Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Jackalicious on January 05, 2015, 03:54:25 AM
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Hello all,
This is my first post here but bear with me. I have a 2004 Givson Les Paul Studio that I'm modifying. It's solid black with chrome hardware & the main thing is that I'm replacing everything that's chrome with black or black chrome. It's looking sweet but I swapped the chrome covers out on the stock pickups with some black ones & I got to thinking I should upgrade them like I did the tuners & the bridge. Here's the catch, I play worship music at my church, mostly clean with occasional light overdrive. But I write metalcore/djentish music at home so I'm stuck on what pickups to get.
I'm split up between the cold sweat & the juggernauts. No doubt about it the juggernauts take it with the metal style but I don't think the cold sweats are far off. My problem is that I like the clean sound of the cold sweat more, specifically in the neck position. I guess what I need is any suggestions or opinions on these pickups in a LP studio. I've thought about getting a neck cold sweat & a bridge juggernaut but I'm wondering what the center position will sound like. Any suggestions?
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Oh, you poor POOR soul. You need two guitars, but there may be another, simpler solution.
I say Mule / Riffraff and a boost pedal for the heavy stuff. If you have a super aggressive / modern sounding amp for the heavy stuff, this should get you right in the ballpark.
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Hi and welcome mate!
I canīt say much about the pickup choice, as this is a bit of a tough one, but I am fairly certain that the CS neck should work well with the Jugg bridge.
In terms of the middle it is a lot about what you want it to be. Even the Jugg has suprisingly good cleans, and there are several possible wiring tricks and combos that can help you shape the sound. Things like splits and series / parallel switches can do a lot for versatility and middle position shaping.
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Ok guys thanks for the input. I gave the the mule & riff raff a listen & I can't bring myself to pick them. The mule reminds me of Lenard skynard & the riff raff reminds me of ratt. I kinda like the sounds but it's not the direction I'm going for & for me to lay down $350 I have to be certain.
I've listened to the sound samples over & over again with some good headphones & I think I'm going to go with the juggernauts. It's tough for me to decide. Though I like the CS cleans on the neck more than the juggernauts, I don't want to sacrifice the darker deeper sounds of the juggs for it since I like their clean sound as well. Unfortunately I have no idea about splits & parallels because I'm a noob at that stuff. I taught myself guitar without lessons or any help so I didn't try to learn the technical side of guitar anatomy. I just knew I needed strings & speakers, haha.
With that said, to continue the theme of my all black LP, I'm looking to get a juggernaut set with black no holes covers. I am curious, is it possible to get the bulb etch on a black no holes cover? I'm real weary of using someone's logo or something of that sort BUT the bulb etch looks pretty sweet.
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You could get a juggernaut set with black covers and black hex bolts. That would look pretty good and give you some adjustment.
I can also tell you that the Cold Sweat set should sound pretty great in a Les Paul. If you are worried that the bridge doesn't have enough beef tonally the CS neck works well with the Miracle Man bridge.
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From the sounds of things, the 'lightly overdriven' sound is a very distant second priority. The Series / Parallel wiring option would probably be your best bet to 'downshift' the pickups for lighter music. Or, just getting a different guitar like a Strat...
Juggernauts in a Les Paul should be ::interesting:: Littleredguitar had a good result with a Juggernaut Bridge in a Les Paul but my juggerset I have in my Superstrat is so incredibly aggressive that I can't imagine how bassy and overbearing the neck pickup would sound in a Les Paul.
My Les Paul currently has an Alnico Nailbomb in the bridge with a Rebel Yell in the neck. I don't know that this combination would get as aggressive as you would like. The A-Bomb is a gnarly pickup but it's got this thrash vibe going on.
If you get a juggernaut bridge, definitely consider something different for the neck so the tone balances out. Muddy neck pickups suck and the Juggerneck sounds thick and rich in a very bright guitar already. Personally, for ultra heavy styles, I'd choose an Aftermath for a Les Paul, mostly to keep the bottom clear and tight. Neck would be a more difficult choice, because one needs tight lows but also enough output to get that shred feel. From what folks here are saying, CS neck is the go to for a Shred Style LP and a proper tonal balance between pickups is hugely beneficial in my mind. Be sure to upgrade the pots and caps, since you'll want as much top end as you can get from that Juggerbridge.
In my case, I opted to let my Les Paul be a Les Paul and get a guitar outfitted specifically for metal. I'm glad I did, since the tonal contributions and tighter strings on a Super Strat are much more suited to aggressive music. The LP still sounds awesome, but I use it for blues and rock mostly.
