Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Slartibartfarst42 on December 08, 2013, 07:36:34 AM
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OK, following this issue arising on another thread where I suggested that djent options were getting a little congested in the range, I'd like to propose a question to forum members:
If Tim were to say that his next pickup will reflect what forum members want so he will design a new pickup that is aimed at an area of the range not currently covered, what would it be? Other companies have designed pickups like this and Chappers even made a guitar like this so what would you want to see?
To me, the answer is simple(ish) - a Super Distortion.
We have EMG alternatives, JB alternatives and PAF alternatives etc. but so far we have nothing that is a credible alternative to one of the most iconic pickups ever made. I can't believe for a moment that Tim can't improve on what is already a very good pickup because he does it every time he makes a pickup and because of that, I stress I want a Super Distortion + from Tim so it doesn't have to be the same specs at all. For me it would look something like this:
1) Double rows of allan screws.
2) Have a substantial and very articulate bottom end with plenty mids to go with it. Maybe a cross between a Super Distortion and Super 3 I suppose.
3) Be inbetween the Holydiver and Cold Sweat in terms of hotness. Similar to the Aftermath.
4) To make it more organic sounding, I wonder if it could be done with either alnico 5, alnico 8 or an alnico 5/8 hybrid instead of ceramic.
5) Something that will work in a range of guitars. A bit like the design brief for the Crawler in that respect but a bit tighter and more Rock/Metal.
6) I want the neck version to be fat(ish), fluid and creamy in a PAF kind of way but with more cut. Something that really nails that Dave Murray tone that I always want. A few BKP models have got me close but none have nailed it for me.
The more I think about it, this is actually the pickup set I want to put in my Vintage! What would it be for you or do you also want to see a Super Distortion alternative?
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Personally I have been hoping for something diferent, like a strat pickup with tones remaniscent (spl?) of the tri-sonics. Can imagine the bkp super distortion happening much easier though :lol:
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I would at some point like a custom shop branch of BKP :-)
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I'd like something like the Di Marzio Super Distortion and the Ibanez V2 that works well in SGs. Maybe a Tom G Warrior signature pickup :lol:
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A5 Mule
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BKP filtertrons or lipsticks.
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BKP filtertrons or lipsticks.
Lipsticks for me too please. Hum-bucking double lip-sticks...
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Rather on copying and improving already existing pickup I would see something like a new pickup with really distinctive voicing and approach like it happened with Juggs. Just wondering is there any gap in BKP range what can be filled in or any other ideas that can lead to distinctive pickup that would stand out like Juggs recently.
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Not a new idea, but I'd like to see a humbucker, P90 and single coil in one pickup.
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Just thinking about blending aspects of Crawlers with VHII. Rich harmonic overtones, excellent string separation and that twangy snap with fatty, buttery, creamy voicing and full bodied tone. More Alnico V than Ceramic certainly and like Slarti mentioned, double rows of allan screws.
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Humbucker-sized Firebird pickup.
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Well, I always still have a little hope that one day the BKP mini HBs will make a return. Letīs hope they will be profitatble sometime in the future.
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From more classical/vintage point of view I would like to see BKP`s approach on Fideli'Tron humbuckers (either Fender or Gretsch ones). Like those ones from Teles Cabronitas or Telecasters Thinline Super Deluxe.
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From more classical/vintage point of view I would like to see BKP`s approach on Fideli'Tron humbuckers (either Fender or Gretsch ones). Like those ones from Teles Cabronitas or Telecasters Thinline Super Deluxe.
I have not heard much about it, but doesnīt TV Jones do those very well at resoable prices? I think I heard forum members saying that they are good. I would certainly like a set at one point for a Gretsch style (semi)hollowbody. With some of the PUs suggested here it is not easy to get good ones, especially at resonable prices, but with those it seems you actually are able to. Not to say I would not like BKPs take on them, but other things seem higher priority for me.
On the unrealistic somewhat joking side, I would love to see a horseshoemagnet PU from BKP so I can someday get a lapsteel fitted with those. That really is a dream thing for me.
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I agree with you, TV Jones makes those pickups great, but on the other hand like Slarti said in the BKP range most of the pickups are covered. We have EMGs alternative, SD JBs, ect. Wouldn`t be nice to see how BKP would approach those particular pickups style while adding something extra, that genuine BKP sparkle into it :D?
