Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Lucas on December 10, 2013, 12:58:46 AM
-
Hi,
as we can notice across the whole forum how much 'magical' combo Holydiver bridge/Emerald neck is praised and glorified, I would like to ask how versatile it is.
Especially in PRS SE custom type of guitars (mahogany body, maple neck, rosewood fingerboard), Slarti? :D Are you there? :D
That combo certainly can cover 80`s rock/metal sound and slightly further territories as we all know, but how does that combo perform with blues and kind of Gary Moore creamy solos as well as clean tones (HD bridge in particular)?
And another question is:
How does HD bridge compare to Crawler bridge (apart from HD being not as dark and smooth)? Do they share any characteristics tone-wise?
Can you play those creamy smooth fluid solos on HD bridge as much as on Crawler (b)?
I`m also looking to compare some aspects of both bridge pickups like clean tones and lead parts in general.
Many thanks for info!
-
A bridge humbucker is probably the last thing I would use for a clean tone so I have to stay silent on this. But the HD bridge will work well for fluid lead playing. It will also work for blues but the Crawler may do this a bit better.
I had them both in my PRS Custom. For what I wanted out of this guitar I preferred the Crawler for its increased vintage flavor and slightly less honky sound. It made the PRS sound much more Les Paul like. On the other hand, it is not as tight as the HD, and the HD is not even the tightest in the BKP contemporary range.
Cheers Stephan
-
Well, as I have that exact combination in a PRS SE Custom 24 and I have been singing its praises for quite some time, I really should step up to the plate on this one.
Versatility
I think this is a relative question to be honest because the obvious qualification is 'Compared to what?'. As contemporary pickups go it is certainly a versatile option and I think that's because it's not massively extreme in any particular direction. It has aggression in it but that is tempered by the inherent smoothness of the pickup. It has lots of mids but they're pretty evenly spread so you cut through the mix without sounding hairy or angry. Notes are thick but they're not really fat and while it has a bottom end, you'd never call it a 'bassy' pickup. It's also tight and articulate but it's a hell of a long way from being tight in the 'djent' sense. The tonal characteristics of the pickup do place it firmly in the 80s Metal category and that is where it is most comfortable without a shadow of a doubt but as long as you accept it will always retain these core characteristics, you can take it in other directions. Add an overdrive and compressor as I often do and it thickens up further and can be used for things like Metallica and Children of Bodom but wind down the gain and compression and it will do a very credible Classic Rock sound, albeit with that 80s twist. It wouldn't be my first choice for Blues. Having said all of that, although it's versatile within the confines of most contemporary pickups, there are ultimately more versatile options out there, though I can't think of too many.
In many respects the same can be said of the Emerald. Even though it's in the 'Vintage Hot' section, it is a modern pickup. The alnico IV magnet gives it its sweetness and an incredibly harmonically rich tone but the modern wire gives it all the cut of a modern pickup like the Cold Sweat. I think that's why I like it so much because I feel like I'm getting the best of both worlds and it really is unique. With most pickups in the range, especially neck pickups, there is always an alternative that is similar but the Emerald neck stands completely alone. There is simply nothing else like it in the range. This does make it quite versatile as the modern cut it has means it's great for shreddy styles but the expressiveness you get with the AIV magnet means it's a pickup with a lot of soul. It will do all the styles of the Holydiver with ease but also take you closer to Blues styles. It's a lovely pickup for more modern Blues Rock.
Gary Moore
This is a REALLY tricky one. Gary Moore is my favourite guitarist without a doubt but in his lifetime he covered an awfully wide range of styles. The Holydiver will certainly do some of his material but I'd say it would be most at home around the time of his 'Corridors of Power' album. The Emerald has a bigger operating window for Gary Moore as it will cover that era too but also do a number of his Blues Rock numbers. I can only speak for myself but I'd use the Holydiver/Emerald combo for some Gary Moore songs while for others I'd rather use the Crawler/Holydiver combo I have in my other PRS. For others who want a more authentically Blues tone, the Abraxas or Mule neck would be a better option but I just find the more vintage pickups to be too rounded in the bass for my tastes.
Cleans
Are there bridge pickups with better cleans than the Holydiver? Yes, absolutely, but I don't think you'll find many of them in the contemporary section. The Crawler is the only one that leaps to mind. Move out of the contemporary section and you may find better cleans but then you're starting to compare apples and pears. The main role of a Holydiver bridge is never going to be cleans but with that minor caveat I'd say the cleans are good. The cleans on the Emerald are very good. It's thick and very harmonically rich. I find the Emerald very satisfying to play clean. In some respects my Holydiver neck has better cleans but they're nothing like as complex as those on the Emerald. It's just a REALLY good pickup.
