Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: em07189 on November 14, 2014, 12:22:54 PM
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Hi everyone!
I have a schetcer blackjack with a seymour duncan JB, i love the guitar and i like that pickup, but it hasn't that low end tightness, or it seems that dont have enough bass on it.
I want a improvement, not a super tight metal pickup with a lots of bass.
What pickup will add this improvement in the low end, and it will add also some more definition and clarity !!??
the guitar is mahogany set body and neck.
Thanks.
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The Holydiver is often cited as having the same idea as the JB but executing it better. It is warm, organic, not shrill, clear, etc. So that is probably what you should look at there.
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Great pickup! I have an holydiver on a les paul studio and it's great with an amazing clarity
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Thanks for your reply's
Ok, but just to clear my mind, what is the pickup from the bare knuckle humbuckers range that sounds closer to a Gibson burstbucker?, because it's other pickups that i like a lot.
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Hi everyone!
I have a schetcer blackjack with a seymour duncan JB, i love the guitar and i like that pickup, but it hasn't that low end tightness, or it seems that dont have enough bass on it.
I want a improvement, not a super tight metal pickup with a lots of bass.
What pickup will add this improvement in the low end, and it will add also some more definition and clarity !!??
the guitar is mahogany set body and neck.
Thanks.
I don't think the Holy Diver sounds anything like a JB its wound too hot and doesn't have the mid range punch / detail of the JB. I can see why its pitched as modern take of the 80's guitar sound but if you want something that has JB DNA you have too look elsewhere.
I love the JB, I have an original '85 in a Kramer Baretta that is stunning and blows the HD away. If you can find an early one that's wound to 14k or just under.
I'd maybe look at a Rebel Yell before a Holydiver.
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The Holy Diver is more balanced and clearer than the JB. It is also a bit less aggressive and a bit more refined. When I had one, I remember I felt the lead sounds were amazing, but I felt it didn't have the bass presence and tightness I wanted. I also like the JB, but to be fair the JB works better in some guitars than it does in others. I don't think it should be in as many guitars from factory as it is, but matched better with individual guitars.
I ended up with the Nailbomb and even though it is rarely mentioned as a JB replacement over the Holy Diver, I think you should look into this. It is a seriously good pickup and pretty versatile, except that it always has a bit of a raspy edge. It definitely has a tight bottom end.
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The Nailbomb certainly is a good pickup and will probably do the trick.
The Cold Sweat works extremely well in mahogany set-neck guitars, but the output is around the same as the Holy Diver. Possibly tighter in the lows than the HD. It has a ceramic magnet but the clean sound is still very nice.
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Thanks for your reply's
Ok, but just to clear my mind, what is the pickup from the bare knuckle humbuckers range that sounds closer to a Gibson burstbucker?, because it's other pickups that i like a lot.
Do you mean the Alnico II Burstbuckers or the Alnico V one? We're talking Mule / Riff Raff territory here.
Rebel Yell is a great rock pickup that has high mids, tonnes of clarity, and really lively harmonics. There is not much bass to speak of, mostly just tight and clear bottom. (It works exceptionally well with my low mid heavy solid mahogany singlecut guitar.
Nailbomb is clear, with a really raunchy sound and a lot of treble detail. It has a really crazy pick attack and the tone is really hairy and bad mannered. It has a bit bigger bass than the Rebel Yell with slightly more output, but the output difference is noticeable. It does thrash and 90s punk / 90s metal really stinking well.
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the holy diver is bkp's take on the duncan jb, according to Tim Mills himself
it's probably the only non-PAF model that was openly declared as so
tha nailbomb is a completely different sounding pickup
it has some small resemblance with the duncan custom, but it's punchier, bassier and a lot less compressed
it's no near as middy as the holy diver or the jb
never heard anything like the rebel yell from any other brand, although some people compare it to the jb
it might have a somewhat similar midrangy voicing, but a completely different texture
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Rebel Yell Bridge really does that 'chainsaw' sort of a tone, it is incredibly open and huge sounding. Very much the opposite of the usual warm, thick, and woolly character of Seymour Duncan pickups.
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I think the thing with the A-bomb is that there is always that Sepultura tone in there somewhere. If you absolutely hate that tone, stay away from it. If you don't mind that tone and would like mellower variations on it the A-Bomb can generally do that. It always has some element of that Sepultura hairiness to it though, always a hint of buzzsaw, even if faint.
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I think the thing with the A-bomb is that there is always that Sepultura tone in there somewhere. If you absolutely hate that tone, stay away from it. If you don't mind that tone and would like mellower variations on it the A-Bomb can generally do that. It always has some element of that Sepultura hairiness to it though, always a hint of buzzsaw, even if faint.
