Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: gwEm on February 04, 2014, 01:30:52 PM
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i had this idea the other day, and in fact looking at the manual for the Boss Super Octave pedal it seems this is something some people do.
anyone one tried it though, does it work effectively?
basically you split the signal, one branch goes through your usual guitar chain, and the other branch goes through an octave pedal (set to wet signal only) into bass big, or direct to the PA I guess.
the Boss Super Octave has separate wet/dry output to avoid using the splitter.
I guess it all depends on the sensitivity and tracking of the octave pedal. Apparently, you can set the Boss to track the lowest notes only, meaning you can play chords. Perhaps there are better octave pedals available though for this?
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My house mate has an Ashdown bass combo which has a sub octave (1 down) knob on it. It isn't particularly loud and doesn't dominate but using a fuzz pedal and splitting the signal into that and my JCM800 makes it sound the TITS!!
Dont EHX tout their Micro POG as a good bass emulator?
Paddy
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interesting stuff there..
i'll check out the Micro POG.
i used an octave pedal just once before. playing chords into it seemed to confuse it. what would be good is if you play a chord into it, the pedal just picks the lowest note to do the octave effect.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ikk0JFLv6WU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ikk0JFLv6WU)
looks like just what i was thinking of..
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(they don't actually play any chords though)
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Boss OC-3 does that I think. http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=608 (http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=608)
I need to get me a proper octave pedal...
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yes, the Boss looks interesting too.
really, I should try both in a store or something.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhC0uOkR4Fc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhC0uOkR4Fc)
at 3m51s they play some chords. it sounds like its working well, but hard to say for sure
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I am assuming this is for live work. Why not kick it old school and play bass synth w your feet? :)
I use a Roland FC200 going MIDI out to a Dave Smith MOPHO. Killer low bass that gets the job done without interfering w the guitar work. Roland has a rather expensive bass pedal like the old Taurus bass pedals. You will still need an external sound module, though.
Alternatively, add a Roland GK pickup to your guitar or a MIDI pickup and use an external sound module set for a bass sound going into its own amp.
Penultimately, you can hunt down a real Taurus ...
And ultimately ... Find a bass player :)
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I am assuming this is for live work. Why not kick it old school and play bass synth w your feet? :)
I use a Roland FC200 going MIDI out to a Dave Smith MOPHO. Killer low bass that gets the job done without interfering w the guitar work. Roland has a rather expensive bass pedal like the old Taurus bass pedals. You will still need an external sound module, though.
Alternatively, add a Roland GK pickup to your guitar or a MIDI pickup and use an external sound module set for a bass sound going into its own amp.
Penultimately, you can hunt down a real Taurus ...
And ultimately ... Find a bass player :)
They all sound like the boring ways! Synths?! MIDI?! Rocking two amps and an octave pedal is the way forward! YOWZA!!
Paddy
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I am assuming this is for live work. Why not kick it old school and play bass synth w your feet? :)
I use a Roland FC200 going MIDI out to a Dave Smith MOPHO. Killer low bass that gets the job done without interfering w the guitar work. Roland has a rather expensive bass pedal like the old Taurus bass pedals. You will still need an external sound module, though.
Alternatively, add a Roland GK pickup to your guitar or a MIDI pickup and use an external sound module set for a bass sound going into its own amp.
Penultimately, you can hunt down a real Taurus ...
And ultimately ... Find a bass player :)
Hey Ben,
Yeah, you are quite right, its for live work. I /was/ also thinking about using some MIDI bass pedals like Rush.
You probably know Moog do something called a Minitaur which is a desktop sound module with the Taurus synth inside. It's relatively affordable and could be used with some MIDI bass pedals. Also, not spending any money at all, I have already a few synths that could be used, or perhaps a little sampler.
I saw the expensive Roland full-business bass pedals. As you say, they are.. expensive, and actually quite bulky.
Had no idea though that the FC200 allows you to transmit note data. This is a great bit of information. Ought to be cheaper and more transportable.
I must say this forum remains a great source of knowledge, already two excellent tips.
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They all sound like the boring ways! Synths?! MIDI?! Rocking two amps and an octave pedal is the way forward! YOWZA!!
Paddy
:lol:
Or maybe doing both the MIDI synth and the octave pedal..
I like the octave pedal idea because I am concerned about my level of skill to operate the MIDI and guitar at once. If the octaver works well, I don't need to think about it :)
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The 1 octave down setting on the Morpheus Drop Tune is the best sounding '1 octave down type' pedal I've used myself.
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The 1 octave down setting on the Morpheus Drop Tune is the best sounding '1 octave down type' pedal I've used myself.
How does it work if you play chords into it? Do you get all the notes octaved, or root note only?