Holydiver compared to the Crawler
There is certainly some common ground here and I guess that's why I like them both. Both pickups are smooth, both have plenty mids, both are warm and organic and both are thick sounding. In some respects they are certainly related, it's just that the Holydiver is the younger and more raunchy brother. It's also important to point out where they differ because they certainly do. Where the Holydiver can be described as 'thick', the Crawler is 'fat' and on top of the warm, organic nature that is common to both, the Crawler is very rich and sweet in its tone. The Holydiver has mids pretty much across the board while the Crawler is more focused on the low mids, which gives it the darker and fatter nature that seems to be one of its defining features. While I could describe the Holydiver as 'tight', it's not a word I would use to describe the Crawler but that's not to say it tends to be mushy because it certainly doesn't, it's just that the word 'articulate' seems more appropriate. The Crawler also isn't an obviously 'aggressive' pickup but it does have a very distinctive 'growl' to it that can be really satisfying. When I bought the Crawler I was wanting to make my PRS move distinctly towards the tonal characteristics of a Les Paul and generally speaking I'd say it does just that. Cleans are certainly better on the Crawler and the Crawler also has another distinct characteristic that, for me at least, is very unusual. I'm not a great fan of single coils and I'm even less of a fan of humbuckers employing split coils but I really like the splits on the Crawler. There's some very useable single coil tones in there that I don't generally find on split humbuckers. I like the split tones on the Crawler better than most single coils I've tried.
Summary
What would work best for you really depends on what you're after. If your focus is raunchier Classic Rock, 80s Metal and more modern Rock/Metal styles, the Holydiver does very well indeed. If you need more versatility in your PRS I'd be tempted more with the Crawler simply because it has a much bigger operating window as it will cover everything from Blues to early 80s Metal and give you both humbucker and single coil tones in the process. I think it may struggle to go much beyond 80s Metal because it will start to get a little soft in the bass but there's a limit to what any single pickup will do. I use the Crawler mostly for our first set while in the second set it's far more Rock/Metal so I use the Holydiver almost exclusively but if I had to choose just one guitar to cover our entire set, I'd choose the Crawler. As for the neck pickups, the Emerald is my favourite so far because it offers so much but I would repeat that I don't really do tones that are particularly vintage. I like the sound of vintage but I miss the cut of more modern pickups. So far the Holydiver neck is as vintage as I've been happy with.
I hope this covers everything but if there's anything else you want clarifying, please just ask.
-
Wow. That was informative. Thank you very, very much for that. Oh and screw you for further fueling my gas for a HD EM combo. ;)
-
One aims to please :D
Anyway, our tastes are so similar it's about time you had a Holydiver/Emerald combo. You know you want to and should do :twisted:
-
One aims to please :D
Anyway, our tastes are so similar it's about time you had a Holydiver/Emerald combo. You know you want to and should do :twisted:
It only is a questions of when I have the money, trust me. Since your first review of them they have been extremly high up on my list. Right now I am looking to sell one of my axes that I am not connecting with anymore sometime in the future (the one that has Crawlers and a Slowhand middle, sounds fantastic but does not play right to me) and depending on how much I can get for it I will get HD EM combo and if I am lucky perhaps also a PRS Korina Singlecut which will then either temporarily give home to my AMs or go straight to Bluenotes (depending on how much I can get), which are also extremly high on my list.
Btw, I also added your little excurse here to the review thread, felt like it gives enough interresting insight and it would just be a shame to let such nice writing disappear in the depths of the forum.
-
:D That's very kind of you, thank you. I hope you're not getting rid of the Crawler as that would be a terrible sin.
-
:D That's very kind of you, thank you. I hope you're not getting rid of the Crawler as that would be a terrible sin.
Dunno if I will sell the guitar with them, can not count it out though. Should the buyer want it with them I would let them go for now. Thing is if I were to not sell them they would just sit around until I get a strat for them. So I am not totally opposed to the idea, cause I know that I will get them again when I find a nice HH strat, so they would only be temporarily gone. Bigger on my agenda however are a mellow bluesy rock LP type (the PRS Korina with the Bluenotes is what I have in mind), a SSS strat (Sultans or Apache), a Tele (Boss), a Baritone for my AMs and a custom LP for my 10th anniversary PUs.
Then I would go back to the Crawler and get a LP for the MQ and pair it with either a MQ or WP bridge...maybe even Pig90.
Just pains me to have unused BKPs lying around...already have a currently homeless MQ neck and AM set and right now I would rather expand my range of tones as that reflects what I play. The Crawler is great, but not the highest on my need list, right now I could do without it (and I am cause I really donīt like playing that guitar anymore, just hear it). If I do not happen to stumble across a great HH strat however I would love to keep it.
-
Wow, Slarti, that was absolutly immense work and great informative and superb review. Thanks a million! Now I should have to send you some check with few digits at least for that :D
Basically Emerald neck is total must-have, just being torn between HD bridge and Crawler bridge.