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I agree with you, TV Jones makes those pickups great, but on the other hand like Slarti said in the BKP range most of the pickups are covered. We have EMGs alternative, SD JBs, ect. Wouldn`t be nice to see how BKP would approach those particular pickups style while adding something extra, that genuine BKP sparkle into it :D?
I do not disagree at all, my point merely was that there are pickup styles that in my mind have a higher priority. Things like the firebirds, mini HBs and such are hard to come by in good quality and proper prices, meanwhile it is possible for the Filtrons, thus I would prefer to see BKP tackle those styles which are less available first. I was only commenting on the order of going about them.
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At the end of the day, there`ll be as many ideas as many people on this forum :D which is good, hopefully Tim will combine and blend them all into some next bad azz killer pickup set!
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Humbucker-sized Firebird pickup.
Firebird-sized Firebird pickups. And/or mini-humbuckers.
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I hadn't expected quite as many different options coming up but they're all good ideas. I'm not sure I agree that the Juggernaut is a distinctive pickup that stands out for me but maybe that's because I just don't much care for that sound. It's always going to be subjective I guess and part of my reason for wanting a Super Distortion alternative (other than the fact that we're asked about it regularly) is that that's pretty much what I want next. The A-Bomb is on my potential shopping list but I keep wondering if I'm just trying to force a Bare Knuckle pickup to fit into a sound it's not primarily designed to do. As a result, I confess I am also talking to The Creamery about building me a pickup but I'm pretty sure that if BKP had a Super Distortion alternative, that conversation would never have had to start.
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I think pretty much everything in the high-gain/high-output area has been covered; while the Super Distortion is an iconic character, between the Nailbomb, Warpig and others this is pretty much covered.
Admittedly, I never understood the popularity of the Super Distortion to begin with. I had one in a LP copy and thought it was good for rhythm, but nothing special, lacking the clarity and fluidity of other high output models, including DiMarzios.
For BKP 2014 I would like something such as a hot single coil that works great in the neck with high gain bridge humbuckers, and maybe with blades to suit the look.
I'd also like something that works great for Guns'n'Roses sounds; maybe the 10th anniversary model will become a regular model. I also know that there were some nice pickups made for the Steve Stevens Knaggs signature, so maybe we can see something new in the Vintage/Vintage Hot category. I think there's more options there to explore, like a darker PAF that works well with gain, but is more PAF than the Black Dog is.
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I think pretty much everything in the high-gain/high-output area has been covered; while the Super Distortion is an iconic character, between the Nailbomb, Warpig and others this is pretty much covered.
Admittedly, I never understood the popularity of the Super Distortion to begin with. I had one in a LP copy and thought it was good for rhythm, but nothing special, lacking the clarity and fluidity of other high output models, including DiMarzios.
For BKP 2014 I would like something such as a hot single coil that works great in the neck with high gain bridge humbuckers, and maybe with blades to suit the look.
I'm not sure the Super Distortion is 'pretty much covered' by any means. The Nailbomb has too much top end and is way too hairy and aggressive while the Warpig has a more accurate looking EQ but is way too hot to be a credible alternative to a Super Distortion. The Aftermath is also often mentioned in relation to the SD but it's got a much more modern voice. To me, the Super Distortion is smoother than the Nailbomb but not as much as the Holydiver. It also has a bit of hairiness to it but nothing like as much as the Nailbomb and not as tight either. It's also a bit drier than the Holydiver but not as much as the Aftermath and while it has a bottom end, it's nothing like as prominent as the Warpig. Overall, there really isn't a credible alternative and while I accept your criticisms of the Super Distortion in terms of clarity and fluidity, that's exactly why I want a BKP alternative because a Bare Knuckle pickup won't have those flaws in the same way that a Holydiver doesn't have any of the flaws inherent in the JB.
For single coils I'd really love to see single coil sized humbuckers and I agree that more choice for a hot neck single coil to go with a hot bridge humbucker would be nice.
Finally, I love to see more really unusual ideas. The other guitarist in my band just acquired a set of Tele-sized hot P90 pickups for his Fender Telecaster and they are incredible. I've never liked Telecasters but this thing now has balls beyond belief!
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I think pretty much everything in the high-gain/high-output area has been covered; while the Super Distortion is an iconic character, between the Nailbomb, Warpig and others this is pretty much covered.
Admittedly, I never understood the popularity of the Super Distortion to begin with. I had one in a LP copy and thought it was good for rhythm, but nothing special, lacking the clarity and fluidity of other high output models, including DiMarzios.
