Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Jarowskij on November 12, 2013, 11:29:23 AM
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I'd like to try out a bareknuckle but I keep hearing that even the hotter ones have less out put compared to duncans etc. My main guitar has a duncan distortion and I quite like it and I would like my other guitars to somewhat match the output level. Purely talking about output what bareknuckle would be in the same ballpark with the distortion? Cpig? Ceramic black hawk?
Thanks for your help!
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According to SD website Duncans distortion have following outputs:
Neck: 12.7 k
Bridge: 16.6 k
(all approx)
Miracle Man, Painkiller, and Warpigs (of course :lol:). Aftermath is slightly less output, but I suppose that the difference wouldn`t be that obvious.
and that`s the humbuckers only, but I pressume that`s what you`re after.
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But is it that simple? I've read people say that a painkiller doesn't have as much output as the distortion and a lot people have said that the aftermath is more like medium-high output or something like that. This is confusing :D
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Well, I was using info provided on the BKP website and compared them to SD distortion stats.
From experience I can tell that output might be disorienting sometimes.
Currently I have CBomb bridge and Cold Sweat neck. And they are around 16k bridge and 8.3 neck.
Previously in neck position I had Dean DMT Michael Angelo Batio signature pickups which was around 12k. According to the stats, vast difference, tone-wise even that the CS is less output it sounds waaay beeter what Dean DMT. It handles distortion waaaay better as well as clean sounds.
And was using them in the same music, playing the same thing (mostly rock/metal)
So my advise would be if the differences are minimal and slight, don`t bother. If you like the sound and the tone of the BKP (or any other pickup) go for it and don`t bother with 1k or so difference.
Obviously when you compare pickups like 17k to 7k, you`ll see that they differ a lot, but other than that go after the tone than the numbers.
By the way medium-high output BKP pickup would be Juggernaut for example in comparison with Painkiller from the contemporary range.
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I'd like to try out a bareknuckle but I keep hearing that even the hotter ones have less out put compared to duncans etc. My main guitar has a duncan distortion and I quite like it and I would like my other guitars to somewhat match the output level. Purely talking about output what bareknuckle would be in the same ballpark with the distortion? Cpig? Ceramic black hawk?
Thanks for your help!
If you bring the black hawk into it its even more confusing because in terms of output it should be in the vintage hot or even vintage category but when you listen to it theres no way that could ever be the case!
Im sure some people will chime in but if in doubt just e-mail bkp direct.
I wouldnt base your decision completely on output that may be misleading.
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At that time when I was installing my first BKP pup - Cbomb in the bridge position I`ve noticed truly huge improvement to the Dean stock zebra pickup.
Bridge ceramic Nailbomb pickup is around 16k, shame that I haven`t measure stock one at that time, but I pressume that it was quite similar due to the fact that Dean Cadillacs are more rock/metal guitars. So DC resistances should be about the same.
Stock Dean zebra pup was really weak and thin and lifeless in comparison with CBomb, so I suppose DC resistance is not the only factor you should consider.
Type of the magnet used matters a lot as well.
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DC resistance does not equal output. There are more variables that determine the final output of a pickup such as wire gauge (thinner wire has more DC resistance) and magnets. Therefore any DC resistance comparisons will not tell you the real story.
I believe the better way to approach this is to ask what are you missing from your current pickup and then start to select.
Cheers Stephan
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Compression makes stuff sound louder. I thought the Mighty Mite Motherbuckers that were in my Explorer were louder than the Warpigs I put into it, even though the resistance figures are around the same. The difference is slight though, and the Warpigs are much more expansive and have much better definition. They are certainly very hot as compared to the Nailbomb I had they always sounded like I had a boost on, and overdrive my Peavey to the point where I am installing coil split switches to enable true cleans when I want them. By comparison the Mighty Mites sounded like I had my Custom Comp turned on. I doubt there are much more powerful pickups to be had
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Direct comparison info
I used to be a Duncan Distortion user (George Lynch fanboy) and I swapped over to Miracle Man
Similar output level but the MM had more low mids which made it sound more muscular and while the top end on the MM was crisp & clear it was less fizzy than the Distortion.
