Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Dave Sloven on November 12, 2013, 08:46:05 AM
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I posted some stuff about the Warpigs in this guitar in the pickups forum (click me (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30213.0)) but as the current mods have little specifically to do with the pickups I've started a new thread here.
The guitar had been in pieces for a good while now while I have been working out what to do with it in the wake of a couple of problems with the Epiphone wiring harness, which had a faulty pickup selector switch and jack. I figured it was time to do a complete refit with CTS pots and maybe some switches, as well as shielding the cavities properly. The previous owner had covered the back of the control cavity cover with foil, which I tested with a multimeter. While the cover checked out with the continuity check on the multimeter the paint in the cavity did not, so I have completely painted all cavities with some shielding paint purchased from a local luthier, except for the wood around the jack socket, as that was quite tight and it seemed likely to short out.
Another change I have decided to make is to replace the pickguard and hardware, partly because the gold hardware was heavily tarnished, and partly because some of the hardware I had to replace was not available in gold (e.g., the selector switch), and the pickguard is being replaced because the previous owner had cut down the original to fit larger pickup rings. As I plan to have SD Triple Shot pickup rings fitted in stage 2 of this rebuild I wanted another pickguard to cover the gap that would result. I have in the meantime refitted those pickup rings and the pickguard, together with painting the underneath of the pickhguard with shielding paint.
Work is basically proceeding in two stages: first, a stage completed by myself; second, a stage done by a professional luthier. One part of stage 1 that has not been done yet - because I am waiting for the parts to arrive - is fitting chrome locking Grover tuners, which I will do if no drilling is required, otherwise I will get that done with the rest. Here are the mods for the two stages:
Stage 1:
*Painting cavities and underside of pickguard with shielding paint
* Removal of the complete Epiphone wiring harness and fitment of replacement harness custom made by Tim Mason, with fully shielded wire, two Mojotone CTS 500K volume pots (tested at over 500K, more like 515K), one Mojotone push-push 500K master volume pot wired so that when the pot knob is up the two volume pots are bypassed while the tone and selector switch remain in the ciruit (I might modify the push-push to be a 'no load' pot later if it still isn't bright enough), plus Switchcraft selector switch and jack
* Replacement of gold Grover mini tuners with chrome locking versions
Stage 2:
* Installation of Seymour Duncan Triple Shot pickup mounting rings
* Installation of chrome TonePros locking bridge and tailpiece with matching studs in body
* Set-up of bridge and nut for heavy gauge strings
* Move neck strap button from Epiphone position to the Gibson one (neck joint), using chrome buttons
* Installation of shielded metal pickguard with mirror diamond plate finish
I've taken a lot of photos as it progressed, the following are just some of the more interesting ones.
Warpigs installed but before the other mods began:
(http://i.imgur.com/jGxQIzi.jpg)
I made a template from a cereal box to send to the person who made the harness for me (original pots with Orange Drop cap in picture):
(http://i.imgur.com/I5ZyJvC.jpg)
Test fitting the new harness with the push-push tone pot:
(http://i.imgur.com/d3P3oh7.jpg)
The first coat of shielding paint:
(http://i.imgur.com/j36ANOZ.jpg)
I used this Foredom SR Flex Shaft with a small sanding drum to enlarge the holes in the top for the pots:
(http://i.imgur.com/6pzzGkg.jpg)
The enlarged holes:
(http://i.imgur.com/6wFqYqR.jpg)
Test-fitting the new CTS pots:
(http://i.imgur.com/PkGrUTX.jpg)
On first try the wires were too long and had to be trimmed down:
(http://i.imgur.com/4njlwHq.jpg)
The channel from the pickguard cavity to the control cavity was a tight fit for all those big shielded wires. Remember the pickup wires need to go through there too!
(http://i.imgur.com/YXLccsw.jpg)
Eventually I squeezed them through:
(http://i.imgur.com/d4CS3Vi.jpg)
Everything soldered together:
(http://i.imgur.com/15GvnXH.jpg)
Another tight fit!!!