What Im looking for from bridge pickup in that particular situation is:
-good full bodied and defined cleans (not thin and lifeless like on many bridge pickups)
-not too aggressive
-creamy buttery tone with a little bit of twist and a little bit of bite but NOT too mellow and NOT too polite as well (something in between?)
-huge creamy lead sound but again NOT extremely polite and mellow and NOT aggressive either
-when it comes to blues it didn`t mean soft, mellow sleepy blues from Mississippi delta from 60`s 8)
it has to be smooth, creamy, fat but with a little bit of bite and twist as well
-and I`m not looking that pickup to cover modern metal sound at all. It will have to shine going from blues with something extra added to it, between classic rock, rock in general to 80`s metal AT THE VERY MOST.
So I think I have answered my question already... Holydiver? Yes?
To be honest, what grabs my attention so much when it comes to Crawler bridge is that 'growl' which was mentioned here on this forum few times while reviewing that pickups. That`s why I little bit torn between them two.
Many many thanks Slarti for great help! You rock! :D
-
Ok, I do not know the HD yet, but to me that sounds like the Crawler would be better. Not that the HD canīt do that, but you really seem to have it for the blues and rock area, where the Crawler is strongest. It can also go up to 80s metal, but the HD is more the other way around, mostly 80s metal but can go down nicely. I think you would really enjoy that roary agression the Crawler has, as it is not exactly agressive in the sense it is most used here, but certainly not too polite. Creamy and fat it does, but it has enough in the high end to not be dull. Cleans also should be better, especially when you split, there the Crawler is the single best PU I have ever heard.
Between normal operation and split the Crawler should give you just what you want. Warm, organic, full, creamy but with that unique roar giving it character and attitude without being agressive or harsh in the usual ways.
-
Now Im lost :lol:
Wouldn`t the Crawler bridge be too smooth and 'polite' for some ballsy rock/80`s metal riffing? I guess at that point HD wins.
cheers.
-
Wow, Slarti, that was absolutly immense work and great informative and superb review. Thanks a million! Now I should have to send you some check with few digits at least for that :D
I'm happy to help and it really is a labour of love for me.
Basically Emerald neck is total must-have, just being torn between HD bridge and Crawler bridge.
What Im looking for from bridge pickup in that particular situation is:
-good full bodied and defined cleans (not thin and lifeless like on many bridge pickups)
True of both pickups but probably more so with the Crawler.
-not too aggressive
Again, true of both of them
-creamy buttery tone with a little bit of twist and a little bit of bite but NOT too mellow and NOT too polite as well (something in between?)
Again, probably true of both but it sounds a bit more like the Crawler
-huge creamy lead sound but again NOT extremely polite and mellow and NOT aggressive either
Probably a bit more like the Crawler, though it's true of them both.
-when it comes to blues it didn`t mean soft, mellow sleepy blues from Mississippi delta from 60`s 8)
it has to be smooth, creamy, fat but with a little bit of bite and twist as well
That's definitely the Crawler!
-and I`m not looking that pickup to cover modern metal sound at all. It will have to shine going from blues with something extra added to it, between classic rock, rock in general to 80`s metal AT THE VERY MOST.
Again, that's the Crawler more than the Holydiver
So I think I have answered my question already... Holydiver? Yes?
Based on what I've just written above I'd say that it will do what you want, yes, but the Crawler may well do it better
To be honest, what grabs my attention so much when it comes to Crawler bridge is that 'growl' which was mentioned here on this forum few times while reviewing that pickups. That`s why I little bit torn between them two.
I appreciate the problem as they're both very good indeed. I think that's what's made buying my next set so problematic because I can't quite imagine anything as good as the two sets I have. I always used to be put off the Crawler because the Procol Harum connection made me think it would be a bit too tame for me but I was dead wrong.
Many many thanks Slarti for great help! You rock! :D
Always a pleasure
I appreciate your concern about the Crawler being too smooth and polite but honestly, it's nothing like as tame as the Procol Harum connection suggests. I use mine with the amp's gain set to just under half way and an overdrive with the gain set to about 3/4 AND a compressor set to about half way. There's plenty balls there. When you get to 80s Metal you're right, the Holydiver wins but in Blues, Blues Rock and Classic Rock, the Crawler is better. I'd have opted for the Crawler because earlier you said that it would only go as far as 80s Metal at most, suggesting that most of the time will be spent below that.
-
Well to me it is not too polite, that roar really brings it out. It is this viking barbarian shout. Quite a thing in its own right. Just that most times people talk about agression they are talking about that upper mid thing. This thing has balls and character enough, my thought even would be that the HD might be more polite in a way, but Iīll have to have Slarti chime on that. I just think that the Crawler is not exactly polite. Dark, warm and orcanic does not mean polite.^^
What a relief that Slarti agrees with my assumption as the one who actually can compare the two.
