Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: metale on December 08, 2013, 08:27:33 AM
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Hi guys.
I'm contemplating getting another BKP, in this case for the bridge of my semi-hollow. This is the guitar:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/metale/guitarras/DSC_3198_zps2695dc80.jpg)
I want to take out the gibson dirty fingers pickup and put something on that both sounds and looks better. I'm after some Brian May inspired tones.
I know identical tones to the red special aren't possible because the pickup disposition is alot diferent and body wood is miles apart (laminated maple on this one, it's bright and snappy). Both guitars are semi-hollows though.
For reference, tones I like, and would like to get on the ball park of:
Who Wants to Live Forever: http://youtu.be/_Jtpf8N5IDE?t=2m (http://youtu.be/_Jtpf8N5IDE?t=2m) (solo 2:00 to 2:41)
The Show Must Go On: http://youtu.be/lSkx34M3XtY?t=2m27s (http://youtu.be/lSkx34M3XtY?t=2m27s) (solo 2:27 to 2:47)
Mother Love: http://youtu.be/WLDsd6lUiR8?t=1m27s (http://youtu.be/WLDsd6lUiR8?t=1m27s) (1:27 to 1:50 only; the rest of the guitar work in this song is a Parker Fly)
Princes of the Universe: http://youtu.be/VEJ8lpCQbyw (http://youtu.be/VEJ8lpCQbyw) (whole song, this is the most distorted I need it to go)
So I need a low to meddium output pickup that adds some body into the guitar, that is sweet and fluid-sounding, that cleans up well with the volume knob BUT I don't need pure cleans. My ideia of cleans for playing Queen is backing off the volume knob and picking lighter.
I've been considering this pickups, and have had these doubts:
Stormy Monday - too soft? not enough mids?
The Mule - not enough single coil sounding? (BM's pickups give him a delicate balance between humbucker richness and single coil attack and string separation)
Riff Raff - too bright for an already bright guitar?
VHII - description and tone chart look good... haven't thought about it until writing this post.
Black Dog - too much mids?
Abraxas - not sure it's worth considering in this case instead of a Mule with boost pedals.
Mississipi Queen - On my LP (neck) it has more punch than the bridge Black Dog. I'm afraid the punch/snap/attack is too much and the tone will become too 'hard'...
I will want a covered pickup unless there is a big tone disadvantage. If the pickup sounds good split or in parallel (I don't usually do those on the bridge position) I will add a push-pull to the volume pot.
Looking forward to your thoughts. Thanks!
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Will have to post one more, sorry - live tone without overdubs or layering:
http://youtu.be/ktZVZSFSILk (http://youtu.be/ktZVZSFSILk)
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I can get the tone on let me entertain you with my mules. I wouldn't dismiss them from your choices so easily. They are very versitile. Brian May is using fat single coil pickups so the MQ wouldn't be too far off either.
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I can get the tone on let me entertain you with my mules. I wouldn't dismiss them from your choices so easily. They are very versitile. Brian May is using fat single coil pickups so the MQ wouldn't be too far off either.
I haven't dismissed any of the pickups I mentioned on my post, all of them are on the table :)
The tricky part is that while Brian's guitar has (fat) single coils, he almost never used one of them alone. His main tones were always 2 of them combined in series as a humbucker.
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You'll certainly need lower output pickups and a treble booster for that sort of tone. Since anything will be an approximation anyway, I think a Riff Raff would be fun.
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I can get the tone on let me entertain you with my mules. I wouldn't dismiss them from your choices so easily. They are very versitile. Brian May is using fat single coil pickups so the MQ wouldn't be too far off either.
I support that.
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I spent some time with the guitar today. With the gibson pickup, the guitar is dry sounding and tracks extremely fast, especially for a hollow-body. The bass is tooooo tight. The pickup is perfect for pop-punk (go figure), which is not what I want from the guitar. It will find home on one of my squiers.
Acustically, the guitar sustains well but is indeed bright sounding. Because of this, and because I already have it on another guitar, I've rulled out the Riff Raff.
Also the SM because it's too soft (would love it on a LP), and the BD because I also have it on another guitar and it's a bit modern sounding for this application IMO.