(http://i.imgur.com/6y3Qzkn.jpg)
Push-push master tone in down position:
(http://i.imgur.com/BvlrUP3.jpg)
Push-push master tone in up position:
(http://i.imgur.com/gS3dSH8.jpg)
Here you can see the Switchcraft selector switch that replaced the Epi one. All of the gold hardware is being replaced eventually
(http://i.imgur.com/gtV2Pti.jpg)
I hope people find these photos interesting/helpful!
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Nice job, looking nice and tidy.
So have you heard a big difference in sound so far?
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man i need another explorer.
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Nice job, looking nice and tidy.
So have you heard a big difference in sound so far?
I haven't put strings on it since finishing this part of the work today. I have some new tuners on the way so if I can install those without taking it to the tech I will do that first, or otherwise I will just string it up with the old tuners (which are still perfectly fine, just that they are the wrong colour). The new ones are basically the same (Epis come stock with Grover minis) but these are the locking type. If there is a difference it will be where the screws go in. Looking at the one I took off and the photos on the web they look very similar, but the hole might be in a different place, it's hard to say
I've played it with the Warpigs through the stock pots and the Orange Drop. Hopefully this harness brightens it up a bit. The pots I was given are actually above spec (i.e., over 510K). If nothing else there should be a brighter sound available via the bypass switch, which give a sound brighter than 1meg pots. Explorers are quite dark sounding guitars. The Warpigs are brighter than the Mighty Mites Motherbuckers that were in it, and certainly more 'open' and less compressed. The sound from the pickups when I had it together before was great for mid-70s Black Sabbath and old school death metal. I'm hoping that when all of these mods are complete I will have a broader spectrum of sounds available, even possibly an early Venom sound if I am lucky. That might be pushing it though, as their sound was quite bright.
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Are your pup cavities and the cavity under the guard connected to electrical ground? Or are the cavities just painted and not connected to ground? I imagine the control cavity will be grounded via the pots.
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Are your pup cavities and the cavity under the guard connected to electrical ground? Or are the cavities just painted and not connected to ground? I imagine the control cavity will be grounded via the pots.
I might fit another wire if I have problems but at the moment the ground is purely by contact (like you suggest with the pots). I painted in the channels between the cavities with the shielding paint, so that if you place one of the tips of my multimeter in either pickup cavity and place the other in the control cavity you get a loud beep, as loud as you get with both in the control cavity. It is of course possible that shoving the wires though might wear off the paint and break the connection, to avoid this as much as possible I painted across the top of the guitar so that not only does the shielding paint under the pickguard contact the shielding in the three cavities but also the cavities are joined by another route. I also painted around the top of the selector switch cavity a bit to give more contact. If I find that it sounds overly dark and I think that is due to the poor grounding of the shield I will add another wire in the selector switch cavity attached to the floor of that and to the pickguard and feed that wire down into the control cavity and solder it to the back of the neck volume pot. Here's a photo of it after the second coat of shielding paint and just before I assembled it.
(http://i.imgur.com/05z1Y1b.jpg)
It's a very nice multimeter, by the way. Avoid the cheapies, they're useless.
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ah! i see
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I would suggest running a wire from each of the shielded cavities - use a solder lug and a small screw to fix it down and make contact with the shielding.
Each of those wires should terminate on the back of the pot where the earth wire from the jack comes in
That way you will have an effective Faraday cage to keep the unwanted noise away from your wires.
A badly or ungrounded screened cavity is actually an antenna for noise - the earth path is very important
We do this with ALL our custom builds - the nickel paint works a treat (it needs to as it's expensive)
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Thanks, I'll have a look into that. The pickups have to come out again anyway in the near future when the triple shot pickup rings are fitted. Would I need seperate wires all going down to the pots or would a junction in the selector switch cavity and then one wire to the pots be sufficient? How do you attach a wire to the underside of the pickguard?
