Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Tech => Topic started by: CommonCourtesy on October 16, 2014, 10:37:56 PM
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So I had a rehearsal tonight, and my low 6th string broke, near the bridge, as it usually did before, it was always one of the lowest 3 strings. I play in drop c tuning, and use Ernie Ball 12-56's.
It happened earlier in the year and I had the saddles cleaned and filed so they were all smooth. Thought I solved the problem there. But tonight it broke again, and I had only restrung it 2 weeks ago. Have checked and there's no burrs, haven't done much gigging for me to sweat into the grooves (which was probably causing the previous breakages) and I've strung it up ok.
So what else could it be? Cos for a new string to break within 2 weeks is something I don't get. I use a 0.88mm pick and am quite heavy handed, but usually its taken it ok.
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I use a 1.14mm pick, doubt it's the pick ... could be your picking action, but again I doubt it
I does seem like you might be a bit rough with them somehow, but have you considered the Graph Tech string saver saddles? I haven't broken a string on my SG Junior since installing a bridge incorporating those saddles, whereas I broke two strings on the Gibson wraptail that was on it originally and have broken at least one string this year on my Explorer with the TonesPros bridge
Obviously they also sell complete bridges but for Gibsons etc you can get replacement saddles.
http://www.graphtech.com/products/brands/string-saver
They will change your sound slightly - whether that's good or bad is up to you. You lose a bit of the 2K harmonics but gain them across the rest of the range.
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It could be bad strings. I had this problem constantly on guitars with TOMs when using D'addario or Ernie Ball.
On guitars with trems or Gibralter bridges which have strattish saddles I have never broken a string.
When I was using a les paul and currently on my Jackson I use DR Tite Fits or Elixirs and have never had one break.
I never did quite figure it out but the local store said its a common issue to do with the sharp break angle over the saddles how much truth there is in that I don't know but he was the one who recommended changing to DR & elixirs as they don't break as often.
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I'm trying to resist graphite as I have read they do affect your tone, lack of sustain, etc.
What other string brands do 12-56? I know DD do 11-56 or 12-60. Or do coated strings make much of a difference?
If its the quality of the string, I surely can get more than a fortnight's use out of the string at least? This is really pissing me off and if this is something that happens live then we have a problem!
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If you have a 10-band EQ like mine you can compensate for the graph tech saddles by boosting the 2K
Personally I found that works, but I also found that with the 2K a bit lower the lead guitarist is easier to hear over me.
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I'm trying to resist graphite as I have read they do affect your tone, lack of sustain, etc.
What other string brands do 12-56? I know DD do 11-56 or 12-60. Or do coated strings make much of a difference?
If its the quality of the string, I surely can get more than a fortnight's use out of the string at least? This is really pissing me off and if this is something that happens live then we have a problem!
It's not neccesary quality I have just never had luck with TOM bridges and EB or Daddario they always break near the saddle and the tech backed me up on it. However there are probably millions of people who do use them without issues also.
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Hmm, all I've ever used are DD and EB, never tried anything else. Can't seem to find any other brand that do 12-56 either, tends to be 11-54 or 12-60! Would mean filing the nut I think, for the 60 anyway.
The only thing that puts me off graphite saddles is the change in tone, like will it be noticeable? I could always try picking less hard but live its hard, or I could use a 0.73mm pick, not that it'd make much of a difference.
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You actually gain some harmonics across the board but you lose that 2K spike. You can compensate with an EQ.
The other thing you might consider is top-wrapping your strings. If the issue is the break angle that will help, whereas a graphite saddle might not in that instance.
How are your strings breaking? Does the core break first and then the string goes loose and floppy, with the winding still intact? The first time that happened someone said it might have been sweat related, and it did it again a couple of weeks later. Of course the geometry etc would have had some impact, but it is also the area where I rest my hand when palm-muting. I imagine you do a lot of that. If you are getting very sweaty maybe try a wristband
I haven't had a string break on that guitar since I installed the string saver bridge but that has also been the period since last summer. We'll see how I go through this summer
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What exactly does a "2K spike" mean?