For the time being, it's down to between the Mule, the VHII and the Mississippi Queen. And a treble booster.
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What is it that appeals to you about the VHII? I am thinking this is the one I would choose out of the three, if it were for me.
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Considering the bright tone of your guitar, you might want to look at a Abraxas-b-/Mule-n combo. The Abraxas will tame the highs and provide some extra mids without loosing chime. The Mule-neck..., well to me this is one of the best neck-PAF's ever. Open, full, balanced, complex, with enough snap.
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What is it that appeals to you about the VHII? I am thinking this is the one I would choose out of the three, if it were for me.
The description of it on the product page caught my attention. The assymetrical winding seems to give it a bit of the single coils' string separation and clarity, and the fact that it splits well is a plus. Also, the sound samples I heard of it sounded very good to me. I worry a bit that it could be too hot... but it can't be worse that the 16K ceramic humbucker that is in there now :)
Considering the bright tone of your guitar, you might want to look at a Abraxas-b-/Mule-n combo. The Abraxas will tame the highs and provide some extra mids without loosing chime. The Mule-neck..., well to me this is one of the best neck-PAF's ever. Open, full, balanced, complex, with enough snap.
No neck pickup, this is a single pickup guitar. The Abraxas seems to be quite hot at 14k, I would prefer something with lower output. I'm still considering the bridge Mule though.
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The VHII also has a reputation for being one of the less finicky BKPs with regard to what guitar you put it in, which means that it is more likely to sound like the audio clip.
I'm not sure about the output on the VHII. What I would think is that you are looking for something open (rather than compressed) sounding, and I think it might fit the bill there. The two things that people tend to dislike in hot pickups are (1) a compressed sound (BKPs in general don't suffer from this much at all) and (2) the pickup overdriving the amp on clean. With the latter issue I don't think the VHII is hot enough to really cause that problem, and you could overcome it by rolling the volume knob down to 8 or 9 if you did get it. A '50s wired harness would help. On choosing between the Mule and the VHII I would probably focus on the sound you want, rather than the two considerations mentioned just now. I don't think the VHII is hot enough for these to really be factors.
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Agent Orange, would you also throw the Mississippi Queen in the mix, or do you also think I would be ok with one of these two + treble booster (which boosts high mids, not treble)?
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I would seriously consider a pair of Mississippi Queens for your application, but it is very different from the humbuckers and might be like comparing apples and oranges. Both can taste great, but different tastes.
I really like clips for the VHII, especially the parts where you can hear the neck pickup. I don't like many neck pickups for distorted sounds (as opposed to cleans), but I really like the VHII, Emerald, and Nailbomb necks in the clips.
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I would seriously consider a pair of Mississippi Queens for your application (...)
Can't fit a pair on the guitar, this is a single pickup guitar ;)
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Oh, okay. Well the VHI neck pickup is really nice anyway, LOL.
One of my guitars only has one pickup, a Stockholm P-90. That would be way too hot for your needs but do keep in mind the other P-90s like the MQ, but I tend to think a VHII will give you enough power and still clean up okay for what you want.
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Of the bkp humbuckers i own i'd say mules sound the most similar to bm's tone, however, i actually think they are a bit too clear so if i were going for that tone i would probably use vhii, abraxas or maybe even mq's.
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Sorry, overlooked the dummy at the neck. Abraxas then.
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Regarding the MQs, I would consider it more if I could fit them as a set. That way, if I felt that the bridge was too punchy or had too much attack, I could mix the neck in to tame it a bit. Ur.. Or use the tone knob :?
Keeping this in mind, I think a Mule or VHII would be a safer bet (and more versatile with coil splitting and parallel option) than a single bridge MQ. It's still on the table.
I keep thinking that the Abraxas would be too hot, especially since I will run a treble booster, no?
Ah, decisions, decisions :x (good ones to have to make). Also, in you guys' opinion:
- Raw Nickel cover or open reverse zebra (if humbucker)?
- Coil split or parallel (if humbucker) on a push-pull?
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Personally I'd go for a covered pickup.
On the push-pull, I really don't know. Normally I'd say that it's easy enough to change the wires around and try each configuration out once you have the switch in place, but working through F-holes it really isn't! I'd probably go for a split if using a VHII
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Normally I'd say that it's easy enough to change the wires around and try each configuration out once you have the switch in place, but working through F-holes it really isn't!