Also, my SG Junior with the Stockholm P-90 feeds back like crazy if I stand anywhere near my amp. Would the same shielding paint fix that problem, or would I need to do something different?
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Hey, thanks for that amazingly in-depth post about your Explorer. Very helpful to those of us just dipping our toes in the world of tech.
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hot 8)
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Looks fab mate! I have to get me an Explorer, preferable in plain mahogany.
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That bright yellow you can see in some of the pics is the wood (korina).
I tend to think it's a little brighter than mahogany, but not by a lot
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Great in depth post, keep us updated!
Now if only Gibson would reissue the 1984 Explorer without the pickguard in Hetfield Style I'd be all over the place to get one :lol:
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I'm getting a new pickguard for mine but not that Hetfield 'St Anger' era look of the five-checker plate. It will be the Dimebag diamond plate look, like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/SEDwlI7.jpg)
Great for blinding people Phil Lynott style :lol:
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I'm getting a new pickguard for mine but not that Hetfield 'St Anger' era look of the five-checker plate. It will be the Dimebag diamond plate look, like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/SEDwlI7.jpg)
Great for blinding people Phil Lynott style :lol:
please don't buy a mesa rectifier 8)
I always wanted to put a diamond plate in the washburn dime 333 I had, but couldn't find anyone that would cut a plate in the shape of the guitar (and it would get heavy as $%&#)
I like the cracked mirror plates too
acrylic mirror plates crack quite easily and look great
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Ha ha, no danger of me buying a Mesa Recto. They are really expensive in Australia and I don't like the sound much anyway.
I figured that with the black pickups with black bolts and then black pickup rings I would need something chromey to balance out the look with the chrome bridge, tuners, and tailpiece, hence the mirror pickguard. The diamond plate is just a bit of a tribute to Dimebag and I thought it looked better than plain mirror.
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Agent Orange, I was actually referring to this baby:
http://www.cesaremattei.com/guitars/images/Gibson-Ex-1984.jpg (http://www.cesaremattei.com/guitars/images/Gibson-Ex-1984.jpg)
I see however how my post was misread, should have written "if only Gibson would release the 1984 Hetfield Style Explorer, the one without pickguard" :lol:
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That's a nice one!
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I'm still waiting for the chrome grovers to arrive in the post - how can it take a week to go from Perth to Adelaide? - but in the meantime the pickguard arrived from Germany and the flat Triple Shots have been exchanged for archtop ones (I will sand the bottom of the bridge ring flat) to get the angle on the pickup. Here are some photos of them test-fitted. I will make sure they fit and then wait for the bridge and tailpiece to arrive before taking it to Dr Guitar in Happy Valley to have these parts fitted. The only stuff that has me worried is the Triple Shots and the new chrome studs into the body for the new bridge and tailpiece (I bought a full set from TonePros), but I can't fit the pickguard until then because the old pickup rings are oversized and do not fit with the new pickguard (the old one had been cut). I've also put some of that foam that comes in the BKP boxes into the bottoms of the pickup cavities to reduce vibration/feedback
(http://i.imgur.com/ZgFbYCi.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FnXDujP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Jxi8KXT.jpg)
Might also be interesting for anyone who hasn't seen the underneath of a (long leg) Warpig, Aftermath, or Juggernaut
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I followed this guy's advice (from this site (http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?182429-Tripleshot-Shot-for-SG)):
Even though, for SG flat tops, they only come in short, non-angled, you can still use the tall angled version made for arch-top. It may not fit perfectly against the SG's flat top, but it still fits fine. There is just a little space under the center of the ring, which doesn't negatively affect anything, and you can't even see it.
However, if you want a perfect fit, it is very easy to take the tall, angled TS for arched top guitars and make the bottom flat to fit SG type guitars. Just hold some 150 grit sandpaper tightly on a flat suface (tabletop, workbench, etc) and rub the TS back and forth until the bottom is flat. Finish up with some 220 or 360 grit and you're done. Quick (about 2 minutes max), easy, NO additional cost or time waiting for Duncan to start manufacturing the correct ring.