So my Lynch obsessed ears heard it as more Under Lock and Key sound and less Tooth and Nail tone.
This was all with regular tuning.
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Some things are certainly true here - DC Resistance does not equal output so it will be impossible to accurately compare on paper but all of those mentioned above should be a match for power. The other thing I find is that because Bare Knuckles have far greater articulation than pickups by either Seymour Duncan or DiMarzio, they tend not to sound as hot even though they are. BKP are just so much clearer and dynamic that it's hard to believe they're as hot as they are. They remain articulate long after Seymour Duncans have turned to mush.
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the painkiller set is BKP's take on the duncan distortion set
they aren't less hot in any way, just not overcompressed
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for a little reference i had a distortion & swapped to a painkiller. heres some clips
distortion
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9807181/Recordings/Grind%20redux.mp3
painkiller
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9807181/Recordings/Grind%20redux%20PK.mp3
The PK was hotter overall but wasnt for me
note i didnt like either and ended up using a catswhisker alnico 8 humbucker instead which suited me more. I did prefer the distortion over the PK though it was more focused & controlled in the lows imho
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Some things are certainly true here - DC Resistance does not equal output so it will be impossible to accurately compare on paper but all of those mentioned above should be a match for power. The other thing I find is that because Bare Knuckles have far greater articulation than pickups by either Seymour Duncan or DiMarzio, they tend not to sound as hot even though they are. BKP are just so much clearer and dynamic that it's hard to believe they're as hot as they are. They remain articulate long after Seymour Duncans have turned to mush.
This. The Rebel Yell I put in my SG was a replacement for a Seymour Duncan Custom (probably one step down from the Distortion) and there was a considerable loss in output. Or, at least, it certainly has less gain. I used to be able to get heavy metal on my amp with no pedal, now it goes as far as hard rock then needs a boost.
That said... you might find yourself willing take a cut in output for the increased clarity and aforementioned articulation. If you find the higher output BKPs not to your tastes tonally, don't be afraid to try one that looks like it'd be lower. There's a lot more to sounding heavy than the heat of your pickups!
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I have to say, the distortion is sounding much better to me in those clips. Tighter and chunkier. That's a kind of a disappointment :D
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That's only compared to one pickup in the range though. If I wanted 'chunky', a Painkiller wouldn't be my first port of call. Personally I'd happily sacrifice output for clarity. One of my earlier guitars came with Seymour Duncans stock and I'd ditched them in just over a week. Once I'd experienced the articulation of BKP there was no way I could settle for the mush that came with high output from Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio.
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I have to say, the distortion is sounding much better to me in those clips. Tighter and chunkier. That's a kind of a disappointment :D
You sound like you have similar tastes to me. The Miracle Man could just be the one for you. Its the only BKP I would use nowadays.
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I've never had a Duncan Distortion, but I have experience with the Seymour Duncan JB.
I can say that the Miracle Man is a bit louder in output than the JB, and much more muscular and clearer. With heavy settings that really makes it stand apart, even if it doesn't sound much louder. The Nailbomb I felt is pretty much around the same output as the JB. You really get BKPs because of the increased frequency range and the transparency, but not for the output and compression; I've always felt that many Seymour Duncans get their sound from a fairly strong output level, maybe even unneccesarily loud, that comes from quite a lot of compression especially in the mid and bass frequencies. None of them seem to have the same mid and bass transparency from BKP.
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I listened to both of those clips, and liked the tune, reminded me of early Death for some reason.
I actually liked the sound of both pickups, but liked the Painkiller a bit more, but then again I like a more aggressive sound in the mids. The PK seemed to have more high end, the SD a bit more growl
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distortion
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9807181/Recordings/Grind%20redux.mp3
painkiller
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9807181/Recordings/Grind%20redux%20PK.mp3
Sounded very similar to me - the PK maybe a tad brighter and with a bit more attack to the tone. But I don't really play this style of music.
Cheers Stephan
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I've never had a Duncan Distortion, but I have experience with the Seymour Duncan JB.
