Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Ale84 on February 06, 2014, 12:55:44 AM
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Hi,
I recently put a classic 57 plus in my les paul studio but i honestly don't like it. It was an improvement in clarity compared to the stock but it's flat and don't have the 3d/deepness of the stock one. I've heard great things about bare knuckle pickups so i was wondering if you could address me to one of them. I play different stuff but mostly rock like pearl jam,alice in chains so from clean to highly distorted sounds ( think about "dam that river").
Thank you
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hmm pearl jam / alice in chains. i could be way off compared to everyone elses suggestion but i feel you might like the nailbomb. when it comes to clarity, you can pick any Bare knuckle and have all the clarity you need. the nailbomb can certainly get pretty heavy and handle cleans quite well. plus they do quite well in les pauls, and you also have a choice between the alnico and ceramic version depending on a final preference.
like i said though, it may not be the BEST suggestion. but i'll let others chime in
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I was considering mule, black dog and rebel yell. The first two seems good but i'm afraid they will sound like the 57 which i didn't like. Any suggestion is appreciated
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The Mule would cover Pearl Jam, but so would several others on the BKP range. It's PAF vintage though, so if you want more push in the drive, you could go a bit hotter like the Emerald.
The Nailbomb wouldn't have been my choice, but i just installed one in my Tokai Les Paul last week and it's perfect, but modern sounding.
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If the Les Paul Studio has a balanced natural tonespectrum, I would look at Mules. If it's darksounding Emeralds.
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Thanks for the inputs. Any opinion on the holydriver/rebel yell?
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I was considering mule, black dog and rebel yell. The first two seems good but i'm afraid they will sound like the 57 which i didn't like. Any suggestion is appreciated
The neck pickups in these three sets have similar output which is traditional/vintage. The Mule should be the most PAF like. The other two are a bit more modern in their overall character, both will work well for clean and lead tones.
Black Dog and Rebel Yell bridge are quite different though. The RY has more output than the BD. Both should sound noticeably clearer than the 57 classic.
Cheers Stephan
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After the bad experience with the 57 i feel like my next pickup has to be a sort of high pickup able to do heavy rock like some classic rock.. Something like the jb probably
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After the bad experience with the 57 i feel like my next pickup has to be a sort of high pickup able to do heavy rock like some classic rock.. Something like the jb probably
That sounds like an Emerald or Rebel Yell set, depending on whether you want '70s or '80s
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For classic rock I'd stick to Mules, unless you want to sacrifice the musicality of an open sounding pickup and and prefer more compression and a more modern tone like the RY's have. Besides that, Mules do everything better than the classic 57's.
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After the bad experience with the 57 i feel like my next pickup has to be a sort of high pickup able to do heavy rock like some classic rock.. Something like the jb probably
The Rebel Yell does heavy stuff in the sense of John Sykes and Randy Rhoads very well. It has a lot of output but does not go overboard with it. The neck pickup is low output and very clear. They are very balanced as a set.
I don't have any experience with the Emerald other than having read that the bridge pickup is very bright and the neck pickup very smooth.
Since you mentioned the JB the Holydiver would be an alternative as well. Output is similar to the Rebel Yell, the tone would be warmer but still very articulate and not as overcompressed as the JB.
Cheers Stephan
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thanks..the most versatile set seems to be the nail bomb. It's difficult to choose; there is a great offer and moreover most of the clips i've heard/saw on the internet are metal oriented which i'm not
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thanks..the most versatile set seems to be the nail bomb. It's difficult to choose; there is a great offer and moreover most of the clips i've heard/saw on the internet are metal oriented which i'm not
You might be best off with an Emerald neck paired with either a Rebel Yell or Holy Diver bridge. The Emerald is a beautiful neck pickup, although some people find the bridge pickup a bit bright (I don't think it's too bright in my friend's Les Paul Studio, but I do like bright pickups as long as they also have plenty of mids).
The Nailbomb has quite a metal sound to it. I have a Nailbomb set, and I really like it, but I don't think it's as versatile as my Cold Sweat set. It is much better than the Cold Sweat though for hardcore, powerviolence, and more aggressive sounds like that.
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thanks..the most versatile set seems to be the nail bomb. It's difficult to choose; there is a great offer and moreover most of the clips i've heard/saw on the internet are metal oriented which i'm not
The Nailbomb is very agressive in the uppermids and has that topend sizzle you like or not. It a great pickup for metal and does heavy riffing very well, but when I think Pearl Jam you'd better look in de the vintage(hot)-range.
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If you drop tune a lot its got to be Aftermath.