Meanwhile a quick look around got these:
http://youtu.be/WZtPULUgWso (http://youtu.be/WZtPULUgWso)
Lotta talk, only camera mic, but gives a basic idea.
http://youtu.be/iKUkBqHIB4I (http://youtu.be/iKUkBqHIB4I)
Another tone, more that 80s rock thingy.
http://youtu.be/nN84qcU1DHM (http://youtu.be/nN84qcU1DHM)
Lotta lead play on the bridge here.
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30260.msg390537#msg390537 (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30260.msg390537#msg390537)
Look through the drive clip.
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30026.msg388010#msg388010 (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30026.msg388010#msg388010)
Finally also here somethings.
-
Oh and Slarti, I still think it would probably be worth it for you to take a quick stroll down P90 alley, specifically MQ or a little less the Blue note. Same idea, a warm organic roar, similar applications in terms of style, bit more open and a very discinct flavour and definition. Lovely attack, full frequency response, etc. To me that is your best shot of continuing down the same path and still seeing new things and expanding your tonal range.
-
I am sorely tempted by P90 pups for sure. The other guitarist in my band has a couple of P90 loaded guitars and I love them. He even has a MQ neck but I'm not sure I want to do that with the Vintage. At the moment it looks more likely I'll get a custom pickup made that is my take on a Super Distortion so a P90 guitar may have to wait a while unfortunately :(
-
Woah! That baby can really scream! More bad azz than I thought! To be honest I was put off a little by that Procol Harum thing indeed thinking that it`s nearly as polite as some vintage bluesy pickups (Mule set? sorry 8)).
And I completely forgot to mention earlier on Rock/Classic Metal POWER BALLADS. I love ballsy power ballads from
Europe -Carrie, some Bon Jovi, Motley Crue - Home Sweet Home through Guns `n Roses to Metallica - Unforgiven, Nothing Else Matters ect.
Just love mixing cleans with distorted parts with creamy as well as screaming long bluesy solos.
That aspect will be quite high on the priority list when it comes to battle between HD and Crawler.
-
I guess still Crawler anyway!
And by the way, what option would you suggest for Crawler/Emerald combo in mahogany body, maple neck, rosewood board guitar? Open coil or covered? Was more tempted to lean towards covered option, but now when Crawler is much darker and smoother, covers wouldn`t make it too dark with mahogany body?
-
You see! I swear that whole 'Procol Harum' thing puts people off the Crawler in the same way that the Santana connection can sometimes put people off the Abraxas.
Go open-poled as I find they have noticeably more cut to them. I have zebras on all of mine and they look great.
The Crawler/Emerald combo works well and I really liked it even though I don't use that combo now as I prefer the Holydiver neck with the Crawler. I discuss the two in more detail in this thread:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31078.0
I'm sure you'll like the Crawler bridge; it makes a PRS sound really beefy and Les Paul-like.
-
Correct me if I`m wrong, HD bridge would be similar to Nailbomb (being certainly less aggressive), is that right?
I mean tone and voicing wise,` cause EQ chart might be misleading sometimes.
-
The Holydiver and Nailbomb bridge pickups are very different. The Holydiver is smooth and thick while the Nailbomb is thick but much more hairy in its tone with upper mids giving it a very angry tone. The mids on the Holydiver are more evenly spread while the Nailbomb is more focused. The Holydiver is reasonably tight while the Nailbomb is VERY tight and in a similar way, the Holydiver is reasonably aggressive whereas the Nailbomb is extremely aggressive. The Holydiver works in pretty much anything except an SG but I found the Nailbomb to be far more picky. As a measure of just how different they are, the Holydiver is one of my favourite ever pickups and I sent the Nailbomb back. The Holydiver is classic 80s Metal while the Nailbomb is more 90s Thrash, though oddly enough the Nailbomb is also more open than the Holydiver so will also do very aggressive sounding Classic Rock. Very different pickups indeed.
-
Well, as I have that exact combination in a PRS SE Custom 24 and I have been singing its praises for quite some time, I really should step up to the plate on this one.
Versatility
I think this is a relative question to be honest because the obvious qualification is 'Compared to what?'. As contemporary pickups go it is certainly a versatile option and I think that's because it's not massively extreme in any particular direction. It has aggression in it but that is tempered by the inherent smoothness of the pickup. It has lots of mids but they're pretty evenly spread so you cut through the mix without sounding hairy or angry. Notes are thick but they're not really fat and while it has a bottom end, you'd never call it a 'bassy' pickup. It's also tight and articulate but it's a hell of a long way from being tight in the 'djent' sense. The tonal characteristics of the pickup do place it firmly in the 80s Metal category and that is where it is most comfortable without a shadow of a doubt but as long as you accept it will always retain these core characteristics, you can take it in other directions. Add an overdrive and compressor as I often do and it thickens up further and can be used for things like Metallica and Children of Bodom but wind down the gain and compression and it will do a very credible Classic Rock sound, albeit with that 80s twist. It wouldn't be my first choice for Blues. Having said all of that, although it's versatile within the confines of most contemporary pickups, there are ultimately more versatile options out there, though I can't think of too many.
