Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Pilsner on November 22, 2013, 02:58:00 PM
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Hello Lads n' Ladies! Really nice and friendly forum you've got cooking over here.
After reading til' my eyes bleed i finally decided to pop the question myself. Right now i'm leaning towards an Warpig (alnico V) for the bridge and a Crawler (alnico IV) for the neck, but i'm far from sure. The situation is as follows:
I've had my Ibanez SZ520QM for 6-7 years and i decided it's time to kick things up a notch. It's got a mahogany body with quilted maple top, set-in mahogany 25,1 scale neck and the Gibraltar III bridge. The stock pups are basically clones of the JB and 59 Duncans, and although they're quite versatile they never really excel at anything. It's wired with a 3-way switch and the middle position is split coil. I will most likely keep this, and maybe even redo some of the wiring and change it for a 5-way switch to be able to split the pups separately for even more versatility.
Main inspirations: Motorpsycho, Amplifier, Mastodon, Elder, Cult of Luna, Russian Circles, Josh Homme, Brant Björk, Opeth, Tool, old early 70's swedish prog, Hendrix, Sabbath, Zappa, Eddie Hazel.
I play in a trio, where i also have the pleasure of playing bass a lot so i know the importance of matching these two tones together to get a nice end result. I use a lot of pedals. Amongst others: delay, flanger, octave, chorus, wah, and during hazy nights i like to use my fuzz factory and go to Sleep... ;)
Wishes and desires: I like pickups that are responsive to my right hand action going from quite clear and mellow to a more edgy driven sound depending on my playing. We jam A LOT and i usually run single channel amps so it really has to respond well to volume changes.
Cleans: Soundwise i'm looking for ballsy and creamy, lush and somewhat jazzy cleans that break up nicely without sounding brittle and twangy. I do a lot of droning delay-echoey "post" stuff.
Dirty/Hi Gain: Gritty, thick and reaaally heavy without very much treble but enough mids to cut through. I love the tones of Elder, earlier Mastodon and later Cult of Luna when it comes to distortion.
So, what would you recommend me getting?
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You could try the alnico Warpig as that's supposed to have some nice jazzy tones in it but dial in some gain and it's super heavy.
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warpig set sounds right
maybe with a coil split for some fuzzy stuff
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Thanks for the replies, guys.
Would you say that it's more of the same tone or are they made to really complement each other when set up in pairs?
Somehow the Crawler, and the idea of having two tones in one guitar if i pair it with a pig, really speaks to me. What are the possible cons of combining two different pickup models? Cause it seems to me that using two different models would increase the tonal range of the guitar and it's usually neck OR bridge pickup, and not both at the same time. Am i wrong here? 8)
/Fred
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Personally I tend to prefer a neck and bridge that sound good together in the middle position, not because I play that way (pretty much never) but because I switch between them within a song, and I pretty much never play just on the neck (although I will play just on the bridge a lot of the time). A neck pickup to me is not something I'd ever play for a whole song. I tend to prefer a set for this reason, and to get an additional guitar if I want a completely different sound. Versatility in a guitar can be overrated, a little like true bypass in a pedal. It's not always the best option, but if it works in a given application then that's good. I have a hardcore guitar (Stockholm bridge), a rock/metal guitar (Cold Sweat set) and a grindcore guitar (Warpig set). The hardcore guitar can back up the grindcore guitar and the rock guitar can back up the hardcore guitar. The hardcore guitar can also back up the rock guitar in a pinch, given that I don't use the neck pickup much at all.
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Personally I tend to prefer a neck and bridge that sound good together in the middle position, not because I play that way (pretty much never) but because I switch between them within a song, and I pretty much never play just on the neck (although I will play just on the bridge a lot of the time). A neck pickup to me is not something I'd ever play for a whole song. I tend to prefer a set for this reason, and to get an additional guitar if I want a completely different sound. Versatility in a guitar can be overrated, a little like true bypass in a pedal. It's not always the best option, but if it works in a given application then that's good. I have a hardcore guitar (Stockholm bridge), a rock/metal guitar (Cold Sweat set) and a grindcore guitar (Warpig set). The hardcore guitar can back up the grindcore guitar and the rock guitar can back up the hardcore guitar. The hardcore guitar can also back up the rock guitar in a pinch, given that I don't use the neck pickup much at all.
You've got a solid point there and thanks for all the info. Maybe it's somewhat like crossbreeding a Jeep and a Ferrari but at the moment i only have one guitar with humbuckers, so i wanna get the most out of it.. In this guitar the stock bridge pickup is very thin and crispy, so i hardly ever use it except for split coil sounds (and even then it's turned down to 20-30%). And since it's only a three-way switch it's either neck, split coil or bridge, if i'm not mistaken.