Bad mistake. He might have been lucky. One slip-up with the cable under the triple shot touching the sandpaper and I destroyed the bridge triple shot. Only $70 down the drain!! These things are very flimsy. Don't do this, even if you read that it's easy! You can hardly see the damage in the next photo but believe me it's there. Note the bit of red missing on the ribbon.
(http://i.imgur.com/7Yz0CIJ.jpg)
I'll now have to find a plain black pickup ring and use that, and only have a triple shot in the neck position (which is where I really needed it, anyway). I also wouldn't recommend the triple shot in the bridge position because the switches sit very high and get in the way of your pick and hand.
On a more positive note, the TonePros bridge and tailpiece set and the chrome locking Grover tuners arrived today. I installed the latter and then replaced the stock Epi bridge and tailpiece, and added the Dunlop Heavy Core strings to test them out. Not sure if its the strings or the overall setup but nothing sounds right at the moment. I'm just doing it for testing purposes at the moment and the guitar will soon go to the tech for the rest of the mods but I'm hoping I'll get it sounding at least as good as it did before the mods soon with some height tweaks. On the positive side the volume bypass does make the guitar noticeably brighter when engaged, so that's working
It might be the case that I need better grounding for the shielding but I suspect the strings are a big part of the problem, and possibly the fact that the bridge has not been properly set up for the bigger strings. I think I will switch to another set before taking it in for setup. I don't like that heavy unwound G.
Here are some more photos:
(http://i.imgur.com/8s6CBIE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cfqzYgb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0anlBhX.jpg)
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Nice project! You can't go wrong the tripleshots! Also nice choice going all chrome. I never have liked gold hardware!
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Nice project! You can't go wrong the tripleshots!
Cheers, but actually I did go wrong with the triple shots ... I managed to destroy the bridge one. They are a very delicate design. I'm hoping that after the neck one is installed it will hold up. Other than that the project has been going well so far, although I'm not sure if I need to add some more ground wiring for the shield. It's sounding a bit odd; if I can't get rid of that with the usual height adjustments etc I might have to remove the strings again and screw/solder in some more wires. Other than that all that is left is the stuff that I have to get a tech to do, like installing those inserts in the body
The chrome hardware is going to make a huge difference visually. I really like the look of the chrome tuners on the headstock now
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Now I seem to be losing sound every now and then. I wonder if a hot is touching shielding somewhere? I'll have to pull the jack out and the pickguard off and have a look. Some black electrical tape on the shielding where there might be contact would do the trick? If it's not that then maybe I have a loose wire or a faulty tone pot. The guitar seems to go completely quiet when I turn the tone right down, which does not seem right. Hmmm
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Now I seem to be losing sound every now and then. I wonder if a hot is touching shielding somewhere? I'll have to pull the jack out and the pickguard off and have a look.
Did you shield the hole where the jack socket sits? Sometimes the jack touches the shielding (but only when the cable's plugged in), and that cuts out the sound, I've seen it especially on Strats and Teles. It seems to be best to just not bother shielding those parts.
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Now I seem to be losing sound every now and then. I wonder if a hot is touching shielding somewhere? I'll have to pull the jack out and the pickguard off and have a look.
Did you shield the hole where the jack socket sits? Sometimes the jack touches the shielding (but only when the cable's plugged in), and that cuts out the sound, I've seen it especially on Strats and Teles. It seems to be best to just not bother shielding those parts.
I did, but then I realized how tight a fit it was, so then I sanded away the shielding paint. There might still be some there, so I'll try lining that opening with electrical tape
EDIT: I did line the selector switch cavity with tape near the switch itself, and ground away some more of the paint around the jack, and it seems to be working fine now. Here are a couple more photos, one of the metal pickguard fitted (and strap button moved to the back of the neck), the other of the wiring diagram. It has 500K volume pots that are bypassed when the push-push master tone pot is up. Also if you roll back any pot all the way you kill the sound. With the bypass on you can still adjust the tone. The closest thing I could think it might sound like is a set of Warpigs with 1mge volume pots and a 500K tone pot.