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I have an Aftermath in a Gibson Gothic Studio LP. It screams, but I wouldn't say mid rock or clean tones is the strength there. The Juggernauts somehow have an awesome clean tone that goes along with the modern hi gain attack. I can;t imagine not loving that set in any guitar at this point, though it is a specific hollow mids sound. I may try a different Bk just to mix it up, but Juggs are unbelievable!(never tried a CS)
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It could be the case that the Rebel Yell set is the best option. I would take a closer listen to it.
Neck pickup is quite similar to the Cold Sweat.
Bridge is tight and bright, but not a huge amount of bass. If your LP is fairly dark and bassy it will be a godsend. If it is one of those lightweight ones and pretty bright though give it a miss in favour of something with more beef like an A-bomb.
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First and foremost, what does your guitar sound like acoustically? Also what is your rig? (Amp cab speakers etc.) important to remember tone is subjective. Also, BKP are very choosey in the guitars you put them in. Answer what you can and We will try our best to give you advice and guide you in the right direction. :evil:
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It could be the case that the Rebel Yell set is the best option. I would take a closer listen to it.
Neck pickup is quite similar to the Cold Sweat.
Bridge is tight and bright, but not a huge amount of bass. If your LP is fairly dark and bassy it will be a godsend. If it is one of those lightweight ones and pretty bright though give it a miss in favour of something with more beef like an A-bomb.
Agreed. Studios can be very dark and bassy. I can attest to how good the Rebel Yell sounds in a dark and bassy guitar!
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Sorry for the late response. This is actually embarrassing but I have no cabinet or even a head. See, after playing guitar for 6 months I joined a band playing bass because a friend needed a bass player. So I spent what money I had at the time (I was 16) on a bass, then a 450 watt bass head & a 2x12 & a 15. Then I bought another 15, then a 4x10 & a power amp to push all that at once. (I know, ridiculous & in called for. Lol). Then I joined another band called 1st Dead Witness & we were pretty big locally & we ended up playing shows all over Texas. Cutting the random story short, I spent all my money on bass & related stuff. I just got lucky & bought my gibson new in 04. Now I'm married with kids as well so it's hard for me to convince my wife to let me buy that stuff now a days.
But, for church I plug my guitar through my pedalboard (walrus voyager overdrive, ernieball vp-Jr. with T1M mod, boss feedbacker/booster, boss DD-5, mxr carbon copy, micro POG, Bluesky reverb & a boss rc-3 looper) & then into a boss me-25 which can give me a crazy amount of tones. With the me-25 having an amp simulator I run directly into the board. I also have a boss metalcore & phase shifter that are on the board but I plan to sell them to help fund my pickups. So yeah, what do think now? Lol. I have a little peavy practice amp that came with my first guitar my dad bought me (peavey raptor plus)
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1. What does your wife think about you buying expensive pickups??
2. If you are going into a solid state amp or practice amp then Rebel Yells can be underwhelming. I would go with a fatter sounding pickup like a Juggernaut
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1. She thinks it's stupid, lol. All those pedals costed like $1500 all together but I sold some of those old bass amps & some other stuff & my music leader at church pulled together a love offering from the church that brought in like $400 so that helped.
I have a 1972 Buick riviera I plan to sell & use the money to build a home recording studio in my back yard. I'll probably buy an can then. My old guitarists from the band had a JSX with a random can & the other had a Madison with the red light on a random can. Anyone recommend those?
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The JSX can be a monster if set up right.
See this video on the JSX and the changes he made with tubes etc to get it sounding like that. Stock it can be a bit honky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohEZTGjEVss
Like most of the big Peaveys it likes four V30s best. For example the Orange PPC412 cab
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1. She thinks it's stupid, lol. All those pedals costed like $1500 all together but I sold some of those old bass amps & some other stuff & my music leader at church pulled together a love offering from the church that brought in like $400 so that helped.
I have a 1972 Buick riviera I plan to sell & use the money to build a home recording studio in my back yard. I'll probably buy an can then. My old guitarists from the band had a JSX with a random can & the other had a Madison with the red light on a random can. Anyone recommend those?
UURGGHHH you bought $1,500 worth of pedals? :sad: I've been playing guitar 15 years and just ordered my first pedal from Protone. We'll see how that goes. =-/
A good tube amp goes a long way but it can also expose very sloppy playing which sucks. In my honest opinion, you'd gain a lot more from taking the $400 offering, selling the pedals, and acquiring a really good / small format head and an excellent 1 x 12. The pickups are helpful but stock Gibson pickups do not suck and honestly, the best bang for your buck will be to upgrade in the amp department at this point. If you require more brightness / aggression from the stock pickups, you can upgrade the pots and caps for relatively cheap and use the 50s style wiring? Also, adjusting pickup height and the pole pieces will help.