In many respects the same can be said of the Emerald. Even though it's in the 'Vintage Hot' section, it is a modern pickup. The alnico IV magnet gives it its sweetness and an incredibly harmonically rich tone but the modern wire gives it all the cut of a modern pickup like the Cold Sweat. I think that's why I like it so much because I feel like I'm getting the best of both worlds and it really is unique. With most pickups in the range, especially neck pickups, there is always an alternative that is similar but the Emerald neck stands completely alone. There is simply nothing else like it in the range. This does make it quite versatile as the modern cut it has means it's great for shreddy styles but the expressiveness you get with the AIV magnet means it's a pickup with a lot of soul. It will do all the styles of the Holydiver with ease but also take you closer to Blues styles. It's a lovely pickup for more modern Blues Rock.
Gary Moore
This is a REALLY tricky one. Gary Moore is my favourite guitarist without a doubt but in his lifetime he covered an awfully wide range of styles. The Holydiver will certainly do some of his material but I'd say it would be most at home around the time of his 'Corridors of Power' album. The Emerald has a bigger operating window for Gary Moore as it will cover that era too but also do a number of his Blues Rock numbers. I can only speak for myself but I'd use the Holydiver/Emerald combo for some Gary Moore songs while for others I'd rather use the Crawler/Holydiver combo I have in my other PRS. For others who want a more authentically Blues tone, the Abraxas or Mule neck would be a better option but I just find the more vintage pickups to be too rounded in the bass for my tastes.
Cleans
Are there bridge pickups with better cleans than the Holydiver? Yes, absolutely, but I don't think you'll find many of them in the contemporary section. The Crawler is the only one that leaps to mind. Move out of the contemporary section and you may find better cleans but then you're starting to compare apples and pears. The main role of a Holydiver bridge is never going to be cleans but with that minor caveat I'd say the cleans are good. The cleans on the Emerald are very good. It's thick and very harmonically rich. I find the Emerald very satisfying to play clean. In some respects my Holydiver neck has better cleans but they're nothing like as complex as those on the Emerald. It's just a REALLY good pickup.
Holydiver compared to the Crawler
There is certainly some common ground here and I guess that's why I like them both. Both pickups are smooth, both have plenty mids, both are warm and organic and both are thick sounding. In some respects they are certainly related, it's just that the Holydiver is the younger and more raunchy brother. It's also important to point out where they differ because they certainly do. Where the Holydiver can be described as 'thick', the Crawler is 'fat' and on top of the warm, organic nature that is common to both, the Crawler is very rich and sweet in its tone. The Holydiver has mids pretty much across the board while the Crawler is more focused on the low mids, which gives it the darker and fatter nature that seems to be one of its defining features. While I could describe the Holydiver as 'tight', it's not a word I would use to describe the Crawler but that's not to say it tends to be mushy because it certainly doesn't, it's just that the word 'articulate' seems more appropriate. The Crawler also isn't an obviously 'aggressive' pickup but it does have a very distinctive 'growl' to it that can be really satisfying. When I bought the Crawler I was wanting to make my PRS move distinctly towards the tonal characteristics of a Les Paul and generally speaking I'd say it does just that. Cleans are certainly better on the Crawler and the Crawler also has another distinct characteristic that, for me at least, is very unusual. I'm not a great fan of single coils and I'm even less of a fan of humbuckers employing split coils but I really like the splits on the Crawler. There's some very useable single coil tones in there that I don't generally find on split humbuckers. I like the split tones on the Crawler better than most single coils I've tried.
Summary
What would work best for you really depends on what you're after. If your focus is raunchier Classic Rock, 80s Metal and more modern Rock/Metal styles, the Holydiver does very well indeed. If you need more versatility in your PRS I'd be tempted more with the Crawler simply because it has a much bigger operating window as it will cover everything from Blues to early 80s Metal and give you both humbucker and single coil tones in the process. I think it may struggle to go much beyond 80s Metal because it will start to get a little soft in the bass but there's a limit to what any single pickup will do. I use the Crawler mostly for our first set while in the second set it's far more Rock/Metal so I use the Holydiver almost exclusively but if I had to choose just one guitar to cover our entire set, I'd choose the Crawler. As for the neck pickups, the Emerald is my favourite so far because it offers so much but I would repeat that I don't really do tones that are particularly vintage. I like the sound of vintage but I miss the cut of more modern pickups. So far the Holydiver neck is as vintage as I've been happy with.
I hope this covers everything but if there's anything else you want clarifying, please just ask.
That's just too cool for words. Thank you very much!
Cheers Stephan
-
Thanks Stephan, that means a lot as your knowledge of Bare Knuckle pickups is so extensive :D
-
Slarti, you`ve mentioned that Crawler splits extremely well producing wonderful 'single coil-ish' sound which stands even better even among some real single coils.