+1. Good description.
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The closest you will get is the alnico warpig. It has of quality in terms of harmonics but better plus it has the Bigger bass you want but still retains excellent clarity. :evil:
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Here's me last night having fun with friends and a set of Rebel Yells. Doesn't sound much like the JB I have in my SG. Still quite fond of the JB though.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqTNtPNpHRA
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I think the thing with the A-bomb is that there is always that Sepultura tone in there somewhere. If you absolutely hate that tone, stay away from it. If you don't mind that tone and would like mellower variations on it the A-Bomb can generally do that. It always has some element of that Sepultura hairiness to it though, always a hint of buzzsaw, even if faint.
For me the Nailbomb always has a bit of John Petrucci's sound on Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence and Black Clouds and Silver Linings. I think it really does progressive metal very well. His more modern sounds on the last album are more Juggernaut territory.
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the holy diver is bkp's take on the duncan jb, according to Tim Mills himself
it's probably the only non-PAF model that was openly declared as so
tha nailbomb is a completely different sounding pickup
it has some small resemblance with the duncan custom, but it's punchier, bassier and a lot less compressed
it's no near as middy as the holy diver or the jb
never heard anything like the rebel yell from any other brand, although some people compare it to the jb
it might have a somewhat similar midrangy voicing, but a completely different texture
Sorry to disagree, but I think the Nailbomb is not "completely" different. The pickups do share some tonal territory.
Do you mean the Seymour Duncan SH-5? That is nowhere close to the Nailbomb. Where did you get that impression?
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OK, the pickup bustbucker i mention , is the version that comes with the light les paul the traditional model.
One thing that i have notice with the JB in my jvm 401H, is that the pickup has a lot of gain, i have to lower the gain a lot in the amp, even compared with emg's.
I dont mind to buy a more lower gain pickup than the JB.
From the youtube vídeos i liked the agression of the nailbom of the alnico model:
http://youtu.be/X2kvQkpz5sM
But the mic from the recoding can atenuate, the pickup abrasive highs.
Will the pickup sond the same mahogany guitars?
The holydiver and coldsweat, could be the best options, has someone mention here.
what is the most abrasive pickup between the naibomb and coldsweat?
Between coldsweat and holydiver, what is the one that has the best bass response?
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A-Bomb is crunchy and ill tempered but I would not categorize it as an abrasive sounding pickup. The tone is like a Les Paul but more badass. A Les Paul dressed in studded leather with a funky, pointy hairdo. It's got this cool raw thing going on, but it won't do that 'classic LP mojo' quite the same way.
Rebel Yell is closer to a more 80s / traditional R&R tone. It screams rock n roll and it similar to the Burstbucker Pro pickups, but tighter in the lows with more output and a nice harmonic 'sheen'.
Riff Raff is probably much closer to the Burstbucker sort of a thing being a more traditional tone. Also look into Abraxas for a 'warmer' sound and the 'Black Dog' for more of a low mid focus.
BTW, the Rebel Yell Neck is an amazing pickup. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the Rebel Yell neck / A-Bomb bridge combo I have in my LP. Great blues and rock tones all around.
THe A-Bomb has a lot of gain but it will be much clearer than the JB with better string separation. It's more of a rhythm pickup while the Rebel Yell bridge excels at leads and solos.
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The holydiver and coldsweat, could be the best options, has someone mention here.
what is the most abrasive pickup between the naibomb and coldsweat?
Between coldsweat and holydiver, what is the one that has the best bass response?
I have had the NB and CS in the same guitar and the CS is definitely smoother, less abrasive. Although the basic character of the SG emphasized that it still is more abrasive than my CS in the SG now that I have it my Explorer (a much heavier, darker guitar).
Out of the Holy Diver and Cold Sweat I've only heard opinions and recordings re the HD but I think that the CS would have the tighter bass response of the two. The HD has more mids. The CS has a ceramic magnet which makes for tighter lows.
The ceramic version of the Nailbomb might be slightly less abrasive with tighter bass.
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I may be wrong here but the impression I get (after owning several of both) that there is a considerable difference between BK's and Duncans and that comparisons between the two are largely redundant. To my ears BK's have better clarity and a fuller range but Duncans have a more mid range detail and punch. Its 'orses for courses but I really don't see a direct JB equivalent in the BK range.
The JB is most closely associated with the 80's rock tone and after trying a few BK's I ended up going with WCR Murkats which are like the best JB's you have ever heard. It nails the Round and Round / Panama tones brilliantly and has a harmonic laden lead tone that tops the Holydiver to my ears. However, it hates the D tuna on my Kramer Pacer and lacks bass end clarity compared to the Crawler / HD it replaced.
