improvement on top of what changing the electronics can provide. (3) is a good idea as well. I am wondering though at the moment how much of this is wishful thinking on his part. Usually he is complaining about money being tight and now he wants to spend $1500+ on upgrades to his rig. Unless I see some real action soon I'm thinking I've probably wasted a lot of my own time thinking about this.
The VHII set was another one I had in mind. Basically I was thinking Rebel Yell, Cold Sweat, or VHII. I have heard a lot of great things about the first two in Les Pauls, and was wondering about a VHII set. The guitar is an all-mahogany LP without a maple top cap. Has the VHII set worked well in such guitars in your experience?
One of the problems he is having is getting out of the way of the bass player sonically so maybe fat and earthy won't cut it so much, and it seems like he is thinking higher output than a Mule.
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For getting out of the way with the bass player, the Rebel Yell appears to be the most appropriate of those mentioned since its bass is tight and midrange strong throughout.
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks Stephan,
I spoke to my friend today and everything we discussed seems to point toward the Rebel Yell set.
He's coming over next weekend to try out my Cold Sweat equipped SG through his amp (and my cab) and listen to some clips online with a view to placing an order. He doesn't have a computer so he relies on me to connect him to the 21st century ;)
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My friend came over, played his amp through my cab (it sounded really 'toppy' through my cab) and played his Les Paul alongside my two SGs. He loved the feel, clarity and power of the Cold Sweat but the sound was too 'metal' for him, and I think the Rebel Yell was too brash and metal for him too. So I played him the VHII and Emerald clips and it seems that he gravitates toward the Emeralds. We worked out that he likes a more bluesy sound when he played with the SG Junior, which still has the Gibson P-90 in it. He absolutely loved the sound of that thing through his Lionheart amp.
He didn't place an order though so it could all have been a waste of time on my end. Possibly he will be back here placing an order through my computer, or possibly he will end up spending $400 to have someone fit Di Marzios to it because it's easier for him to go there while he's at work, who knows? Usually he picks the stupid option, I have to say. It's like he might have too much fun and nothing to regret otherwise ...
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JB is not for Les Pauls or mahogany i think. Sounded terrible in mine. But my Charvel came with one and sounded fine.
Wonder if Tim could reverse engineer a JB and make a close but slightly clearer version. :)
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JB is not for Les Pauls or mahogany i think. Sounded terrible in mine. But my Charvel came with one and sounded fine.
Wonder if Tim could reverse engineer a JB and make a close but slightly clearer version. :)
he already did it 7 years ago
The new Holydiver, DC16.2K Alnico V-it'll eat your JB for breakfast :twisted: -seriously though I've worked hard to remove the mid honk that plagues the JB, open out the high end a touch and produce a more harmonically rich mid-similar amount of power though.
I'm going to chime in here and say for the majority of S style guitars the Holydiver is going to be closest to the original JB tone-well as close as I'd want to get anyway-great pickup by the way, the original JB and certainly one that rightly claims it's place in rock history.
In a LP the new Rebel Yell does have a similar mid push to the early JB although it is a touch brighter to my ears and the bass is a little tighter too-as per usual this will be down to the asymmetrical wind and scatterwinding too.
The early JBs I've tested-one of which was Phil's- have all been symmetrically wound, part of the SD philosophy-which accounts for the way it behaves in the high end.
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JB is not for Les Pauls or mahogany i think. Sounded terrible in mine.
My impressions too.