(and by the way: Do you have to enter all of the verifications every single time you post, or is there a way to disable it?)
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I don't remember any verifications. Maybe it is only the first few times?
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It is important to note that the BKP set are not jsut more of the same. The neck is not the bridge with an adjusted wind. While it is truer for the vintage models, as that is just the way things were, the contemporary sets are mostly two different PUs that just work well together. Prominent example is the Emerald. Bridge is bright, neck is very smooth. The HD is somewhat the other way around. They are based on certain sound ideas and then set up to compliment each other and work as a unit. That can mean that they do nicely different takes on the same idea or put in different ideas which mix nicely.
This is also the reason why mixing and matching is quite popular here, see the Abomb bridge CS neck or the HD bridge Emerald neck as examples, but while this can work great you gotta be careful. With a set you are kinda on the save side, as it might not always be exactly what you want, which is why we mix and match, but you won´t find something that is totally off.
There are things that just don´t match well and in my mind WP Crawler is one of those, at least in my mind. Not that you could not do what you want with the Crawler neck, but together with the WP...I just think it is not great. It generally is harder to mix with the WP I think, there are a few options, but when you take into account your wishes...well there really is the WP neck. From what you describe for your tones it just seems to fit very well. Put in a split or series parralel mod, perhaps both if you got the pots, and you really got a set that delivers the sounds you describe and can be more versatile than you would think.
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Thanks for the excellent clarification, Kiichi!
I've noticed around here some folks mixing the WP with the MQ and they seem to like it. And on paper that pup is quite far away from the WP.
But maybe a calibrated set of alnico Warpigs is really the way to go on this one. I will probably do a series/parallell mod when i'm at it.
I've been sifting through so many videos trying to find something that's not crust or chuggachugga metal with the a-pigs, but without much luck. If anyone knows about some clips worth checking out i'd be happy if you could post a link here, or point me in the right direction. 8)
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I'm certainly one of those that mix and match a lot. I have owned a Cold Sweat set before and it was a great match so no worries there but it's the only time I've kept them together. I do own a Holydiver set but they're not together as I like the Emerald neck with the Holydiver bridge while I use the Holydiver neck with a Crawler bridge. I'd agree with Kiichi (I usually do) that an A-Pig bridge and Crawler neck isn't likely to be a match made in heaven. The Crawler neck is a very vintage sounding pickup so not an obvious partner for a Warpig and then there's the issue of whether such a light wind would be able to keep up with such a hot pickup in the bridge. I think I'd be tempted to stick with the Warpig set.
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Thanks for the excellent clarification, Kiichi!
I've noticed around here some folks mixing the WP with the MQ and they seem to like it. And on paper that pup is quite far away from the WP.
Glad to be of help =)
I have seen that around too, but I can see it work and would like to try sometime. Still got an MQ lying around after all. The reason I can see that work is for one that the MQ is suprisingly strong in output, so actually able to not be swallowed up by the WP. On top of that, both are A5 magnets, so you got that modern cut. If I recall correctly the wires also either the same or similar (in both departments the Crawler is different I believe). In addition to the power and cut, P90s have an destinct roar in the midrange which befits the WP and also agression. They can scream and sing like crazy. And while the MQ is in essence vintage it is very versatile. Can go from cleans over classic rock to...well you know what Muse does.
In that configuration the neck would be brighter than the bridge, but you can roll down the tone on P90s for lovely effect.
On the count of WP, Fourth Feline here has been using WPs in I believe it was a semi hollow or hollowbody for Jazz. Here is one clip of his, there are 1 or 2 other still: https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=27976.msg365936#msg365936 (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=27976.msg365936#msg365936)
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I've been sifting through so many videos trying to find something that's not crust or chuggachugga metal with the a-pigs, but without much luck. If anyone knows about some clips worth checking out i'd be happy if you could post a link here, or point me in the right direction. 8)
Try this (it's seven-string though):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFXoM97eVco (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFXoM97eVco)
I have an A-Pig set. While you should be fine with the bridge pickup consider adding a push-push pot for the neck pickup. You can wire this up as a coil split and then move the wires around and try it as a series-parallel switch too and see which you like the best. Either should give more of a clean sound basically because it reduces the output of the pickup. The Warpigs push the pre-amp very hard, and depending on your amp you might find that is enough to preclude true cleans. Another alternative, which I am soon to try, is a Seymour Duncan Triple Shot pickup ring, which will give you options of either coil split and series/parallel
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Again, thanks for the feedback.
At the moment i'm mostly playing through two amps - which i mix to get my sound. It's a Orange TT that's been my practice amp for the last six years but has now moved to the studio, and a old 70's Randall RG200 solid state.
