Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Wayne_S on January 25, 2014, 05:37:38 PM
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Another newbie here to all things BKP. Been reading the forums for couple months, sound samples, youtube and have had email correspondence with Tim. Id rather not take up more of his time cause he has pups to make for all of us :D
Here's the short skinny of my current dilemma. Ive been a JB user for decades and been happy till recently only in the case that I put a Duncan Custom Shop 78' in a Dean I have and found that the lower output has some benefits that I really like. I understand the 78' and the JB are not even close in comparison but I like the control and definition better in the 78' but its too springy in the low end. I prefer the harmonic content of the JB that the 78' lacks. I'm definitely a Alnico 5 magnet person cause I believe the 2 had more spring to it.
With that being said I have purchased a RS Guitar Works Vintage/Modern rewire kit for LP. Tim said that kit would work just fine with his pickups. It has the Jensen paper oil 22 cap for the bridge and a modern type for the neck. Guitar was previously shielded so I'm good there as well as a new Faber bridge and tail piece system.
Now the pups !! I'm a classic rock / metal guy so I go from Zeppelin, Kiss, Forigner, ACDC to Judas Priest, Dokken, VH, Ozzy/Randy stuff. Tim recommended the Black Dog. We discussed the Holy Diver as well as the Rebel Yell. I'm sure Tim is spot on with his assessment but I'm still torn as to what to decide. Id say at this point I'm split between the Black Dog and the RY's.
Any comments or suggestions or even what the hell is your problem dude spout offs are welcome LOL !!
Thanks again gang :D
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Hi and welcome mate!
I think with those three discussed PUs you are on the right track for sure. All of them should be very able to do what you want with different flavours and areas of focus.
Now I do not have personal experience with the Blackdog and I do trust what Tim says as that guy knows his stuff so feel very free to disregard what I am saying. However I would have gone with the Rebel Yell personally. Saying you like A5 and high harmonic content that just seems right to me. If the guitar is not very bright in itself it just delivers an incredibly versatile rock voice with a great screaming upper mid spike. For what you wanne play that can really bring it home and then some, at least I feel so.
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The Rebel Yell is closest to the old JB, I have one of the very old double cream ones from the 70's. The Holydiver has a bit more push and is more 80's sounding to my ears. I also have Black Dogs in a Les Paul and love them for the old Zeppelin sound.
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Thanks for the time and feedback people !! I will say my LP rings real good acoustically. All my buddies love to get their hands on it when they are over or tell me to bring it with when I go. As far as bright Im not sure but the Faber bridge is super tight and solid as well as sporting titanium saddles. Still tho its a big ol LP :D
I heard the RY's can be bright but I was thinking if I got them Id completely cover them with no exposed poles type of cover. I hear that would shave off some of the high end spikiness if Im understanding things correctly. I like cut and bite but not shrill or excessive fuzzy. The JB rolling the volume back really goes down hill for me. It always works better full on and plugged into the low input on my Splawn QR.
Might have to get another LP and have one with BD and the other RY's but for now I need to settle on one calibrated full set.
Many thanks again !!
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Thanks for the time and feedback people !! I will say my LP rings real good acoustically. All my buddies love to get their hands on it when they are over or tell me to bring it with when I go. As far as bright Im not sure but the Faber bridge is super tight and solid as well as sporting titanium saddles. Still tho its a big ol LP :D
I heard the RY's can be bright but I was thinking if I got them Id completely cover them with no exposed poles type of cover. I hear that would shave off some of the high end spikiness if Im understanding things correctly. I like cut and bite but not shrill or excessive fuzzy. The JB rolling the volume back really goes down hill for me. It always works better full on and plugged into the low input on my Splawn QR.
Might have to get another LP and have one with BD and the other RY's but for now I need to settle on one calibrated full set.
Many thanks again !!
Rebel Yells won't be shrill.