I have a nailbomb in my back up guitar which is also a Les Paul and it is brighter and zingy-er
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Yes the Rebel Yell is a more modern affair but not to the point of sacrificing vintage character. Id say it leans bit more modern only due to its clarity, tightness and cut tho its core is vintage to a good degree. The volume knob works wonders and be prepared to tighten up your playing. The dynamics are incredible even buried in gobs of gain. I did find the RY sounded better at half step down tuning vs the standard 440A. If you have a dark guitar this pup will wake it up. If you got a bright one be prepared to make some amp adjustments. The high end isn't buzzy, fizzy or grating it just has a dominate cut to it.
The neck pup is stellar in all regards. The best neck Ive ever experienced. It handles gain well, volume knob adjustments ect... Great compliment to the bridge.
The Rebel Yell dosent suck by no means. These are only the things I found after installing in my Les Paul Classic. If you want more classic tone do a Mule or Blackdog. You can get good classic vibe, its really a rock pup. Thing does 80's metal no problem, loves down tuning and handles dump truck loads of gain. Again, be prepared to have your weaknesses be highlighted. The Rebel Yell demands you to play with conviction and proper execution. When you do its very rewarding and inspiring. If you don't oh its brutal !! Ive never experienced such a thing :D
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I think i'll go for a ry. From opinions and reviews It seems the only pickup able to do some classic ac/dc to heavier alice in chains soundgarden sounds. Furthermore it seems to have a good clean too..basically a modern/ vintage pickup.. Right?
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I think i'll go for a ry. From opinions and reviews It seems the only pickup able to do some classic ac/dc to heavier alice in chains soundgarden sounds. Furthermore it seems to have a good clean too..basically a modern/ vintage pickup.. Right?
Correct and good choice. Fiddle with the height. Especially the RY is hard to set right.
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i really hope
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Rebel Yell is an interesting option. It's a bright and midrange focused pickup which is extremely tight in the bass. It's not the beefiest pickup - which makes it suitable for muddy guitars - but it cuts like a razor. It can sound a bit thin in the wrong guitar or with the wrong amp.
It's a modern take on a classic tone, it will do rock and metal like a champ. It also has a lot of cool vintage tones when you roll off the volume a bit.
The craziest thing, though, is the clarity it has under extreme gain settings. Crank the gain and it maintains this complexity and clarity! I think it would be a very appropriate tone for a Les Paul Studio.
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Yes pick up height on the RY is critical. I've been jacking mine around quite abit. It doesn't take much but on my LP pretty close up on the strings works really good. I'm also tweeking the pole screws as well. I've tapered off on the high E and B strings and have that side of the pick up pulled tad further away than the low E side. After some goofing around I got the low side set and been working small adjustments on the high side. That's been bit difficult but I'm pretty close. You gotta set it to your guitar !! Don't give up on it and and play with conviction !! I mean play the f$&#% !!!! Serious it's the strangest thing I've ever experienced. The better you play the better it sounds ten fold.
BTW I ran thru a few Ozzy/Randy riffs and started grinning. Does the Randy era real well. Soon as I get off the metal train I'm going to work some more classic stuff see what RY's can do there. My guess so far is the volume knob is going to be the key.
All in all I'm pleased with the RY's for the fact that it's helping me focus and in a weird way talks back to me. I'm very curious if other BKP's have the same deal ?? I'd love to grab another LP and do Mules or Blackdogs. Then get something to drop the Holydiver in !!!
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I was going to buy the ry but i've read some opinions here on the forum about riiff raff, mule and abraxas and i'm back with doubt/ gas.. I can't win : )
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I was going to buy the ry but i've read some opinions here on the forum about riiff raff, mule and abraxas and i'm back with doubt/ gas.. I can't win : )
Thing with BKP is that you will get a good choice of pickups for each style and guitar usually. More than one pickup can nail a style, but they will all do it with a different flavour. Believe me I know how hard it is to wrap your head around this. You gotta know what which pickup does in which kind of guitar and wood and how it reacts with the rest of the gear, or have people who kinda have some idea about this, which is what we do around here.
Even with that given you have to at least try and do what might be the hard part and figure out where your focus is and what kind of character you want to have. Does not have to be perfect, but it is important that you get as close as possible. Things like how open/compressed do I want my sound? Do I want singing or agressive? Wall of sound bass or tight punchyness? High mid or low mid focus...or centermids? All these things are on a contiuum and there are many more.
Describing sound is super hard and imagining it in your head is too...bringing the two together is an even bigger challenge.
Unfortunentally that is the process that yields the best result. So talk to us, tell is what you are looking for and we will do our best to help you along.
@Wayne_S You really say a lot of spot on things and great observations about the Rebel Yell in many different posts. I might have said this before, but it needs to be said again: It would be very, very cool if you could would write up a full blown review of it once you have really settled in with it.
The RY was my first BKP and the one that had me fall in love but you kinda point out things that I experienced but did not necerarily notice (if that makes sense) and put all the rest in fitting terms too. Cheers to those little bits of insight!
