Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: Shadowvault on December 27, 2013, 06:19:26 PM
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First of all hello and merry Christmas :D
I am thinking of making this:have a 4way switch and have this options: 1.(switch points the neck pos) neck 2. neck and bridge in parallel 3.neck and bridge in series 4.(switch points the bridge pos) bridge.Also have 2 push/pull pots (volume/tone).The first push/pull gives humbucking option,parallel or series and the second can split the coils.Now when the split coil is activated i want the other push/pull to act only like a pot (because if you have split coils you cant choose a humbucker option).Any idea how can i make this? :D
Thanks in advance
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For the push/pull, when I have two I prefere to do so (the most possibilities you can get, if not interested in phase inversion):
Switch 1 Switch 2 Effect
Inactive Inactive Series
Inactive Active Split coils (one of the two hum cancelling combination)
Active Inactive Split coils (the other hum cancellin combination)
Active Active Parallel
(You can find detailed explainations here: https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31136.0)
Moreover, I think that you cannot control two humbuckers for Series/Parallel with a single push/pull pots. (Actually, I may be wrong but I am pretty sure of that: going to parallel need to redefine two connections per humbucker... so a one switch is shall not be enough.)
About the 4-way switch, I will think about it, and provide an answer asap.
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You will find attached what you want for the 4-way switch. From top to bottom, you will have:
- Neck only
- Neck + Bridge in Series
- Neck + Bridge in Parallel
- Bridge only
Once I know exactly what you want (what for push/pull? 1 vol. pot. + 1 tone pot.?..), I can provide you the full personnalized wiring diagram if you want. Merry Christmas. ;)
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cool,thanks man!I want the following options: parallel/series hum and split coil,i was thinking 2 push pull:1 for coil split and one for hum connection options but i dont thing if thats possible
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As I explained, I think you cannot have one push/pull that makes parallel for both humbuckers. But you can still be able to go parallel or coil splitting with only two push/pull.
You will just need to activate both push/pull to go parallel. Activating only one of both push/pull will make single coil, and (bonus) the coil will be selected according to which push/pull is activated. (Thus, you can choose if you want to use or not the bridge coil of the bridge humbucker, that provides a tight sound with mainly trebbles, and so have its pros and cons.)
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I got another interesting idea out of your video,but i dont know if this will work :P
I will have a 4way switch that does neck,neck//bridge,neck+bridge,bridge
Now i will give one of 8 possible sets every time in the circuit:
1)hums in series
2)hums in parallel
3)hums in series phase inversion
4)hums in parallel phase inversion
5)split coil pair 1
6)split coil pair 2
7)inner coils phase inversion
8)outter coils phase inversion
Now i dont know how many push/pulls does that need and that is a general idea.I think this gives all the different combination you can do.Now i dont know which of those gonna be really useful but anyway
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If I understand well, it is what I did on my guitar (except for rhe 4-way toggle switch). It gives any possible hum cancelling combination, assuming that both humbuckers are controlled the same way (ie assuming you do not want to do use for example coil splitting for the neck and parallel for the bridge at the same time).
I think this is the best you can do with 3 push/pull pots, and doing more is not very useful.
However, it cannot be done if you have only 2 push/pull pots.
Then, the two best possibilities are:
1) Enabling coil splitting and parallel. (Then, in addition, you can select the coil when coil splitting.)
2) Enabling coil splitting and phase inversion. (Then, the coils you select when splitting coils are fixed. However, the pair of coils can be different when inverting phase, to keep cancelling hum.)
You cannot do parallel for both humbuckers and phase inversion with 2 push/pull pots.
The choice between enabling parallel (1) or phase inversion (2) will depend on what you want/play:
1) Parallel gives a smooth sound with quite low output. It can be useful for smooth chords.
2) Phase inversion gives a tight sound with mainly trebbles. It sounds pretty cheap with a purely clean tone. With some effects (chorus, reverb, phaser...) for a more atmospheric music, it gives you an "ultra-bright" sound. With distortion or overdrive, the boost in trebbles goes well for shredding or similar stuff.
My opinion: if you do some lead, I would go for (2).
Else, probably go for (2) anyway (except maybe if you only do chords). You can have a quite similar effect than with parallel by lowering your guitar volume and using the tone pot. I actually never use parallel.
If going for (2), you also need to choose which coils are selected with coil splitting. It mostly affects the bridge tone: its coil nearest from the bridge is tighter, with more trebbles... Some say it sounds cheap. I would recommand to use the other coil (the inner one), with the coil of the neck that would cancel hum. But the choice is yours.
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Can i do it with 2 pp and a toggle?
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With 2 pp and a toggle:
- If you have a 4-way 2-pole toggle (I assume you have this, since I did not found 4-way toggles with more poles), you cannot do everything I do with 3 pp. I tried to see if I could put phase inversion on the toggle instead of series humbuckers, but it seems to be impossible.
- If you have a 4-way toggle with more than 3 poles, you can replace series by phase inversion. (I use a 3-way toggle that makes the classical: neck alone, bridge alone, or neck+bridge in parallel.)
If you want, you can replace the toggle with a 5-way 4-pole switch. Then, what we can do is controling coils (coil splitting and parallel coils) with the 2 pp, and making phase inversion through the toggle. Then the 5-way toggle would do:
- Neck alone
- Neck + Bridge in parallel
- Neck + Bridge in series
- Neck + Bridge phase inverted and in parallel (or series... I do not know what is best actually).
- Bridge alone
PS: The number of "poles" is the nomber of switches that are actually controled by the toggle. In classical guitar wirings, toggles have 2 poles. The push/pull pots have 2 poles too.