There really isn't one pickup that does everything, you decide what your priorities are and chose accordingly.
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I may be wrong here but the impression I get (after owning several of both) that there is a considerable difference between BK's and Duncans and that comparisons between the two are largely redundant. To my ears BK's have better clarity and a fuller range but Duncans have a more mid range detail and punch. Its 'orses for courses but I really don't see a direct JB equivalent in the BK range.
The JB is most closely associated with the 80's rock tone and after trying a few BK's I ended up going with WCR Murkats which are like the best JB's you have ever heard. It nails the Round and Round / Panama tones brilliantly and has a harmonic laden lead tone that tops the Holydiver to my ears. However, it hates the D tuna on my Kramer Pacer and lacks bass end clarity compared to the Crawler / HD it replaced.
There really isn't one pickup that does everything, you decide what your priorities are and chose accordingly.
I think it's largely this with pickups. The BKP have a more 'open' sound with better clarity and string separation overall.
I find the Duncans to be 'thicker' and more 'woolly' sounding overall. I find Duncans get muddy fast while BKP are tighter and handle gain extremely well.
Through an amp with a very thick and complex tone (Mesa), the BKP severely kick ass. It's no contest whatsoever. With a thinner and brighter amp, a phatter and thicker pickup like a Duncan may be possible.
I replaced my Alnico II Pro neck and Custom Custom bridge in a single cut mahogany guitar with a Rebel Yell bridge and a VHII neck. With the old pickup setup, I could turn the gain down a lot and get a really musical and smooth breakup because of the mid focus and rounded highs. Switching to the BKP, I found that I had to turn the gain higher to get a phat tone that was pleasing to my ears. Now, I discovered that by turning down the volume knob on the guitar, a similar effect can be achieved to the lower gain settings. Likewise, turning down the gain and re-eqing the amp can also yield pleasing results. At any rate, no tools are perfect for the job but generally, you'll find a way to get the tones you want.
In the end, I can only say that BKP are 95 - 100% best for my own needs as a player. I prefer the tightness, clarity, and expressiveness that they contribute to my playing.
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I think it's largely this with pickups. The BKP have a more 'open' sound with better clarity and string separation overall.
I find the Duncans to be 'thicker' and more 'woolly' sounding overall. I find Duncans get muddy fast while BKP are tighter and handle gain extremely well.
Through an amp with a very thick and complex tone (Mesa), the BKP severely kick ass. It's no contest whatsoever. With a thinner and brighter amp, a phatter and thicker pickup like a Duncan may be possible.
I replaced my Alnico II Pro neck and Custom Custom bridge in a single cut mahogany guitar with a Rebel Yell bridge and a VHII neck. With the old pickup setup, I could turn the gain down a lot and get a really musical and smooth breakup because of the mid focus and rounded highs. Switching to the BKP, I found that I had to turn the gain higher to get a phat tone that was pleasing to my ears. Now, I discovered that by turning down the volume knob on the guitar, a similar effect can be achieved to the lower gain settings. Likewise, turning down the gain and re-eqing the amp can also yield pleasing results. At any rate, no tools are perfect for the job but generally, you'll find a way to get the tones you want.
In the end, I can only say that BKP are 95 - 100% best for my own needs as a player. I prefer the tightness, clarity, and expressiveness that they contribute to my playing.
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Absolutely agree - Trying a host of BK's helped me narrow down exactly what I wanted from a PU (as apposed to 'I want to sound like 'X' player'). I had a Custom Custom in an '80's Kramer for years before trying a Riff Raff / Holydiver / Crawler. It now has the original CC back in it because I missed the thick mid range and rounded lead tone - I just didn't know at the time!
I can appreciate the clarity of BK's but love the way Duncan style pickups sit in the mix at any gain level - hence the WCR Murkat.
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Conventional wisdom as well as Tim himself says the holy diver is BKP's take on Duncan JB but I also heard Steve Stevens say he feels the rebel yell sound like 'An old Duncan JB'. I trust Steve Stevens he has crazy talent and knows his stuff when it comes to gear so I trust his judgement too.
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Absolutely agree - Trying a host of BK's helped me narrow down exactly what I wanted from a PU (as apposed to 'I want to sound like 'X' player').
See, this is interesting. I was testing some amps for a friend of mine and it amazed me how different we both sounded playing through the same setup with the same guitar. As a matter of fact, I have heard this time and time again: the biggest determining factor for tone is the person playing the guitar. I find that I will 'find a way' to get the sound I want while playing, regardless of what I am playing through. Some amps / guitars / pickups render it better than others but ultimately, cultivating my sound has been really a product of hours spent in the practice room.