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Thanks guys! Basically i want a versatile pick up and i'm not a metal guy. So i would like good clean and big full rock chords. But at the same time i want to play also some hard stuff, and for hard stuff i mean dam that river from alice in chains or slave by silverchair
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Thanks guys! Basically i want a versatile pick up and i'm not a metal guy. So i would like good clean and big full rock chords. But at the same time i want to play also some hard stuff, and for hard stuff i mean dam that river from alice in chains or slave by silverchair
To me that sounds like the Rebel Yell, or maybe the Emerald.
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@Kiichi,
Thanks Sir !! Your comments are spot on as well. I do plan here soon to give a complete review on the RY's. I'll do that after I get settled in with it as you mentioned and after I take the LP to the luthier shop for fret level, crown set up. Hasn't been in for long long long time. Going to be quite crazy having it all dialed and then really get at them RY's !!
@Ale84,
Yes stepping into BKP's can be a daunting task. Myself had a 3-4 month long deal till I took a shot at the RY's. Kiichi has very valid points. I'll add that since I got my RY's I'm now starting to see clearer what I might expect when getting the next model in the BKP stable. If you get Mule, RY's, Blackdog, Emeralds ect ... regardless if you nail it spot on the first shot just take time and get familiar with it. Once you get the vibe of BKP you'll be more confident with your next pick. I've read people here mentioning BKP's have a 3D effect. I wasn't quite sure what that meant but my take is the connection you make. I've never had before in a pickup. I've experienced it in tube amps and it's very similar. I suspect all the BKP's have this quality to some degree or another and IMO after experience with one model it's not to difficult knowing what you'll get with the 2nd purchase. I'd also bet if you don't hit it first time you can sell and pick again with out a problem. Myself there will be couple more BKP's rolling here :)
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For the socalled D3-effect get some Mules in a LP or LP-style guitar. They're awesome.
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The mules seem great but i think they would cover the clean and full chords needs but not the heavier sounds.. Anyway the 3d thing is very attracting
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The mules seem great but i think they would cover the clean and full chords needs but not the heavier sounds.. Anyway the 3d thing is very attracting
Don't worry, they handle gain very well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cCLLayxX-w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cCLLayxX-w)
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:D interesting...
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After the bad experience with the 57 i feel like my next pickup has to be a sort of high pickup able to do heavy rock like some classic rock.. Something like the jb probably
I've been using mainly high output pups for quite a while (including JBs and Nailbomb), and I can tell you that you _dont_ need anything hotter than Mules or RiffRaff for heavy (and I mean HEAVY) rock stuff. It's not a problem of output but definition (or more exactly: ability to retain definition under gain). Mules will do anything rock with no problem (including Pearl Jam) and even some metal (possibly not djent <g>).
For more br00talz stuff like AiC, the ABombs could make you happy - they have that abrasive yet low-mids heavy roar -, and they also do a pretty decent job at more classic rock and bluesy tones when rolling down the volume pot, but you won't have as much of that "instant classic LP tones - and then some" as with Mules, and less versatility.
tl;dr : unless you're mostly interested in modern hi-gain stuff and you don't really care about magic clean / crunch tones, I strongly suggest you first give the Mules a try - chances are you won't look back.
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Thanks.. If mules do alice in chains well i'll buy them without any doubt.. Witn Abomb you mean nailbomb?
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Thanks.. If mules do alice in chains well i'll buy them without any doubt.. Witn Abomb you mean nailbomb?
Yeah, in the alnico version. It is forum lingo and we often forget that it can confuse people....took me a bit to figure out back in the day too. Abomb = alnico nailbomb; Cbomb = Ceramic Nailbomb; APig = Alnico Warpig; CPig = Ceramic Warpig.
Mules should do you nicely I would say. When driven they have an amazing old school rocking dirt to them that is pretty unique I find. There is a reason ´59 humbuckers are somewhat of the goldstandard of the humbucker world.
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the OP seems a little confused
the 498t is one of the least 3d sounding pickups I've ever played
and if he likes it better than the '57 classic, I don't see why he would like the mule any better
perhaps something thicker and more compressed like the crawler or the holy diver
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It's not 3d but it's deeper and also more scooped than the classic 57, no doubt about it to my ears
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I have never had a 498T in one of my guitars. I had the 57Classics and did not like them. I found them quite dull with the covers on and fuzzy with the covers off. Probably the 498T has more output and bass than the 57Classic so my hint would be to look for the higher output models in the vintage hot or the lower output models in the contemporary range.
Still I think the Rebel Yell would be best, with the Holydiver as a warmer alternative.
Cheers Stephan
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I had a 498T in my SG, replaced it with a Cold Sweat. Beats it comprehensively in every department, including output.