(http://i.imgur.com/KOq4d4l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5TdtFUB.jpg)
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That looks sweet, can't wait to see the finished result :)
If I only had the time (and more money) I'd do a complete makeover to most of my babies as well, but the day will come! Haha ^^
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The best thing will be the string changes with the locking studs on the bridge and tailpiece and the locking tuners. I'm going to change out these strings for a D'Addario Medium Top/Heavy Bottom (11-52) set before its first jam with the new crust punk band I've joined this Sunday as the Heavy Core 12-54 set is too heavy for anything higher than C standard and we are tuning to D standard. I've used an Ernie Ball Skinny Top/Heavy Bottom (10-52) set before, and I found it a little sloppy on the high strings in C#, so I'm hoping the D'Addario set will strike the right balance, especially when top-wrapped. If so then I will have the guitar set up for them when I have the new bridge and tailpiece installed. Like I said it should be a breeze when I don't have to worry about them falling off and I don't have to wind on the strings at the headstock
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Regarding the sheilding in the pickup cavities , I had a problem with this some years ago when I fitted my first ever set of BKP's into an Ibanez RG (Alnico NailBombs). Though they were certainly an improvement on the stock pups , they sounded really "boxy" and somewhat nuetered to what I was expecting and they had none of the NailBombs renowned "breathing" qualities and dynamics . I'd sheilded the cavities completely with copper foil and Tim advised me to remove this completely from the pup cavities and said that only single coils and unstacked P90s need sheilded pickup cavities to stop them being microphonic and feeding back too easily and that humbuckers don't need it , quite the reverse in fact , though he did say to leave the controls cavity sheilded and earthed . I removed the copper foil from the pickup cavities and what a transformation , everything I was hoping for from the NailBombs.
So if that great looking Explorer of yours doesn't sound how you'd hoped when you finish it , try unsheilding the pickup cavities. :)
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A lot easier to do with foil than with paint!
I would need to use a grinder to get the paint out. That or simply move the pickups into another guitar.
The main issue with shielding is usually a break in the ground between the pickup cavities and the control cavity. This has not been an issue with mine so far, just because I was so thorough with the paint brush. If the shield is broken the pickup cavities can then become an aerial for noise rather than removing it. You need to have continuity right from the pickup cavity walls to the output jack, which I have
It all seems to sound good so far, better than it did before I started the mods. Most of this is due to the pots and harness, but the shielding does not seem to be hurting the sound as far as I can tell.
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Well, as I have mentioned elsewhere, I have been starting to feel that the Explorer sounds too dark with the Warpigs, and that it is not a usuable backup for my Stockholm-loaded SG Junior in my new d-beat punk band where I am tuned to D standard. So today I removed the bridge pickup and replaced it with the A-Bomb I had laying around, the one I hated in my SG Standard because it was too nasal and middy. I adjusted the bridge and pickup heights and it sounds great!!! Much better than in the SG, and a very viable backup to my SG Junior in a live setting.
I just need to decide now on a neck pickup to replace the Warpig. I'm thinking either a Nailbomb, VHII, or Rebel Yell humbucker, or else a Stockholm HSP-90. I'm leaning toward either the first (NB) or last (SH) options. Any advice? The other alternative would be a HSP-90 size Supermassive.
The Stockholm set has a much smaller difference in output between neck and bridge than the Nailbomb set, even though the resistance readings of the bridge in each are very close. Any ideas why? This seems to be the case across the P-90 sets compared to HB sets.
I got the black plastic Gibson pickup rings in the mail yesterday and used that as an excuse to install the Nailbomb and a set of Ernie Ball Beefy Slinky strings. The new strings are a huge improvement on the Dunlop Heavy Cores, which I totally hated. I find the Beefy Slinky to be similar in feel to the D'Addario EXL116 set I installed in my SG Junior recently.