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Yeah, thing with the RY is that it is bright, but not trebly. What makes for that bright, lively rocking sound are the upper mids. Those really make things scream, but are not the part of the EQ that can make things shrill or fuzzy usually, and certainly not here. I think those are usually in the treble end. There the RY has some, providing further cut, but it is mostly harmonic overtones which really just fit in nicely musical and are an extension of the mids in a sense.
I sure never felt like it was fuzzy. For me it is so beautiful cause everything in that pickup comes together so wonderfully giving you true old school character and modern quality. As I like to say: A classic sound, faithfully brought to the present.
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i use rebel yells in my Gibson LP Classic. they are really nice.
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I wouldn't go for the no holes covers. The difference would be minute, if any, and you might find that adjusting the poles is actually helpful.
I would probably go for a Rebel Yell set, or a Rebel Yell bridge combined with an Emerald neck. The Emerald set sounds great in Les Pauls, but might not do all that you want (in terms of the '80s stuff).
RY for Randy Rhoads for sure. I think you will need something with the edge of an RY for AC/DC too.
Riff Raff -> Emerald -> Rebel Yell (I'm talking bridge pickups here) seems to be a bit of progression from vintage to hot but well suited to the same applications, so I suspect that you might be able to get some of the character of the more vintage ones with the RY, at least in terms of EQ characteristics
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Many Thanks gang !! I just ordered the Rebel Yell set :D
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Many Thanks gang !! I just ordered the Rebel Yell set :D
Let us know how it goes for you!
Also I would not be me if I would not mention that the RY is very sensitive to height changes, perhaps most so out of all BKPs. So if you put them in and like them immediatly there is a big chance they can get better still. Within half a screw turn the bass response changed character noticably for me. Within one screwturn I can adjust it from something I like for pop punk and something I like for more 80s metal. So I actually these days change that often, like an EQ on the amp or so.
So do try around a bit, it is soooo worth it.
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I'm eager to get them and get it up and rolling. Ive seen many people here referring to subtle pup height changes that the BKP's respond well too. I was just going thru my RS Guitarworks wiring kit and realized I had ordered the 280K volume for the bridge which was the way I had the ol JB running before. This kit was ordered before I had any thoughts about doing new pups, I was just going to rewire with the JB.
It should affect the Rebel Yell the same way, yes ?? Should I get a 500k ?? I always preferred the 250/280 on the JB cause it tamed out the highs some, tad smoother Id say.
Any thoughts here, got a couple days before the Rebels arrive :D
Appreciate the support, I hope to be able to return the favor down the line !!
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Well that is....I donŽt know xD
Hard to say how you would like it with 500k. It is usually what we recommend as it kinda sets things free.
What I would say is try it with 500k. It might just be that youŽll end up going back to 280k, but in the case you used them to get rid of frequencies the RY does not have you are possibly limiting the potential if you kept them. If you actually like that rounded sound for other reasons you can go back, but I would give it a shot first, cause all those musial overtones of the RY really make up a lot of goodness. Give it an honest try, you can always go back, but then youŽll know.
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Kiichi, yeah I see your point, good one too. I just ordered the 500k pot and will start there. Appreciate the insight !!
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Many Thanks gang !! I just ordered the Rebel Yell set :D
Very good choice. Coming from a JB, the Black Dog is a lot less output. RY will be closer but have a lot more cut, bite and articulation. I have a set in an LPC and they are not shrill in the least.
Have fun,
Stephan
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Rebel Yell's arrived today !!! Man free pack of strings, a pick, coaster, sticker !!!
Nice packaging, all around professional. I put them in but the wiring will have to wait till my 500k volume pot arrives from RS. Looking forward to this complete overhaul and the tone I hope to be getting. Will follow up with a review :)
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can you wire the bridge pup straight to the output jack?