Oh, the beauty of an ES-333 comparing to an ES-335 :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/metale/guitarras/DSC_3199_zpse5186b5b.jpg)
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Keeping this in mind, I think a Mule or VHII would be a safer bet (and more versatile with coil splitting and parallel option) than a single bridge MQ. It's still on the table.
I keep thinking that the Abraxas would be too hot, especially since I will run a treble booster, no?
Ah, decisions, decisions :x (good ones to have to make). Also, in you guys' opinion:
- Raw Nickel cover or open reverse zebra (if humbucker)?
- Coil split or parallel (if humbucker) on a push-pull?
A Mule and a treblebooster could work fine, but you have a bright guitar and the Mule-bridge has quite some topendsnap. I'm keeping some doubts. I think the Abraxas is not that hot (the VHII is quite hot, nearly same output as my Crawler), but I can see you want an opensounding vintage(hot) pickup. Maybe you can adjust the balance with a 380k pot.
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I see. The Abraxas has quite some resistance reading (14k IIRC) but a weaker magnet than the VHII. How does it clean up?
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I've got one of the BM Guitars Red Specials, and it's a peculiar beast. From my experience, what I've read about how he used it does fit - definitely bridge + middle series, in phase, is his main "rock" sound. Bridge on its own gets used a fair bit as well. Neck + Middle, series, out of phase is his signature lead sound. I think a big part, though, is the AC30s running full tilt with a treble boost :lol:
Anyway, I was thinking MQs, MQs, MQs... all the way until I got to "Can't fit a pair"
I have MQs, and the BM pickups sound most like them in a humbucker size - MQs are a bit more powerful and thicker than the BMs I have. (What the BMs really sound like is a cross between a tele bridge and a strat pickup - but neither of those will work for your guitar).
If you're talking one humbucker-sized pickup only, I think you might need to consider a humbucker with switching for splitting, phase, etc... (as I don't do this kind of thing, I don't know which BKPs take best to this)
Otherwise, for me, it would be a toss-up between an MQ or a Mule - I'd probably choose a Mule myself.
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AndyR, that's priceless info, thank you. Good to hear how the tri-sonics compare to the BKPs.
I'm at the moment torn between the MQ and the Abraxas. MQ was also recomended to me by Tim, but keep in mind that he recomended me A PAIR of them.
The stock Gibson humbucker is now out of the guitar and for sale, so things will have to happen sometime soon since there is a hole on the guitar! One more than usually, I mean :)
I'm also considering splitting the tones between two guitars. Get a humbucker sized pickup for the ES-333 and get a set of baseIplated slowhands for one on my strats, wired on series and with BM's switches. Getting expensive though.
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The Abraxas cleans up very well, it's a hotrodded Mule, but nothing ott.
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Thanks.
Got a couple more questions:
1- Is the Abraxas assymetricaly winded? If coil-spliting, which coil would sound better, the one with the screws (nearer the bridge) or the slug coil?
2- Keeping in mind the look of the tailpiece on the guitar, which is a bit aged (see pic on first post), would raw nickel match it well? I think aged nickel could be a bit too much.
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Most BKP's are asymetrical. Abraxas too. I think the slugcoil sounds better in terms of tonal balance.
Raw nickel would look badass.
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So... It's ordered. 8)
The cover will not be everybody's cup of tea, but it does not have to ;)
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Sorry I'm late to the party , but I would go MQ or if it needed to be a HB , then a VH2
Andy is bang on about the Trisonics and treble booster and vox AC30 NORMAL CHANNEL TURNED TO FULL (not top boost!)
Been a bit of a Queen fanatic my whole life and BM is the reason I got into playing and later making guitars
Those who know me will be able to spot me in this crowd - clue - mine is the only non-bandmember face showing :)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/599588_10151081406889002_1380483850_n.jpg)
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Jon, great to hear from another Queen fan, thank you for your feedback.
I've been a BM fanatic for 20 years (I'm 29yo) and also picked up the guitar because of them. Unfortunatly, as soon as I started listening to music and found Queen, Freddie had already left us.