The whole P90-thing caught my ears, so maybe a P90 neck and a pig in the bridge. I'll have to delve deeper into that. Anybody know about the differences between the P90 and the humbucker pig? I'm also thinking that the MQ (or the SM, for that matter) might be better opted for fuzz-pedals since hot humbuckers tend to sound mushy and are a lot harder to control. At least that's my experience when playing through my fuzz factory. It is a LOT easier to control that beast with single coils.
Another thing i like about the P90's is the more defined clean sound. So maybe a MQ in the neck for added clarity, sparkle and shine, and a WP in the bridge is the way to go. Versatile, but not all over the place.
So it's either a WP set and i try this mod Agent Orange is talking about with the Duncan triple shot ring, or a Pig + MQ(SM) combo with the pig wired for split/series-parallell. Any thoughts on this? i'll stop nagging soon, i promise.. ;)
Just saw this clip and the MQ's sound beautiful here. Tonewise they should complement the A-pig very well, i think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6aX_g8MQq8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6aX_g8MQq8)
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I think the WP/MQ combo will give you a really interesting range of sounds and I totally understand what you're saying about P90 pups. I've never been all that struck on single coils but P90s just give so much more beef to the tone while retaining clarity. Having said that, I've never yet come across a BKP humbucker that turns to mush in the way that other pickups do so you may be very pleasantly surprised.
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I just spoke with Ben from BKP and he recommended me getting a supermassive HB-sized P90 instead of the MQ since the outputs match better. I'm gonna give it one more thinkabout before ordering but it's most likely the combination I'll go for.
And thanks again for all your help, lads. I'll be sure to share my thoughts and impressions later on.
Cheers
Fred
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I wonder if they can do a HB size Pig 90 neck pickup for you? I don't know if a Pig 90 can manage a clean tone but overdriven it would probably be amazing
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I'm sure they can as Tim told me he could do any of the P90 pups in a humbucker size but the Supermassive sounds like it would be a good match to me.
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I dare say that the Supermassive is the closest in output while still retaining a true clean tone, otherwise Ben would have recommended the Stockholm neck.
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I dare say that the Supermassive is the closest in output while still retaining a true clean tone, otherwise Ben would have recommended the Stockholm neck.
Well, he actually told me to order a Stockholm but add "humbuckersized supermassive p90" in the comments box, so it seems like you really know your Ben. :)
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I wonder if they can do a HB size Pig 90 neck pickup for you? I don't know if a Pig 90 can manage a clean tone but overdriven it would probably be amazing
I had a set made a long time back that was an C-Pig bridge and Mississippipig neck. It was a bit full on and if I did it again, I'd probably just have gone for the straight MQ neck.
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So i hooked up the supermassive and no problems there.
But the thing is with installing the warpig - its got one more wire than the one I replaced. I don't know where to solder the south finish (white).
The pickup selector is a weird story with twelve connections on the back. I first thought that I would just swap out the old Duncan, but what to do with the south finish?
Do I just hook it up together with the north finish (green)?
EDIT:
I hooked it up according to the "standard humbucker installation principles" without split coil but the warpig sounds weak and brittle. I noticed that the magnetic field is much stronger on the row of bolts closest to the bridge - should i turn it around? Could it be something else?
I've included a pic of the wiring as it was done before swapping the mics out. The original pups only have three wires + gnd.
The other pic is of the pickup selector. If there's anyone with experience with this model, please advice. I thought it would just be to wire the P90 according to the drawing and then swapping out the bridge HB, but it's probably not that simple..
EDIT2: https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31064.0
Problem solved. :D
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I just spoke with Ben from BKP and he recommended me getting a supermassive HB-sized P90 instead of the MQ since the outputs match better. I'm gonna give it one more thinkabout before ordering but it's most likely the combination I'll go for.
I'd go with Ben's advice. I've had some conversations with him regarding P-90s before and I know he is a big fan of the Supermassive. It strikes a good middle ground between the MQ and the Stockholm, giving you more bottom end than the MQ but better cleans than the Stockholm. I ended up being recommended the Stockholm bridge in a P-90 size but only when I said I wanted to use a Nailbomb as the back up. If I had a two-pickup SG to put these in I think he would have recommended a Supermassive for the neck even with the Stockholm in the bridge.
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If I had a two-pickup SG to put these in I think he would have recommended a Supermassive for the neck even with the Stockholm in the bridge.
A combo that is my absolute favorite for anything somewhat modern or agressive rock. Where the RY becomes a bit light or lacks that all out feel I use them. Go from Blink 182 to Machine Head. Big, agressive, roaring, tight, modern but with a hint of old school, etc...lovely. Anyhow you did a much better job of describing the Stockholm. Would love to see you write up a review....same goes for littleredguitar! ;)