Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: littleredguitars2 on March 07, 2014, 04:41:32 PM

Title: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 07, 2014, 04:41:32 PM
i want to put some locking tuners on my new les paul. it has non-locking grovers on it currently and i'd like to avoid adjusting the hole size. so i assume all grovers are the same hole size. i'm just curious if anyone has experience with them and what they think.

thanks
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: JaycoxGuitars on March 07, 2014, 05:06:24 PM
http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/necks/tunerholes.aspx (http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/necks/tunerholes.aspx)

No experience with Grover locking tuners but according to Warmoth a Grover is a Grover.  I've used both Sperzel and Planet Waves locking tuners, and the Sperzels, while more expensive, are definitely better.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 07, 2014, 06:09:25 PM
Yeah I really don't want to spend the extra money on bringing them to my guitar tech though since they are a different size.  People recommend them a lot though
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Philly Q on March 07, 2014, 06:22:00 PM
I prefer Gotohs, and they do make a tuner which will directly replace Grovers (without having to drill new screw holes).  Quite hard to get hold of the right ones though, especially in gold.

To fit Planet Waves or Sperzels you'd have to enlarge the holes for the tuners to 10mm (or 25/64" or whatever it is), all the way through the headstock.  I wouldn't do it!

The locking Grovers are OK though, and not much heavier than the non-locking ones.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 07, 2014, 09:47:08 PM
I replaced non-locking Grovers with auto-locking Grovers in my Explorer.

I like them, but I think you should be aware that the posts tend to be a bit taller than the normal ones, and this can be an aesthetic issue if that worries you.  They apparently work fine in Les Pauls though.

There are some reviews of them on the Stew Mac site
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 07, 2014, 10:11:02 PM
yeah the stew mac reviews seemed favorable. i'd probably get the ones that have the turning mechanism on the back instead of the auto ones.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Lucas on March 07, 2014, 10:34:02 PM
When I was replacing my standard Grovers with locking Sperzels Trim-Lock in my Dean, I didn`t have to enlarge any holes or anything like that. They fitted perfectly straight away. Just check it.

Never used locking Grovers, but I can tell you that Sperzels are superb. I`ve been using them for well over a year now and they`re great. You can get them on ebay for about 50-60$. Even that shipping cost to the UK raised the price up slightly, it was still worth it. As far as I remember you live in the US so it`ll be even cheaper for you.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 07, 2014, 10:47:15 PM
from what i've heard, sperzels have an alignment peg underneath the main tuning peg that i'd have to drill for.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 07, 2014, 11:10:12 PM
Grover -> Grover is a direct replacement unless you are using the 'vintage replacement' (tulip style) Grovers, which are a Gibson fitment.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Tuners/Grover_Deluxe_Keystones.html (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Tuners/Grover_Deluxe_Keystones.html)
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 07, 2014, 11:22:54 PM
these are the ones i have now

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Tuners/Grover_Rotomatic_Keystone_Tuners.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=46 (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Tuners/Grover_Rotomatic_Keystone_Tuners.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=46)

but it says its 10mm and the ones i'm lookin at are 10mm so i should be okay
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 08, 2014, 12:21:42 AM
Are you looking at these?

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Tuners/Grover_Roto-Grip_Full-size_Locking_Guitar_Machines.html (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Grover_Tuners/Grover_Roto-Grip_Full-size_Locking_Guitar_Machines.html)

The auto lockers are like 200 thou taller.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 08, 2014, 12:34:57 AM
yeah. do you think the auto locking tuners would be the safer bet?
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 08, 2014, 12:37:36 AM
looks like the ones i have installed are pretty much in between the 2 for length
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 08, 2014, 01:30:33 AM
I have the auto-locking sort, and they are simple to use.  Doesn't sound like your guitar is 'vintage correct' at the headstock anyway so I don't see the issue with replacing your existing Grovers with either type.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: JJretroTONEGOD on March 08, 2014, 09:59:08 PM
personally I think grovers especially the gold ones, just look and feel right on a gibson LP, although I also love sperzel I think that grovers are a good weight for a heavier guitar wheras sperzel can be good for shedding weight, just something to bear in mind.... you want the neck and headstock to feel balanced in relation to the body weight, an overly light headstock can make it feel weird from experience.

