Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Luciano.Neri on October 27, 2013, 04:22:51 PM
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Hi, i'm new here. I looked for some informations about 56' pickups on the forum, but I didn't found what I want...
I have an ash body maple neck Strat, and I want a sound like Clapton's Brownie on Layla album. This strat must sounds like clapton and Mark Knopfler. I was thinking at Sultans, Apaches or Irish Tours. If you have any other idea of pickups that will give me that sound, just say it :D
Thanks for helping!!
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Welcome to the forum.
I don't have experience of the Irish Tours but of the Apaches and Sultans, I would opt for Apaches personally. The sound on the album, though, is a bit biting though quite warm and I think possibly Apaches would provide that. I've not tried the Apaches and Sultans side by siide and I am remembering them from an afternoon playing a friend's guitar that had a set in. Apaches, on the other hand, I know well and I am pretty sure I could get a similar Layla era "Derek" Clapton tone from them.
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One more question: why so many people prefers apache? Sultans have a nice sound, apache too. But Why apache? Its because Sultans output it's too low? Or it's just because Apache sounds more "classic"?
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Very close run thing- the Sultans sounded fantastic but I only had an afternoon at a friend's house with his guitar and gear wheras I have a set of Apaches and have had them for 6 or 7 years and so I know them well. I have no idea if, indeed, more people prefer Apaches to Sultans. They both have their merits I just think that for what you are looking for, the Apaches might more readily provide the tone- but I think that both could get close.
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Thanks for helping :D
I still don't know wich buy. But I found Sultans for a good price. I think I will give it a shot, because I really like alnico II pups. If i go wrong, I will sell it, or just change.
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You'll be OK with Sultans :D
In my experience, they're a little bit more "polite" and slightly less "body" than than Apaches. So given the two, I would choose Apaches for the job
But Sultans will get you very close. I think either would do it for you in that guitar.
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I would prefer Apaches, but if you got a Sultan-set for a good price, I would not hesitate to try them. Lots of BKP's have some magic and they could work very well in your guitar.
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I bought the Sultans. When it arrives, I'll write what is my first impressions of the Pups.
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Well, after testing the Sultans on diferent amps and pedal, here is my opinion:
Man!!! What a sound!!! These pups are great. Really Great. Don't have a thick sound as fenders, it's more "beefy", bassy, has a good sustain and work very well with drives. I tested it with a BOSS OD3, a Proco Rat II and a Orange TH30. All drives sounded great. Don't have so much Brightness as alnico V pickups, but i like the sound of the alnico II magnets. Don't sound "so Clapton", but they have a real vintage tone.
I have just a complaint: Why "Sultans". These pickups doesn't sound as Mark Knopfler. So, if you want a Mark Knopfler sound (as me, before testing them) buy apaches or another brand. Anyway, I really Like the Sultans. Great Stuff!
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Glad you like them. Maybe the Sultans don't sound like Mark Knopfler, but the TH30 is perhaps not the first choice for that particular sound. I love Orange. I have a Rockerverb 50 watt head myself. But my strats sound way more Knopfler on the The Valve 2/50 I purchased half a year ago. The clean channel sounds like a Twin Reverb, with just a tad more mids. The Rockerverbs clean channel has more of a Vox-vibe, though there is some Fender-esque sparkle. My singlecoils are Irish Tour and Mother's Milk. Never tried the Sultans, which I should one day.
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Well, after testing the Sultans on diferent amps and pedal, here is my opinion:
Man!!! What a sound!!! These pups are great. Really Great. Don't have a thick sound as fenders, it's more "beefy", bassy, has a good sustain and work very well with drives. I tested it with a BOSS OD3, a Proco Rat II and a Orange TH30. All drives sounded great. Don't have so much Brightness as alnico V pickups, but i like the sound of the alnico II magnets. Don't sound "so Clapton", but they have a real vintage tone.
I have just a complaint: Why "Sultans". These pickups doesn't sound as Mark Knopfler. So, if you want a Mark Knopfler sound (as me, before testing them) buy apaches or another brand. Anyway, I really Like the Sultans. Great Stuff!
I agree Sultans do take drive very well - that 42 guage wire I think.
To get the Knopfler clean tone will depend on a lot of factors. Your ash/maple strat will probably sound rather zingy anyway compared to an alder/rosewood one, plus of course the amp.