But that applies to the bridge version, or you meant it in general?
Originally when I bought my Dean Caddy I had push/pulls for both stock pickups. While neck one wasn`t too bad, the bridge one was terribly weak, thin and good for absolutely nothing. I didn`t find that tone useful at all.
I know that BKP is in another league, no doubt about that, but how would you describe Crawler bridge in single coil mode?
More Telecaster bridge tone or beefier Strat tone? If it`s more Tele with that chicken pickin` weak sound I wouldn`t be bother with another push/pull then :D
ps. no offense to Tele bridge sound and chicken pickin` playing :lol:
Thanks a million!
-
When I originally bought the Crawler it was as a calibrated set and the one push/pull pot split both pickups. Both the neck and bridge versions split well, producing good Strat style tones. They're certainly not the Tele style you describe otherwise I wouldn't have bothered either! When you split the Crawler they do brighten up considerably from the humbucker but it's still not what I'd call a dramatically bright single coil tone. As you know, I didn't really get on with the Crawler neck and sent it back for the Holydiver neck which I much prefer. If I like the split tones of a Crawler I'd imagine most people would. It's the only single coil sounds I'll use.
-
I got my Crawler wired for split too, actually with a 3 way switch for HB, split and PRS split with a 2k resistor. On top of that I have mine turned around so that the slug coil is the outer coil when split making it even brighter and weaker. I do that cause I much prefer it when combined with the middle (itīs a HSH) as it is more tele like, thus giving me more variety.
With that situation most PUs would have an issue I believe as split sounds always struggle a bit to be like a real SC, which is the reason I like the PRS wiring as it helps along. On my RY guitar (HSH too, also turned) I would not be so confident in running the split HB alone (even with the PRS wiring), but I admittadly never tried that.
However the Crawler split is actually that good. It retains power, character, does not sound thin, etc. Just a lovely, lovely and absolutly usable sound. Also handles gain suprisingly well. I implore you to go for it. I also still advice on the PRS wiring, even though the Crawler goes better without than other PUs. Still makes it even better though.
It just is the best split sounds I have ever heard out of a PU, both bridge and neck.
-
And that's exactly what makes the split tones on the Crawler so incredible - they are actually usable. Loads of people split their humbuckers for alleged versatility but in practise, I bet there's not many who actually use those split tones much because they're really not that great. The Crawler stands out because it has that unique distinction in my experience of genuinely good split tones.
-
And that's exactly what makes the split tones on the Crawler so incredible - they are actually usable. Loads of people split their humbuckers for alleged versatility but in practise, I bet there's not many who actually use those split tones much because they're really not that great. The Crawler stands out because it has that unique distinction in my experience of genuinely good split tones.
Exactly. I know I should shut up about it, but the PRS split helps with that, but even with it a lot of HBs will not produce a properly usable split, ever (of course this also depends on style and rest of the gear). That is also the reason why my RY (b) IT (m) Mule (n) guitar does not use splits alone, but only autosplits in combination with the middle. I really, really like splits, but ususally they just are too weak on their own, as a HB coil just is not a SC.
Come to think of it there are only two PUs where I felt comfortable using a split without combining it with something else (my prefered solution most of the time as that is very usable ususally, at least in my eyes). One is the AM, although that was only a half thing. It was nice to pull that pot out, taking gain and fattness out for some slower strumming parts then punching it back in for metal riffing. Half usable I would say.
With the Crawler however I would feel comfortable playing hours just on the splits I sh1t you not. Still does not quite reach BKP SCs, but kicks all stock SC asses I have played.
-
Kiichi, does the PRS wiring have something to do with parallel while in middle position?
Currently I only have one Mojotone CTS Push/Push pot on the neck pup. With that pot engaged my Dean is wired in parallel when in middle position-both pups and when on neck both coils in parallel. Something like that.
To be honest I`m really confused and not quite familiar with wiring ect. Friend of mine was doing that for me.
If Im wrong, have to ask him what exactly it was. :D
That wiring doesnt give you full split even on one pickup? Dont laugh... wires, soldering things together and electronic diagrams are not my thing at all :lol:
-
I would not dare to laugh. I myself am still somewhat new and not everyone wants to be a tech guy, I just happen to be interrested not only in the results but also the tech and fiddling behind the scenes. Far too much actually, keeping me from playing more than I would like to. You know, one of those guys who tweaks the sound but canīt play properly ;)
What the PRS wiring I am talking about is is actually stunningly simple (or so I say....). When you split a HB you send one of the coils signals to ground, turning it off, like a fully turned down volume pot. What the PRS wiring changes is putting a resistor in series with the ground path. So between the to be shut off coil and the ground there now is a barrier. This effectivly works as a not quite turned down volume pot. So the coil it not completly turned off, but mostly. The effect his has is for one of course a slightly higher output, slightly lower noise (as the humbucking effect still occurs to a small extend) and (sides the output) the most important thing added bottom end. As you know when you roll a normal volume off you do not only loose volume, but also a bit extra treble, thus often the use of a treble bleed or 50s wiring, both of which make sure that the high end stays sparkly when you roll down for a cleaner sound. In this case this roll off of the high end is actually good since, as you noted, split coils can be thin, weak and trebly and this is remedied by the nearly shut off coil adding mostly bottom end.