(http://i.imgur.com/lBaJi7S.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bVurE6C.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tdb5b9v.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KGCqPZR.jpg)
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The guitar looks alot better with the covered pickup. The pickguard somehow reminds me of Hetfield's ESP explorer on the I Disappear video, which is one of my favourite guitars of his.
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The guitar looks alot better with the covered pickup. The pickguard somehow reminds me of Hetfield's ESP explorer on the I Disappear video, which is one of my favourite guitars of his.
I agree. There is also less problems with the pickup tilting in the pickup ring, which has been an issue with the uncovered pickups. I've never read anyone say this before but it seems that the tighter fit really helps.
I'm currently tossing up between a Stockholm and a Nailbomb for the neck slot, either one chrome covered.
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The crew at BKP are back at work on January 2 - I just received an email to say that the Nailbomb neck pickup for my Explorer has been posted 8)
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"Posted" as in "mailed"? That was quick! :o
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Yes. I placed the order last weekend after a conversation with Ben regarding when they would be back at work. He said they would be back Monday, which was when they started processing my order (i.e., my credit card was charged) and then it was sent out on their next day back at work (January 2). I'll probably have it here within ten days. BKP provide the best service! 8)
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Yep, that was quick indeed.
I'm finding that there is a big diference between orders with regular covers (like your's) and custom etched ones, which was kind of expected.
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Yes. I placed the order last weekend after a conversation with Ben regarding when they would be back at work. He said they would be back Monday, which was when they started processing my order (i.e., my credit card was charged) and then it was sent out on their next day back at work (January 2). I'll probably have it here within ten days. BKP provide the best service! 8)
Pickup arrived today :)
One interesting point I've noticed with recent orders: ratings on the card seem to consistently be higher than those on the BKP website for the relevant pickup.
In this case:
Advertised: 9.8KΩ
Tested: 10.3KΩ
Not complaining, just wondering if it is a trend.
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Put the Nailbomb neck pickup in today, didn't take very long - I'm getting used to installing pickups. I didn't even swear or lose a spring under the counter for five minutes at a time, or burn my fingers with the iron.
I left the highest and lowest strings on so that the bridge and tailpiece wouldn't fall off and then slid the pickup out after disconnecting everything. Then I left the low string from the Beefy Slinky set on and replaced the others with the Rotosounds so that I could try out the songs I've been writing to make sure they all work in Drop D as well as D standard (my usual tuning).
I adjusted the pickup height and got the cleans sounding really good. I haven't really played any leads on it much as yet but it does a fuzzy stoner sounding rhythm sound through my Classic 30 with the Black Secret turned on.
I think it looks much better with the chrome covers. Next and final stage is to take it to the tech to have the chrome tailpiece and bridge bushings (together with the rest of the TonePros set) installed and have it set up with a new set of Beefy Slinky strings and a TUSQ nut.
(http://i.imgur.com/N8oH25n.jpg)
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Looks great :D
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Just got the guitar back from Peter Jenkins (Dr Guitar, Happy Valley, South Australia) who did a full set-up and installed the Tonepros bridge and tailpiece set, finishing the transformation to chrome hardware. The ferrules that came in the kit were the wrong size though, so he had to source others in chrome in the correct size. Something to be aware of if ordering a Tonepros metric kit for an Epiphone.
So now it's finished and plays great!
(http://i.imgur.com/mgKfZMW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6b9zY6w.jpg)
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Okay, so I finally got it outside and took a decent photo.
Guitar is finished now and plays really well. Like a completely new guitar.
(http://i.imgur.com/gAp7YbW.jpg)
And this is what it looked like before I started with the mods (I think it looks much better now!!):
(http://i.imgur.com/DAsI9F6.jpg)
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Looks great now, congrats!
If you are anything like me, you'll start thinking right away about another guitar to pick up and mod :lol:
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Yep certainly looks much better without the gold :D
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Yep certainly looks much better without the gold :D
I detest gold hardware! Never again!
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That guitar looks killer now - good job!
Cheers Stephan