All this years I gravitated towards metal, but keep coming back to Queen, and nothing gives me shivers like alot of their music.
As for the pickup, I went with none of those. I went with an Abraxas, since I ended up feeling that it compremented the very bright nature of the guitar. It will be split via push-pull pot. It's also said to be very smooth, which makes me want to try some layered orchestrations with it.
If it becomes worst case scenario, it won't do many Queen tones but still be a great pickup on a good guitar. I will then have to modify one of my strats to try to achieve those tones (baseplated slowhands are calling for me) with the BM switching options.
Or... try to explain my wife that we need a Red Special more than a new sofa... :) I bet she would be happy for me to sell my honda cbr for buying a guitar.
Cheers! And great 20th Anniversary guitars you have there.
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This is my favourite song featuring Brian May:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oHBO88ra3Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oHBO88ra3Y)
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Just a small update, this guitar is still without a pickup.
There may have been some problem with my order (not with Bare Knuckle, this was ordered through a dealer/guitar shop). I have talked to Tim via e-mail, and am trying to figure this out.
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Just great. Just got confirmation from BKP that the dealer, to whom I transferred the money on December 19th, never placed the order with BKP.
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Just great. Just got confirmation from BKP that the dealer, to whom I transferred the money on December 19th, never placed the order with BKP.
Ah yes, dealers. I tried a few german ones so far with mixed results. Nothing as bad as you, but not all satisfactory and even the same area as BKP service. Then I asked Feline if I could just order from him. He said yes and I never looked back. Soon again...
Hope things clear up easily from here on out, this situation really sucks.
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I don't think it will be easy. Tim told me twice yesterday that there had been no such order placed from such dealer, and that my pickups are not being made.
I e-mailed the dealer about this in the evening, and he told me not to worry because the pickups were in production.
My best guess is that the dealer tried to wait until he had more bkp orders so he would save on shipment from the UK. When confronted yesterday, he MAY have put my order through, hence he stating explicitaly that it is in production. Will have to probably wait a couple more weeks to find out.
I would have dealt directly with BKP, but I don't have a credit card (most people in Portugal don't have one, they have a bad name because the banks use them agressively to get people into debt). Will do so in the future though.
Edit: Sure enough, Tim e-mailed me saying that he received my order from the dealer this morning...
Thumbs up to Tim, who has been very helpful on all this.
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You don't have debit cards in Portugal?
They have a Visa number attached to them but basically they just withdraw funds from your bank account, the same as using an ATM
You should look into it. I have had one here in Australia since 2001 and I didn't have a credit card for a long time, yet I was able to do all of my internet transactions (including Paypal) using one of those cards.
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My debit card is a Maestro, which to buy online seems to need a special Security Code that my bank doesn't seem to support/provide.
Traditionally, debit card don't allow online shopping in Portugal.
I will try it anyway, with paypall, to see if I can get it to work. We also have 'virtual' credit cards that we create on our account, but each time the CC number will be different and some sellers may think it's a scam.
Failing the debit card thing, I'll ask my bank for a low limit, no-interest credit card.
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My debit card is a Maestro, which to buy online seems to need a special Security Code that my bank doesn't seem to support/provide.
Traditionally, debit card don't allow online shopping in Portugal.
I will try it anyway, with paypall, to see if I can get it to work. We also have 'virtual' credit cards that we create on our account, but each time the CC number will be different and some sellers may think it's a scam.
Failing the debit card thing, I'll ask my bank for a low limit, no-interest credit card.
You mean the three digit number normally found on the back of cards? Well if that is missing that makes it pretty useless for online transactions.
I think in Australia all of the debit cards are Visa. Mastercards seem to be credit cards only
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My debit card has those 3 digits, but I tried it this morning on paypal and indeed it is not accepted, seems to be blocked bank-side.
I think this is a way for getting people into credit cards (if they want to shop online regulary).
Either way I should be able to deal directly with BKP on my next orders. So my plans as of now are:
- Receive the Abraxas, install on the ES-333 with push-pull split.
- Receive The Mule, replace the LP's Mississippi Queen with it.
- Find a guitar for the Mississippi Queen, I hate unused pickups.
- Get a tele set for the MIM.