Ben.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 09, 2014, 12:16:10 AM
yeah i went with the grovers. i personally prefer the gold tulip tuners but i'll get over it
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 09, 2014, 01:34:26 AM
You ordered them in gold okay?
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Philly Q on March 09, 2014, 10:29:33 AM
yeah i went with the grovers. i personally prefer the gold tulip tuners but i'll get over it

I'm not 100% sure, only because I haven't tried it with these particular tuners, but you should be able to swap the tulip buttons from your existing Grovers onto the locking Grovers in place of the kidney bean buttons.  Try it and see.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 09, 2014, 11:47:29 AM
There might be some chance of swapping the locking internals for the non-locking ones, but I don't know if I'd try to remove the tuning head from its shaft.  I'm pretty sure they are a sealed lubricated unit.  I do remember though the shaft etc for the actual string winding etc sliding out.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 09, 2014, 01:03:53 PM
hmmm. not sure if i want to break them open and mess with them.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 09, 2014, 01:32:09 PM
I wouldn't.

I quite like the kidney shape ones though.

The Townsend SGs used them
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 09, 2014, 01:33:16 PM
my 335 has the kidneys. they arent awful. just not preferable
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Philly Q on March 09, 2014, 05:00:17 PM
I'm only talking about swapping the buttons over, not suggesting you touch the internal workings of either the tuning or locking mechanisms.

it's just a case of unscrewing 12 screws and swapping the buttons over, it's a piece of piss.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 09, 2014, 06:03:52 PM
hmmm maybe that would work
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Philly Q on March 09, 2014, 08:56:16 PM
I've swapped the buttons loads of times on Gotohs and Schallers.  Never Grovers, but I really can't imagine they'd be any different.  The only slightly tricky bit is tightening the screws just right so the tuners don't feel too loose or too stiff.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 10, 2014, 02:16:48 AM
Good to know man.  Thanks for the suggestion
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Brow on March 10, 2014, 05:26:20 PM
Wish Id've seen this before as have a set of gold Grovers or chrome Gotohs I would've let go for not much money. Bugger  :lol:
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on March 10, 2014, 08:27:41 PM
haha dang.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Dave Sloven on July 10, 2014, 12:46:18 AM
I have the chrome auto-locking tuners on my SG Junior now.  Great tuners, and they stay in tune much better than the Gibson tuners, but they are much heavier and I am experiencing some neck dive now.  Something to consider if buying tuners for a light guitar.  You can see the difference in mass in these photos.

(http://i.imgur.com/6C4LaJY.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/KNCckSN.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/0URV37j.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/TZYkhfe.jpg)
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: littleredguitars2 on July 17, 2014, 12:25:26 AM
yeah man those tuners are huge. i heard a good tip for guitar tilt. check it out in this video.

around 4:19 in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8A37hBbV-c
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Philly Q on July 17, 2014, 12:46:24 AM
yeah man those tuners are huge. i heard a good tip for guitar tilt. check it out in this video.

around 4:19 in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8A37hBbV-c

It's a good tip if it works, and I think Agent Orange himself had a similar idea.

Personally, as a fan of lightweight guitars, it seems pretty crazy to me to add weight at the headstock then try to counteract it by adding more weight in the control cavity.  Just my opinion, of course.
Title: Re: Are Grover locking tuners any good?
Post by: Dave Sloven on July 17, 2014, 03:32:57 PM
I've ordered some acrylic pearloid replacement tuner buttons from Taiwan.  Hopefully the reduce it sufficiently so that I don't have to do much in terms of counterweights, but the neck dive is very noticeable at the moment ...

As you can see in the listing they are the same shape as the Grovers

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/160947193050

They accepted my offer of $9  :smiley:


EDIT: The buttons arrived today, and were easy to fit and reduce the weight by a considerable margin, almost eliminating neck dive.  The difference between these self-locking Grovers with acrylic buttons and the Gibson tuners is now not much at all.