So to recap: Instead of turning one coil you put in what is essentially a fixed volume pot to weaken it. What it then adds to the mix is mostly extra output and bottom end, bringing the sound closer to a true SC.
The PRS values used for this are usually 2k for the bridge and 1k for the neck. It is extremly easy to experiement with exact values though, just need two allicator clips.
There is also a variation on the idea using caps instead of resistors to lower the resonance peak, but I have not tried that myself (yet) and will not get into it right now.
If you have any more questions please do ask!
-
While you guys are at it, how would one of these combinations sound on an Ibanez RG550 or JEM (locking trem, basswood body, maple neck w/ rosewood board), especially when compared to DiMarzio Paf Pros,
Matched HD set
Emerald neck / HD brigde
Emerald neck / Crawler brigde
Emerald neck / Abraxas brigde
Matched Abraxas set
given that my requirements are pretty much the same as Lucas'? I'm not looking for high output, but more articulation. Paf Pro brigde is plenty enough for me, although I prefer SD Jazz in the neck position.
-
As regards output, all of the suggested combinations will have a bridge pickup that is as hot or hotter than the PAF Pro, and neck pickups that are lower in output than the PAF Pro. They all should have more articulation than the PAF Pro, even though the PAF Pro is a decent pickup IMHO. For a Floyd equipped guitar I would go Crawler bridge and Emerald neck (even though I still have not one of the latter).
As regards the Crawler bridge split: I have it set up with the 5-way rotary selector in the PRS which only gives me combinations of the split Crawler with the split VHII neck but not the split Crawler by itself. But it works very well in all positions of the 5-way and provides excellent results in any switch position.
Cheers Stephan
-
Kiichi, many thanks for making the whole thing clear and sorry for replaying so late, but I was away for last few days and had limited access to the internet.
It sounds simple and according to what you say it certainly does an amazing job. But does it only apply to guitars with 2 separaded and dedicated to each pickup TONE pots?
How does that situation looks like when you have 2 pups and 1 volume and 1 tone pot?
Basically I`ll be putting Crawler/Emerald combo into custom Warmoth telecaster, but the reason I brought the PRS 24 custom up is that it will have similar specs as PRS and what`s more I was looking for Slarti to explain the whole thing as he has that combo in one of his PRS.
And that Tele (once it will be built :)) will have Crawler bridge/Emerald neck and 1 volume and 1 tone control. And the pickup which will be split as we already discussed is Crawler bridge. Does it change anything?
Thanks again for help,
Best regards,
-
Kiichi, many thanks for making the whole thing clear and sorry for replaying so late, but I was away for last few days and had limited access to the internet.
It sounds simple and according to what you say it certainly does an amazing job. But does it only apply to guitars with 2 separaded and dedicated to each pickup TONE pots?
How does that situation looks like when you have 2 pups and 1 volume and 1 tone pot?
Basically I`ll be putting Crawler/Emerald combo into custom Warmoth telecaster, but the reason I brought the PRS 24 custom up is that it will have similar specs as PRS and what`s more I was looking for Slarti to explain the whole thing as he has that combo in one of his PRS.
And that Tele (once it will be built :)) will have Crawler bridge/Emerald neck and 1 volume and 1 tone control. And the pickup which will be split as we already discussed is Crawler bridge. Does it change anything?
Thanks again for help,
Best regards,
Pleasure! Spreading the good word. ;)
Having written it out like that may tempt me to copy and paste at future occasions.
Now again, I am not an expert myself, but when I think about it, it seems rather easy. So we have 2 HBs, 1 tone, 1 vol and a 3 way (I guess). In that case the easiest and most versatile thing to do would probably be to make either the tone or the volume a push pull. Let us say you put it on the tone. In that case you could just follow this diagram https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/downloads/schematics/general/humbuckers/2_hum_1vol_push_pull_coilsplit_tone_3_way_switch.pdf (https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/downloads/schematics/general/humbuckers/2_hum_1vol_push_pull_coilsplit_tone_3_way_switch.pdf) with the difference that between the ends of that green and white wire pair and the poti you put the resistors.
If you were to also care to split the Emerald, cause why not (in my mind) you would then use 1k for the neck and 2k for the bridge (or at least start there) and have with the poti pulled splits in all positions with the middle being the Petrucci style combo of two split HBs. Should make for a total of 6 distinct and usable positions for what you play.
If you really only wanne split the Crawler just keep the neck wires taped together and just do the 2k for the bridge to the poti.