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I'll buy everything from BKP page to avoid extra shipping cost so you can see what switches and p/p i can purchase
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Ok. So there is not the toggle switch I was talking about.
Moreover, BKP sells a "CRL 4-way Tele", but I did not found anything about it. (I am actually not an expert in toggle switches.) However, I found only one type of 4-way toggle switches. So I assume this is this type: Oak Grigsby 4-Way Lever Switch. (There are 2 poles/switches. Each one have 5 connectors: a given connector is connected to one of the 4 others according to the toggle position.)
Anyway, I tried something I did not think about: inverting the wiring of one humbucker when used alone (what has thus no effect on the tone).
What you can do is:
1) Still controling coils with pp pots (series, coil splitting and parallel):
- No push/pull activated => standard wiring: coils in series
- One push/pull activated => Single coil
- The other one activated => The other single coil
- Both push/pull activated => Coils in parallel
2) Having, according to the 4-way toggle position:
- Neck only
- Neck + Bridge in parallel
- Neck + Bridge in phase inversion and in series
- Bridge only
However, when inverting phase, I cannot change the coils combinations to keep cancelling hum.
I am not sure what phase inverted pickups in series does, but it might be interesting: trebbles shall still be boosted, and using series keep or even increases the output power (usually lowered when inverting phase while keeping pickups in parallel).
I think that what I propose here can be really nice... But is having "phase inversion + series" better than having just "PUs in series"? I do not know. Personally, I would try both.
Now, it also depends on your needs. If you play many brutal rythms, and want to increases your guitar output for more distortion, series might be better. If you want an ultra-bright tone, you might prefere phase inversion.
PS: I checked, using the 5-way toggle available from BKP will not allow you to get "PUs in parallel" + "PUs in series" + "phase inverted PUs".
PPS: I think we saw every interesting possibilities (using material from BKP website):
- Push/Pull pots: coils in series / single coils (2 combinations available) / coils in parellel
Toggle: Neck alone / PUs in parallel / PUs in series / Bridge alone - Push/Pull pots: coils in series / single coils (1 conbination available) / phase inversion between PUs
Toggle: Neck alone / PUs in parallel / PUs in series / Bridge alone - Push/Pull pots: coils in series / single coils (2 combinations available) / coils in parellel
Toggle: Neck alone / PUs in parallel / PUs phase inverted and in series / Bridge alone
PPPS: If later you want more, you can still buy a super switch to get (1) and (3)... But I think you will have far enough with one of those three wirings.
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So with 2 pp and a 4way i can do hum in series,parallel,the upper coil from each pickup and the lower coil from each pickup.So 95% i will do it this way.I saw that there is not a toggle switch in the site :/ There is an on on only.What can be achived by that?
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Yes. And with the 4-way toggle, in addition to the standard "bridge only / bridge and neck in parallel / neck only", you can have either "bridge and neck in series" (high output) or "bridge and neck phase inverted and in series" (mainly trebbles). Just choose one so I will start with the right wiring diagram. ;)
If you do not have a 4-way toggle switch yet, BKP sells one: https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=24_55&products_id=155 (https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=24_55&products_id=155)
However, they say it is a "CRL 4-way"... After a lot of digging, it seems that there is no such things. So it might be a Oak Grigsby 4-way switch.
Still, mailing BKP to ask confirmation of the model or wiring characteristics may avoid any mistake. It shall acts so:
(http://static---guitarelectronics.app-hosted.com/media/img/guitarelectronics/-/diagrams/switch_terminals/4way_usa_lever_switch_terminal_connections)
Also, if you do not have the push/pull pots, maybe you might prefere to buy push/push one. Those are easier to use (especially since, with my wiring, going from standard to parallel coils requires to switch 2 pots position). BKP sells good ones (I use them): https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=24_54&products_id=150 (https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=24_54&products_id=150)
You might check your cavity is deep enough (1.108").
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I think i will go with the stadard neck only/bridge and neck in parallel/bridge and neck in series/bridge only
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Well, I sent a mail to BKP to ask confirmation anyway.
I will do the wiring diagram asap. (Today?)
By the way, if you are unsure of what you want, you can maybe do like me: instead of directly solder everything to the switches, I put some contactors. Thus, I can change my wiring without unsolder/resolder everything. ;)
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I think i will do it this way.I dont wanna experiment so much the first time with the wiring so i'll keep it like that.You dont have to hurry up.I will order the parts today so...
Why do you suggest push/push?What do you mean its more easy?I am asking because ive never seen one
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With push/push, you just push each time you want to switch position. I find it is easier and faster than grabbing and pulling when you want to activate. Moreover, it is easy to push to buttons at the same time... It is harder when you need to pull them.
Some people prefere push/pull because when pushing or pulling, they are sure to get the position they want (while with push/push, since you switch position, if you are mistaking the initial condition, you will go to the wrong position). However, you usually actually know yet in which position you are, and you can still have a look.
It is a matter of choice, but push/push are faster, you do not care about slippery knobs, and you will never tear the knob away while just trying to split coils.
By the way, I got Tim's answer: the 4-way toggle from BKP are the "good ones". So you can take one without hesitation, to put HB in series or invert phase. (Plus: at this point, two additional wires for the 4-way toggle will not change a lot, even if it is your first wiring. ^^)
By the time you get your order at home, I will have done the different wiring diagram. So no need to choose now what you will do with your material. ;)
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Really cool!I will to with push/push then.Do you know if i have to buy extra wires or i will have everything included with the materials?If so were can i get some?Thanks a lot :D
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There is no extra wire, or any soldering material.
You can use standard wires (thin wires for electronics... not big thick wires for home electricity of course). So you shall find it with the soldering material (or if you ask to someone else to do it, he shall have some wires).