I know you can get the classic string saver saddles which retain the original look of the stock one, but its not looks I'm fussed about its the sound.
The string breaks on the saddle at the ball end obviously, so yes it goes floppy and winding is still intact. I had an photo of an old string break showing exactly where it was, which I'll try to find. The sweating thing is a major factor I think, esp live, but it broke during the chorus of a song which was 3 powerchords! Just annoyed me it was a string that was barely a fortnight old.
The bit of my hand that sweats the most isn't my wrist its the fleshy part my my hand, parallel to where the 4th finger is. That sits on the string saddle area the most.
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The bit of my hand that sweats the most isn't my wrist its the fleshy part my my hand, parallel to where the 4th finger is. That sits on the string saddle area the most.
I don't suffer from sweaty hands so I guess I was assuming it was running down your arm, which is what I experience and where the sweatbands could help.
By a 'spike' I mean that there is a clear harmonic around 2K that gives the metal saddles that 'bite' that might be missing with the string saver saddles. I boost that frequency a little with my 10-band EQ. I didn't notice any worsening of tone, but then again I went from the 'lightning bar' wraptail to a bridge with actual saddles on it, so it's hard to compare. I have a properly intonated G string now, which I prefer over the stock wraptail even if the tone changed somehow. I'll take tune over tone any day! Your case is a bit different, in that it would just be changing one saddle material for another. I guess it's a 'suck it and see' kind of thing.
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Hmm maybe sometimes I'm too busy going crazy and running around to notice! I try to wipe down the strings after every time I play, including the saddle area. During rehearsals (which is when the breaks are occurring) I'm usually wearing a long sleeved top so I don't get sweaty running down my arms.
Ok well, I guess I won't really know what the difference will be til I try one with a different saddle. I have a pretty dark sound anyway, if its too bright it won't sit in the rhythm section very well.
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The danger is not in getting more bright, if you are losing some at 2K then it would be getting darker.
Also, have you tried top-wrapping the strings over the tailpiece? That reduces the angle.
http://jalan.hubpages.com/hub/The-Wrap-Over-Method-How-To-Avoid-Breaking-Electric-Guitar-Strings
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Its a mahogany wood guitar, to me it doesn't sound bright, some people say it is.
I haven't, no as it reduces sustain apparently.
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I found that top wrapping increased sustain, for one reason only: I can drop my tailpiece flat to the top when I do it.
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It sounds to me like its sweat corrosion that is causing your problems. I'd give coated strings a try.
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Sounds like an easy solution, coated strings cost a bomb though but one set to test out won't hurt.
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They are more expensive but they last significantly longer so it's worth it.
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You reckon it'll solve the problem completely? I mean before strings were breaking every 6 months or so now I've had 2 in the space of 3.
And they always seem to break at rehearsals, never gigs. I sweat more than I play in rehearsals but then again I change the set the night before every gig (unless its a tour) and the set is only 30 minutes or so. Rehearsals are a few hours.
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You reckon it'll solve the problem completely? I mean before strings were breaking every 6 months or so now I've had 2 in the space of 3.
And they always seem to break at rehearsals, never gigs. I sweat more than I play in rehearsals but then again I change the set the night before every gig (unless its a tour) and the set is only 30 minutes or so. Rehearsals are a few hours.
I cant say really but I had a similar issue with string corrosion and coated strings solved it. I was having sets last a week tops then coated generally last me a month or two.
The ernie Ball Cobalt are very durable too but they have a very defined sound and feel that some hate. They kinda make everything sound more metal and punchy/in your face.
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What guitar do you put them on? And do you sweat alot it goes into the saddles (if it has the LP style ones).
I'm looking more at the Titanium ones which are over double the price of the normal nickel ones. Will definitely get one set to try out though. Metal and punchy is good for what I do haha.
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What guitar do you put them on? And do you sweat alot it goes into the saddles (if it has the LP style ones).
I'm looking more at the Titanium ones which are over double the price of the normal nickel ones. Will definitely get one set to try out though. Metal and punchy is good for what I do haha.