I also agree, the Custom Custom bridge has such a massively thick and rich lead tone. The BKP I've tried that comes the closest is the Juggernaut Bridge, both for the thickness and rounded highs, but it's an entirely different beast. The problem with the Custom Custom (for me) is the soggy low end and the excessively thick midrange. It really gets in the way while trying to play rhythm. That being said, it would work exceptionally well in a more 'clear' sounding guitar. The solid lump of mahogany axe just needed some top end to balance the sound!
Conventional wisdom as well as Tim himself says the holy diver is BKP's take on Duncan JB but I also heard Steve Stevens say he feels the rebel yell sound like 'An old Duncan JB'. I trust Steve Stevens in has crazy talent and knows his stuff when it comes to gear so I trust his judgement too.
I would imagine that Seymour Duncan's build process was vastly different when he was first starting out than it is now. It is possible that the tone of his pickups could have changed fairly drastically in the last 30+ years.
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There are at least 2 versions of the SD JB. The original ( which I have, in double cream), was 14.74k, with a slight offset between the coils. The description on the SD site today say that it is 16.4k, and the sound is very different. The original is closest to the Rebel Yell, the Holydiver is more like the newer one.
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There are at least 2 versions of the SD JB. The original ( which I have, in double cream), was 14.74k, with a slight offset between the coils. The description on the SD site today say that it is 16.4k, and the sound is very different. The original is closest to the Rebel Yell, the Holydiver is more like the newer one.
There are two versions of the JB - This was confirmed during Jay Kolanda of NTL guitars who is a real knowledgeable pickup guy. He's pretty dismissive of the newer JB's and prefers the older ones in the 13.7< 14.5 k range. Pickups he mentioned that were in the same tonal ball park were (in his words):
rebel yell, with a possible mag swap to A2...
Custom Custom is a good one too, when you find a good one (like finding a good 59’).
Gibson 498T if you can bleed out the parafin out of it (way too soaked)
He also told me about a Hamer he refurbed which put in a Rebel yell in but moved the bridge PU approx 1/4 inch further away from the Bridge. He said "it was just far enough away from the floyd bridge to be not so “stingy”. dam, spot on. god like thick tones.
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Ok, i'm not fan of this music style video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRiqoiy1-Ok
But this vídeo make me consider again buying the holydiver.
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Heh. With a lot of these super compressed uber high gain tones, you often hear the amp much more than the pickup. I can hear the trademark BKP features such as the added harmonic content, the more defined articulation, and the more complex tone but in that clip, it's a subtle difference at most. It's also obvious to me that this guitarist hasn't yet figured out what to do with the added tonal nuances that BKP inevitably contribute to one's playing.
I personally find that vanilla playing often works better with vanilla gear because this equipment hides the fact that what the player is doing is really quite uninteresting. That is to say, the blackouts actually sound better for what he is doing because they don't draw attention to the boring playing. Like, what he is playing is 'correct' but it is just unimaginative. (Let's use the exact same pick attack for every note and chord that is played) For me, the biggest joy with BKP is the infinite number of colours and articulations that are available. After I got my first set, I spent 3 years trying to gain control of my setup and it is finally starting to show some results.
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I've tried the HD and the RY.
there are a few options from other brands that accomplish what the OP is asking, for but I don't want to disrespect Tim's stomping ground. As far as A BKP model, it'd be the Rebel Yell. In my opinion, it's a hand-down with no 2nd guesses.
The HD might (and I do mean might) be closer to the late 70s version.
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There are at least 2 versions of the SD JB. The original ( which I have, in double cream), was 14.74k, with a slight offset between the coils. The description on the SD site today say that it is 16.4k, and the sound is very different. The original is closest to the Rebel Yell, the Holydiver is more like the newer one.
There are two versions of the JB - This was confirmed during Jay Kolanda of NTL guitars who is a real knowledgeable pickup guy. He's pretty dismissive of the newer JB's and prefers the older ones in the 13.7< 14.5 k range. Pickups he mentioned that were in the same tonal ball park were (in his words):
rebel yell, with a possible mag swap to A2...
Custom Custom is a good one too, when you find a good one (like finding a good 59’).
Gibson 498T if you can bleed out the parafin out of it (way too soaked)
He also told me about a Hamer he refurbed which put in a Rebel yell in but moved the bridge PU approx 1/4 inch further away from the Bridge. He said "it was just far enough away from the floyd bridge to be not so “stingy”. dam, spot on. god like thick tones.
A lot of people claim the old ones "sound better", but I had the 30th anniversary one and wow, that was boomy and undefined on the low end. Great solo sounds though.