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Yes wiring direct could be done but the 500k pot showed up today:)
I was excited to get to work and I ran into a problem. The wiring diagram I got with the kit is different than the one supplied with the RY's. I had ordered a Vintage/Modern style kit from RS Guitarworks. After some web digging I discovered this 50's wiring vs Modern wiring. I've seen this 50's thing but never knew what it was. In the past I've only soldered up non-tone circuits, I dropped the two tones in this LP prior.
So my gut tells me to follow the BKP's diagram. Seeing as these RY's are more of a modern affair I'd suspect doing the 50's thing might not be a option or benefit. So I'm stuck here wondering what the forum here knows and advises.
Thanks again gang !!!
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I've got '50s wiring on the two custom harnesses that I bought for my SG Standard and Explorer. I will get it done again soon for my SG Junior. I prefer it.
The BKP diagram just shows you the conventional way as that is simplest, introducing the fewest new variables. You can do it either way. '50s style changes the volume control response
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I am with Agent Orange. Just try both and see which you like better - that is the right one.
Cheers Stephan
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Rebel Yells installed with modern wiring set up. On first impression the low end is very tight and full of grunt, drive and attitude. The midrange is no JB that's for sure, not saying it should be but after all these years of JBing it that caught me. I'm not sure what Im thinking quite yet tho there's a nice clarity when you pick notes with distortion. The RY loves GAIN at the amp !! WOW !! That was very noticeable and it never got muddy, flubby and retained definition. That's major pleasing :D
The high end is where I'm kinda not sure. Probably best way I can explain is it's accurate too the point of exposing my sloppy playing LOL !! I'd say over time that would be a benefit. I need to adjust the pick up height around some see where the sweet spot is on my guitar. I didn't spend too much time on that yet. Harmonics !! Dang real easy to get them screaming. JOY JOY JOY in that regard :D
So just my first sit down with the RY, I've got too spend more time. First impressions it's responsive to picking dynamics and expects the player to be on game with his chops. No half ass oh good enough going to get you anywhere using a RY !!!
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I think the RY excels with a ton of gain, sounds kind of ordinary with the light crunch, but that is just what i can hear, as i never played one.
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Ah I see you got the first proper idea Wayne.^^ Yeah, this one is brutal in how much it shows if you $%&# up. On the plus side, if you do it right it is glorious. I recon you will find yourself starting to adjust pretty quickly.
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More jamming late last night and some fresh ears morning run thru.
Good grief the RY's are demanding, very accurate and lots of attitude. I worked the height positions and this is critical !! Its not a approximate that will do like Ive experienced in the past. If one purchases these you must find the sweet spot on your guitar. Ive got the low end locked in and what a kick in the pants !! Its so immediate right there ready to launch. The mids and high end Im close but Ill have to resort to the pup screws for final detailing.
Im still kinda mixed on the mids and high end. Mids only because of years of JBing but I brought the amp up to compensate some. The high end IMO is bright as in the cutting of it. Its not grating or fizzy just sharp. I can see how this would benefit in a live situation tho. Still my ears say hey wait a minute here but when my playing is accurate the cut sits collectively with the rest of the pickups voice. Id say it adds to the harmonic jump too. I love the harmonic content of the RY's, thats a total blast !! I backed down the high end on the amp some, did feather out some brightness but the cut is wicked. I think again thats tied to the immediate response and clarity the RY's have.
Finally as Ive mentioned the more gain the merrier :D This pickup loves gain gain gain !! Ive got the Splawn pegged on the gain and no issues with the RY's tracking thru it, amazing :guitar4:
I'll continue to dial in and adjust my playing. Im curious how they will do with more classic rock textures in the lower gain categories. Wont know till my playing comes around to the demands of the Rebel Yell's but all in all these pick up don't suck. You gotta have your act together to get whats available and when you do, you get Rebel Yelled at :good:
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Indeed - the RY cuts and loves gain. It still can do Foreigner tones well.
Cheers Stephan
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hope you enjoy the Rebel Yells.
Really like the top on your LP