-
Pleasure! Spreading the good word. ;)
Having written it out like that may tempt me to copy and paste at future occasions.
Make sure to do it, it solves all mysteries and confusions! Great job indeed.
So basically if I want to split both pups I have to apply that diagram to both of them following the same principle? Resistors on both paths?
And what kind of resistors would you recommend, I mean quality-wise. I suppose they are not that expensive so I would want to go with the best quality ones.
cheers.
-
Pleasure! Spreading the good word. ;)
Having written it out like that may tempt me to copy and paste at future occasions.
Make sure to do it, it solves all mysteries and confusions! Great job indeed.
So basically if I want to split both pups I have to apply that diagram to both of them following the same principle? Resistors on both paths?
And what kind of resistors would you recommend, I mean quality-wise. I suppose they are not that expensive so I would want to go with the best quality ones.
cheers.
Yes, resistors on both paths. That is because you generally want different values for neck and bridge. The bridge can do with more bottom end, thus the higher value, which results in the coil stayin on more.
To elaborate slightly further on the concept of this (sorry if I am overdoing it here):
You see the wire pair coming from each of the PUs in that diagram and how they lead to the side of that push pull pot. Now this shows how the push pull function operates http://www.smitspickups.com/coilta18.gif (http://www.smitspickups.com/coilta18.gif)
When you now follow the path of the signal in you head you can see that when the pot is in the signal has nowhere to go, so it is just like they are taped off at the side you like they would be for normal operation. When the pot is pulled they are send to ground (notice that where that bridge is there is a ground connection).
The goal is now to place a resistor somewhere between the wire pairs and the ground to keep some of the signal from disappearing there. You could just put one between that bridge and the ground, as signal from both PUs goes through there, but then the same value would be applied to both, which for the reasons stated above you do not want. One resistor for each PU between wire and pot and you are set.
Resistors are really, really cheap and there are hardly any quality things to look for. When we look at potis (variable resistors) we can look for things like taper, build quality, sturdiness, how smooth they rotate, size, tolerance, etc. With resistors most of those are not of importance. Here we mostly concern our selfs with how much current they can take and tolerance. In this case the current is super low, so now worries there. Since it is a static thing there really is not much to look out for except tolerance. This is expressed in % and tells you how far off the stated value this resistor can be. The closer, as always, the better, but not even that matters much in this application.
Resistors are pretty clean parts and have such low tolerance that it is hard to go wrong. Of all the usual building parts, these are the least mojo of all.
A german online shop Juansolo once recommended to me sells ones with 0,6w rating, 1% tolerance, metalfilm style for 6 cents a piece. I use those for pedal building and all things and they just work.
Really, just get some and if you have the choice go for low tolerance.
-
Cheers!
Last question.
Once I would be splitting both pups do I have to have 2 push/pull pots (in that case both VOLUME and TONE)? One would be for neck and the other one for bridge splitting?
Or one push/pull would be enough and splitting particular pickup would depend on position of the 3 way toggle?
And by the way, has anyone ever split Emerald neck? As far as I know it`s quite bright pickup (neck not as much as bridge but anyway...). How does it sound in SC mode?
Thanks a million!
-
Cheers!
Last question.
Once I would be splitting both pups do I have to have 2 push/pull pots (in that case both VOLUME and TONE)? One would be for neck and the other one for bridge splitting?
Or one push/pull would be enough and splitting particular pickup would depend on position of the 3 way toggle?
And by the way, has anyone ever split Emerald neck? As far as I know it`s quite bright pickup (neck not as much as bridge but anyway...). How does it sound in SC mode?
Thanks a million!
The selector switch works as normal, just that the selected PUs are not fully on anymore, only a little more than half of them.
You can do with only one push pull. Then you would have the following positions in push: neck / neck & bridge / bridge
and in pull: neck split / neck and bridge splits / bridge split
If you were to go for one push pull for each PU you would have 2 more positions: neck normal + bridge split / neck split + bridge normal
You choice. Personally I would say the one pot solutions is enough for most players and easier to handle.
If I recall the Emerald neck is actually not that bright, it is refered to as a more natural fit for the HD bridge. It certainly is darker and fuller than the HD neck, but has a certain cut from the wire used. Therefore you get a nice musically smooth and warm sound with cut.
I would certainly think it is worth trying the split (if you donīt like it you can always just disconnect it and just use the bridge split). I suspect it could be nice for clean and low gain sounds to have that single coil neck flavour, plus the middle position also gives a nice sound with both PUs split.
Plus since the neck always has more bass it is also easier to get a neck split to work nicely than a bridge, as that position is brighter from the get go.
-
Thanks Kiichi for truly great help! Due to the fact that`s custom Warmoth, it`ll take them ages to build it, then take ages to ship to the UK and then it will take me ages to assemble the whole thing but I bet it`ll be worth it.
thanks again.