I do in summer its unreal. It's why I started straying away from regular strings unless i can get a good bulk deal on them as I don't mind swapping them out every week or so then.
I use coated strings of various brands on all of my guitars. They have various ranging from an edge zero II, Kahler, TOM (on my jackson) and various gibralter bridges.
All of them have corroded somewhat other than the Kahler as it's just super over engineered and the Edge zero as thats only a few months old.
The Gibralters are just tarnished but the TOM i've had to replace twice due to it getting all manked up. The Tom is the only one I ever have breakage issues on too.
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How often are you changing the coated strings then? I could live with changing every month if it meant no breakages. Usually change every night before a show. The LP is the main band guitar and is the one used the most frequent, the others not so much so I can manage with uncoated strings. Usually use the regulars for my 'clean' guitars, i.e. Strat and Tele.
Will get a pack this week and put them on for the gig I'm playing at the end of the month, interested to see how long I get out of them.
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We see a lot more string breakage complaints these days than say 20+ years ago
But much of that is down to heavy palm muting, and a LOT of low string pedal tone playing, and possibly in some players cases less attention to maintenance and wiping down the strings after playing.
Another problem is that many of the cheaper guitars bridge saddle materials are a bit rubbish and tend to end up digging into the string , or getting all grooved up and covered in burrs (burrs=sharp edges)
going through the slots with a proper sized nut file (or a string warapped in 600 grit wet and dry ) can help smooth off these burrs
We use a great product called Mitchells abrasive cord
http://www.mitchellsabrasives.com/osc/ (http://www.mitchellsabrasives.com/osc/)
http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Sanding/Mitchell_Abrasive_Cord.html (http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Sanding/Mitchell_Abrasive_Cord.html)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQxfoz_iKUs
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I think its more linked with sweat corrosion and playing style for me, cos I can't see a burr or rough edges in the saddle, its just this time the string broke within 2 weeks of it being put on which is strange. If one of the other 2 thicker strings break at next rehearsal then I have a major problem, is it possible to only switch the bottom 3 saddles to graphite and leave the other 3 perhaps?
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You could switch out just one saddle if need be - just to get you past that problem if the saddle isto blame
Did you say it was a tunamatic?
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Wouldn't the tone be uneven though if you're mixing and matching?
And yes it is.
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I had this problem on an Epiphone Flying V even with coated strings.
The solution was to fit string saver saddles. The tone did change a bit, but not much and not in a bad way. No more broken strings. Used to break Es and As every couple of weeks, even with 11s.
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Well I just got a Titanium pack today, so the worst I can do is give them a go. If the problem still persists, then its got to be the saddles.
Quite strange though as I was only breaking strings every 6 months, and they weren't at shows. If I can avoid the string saddle savers then I will, not only cos of cost but sound too.
Saying that I could just jack it in and start playing a Telecaster haha.
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String breakage is almost always a problem with a saddle edge (too sharp, too step) or a sharp edged tuning machine head. If it's a string fault it will already break when you put them on and stretch them out (hence you should always stretch them properly when you put on new strings). Another hint is where they break - if they always break at the saddle you've found the guilty part.
A .56 gauge string is a very heavy string and should withstand tremendous picking force.
Look where sharp and try to smoothen that out (carefully!) like felineguitars suggested. You can probably find online tutorials as well. If the string angle from the tailpiece to the bridge is very steep, you can also try top-wrapping, but I personally (and lots of people will disagree!) feel that top-wrapping affects the sound and feel in a way I don't like.
If it is a LesPaul than there are also some premium quality replacement parts for TOM style guitars; quite often they can also tune the sound nicely. I was amazed at the difference my aluminium tailpiece made.
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I had them cleaned and filed about 3 months ago and not had any breakages since. I've looked closely and there doesn't seem to be any burrs or sharp edges as far as I can see. I'm still putting it down to the sweating, which is seeping into the saddles where the palm does the mutes, however as I haven't gigged since August and they were a new set of strings its weird why they broke so soon.
Agree with you on the top wrapping, that's why I don't want to do it!
I had the tailpiece changed to an aluminium one, it gives more sustain and bite.