I've always felt that many Seymour Duncans get their sound from a fairly strong output level, maybe even unneccesarily loud, that comes from quite a lot of compression especially in the mid and bass frequencies. None of them seem to have the same mid and bass transparency from BKP.
That's exactly my experience as well. With the JB, it was like I had only midrange frequencies, no dynamics and the volume control worked like an on-off switch - off at 0 and full on from 1-10. Can't speak for the Distortion or Custom as I have never played them.
Cheers Stephan
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The thing is, I play thrash/death metal and for that kind of stuff you need a little bit of compression and not so much dynamics. I pick very hard and most of our songs are pretty fast, so I need my sound to "help me out" in a way, otherwise my right hand is gonna fall off :D I'm not talking about Cannibal Corpse levels of gain and compression but a super dry and super dynamic sound just doesn't fit this type of music in my opinion. I love a tight chug and precise attack, but also a little compression so I don't have to fight the guitar too much cause I'm picking hard and pretty fast pretty much all the time.
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The thing is, I play thrash/death metal and for that kind of stuff you need a little bit of compression and not so much dynamics. I pick very hard and most of our songs are pretty fast, so I need my sound to "help me out" in a way, otherwise my right hand is gonna fall off :D I'm not talking about Cannibal Corpse levels of gain and compression but a super dry and super dynamic sound just doesn't fit this type of music in my opinion. I love a tight chug and precise attack, but also a little compression so I don't have to fight the guitar too much cause I'm picking hard and pretty fast pretty much all the time.
I think if you had to pick some thing from the bkp range the black hawk would suit you best. I play the nailbomb because I have have to play lots of stuff but if I was just playing thrash or death type stuff id definitely choose the black hawk because it just does the extreme metal thing .....extremely well....
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Yeah, I was thinking the ceramic black hawk might be something I'd like. The miracle man seems maybe a little too scooped because I like a healthy dose of midrange in my sound. It's always trial and error with trying pickups but I guess you win some and lose some :lol:
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Yeah, I was thinking the ceramic black hawk might be something I'd like. The miracle man seems maybe a little too scooped because I like a healthy dose of midrange in my sound. It's always trial and error with trying pickups but I guess you win some and lose some :lol:
Definitely! I much prefer them to the miracle man any way not really versatile but perfect for heavy metal. I definitely have a thing for bkp but there are the odd other pickups that catch my attention I still like emg's but also lace nitro hemi's.
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I listened to both of those clips, and liked the tune, reminded me of early Death for some reason.
I actually liked the sound of both pickups, but liked the Painkiller a bit more, but then again I like a more aggressive sound in the mids. The PK seemed to have more high end, the SD a bit more growl
Ha! I was on a bit of a death listening spree when writing that. The PK does work really well for that kinda thing.
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The miracle man seems maybe a little too scooped because I like a healthy dose of midrange in my sound. I
This is why i like the MM loads of low mids & not much high mids which is perfect for thrash. For middier tones well that's what my amps for which is a very high mid based amp.
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the ceramic nailbomb has a bit of both
aggressive and punchy
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The miracle man seems maybe a little too scooped because I like a healthy dose of midrange in my sound. I
This is why i like the MM loads of low mids & not much high mids which is perfect for thrash. For middier tones well that's what my amps for which is a very high mid based amp.
I agree. The Miracle Man is nothing like as scooped as the EQ chart suggests, it's just that most of the mids are lower mids which combine with the bass to give it a really huge bottom end as well as some screaming highs for solos.
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I've never had a Duncan Distortion, but I have experience with the Seymour Duncan JB.
Contrary to what many people say, the Distortion is not just a JB with an oversized ceramic magnet. It's more of a variation on a theme, so I don't know that one can accurately compare their experience with the JB to the DD.
From my experience, the JB is cr@p and the Distortion is the best pickup for lower tunings that I've ever used (I have it in an Ibby Prestige RG2550 in B standard).
Duncan makes a more 'modern' version of the Distortion: the Parallel Axis Distortion. It's hotter than the original, supposedly.