For BKP 2014 I would like something such as a hot single coil that works great in the neck with high gain bridge humbuckers, and maybe with blades to suit the look.
I'm not sure the Super Distortion is 'pretty much covered' by any means. The Nailbomb has too much top end and is way too hairy and aggressive while the Warpig has a more accurate looking EQ but is way too hot to be a credible alternative to a Super Distortion. The Aftermath is also often mentioned in relation to the SD but it's got a much more modern voice. To me, the Super Distortion is smoother than the Nailbomb but not as much as the Holydiver. It also has a bit of hairiness to it but nothing like as much as the Nailbomb and not as tight either. It's also a bit drier than the Holydiver but not as much as the Aftermath and while it has a bottom end, it's nothing like as prominent as the Warpig. Overall, there really isn't a credible alternative and while I accept your criticisms of the Super Distortion in terms of clarity and fluidity, that's exactly why I want a BKP alternative because a Bare Knuckle pickup won't have those flaws in the same way that a Holydiver doesn't have any of the flaws inherent in the JB.
For single coils I'd really love to see single coil sized humbuckers and I agree that more choice for a hot neck single coil to go with a hot bridge humbucker would be nice.
Finally, I love to see more really unusual ideas. The other guitarist in my band just acquired a set of Tele-sized hot P90 pickups for his Fender Telecaster and they are incredible. I've never liked Telecasters but this thing now has balls beyond belief!
If you want the sound of a Super Distortion then just get 1! :) I really like the 1 I have in my Firebird (1 of the few non BKPd guitars I have).
Also, if a BKP version got rid of the 'flaws' as you put it, it wouldn't be a Super Distortion anymore :lol:
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One might say the same about a JB but I'm still glad I have the Holydiver instead.
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One might say the same about a JB but I'm still glad I have the Holydiver instead.
That's true, but I've never been able to make a JB work for me whereas I love the Holydivers in my Jackson.
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Precisely, so you end up with a JB without the flaws and better in every area. Just what I want from a BKP Super Distortion.
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super distortion = twin coils, 43 awg wire, pretty hot, low mid heavy, fat compression
juggernaut = twin coils, 43 awg wire, pretty hot, low mid heavy, fat compression
that's not totally out of the ballpark at all, although an enamel hybrid pickup won't sound as hairy as poly + a thick ceramic magnet
what we need is more clips of the juggs with real amps and NOT playing "djent" or whatever similar modern metal style that has standardized processed tones, then we can have real conclusions
it definitely doesn't sound like an aftermath at all, although the specs derived from it
but I do miss more poly wire models among the low and medium output range (I think the black dog is the only poly bridge model below 44 awg)
there's something about the midrange that seems to come out only with poly... I remember Tim mentioning something about poly making them sound hotter or something... actually I think it's more like a loss of detail and more mid compression
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Yes, I agree there are some similarities but on every clip I've heard they sound completely different. Perhaps you're right and it's down to the clips but I'm still left sorely tempted by a Super Distortion and wouldn't touch a Juggernaut at all. The Juggernaut certainly sounds an awful lot tighter and more modern than the Super Distortion. Apparent similarities can be confusing. If you look at the Crawler and A-Bomb (alnico V, 43AWG and just 0.3 between them in DC resistance) they appear to be almost the same but are nowhere near the same in reality.
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Agree on the mini-hums, Firebirds and F-Trons. To me these are the only food groups sitting exactly between single coils and humbuckers.
No idea whether the Juggernaut covers SD ground but a viable BKP alternative to the SD is also something I would be interested in.
Cheers Stephan
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more custom cover ,
and SD P-rail type P90+Rail PU :shock:
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If you look at the Crawler and A-Bomb (alnico V, 43AWG and just 0.3 between them in DC resistance) they appear to be almost the same but are nowhere near the same in reality.
difference is actually the coil offset, and that makes a lot of difference on how they're voiced and also on the picking response
both will read anywhere between 15k and 16k, so 0.3k is irrelevant
a ceramic crawler should be quite interesting
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I've had to go to other makers to get what i needed sometimes.
Although i have quite a few guitars and can justify a particular BKP to get a particular sound, the fact is that most of the time only or two are gigged regularly and they are the most versatile ones.
I had to go to Seymour Duncan for a set of SC size a humbuckers (Cool Rails and a Hot Rails) for my old Patrick Eggle LA to replace the original Kent Armstrongs. They do reasonable SC and HB sounds.