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Fender Amps could do a lot of diference. I tested these pickups on a Frontman 212. Well, it's not the perfect amp to Knopfler sound, but I don't get Sultans of swing sound again. But Knopfler was not my target. I wanted Brownie sound and The Sultans get that "vibe" of the 50's pickups used on Layla. This was what I wanted. it's not equal, but it's perfect for my ears!! These pups have a "mojo" that makes your guitar scream. The Recipe is: The Sultan's + Fuzz = Heaven.
Thanks hor helping :D
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your thread has inspired me - I will rock out with my Sultan strat tonight :)
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I have both Sultans and Apaches, and actually prefer Sultans for a clean tone. With a Princeton Reverb, you can definately get a Mark Knopfler (or Richard Thompson) clean tone. It is partly down to the guitar and amp in this case.
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That's my experience too - I love Apaches for their slightly "weighty" and "spanking" strat tone... most of the time I run them on a "hairy" to distorted tone... but if I really want CLEAN strat, the guitar with the Sultans in is the one I reach for... the guitar itself doesn't suggest "dirty" so I don't use it like that very much, but when I do, I also love how the Sultans respond to dirty tones and how it fits into a mix...
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I have both Sultans and Apaches, and actually prefer Sultans for a clean tone. With a Princeton Reverb, you can definately get a Mark Knopfler (or Richard Thompson) clean tone. It is partly down to the guitar and amp in this case.
I need a fender amp... TH30 has a great clean sound. But fenders... It's Fender!! Great Reverb and great clean sound. I think Knopfler sounds is 40% amp and 40% pickups. Using that equipment, alder or ash body, maple or rosewood board will not change so much the final sound. You can get really close of Knopfler with fenders Valve amps. But with another amps... It's a war to get that sound! Well, my ears think so. :lol:
I used to use texas Special. I liked it for some time. Until I started to use another pickups. Today I really don't like Texas Special!
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I think Knopfler sounds is 40% amp and 40% pickups.
I'm not so sure :lol:
I think it's 20% amp, 20% pickups, and 60% how he plays the thing (maybe even 10/10/80).
When the original albums were coming out, I loved the sound he was making and fixated over it for a while... Actually, right from the start, the single Sultans of Swing, I was going "HOW does he do that?!?! It's FAB..."
Years later I played a lot of bass and a lot of slide on resonators - so I learnt to leave the pick alone. That started creeping into my ordinary six-string playing, both electric and acoustic. Nowadays, even if I'm holding a pick, I'm quite often palming it without even realising...
Anyway, over the last few years, when I'm working out a lead part and taping it, no matter what guitar/amp/amp modellor I'm using (or even acoustic), when I get it roughly how I want it, I sit back and listen... and invariably I have a moment of "oh bluddy hell it sounds like Mark Knopfler again... :roll: ...oh well, leave it in..." :lol:
I don't know how he plays now, but back at the height of Dire Straits he played with a thumb and two fingers (index and middle) anchored together as one. It appears that, for lead lines with fingers, that's how I do it... and I really dig in, really PLUCK the strings. This means that many of the notes plucked with the anchored fingers, especially the accented ones, are actually "snapping" on the fretboard as they sound. That seems to be part of the secret of this Knopfler sound - a lot of attack and not so much note after it (you encourage/maximise the note sustain with your right hand) and once you start doing it like this, it's hard to stop... and... it comes out of strats, teles, even Les Pauls, etc, clean or dirty.
Btw, I've got the impression that Ritchie Blackmore was doing it in public before Mark Knopfler. I do know that MK made a conscious decision to ditch the pick in Dire Straits to get a "different" sound to distinguish him from all the other guitarists... I sometimes wonder whether he'd been listening to RB's solos on MIJ (like I was) thinking "woo! that's a cool sound when he does that! (Of course it might have been someone entirely different - Richard Thomson, mebbe?)
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Knopfler uses countrypicking techniques.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K3o5QmSc8M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K3o5QmSc8M)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgfhfW3hyw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgfhfW3hyw)
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I think it's 20% amp, 20% pickups, and 60% how he plays the thing (maybe even 10/10/80).
I don't play wihth the finger yet. I'm, trainning this technique a while and it's not easy to get it fast. Maybe I get my nunber wrong. Knopfler's fingers style is really what get the guitar sounds of Dire Straits. But an amp and pickups do a lot of difference. I'm Studying Steve Trovato Country Licks. He plays like Albert Lee. It's very fun technique
Knopfler uses countrypicking techniques.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K3o5QmSc8M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K3o5QmSc8M)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgfhfW3hyw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgfhfW3hyw)
Great videos!!! Thanks