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I've used the POG, and a Digitech Whammy DT. They both drop everything you play, full chords. They do it very well indeed, but not just the root note, as you want. For that, I think Ben's suggestion of a guitar synth is the only real option. You can set it to put a bass instrument only on selected strings. You can also have the other strings be flutes, or banjos or alien choirs if you want :)
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Thanks for the input Blue, very useful.
I read this review on the Boss website about the OC3. It does root notes with chords. Could be the answer. Ought to be easy to try in almost any music store.
http://www.roland.co.uk/assets/media/pdf/Boss%20OC-3%20Review%20in%20Performing%20Musician.pdf (http://www.roland.co.uk/assets/media/pdf/Boss%20OC-3%20Review%20in%20Performing%20Musician.pdf)
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that does sound like in the polyphonic mode it'll only play the low note. very interesting. looks like you've found your pedal :)
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That does, indeed, look like a pithy answer to your dilemma. Certainly worth a shot!
And, yes, the FC200 does indeed send Note Change, including octave up and down, data. It will also do Program Change, Contol (start/stop/play and other transport controls for your sampler or DAW) and SysEx for use with other Roland gear. The pedal can be used as a volume or expression pedal and has SIX jacks for external switches. MIDI in and out. A little picey, but super versatile! And it can take batteries or external power supply.
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That does, indeed, look like a pithy answer to your dilemma. Certainly worth a shot!
And, yes, the FC200 does indeed send Note Change, including octave up and down, data. It will also do Program Change, Contol (start/stop/play and other transport controls for your sampler or DAW) and SysEx for use with other Roland gear. The pedal can be used as a volume or expression pedal and has SIX jacks for external switches. MIDI in and out. A little picey, but super versatile! And it can take batteries or external power supply.
Are you on commission? ;)
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There was a band that used to do this after their bass player died. They were featured in Guitar World once.
What he did was to use an additional pickup (I think an actual bass pickup), either between the two pickups or squeezed in between bridge pickup and bridge. That second signal went into an octaver and into a separate bass amp. I heard the band and it sounded tight and good, quite powerful (essential you're mixing an octaved bass signal to the guitar after all), but of course every note was the same as the guitar.
I'm not sure why he went into all the trouble of installing a separate pickup system on the guitar and didn't just split the normal humbucker signal, but I'm guessing it was the sound that mattered. I think maybe you could do something similar with the hexaphonic pickup from Boss/Roland and their midi signal, which would be far less invasive. In any case, as I see it the factors that make basses sound like basses are:
- scale
- thickness of strings
- tuning
- bass pickup
- bass amp
So simply octaving a signal omits the 4 other parts. Just think why an 8-string guitar still sounds more like a guitar than a bass.
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Are you on commission? ;)
Are you always such a d!ck?!
I am going to say this nicely: Stop trolling all of my replies!
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So I tried the Boss OC-3 (my drummer had one):
guitar --> OC3 --direct out--> tuner --> guitar amp
--effect out--> bass amp
In the 'poly' mode the tracking on the Boss is pretty decent, probably not as good as a POG, but workable. It does play polyphonic notes on the output too, however there is an adjustment control which acts as a range - so you can set the highest note to which the octave effect is applied.
I set the range to trigger on the 7th fret on the A string and below - so the 2nd highest E. There is a bit of 'fuzziness' here - you can't set an exact cut off, but you can get it near enough.
Anyway, this obviously triggers power chords on the octave output if you fret them on the E and the A. Thats not ideal, but you can work around it.
I think the tracking could be a little better, it always gets the right notes, but if you are playing *really* fast it is a little sloppy.
All of this stuff you can work around, being careful when playing chords on the lower strings - getting a good set-up on the range control. Also the Boss's octave tone isn't the greatest (sounds like a synth rather than a bass guitar) but its totally fine and has its own charm.
The range control, and the separate direct/effect outputs are what make the Boss probably the only usable for this. I wonder about a POG, but feeding it with filtered signal, split from the main guitar signal - but this is already two extra pedals.
So what of the actual results? There is a small adjustment in playing style as I say, but the results are well worth it! The low end of the octave is **absolutely immense** through the separate bass amp.
If you leave the low E, or A, ringing you can solo on the upper strings and you get a lovely warm drone filling in the bass end.
I've just ebayed my own OC-3 and a little mixer to experiment further at home.
One idea I had was to use a normal guitar pickup but with 12 pole pieces, wired to its own output. If you removed the pole pieces of the 4 upper strings, you could use a better sounding pedal - something like the POG maybe. But anyway, that would involve mods to the guitar. The Boss does it all in one handy box.
A manufacturer could easily make a better version of what the Boss OC-3 does. In poly mode it doesn't really play only root notes, its genuinely polyphonic, but the range knob allows you to work around it. Modern digital technology would definitely allow detection of the root note.
In the absence of something better, the OC-3 is decently workable in this application as a bass emulator. There doesn't seem to be an easier/better solution at the moment.
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Nice! Looks like your hard work paid off.