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Thanks.. If mules do alice in chains well i'll buy them without any doubt.. Witn Abomb you mean nailbomb?
As I mentionned ABombs would do a better job at AiC tones - the Mules will stand this gain level without problem and deliver great tones but will still keep a more vintage character and won't give this "90s metal" edge.
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Ok, i'll for RY. Finger-crossed :D
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Not too get ya all confused but I've heard tracks with Mules and Blackdogs that were very heavy and metal to a point. The one post here about retaining definition at amp gain is spot on. IMO the last thing anybody wants is mush and lack of clarity under loads of amp or pedal gain for that matter. It seems in general lower output pups track better thru gobs of gain. I'd venture to guess what kind of tone you want when you or if you are going to be up in massive gain ? I can tell you the RY's track real good thru gain galore. Still I'm not saying a Mule or Blackdog might suit your situation better. For what it's worth my next BKP is going to be a Mule or Blackdog once I find another LP to stick them in.
BTW there's plenty of mention of pots and caps on the forum here. I gutted my whole LP and bought a RS Guitarworks Vintage/Modern kit. Honestly if your gonna invest in a quality caliber pickup it's highly recommended you be sure you got good stuff wired to it.
Got my LP back from the luthier shop today. It got passed around jamming thru few hands before I left. They were asking .. What pickups are thoes ?? I had a harmonic fiesta jamming it before I got it in the case to come home. Luthier said it's perfect needs nothing more and never sell it !! Rebel Yell full review coming soon :D
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Black dog and mule is something i'm considering with the rebel yell like like also an upgrade in pots etc.. Looking forward to read your review of ry!!
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You might also want to consider something between the Riff Raff and the Rebel Yell, i.e., the Emerald. They sound especially good in Les Pauls. The have the higher output (a little less than a Rebel Yell, the one I got measured around 12.9K from memory) than a Riff Raff but still with a vintage character. Like the RR and RY it's a brighter pickup that will balance out the usually dark character of a Les Paul.
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Bareknuckles suggested me to go eith a set of nailbombs but i still think a bd/ mule combo or a ry might be better for me. The emeralds, from what i read, seem to be too bright also on mahogany guitars so i guess i'm going to discard them
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The emeralds, from what i read, seem to be too bright also on mahogany guitars so i guess i'm going to discard them
The Emerald was designed for the Les Paul, i can't see it being a problem in there.
The BD is great for Led Zep riffs, but has a ton of low mids and little or no high mids. If you prefer balanced pups, then you might not like the BD for most tones. But that was just my experience.
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Thr confusion grows : ) i have to say that i own a kemper so i'd have chances to shape the sound with eq's etc..
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I have talked with Tim and he suggested the riffraff so i'll go for them. I'm also considering a pot upgrade. I think the stock are 300. Is it worth? Do they really change the sound of the guitar?
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Humbucker pots should be 500k. For some bizzare reason, Gibson put 300k in their guitars, which will cut some high end off the tone.
The BKP 550k pots will be brighter than the Gibson 300K.
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I have talked with Tim and he suggested the riffraff so i'll go for them.
Should work fine for you. A bit punchier / middier / more focused than Mules but still classically voiced and with great cleans - the RR neck is one of BKPs hidden gems IMHO.
I'm also considering a pot upgrade. I think the stock are 300. Is it worth? Do they really change the sound of the guitar?
They don't change the basic voicing / character of the guitar but higher values pots will bring back a fair share of high end content - and you'll always be able to tame the highs again with your tone pots if needed. Technical part : even wide opened your pots act as part of a low-pass filter circuit formed by the pickup / pots / cable / next stage input (amp or pedal or whatever). The higher the resistance, the higher the cut-off frequency.
IOW : go for 500 or 550K pots, and while you're at it get better caps also (not sure the type of caps - ceramic, paper in oil or whatever really makes a huge difference but higher quality caps will be closer to the nominal value and _this_ can make a very obvious difference) and try either a gibson 50s wiring or a treble bleed cap - both are ways to avoid loosing too much trebles when rolling down the volume pot, each has it pros and cons (IOW choose whatever works for you).
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Yes good quality pots and caps do make a difference. Insures you get the results that your pickups were designed to sound like. Also a good quality solder job is important as well !! Over heating can damage and sometimes ruin the components. I gutted my whole guitar and redid everything, even pulled the tailstock stud and replaced the ground wire. Id even go as far as suggesting replacing the factory stuff, which most of the time is garbage, before swapping pickups. This will give you a baseline on what you have and how to approach a new pickup purchase tho we all want them new pups regardless :lol:
I wouldn't say a overhaul on the wiring kit produces dramatic results but it lends clearer definition and improves the guitar-amp response relationship.