I see the Creamery have a SC sized HB rail pickup now and will probably get one so i have the same tone options on my No.2 guitar. Would have gone for a BKP if it was a style that was offered.
I like the P-rails idea too as i am really getting into the P90 sound now and would like a clever option like Seymour Duncan has for that to get it into the live set with HB or Single Coil options.
My best pickup revelation was a Bill Lawrence L90 I put in a strat when i was a teen many years ago. Not had that WOW!!!! since... Although a set of BKP Rebel Yells came close more recently.
Also can BKP stock some DPDT on-on-on miniswitches so i can do the full serial, parallel, SC switching :)
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a ceramic crawler should be quite interesting
That would probably come closest to a SD.
Cheers Stephan
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Or what about an alnico 8 Crawler? Or a hybrid?
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What I think would be cool is to have a bucker that can do both vintage and modern.
The way I envision it is to have a basic PAF type bucker (at around 7kOhm) with a vitage type wire with a coil tap for both coils. Now on top of that add another 6 to 7 kOhm of modern type wire, also with 2 leads coming out.
Now by adding coil 1 vintage in series with coil 1 modern, and that again in series with coil 2 vitage in series with coil 2 modern, you get a fat type of bucker.
But by using only the vintage parts in series you'll get a PAF type sound.
And maybe it's usefull if you put both modern winds in series.
And I havent even started yet with all the possibilities for combining different winds.............and there are like a gazilion diffierent parallel options.............
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Well, I always still have a little hope that one day the BKP mini HBs will make a return. Letīs hope they will be profitatble sometime in the future.
[sarcasm font] If you can convince Tim that that is what Misha and Nolly are missing then it's more likely to happen [/sarcasm font]
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Well, I always still have a little hope that one day the BKP mini HBs will make a return. Letīs hope they will be profitatble sometime in the future.
[sarcasm font] If you can convince Tim that that is what Misha and Nolly are missing then it's more likely to happen [/sarcasm font]
Ooooh, handbags! :P
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[sarcasm font] If you can convince Tim that that is what Misha and Nolly are missing then it's more likely to happen [/sarcasm font]
There does seem to have been a strong focus on developing modern, tight and aggressive pickups recently. The Aftermath, Black Hawk and Juggernaut all operate towards the same end of the market while the Super Distortion still isn't catered for and in comparison to the contemporary section, the vintage and vintage hot sections look quite sparse.
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Actually, the aftermath sounds a lot like a HD x PK crossover, so it's not it's not a modern metal one trick pony
The blackhawk seems to have a hi fi caracter that might work for lots of styles outside metal and rock music
The juggernaut is still an incognite, as all clips are more of the same, but from specs alone, I'd expect it to do be at least as versatile as a miracle man or nailbomb, probably as much as a cold sweat
Although those models were associated with an specific style, it's no different than what bkp's been doing since the begining with the pickups names
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Tim is no fool and the modern tech metal is where the money is at the moment
BKP put all sorts of things up on their facebook page and the ones that get the biggest response are the Djent-y metal inspired guitars
All the Blackmachine, Daemoness, Skervesen, Vik etc type posts get a large response, proportionally larger than the vintage flavoured stuff
I only have to look at my own enquiries of late and there has been a huge number of people queuing up for the Blackmachine B6s that we have been doing this year to help out Doug, and whilst we have had some interest in the updated classic models we do - I have enough people on the waiting list for Blackmachines to keep me busy till 2016- or so it feels.
I also agree with the fact that the tight modern sounding pickups have more than just the one application and I would love to hear them demoed in different styles - maybe enlist a different player (much as I love Nolly) to show a different side to them.
Yes - we too are being kept busy with Djenty metal guitars - this is my workshop this evening
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1510379_608161729230915_1849311962_n.jpg)
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I also agree with the fact that the tight modern sounding pickups have more than just the one application and I would love to hear them demoed in different styles - maybe enlist a different player (much as I love Nolly) to show a different side to them.
It would be great to hear some other styles that's for sure. Although I don't think the Aftermath is really any kind of Super Distortion, I know it is suggested a lot for that kind of application so I'd love to hear some clips that show it running from Classic Rock to 80s Metal.
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Interesting observations from Jonathan.
I must admit I haven't got any kind of handle on the defining characteristics of the Aftermath, Black Hawk or Juggernaut models, or what the differences are between them. There's a mental block because I associate them with music which doesn't particularly appeal to me.