Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Alex on October 25, 2014, 07:00:41 PM
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I currently have three guitars that all have contemporary pickups in the bridge. I am looking or something "more vintage" and a previous thread (long time ago) gave me some ideas.
I'm kind of stuck between the VHII, the Riff Raff and the Black Dog. The guitar is an ESP Eclipse and this particular one is a relatively dark sounding guitar with lots of mids. It once had a Seymour Duncan JB in it and that was not tight enough, too dark and too mushy on the low end.
Currently it has a Miracle Man in the bridge and a VHII in the neck. Here's where the trouble starts:
I want to keep the VHII in the neck. It does feel to me though as if it is very loud (when I play it clean) and my spec card lists it at a DC resistance of 8.3K, which sees a bit odd that it's .4 over the usual spec.
My questions: Would a VHII bridge be too mushy on the low end? Would a Black Dog bridge be too dark on the top end? Would a RiffRaff be overpowered by the VHII in the neck?
Soundwise I'd like it to be versatile really, but generally deep and clear with lots of "wood" coming through in the sound.
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Hi, I'm probably going to be trying my VH II bridge in one of my Eclipses later this week (I want to try the RY that I currently have in it in another guitar which in turn has a VH II set in it). I'll let you know how it turns out.
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Thanks, that would be great. You can send me a PM if you prefer.
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frankly i didnt like the VHII in my les paul custom. its not tight at all and the low end didnt do much for me. i feel like they are better suited for a super strat. i feel like the riff raff or mule would both be really good choices. if you're concerned about output maybe the abraxus
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Mule or a RiffRaff, if you want a woody tone.
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Hm, that doesn't bode well for the VHII bridge then.
Would a bridge Riff Raff be able to keep up with the VHII neck volume-wise?
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I don't think there will be a balanceproblem. You can always adjust the balance with height and, if necessary, different pots.
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Considered the Emerald?
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No, I want to stay under the 10k resistance really. The Rebel Yell would have been the other choice otherwise.
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the VH is quite bassy heavy, but very percussive and non-mushy
it's a like riff raff x cold sweat mix
I don't think the black should sound dark, but it does have a rounder top than the others
the neck vhII has close specs to bridge riff raff and does sound pretty close to a riff raff when installed in bridge position
the main difference is the slight midscoop vs the riff raff full midrange (not bumpy like the dog, but full)
considering the extra mids of the riff raff, I think they can balance well with proper height adjustments
I like the bridge riff raff very close to strings and the neck vhII set very low
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Would a VHII bridge be too mushy on the low end?
No. It's a very tight pickup.
Would a Black Dog bridge be too dark on the top end?
No. It's a rather bright pickup, much brighter e.g. than a Holydiver or Alnico Nailbomb.
Would a RiffRaff be overpowered by the VHII in the neck?
Most likely yes.
I have not played the Riff Raff bridge but for the tone you want I would recommend the Black Dog over the VHII.
Cheers Stephan
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Think the RR is better balanced than the others. Mule is vintage, but can handle the gain very well without getting mushy. but is a tad bright.
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The Black Dog is less woody than the RR and the Mule. Just to know.
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Hmmm.....the Black Dog, my least fav BKP because of the heavey low mids and vacant high mids, puts the balance in a strange way for me. :tongue:
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I've not had a chance to swap my VH II and RY around yet, and to be honest I think the RY is going to be too strong in the upper mids for that guitar, but back to the topic of the VH II in an Eclipse; the thing about the Eclipse is its lack of resonance. They're great guitars to play (I have three of them) but even though they have a set neck construction with a mahogany / maple body and mahogany neck they are very dry, when compared to a Les Paul for example, which presents some problems when choosing pickups for them. My experience is that unless you are a very technical and disciplined player (which I'm not - I started out as a bass player!) then a slightly compressed pickup is going to be high on your list of desirable characteristics (the guitar's lack of resonance doesn't smooth out differences in playing dynamics in the way that a much more resonant guitar would). I've tried a few different pickups in my Eclipses and my favourites so far are Rebel Yells, Crawler (bridge) and an EMG 57/66 set. The most disappointing was the Alnico Nailbomb set (mainly because the bridge was so sensitive to dynamics which was really emphasised in the Eclipse) but they sound awesome in my Telecaster HH (again, mahogany set-neck with a mahogany/maple body but much, much more resonant). Personally I'm tempted to try a set of Cold Sweats next.
I hope I haven't rambled on too much and that some of that is useful to you.
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Hmm, I read your post a couple of times and I think some things definitely ring true. I find it difficult to put my finger on the tonal characteristics of this guitar and it seems that high output pickups work more easily with it.
It's all worried me a bit now... maybe the Miracle Man is as good as it will get, tonally.
I could go back to the drawing board and consider getting lower output pickups for my Voodoo Les Paul instead.
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I've just put my Crawler back into one of my Eclipses (I had taken the Crawler set out to replace them with a Mule set) and I've just surprised myself with how good the bridge pickup sounds (the neck is a bit too dark for this guitar) - it certainly has that vintage vibe going on but with just enough compression and volume to work really well in this guitar, so I'd probably recommend that over the VH-II in the bridge although I'd probably consider the VH-II neck as one of the favourites to go in that position.
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I've played around more with my guitars and I'd only change the pickups in the Eclipse.
Crawler sounds interesting, but it isn't what I had in mind really.
Darkanddrew, which pickups have you tried in Eclipses and which didn't really work? How about the Mule? Have you tried that?
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The Mules were OK if a little tame; the tone was very neutral and the volume was hot enough to drive the amp with a little bit of grit in the low end but they didn't quite have enough bite in the upper mids to stand out. On low gain they are very mellow rather than jangly which suits the neck better than the bridge, and on high gain you can get Steve Steven's tone from "White Wedding" quite easily. So basically, nothing wrong with them at all - a bit of a "jack of all trades" really.
The Crawler bridge in the Eclipse is great for 80's rock and pop; driven hard with some chorus it covers most new wave bases very convincingly, take the chorus off and turn the gain down a little and you've got a more traditional rock tone, and take the gain down further and split the coils and you've got a very convincing single coil tone.
The Rebel Yells in the Eclipse took some tweaking (they are notoriously height sensitive) but once the sweet spot was found I real liked them; they really roar when driven hard but also have the presence that the Mules lack when the gain is turned down, however they're not as convincing as the Mules when it comes to a more vintage tone.
The Nailbombs, for whatever reason, didn't seem to work in the Eclipse; they worked perfectly well in other guitars but the chemistry just didn't work between NBs and the Eclipse - reflecting on it I think the NB needs a more resonant guitar.
I haven't tried the VH IIs yet in the Eclipse but from using them in my Showmaster and knowing how other pickups behave in the two respective guitars, I'd expect the VH II to have too much low end and not enough presence to shine in bridge position of the Eclipse, however, I'd expect the neck pickup to be ideal for clear, articulate leads.
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I've played around more with my guitars and I'd only change the pickups in the Eclipse.
Crawler sounds interesting, but it isn't what I had in mind really.
Darkanddrew, which pickups have you tried in Eclipses and which didn't really work? How about the Mule? Have you tried that?
If your Eclipse is dark and warm, like you describe it, a Crawler is a no-go. Midrange on midrange, and I mean especially the lower midrange, will strangle the tone. You need a pickup that opens up the guitar, like a Mule, RR, Emerald (has quite some topend), Cold Sweat, Rebel Yell.
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+1
Emerald set would be a great choice