LOOONG term:
- Get an Irish Tour neck and Slowhand middle for my black gilmoured strat.
- Get some kind of strat combo for the red strat that is getting the Brian May inspired wiring.
This should keep me busy for a while.
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The Mississippi Queen bridge might work in one of those recent Gibson Melody Maker SGs if you can find one cheap somewhere. They were out at bargain prices for a while. SGs of all varieties generally work well with P-90s, although I'm not sure how the maple body might affect things.
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The Mississippi Queen that is on the LP is a neck position. I've toyed with the SG ideia, but in my case it would most probably be an Epi G400.
I've thought about putting it on the neck of my new (used) tele, but would have to route it ALOT (the MQ is long legged, to make maters worse).
But I really don't need more guitars :/
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Yeah I have that problem with the Warpig set I have. It is open coil, long legs, so it will probably only fit another Gibson or Epiphone. I will try it out in my SG Standard the next time I change strings but it won't look right there. If it sounds good there I will look at putting it into a more bare-bones SG at some point in the future - maybe one of those cheap SGJs or an Epi, biut possibly an SG Special.
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My ideal plan is, if I have the money at some point, order a matching bridge and get either a G400 1966 (the one with the full pickguard) or a Fender Blacktop tele for them.
Failing that, I may grab a cheap squier bullet strat (new = €100) and butcher it to accept the MQ on the bridge (despite being a neck MQ) with a Delonge type pickguard and a single 250k volume knob.
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- Find a guitar for the Mississippi Queen, I hate unused pickups.
Wow. I may be doing this later this afternoon. My self-control has really been lacking lately.
In case that I don't open a NGD and go missing, it's probably because my wife killed me over one more guitar related buy...
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Warning and apology: this post has little to do directly with the pickups.
I would like to be here saying to you that I had received the Abraxas and The Mule, and how great they are. Basically:
1- I ordered via a guitar shop the Abraxas on December 19th and paid on the same day.
2- On December 30th, I ordered to the shop (but wasn't asked for payment) the Mule, and was told by the shop BKP were taking their time with the Abraxas.
3- On January 6th I decided to check with the shop AND Tim how the order was.
4- Situation on January 7th:
I don't think it will be easy. Tim told me twice yesterday that there had been no such order placed from such dealer, and that my pickups are not being made.
I e-mailed the dealer about this in the evening, and he told me not to worry because the pickups were in production.
My best guess is that the dealer tried to wait until he had more bkp orders so he would save on shipment from the UK. When confronted yesterday, he MAY have put my order through, hence he stating explicitaly that it is in production. Will have to probably wait a couple more weeks to find out.
Edit: Sure enough, Tim e-mailed me saying that he received my order from the dealer this morning...
Thumbs up to Tim, who has been very helpful on all this.
5- On January 17th the shop asks me to pay the Mule, because my order has arrived to them and is ready to ship to me. I got ahead of myself, wanting to get my pickups as soon as possible, and transfered the money to the shop before remembering to check with Tim.
6- On January 18th, Tim replied me that the etched cover will still take a further 2 to 3 weeks. :o
I'm feeling pretty dumb right now. I don't have my pickups nor €276. This is not a usual situation here in Portugal (scams and such), and this shop has pretty good reputation.
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Well, I wouldn't use that shop again and I would be warning all my friends not to deal with them.
That's what happens here in Adelaide when a shop screws over someone. Musos talk
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At this point I'm just really puzzled.
I posted on a Portuguese forum sharing the situation, asking for opinion, but NOT identifying the store.
The store owner posted, identifying himself, saying that he indeed has my bkps in hand and ready to ship to me, and critizising (spl?) me for talking to Tim.
:? What the..??
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So, when do they arrive?
Guy sounds like a classic bullshiteeter, but maybe he'll prove me wrong.
I'd order direct next time, even if it means sending Tim a money order through the post. This guy sounds like a proper bellend.
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We'll find out sometime this next week. If they do arrive, I will be very surprised, since while I don't expect Tim to know each and every order, I was confirmed several times that the order hadn't come in (first) and that it's still in production (now).
I'll post pics as soon as anything arrives.
As for dealing directly, I already have my brand new credit card, so using it or through paypal it won't be a problem in the future.