How much can one get the EVH 5150 50watt for used? (It comes as a combo as well, which could be advantageous in your situation) Also, if you got an amp head, the Mesa Boogie RA 27" 1 x 12 extension cab is KILLER. You should be able to track one down used in the US of A. As for good low volume tones, get a Shure SM57 and practice micing the cab until you find the sweet spot. Use that live too and be rest assured that mic placement is really "THE" secret sauce for good recorded or mic'd tones.
My top interest / recommendation for a small format head would be the Mesa Mark V 25 but I think that would be well over budget. I also know of another mini head that is making a debut at NAMM but I'm not going to say much about it until it is officially released. Let's just say that I was involved in the product testing and it's really killer and very versatile.
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Haha, yeah but I hit these expensive pedals because I play a lot of ambient guitar for the church service like organ sounding swells & stuff. The bluesky reverb pedal is $300 & produces the sickest reverb I've ever heard & the micro POG is $200 which adds the octave up & octave down to your dry signal which gives the organ effect. So those 2 alone was 1/3 the cost.
It hate the fact that I've been playing for roughly 12 years & I don't know anything about amps & cabs. My friend who got me into guitar was just dead set on Gibson Les Paul's, Marshall 5150's. He was a great guitarist so I believed that's what we have to have.
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Gibson Les Pauls are an iconic rock tone. There's a legacy there and there's a lot of history with that particular guitar design. Now, I have more than one guitar because each guitar is a tool for a different purpose. For heavy music, I use my superstrat which is loaded with Juggernauts. My other two instruments I use for rock and lighter music kind of in the vein like what you do but I'm not into that 'contemporary' processed sort of a sound. I rely on my fingers to do the talking and I take a much more hands on approach to my guitar playing.
RE: Gear. To be completely honest, what a guitarist 'needs' to have is whatever works. Whatever allows you to communicate the music you want is what you should play (within reason) but honestly, the magic happens with the fingers. I've heard it over and over, same rig and eq, but different guitarist, and all of them generate surprisingly different tones. It's honestly shocking.
The EVH 5150 50watt is great for metal which is why I figure you'll get on well with it. But it sounds like you need something that can excel at clean tones for your army of pedals that you simply must use. Good luck.
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Don't get me wrong, I know it's in the fingers. SRV is probably my all time favorite even with my fascination with metal. I prefer just sitting there with my Les Paul playing it acoustic in my house with no amp. The pedal board is just great for creating an atmosphere in the church setting but I don't write music for it but I want a good clean for it since it's something I do every week. The metal stuff is just personal music I write & will be recording hopefully.
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Ok, I just saw this:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68976
$750 USD pp'd shipped for a Mesa Boogie Mini Recto.
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Ok, I just saw this:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=68976
$750 USD pp'd shipped for a Mesa Boogie Mini Recto.
The mini recto is awesome but can only do a few tones. Just save for the Mark V 25 or EVH 5150III 50 watt. They mark V is the most versatile and has a better clean and a spring reverb. The EVH and Mark V Have the distorted tones. It all comes down to taste :evil:
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I have a hobby band for fun and we play an older style of metal (Power metal / 90s hardcore / neoclassical). The rhythm guitarist plays a Mark V and I play a recto. We decided to trade today, for rehearsal / live purposes, and it was really quite perfect. The Mark V is a killer amp, especially for the feel and response, but it just doesn't have that recto growl. But, the two together in the same band = sonic mayhem!!!
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I have a hobby band for fun and we play an older style of metal (Power metal / 90s hardcore / neoclassical). The rhythm guitarist plays a Mark V and I play a recto. We decided to trade today, for rehearsal / live purposes, and it was really quite perfect. The Mark V is a killer amp, especially for the feel and response, but it just doesn't have that recto growl. But, the two together in the same band = sonic mayhem!!!
You can dial that growl on the Mark V. Under the Mark IV voicing on the amp is where I heard the growl dialed in. :evil:
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It just doesn't have that really gritty tone of the Recto though, and I suppose that is a good thing.
As a lead player, it's nice to be heard and to have that immense and thick solo tone for the big moments! It was SUPER fun to play an the Mark V today!!!
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It just doesn't have that really gritty tone of the Recto though, and I suppose that is a good thing.
As a lead player, it's nice to be heard and to have that immense and thick solo tone for the big moments! It was SUPER fun to play an the Mark V today!!!
Glad you enjoyed it. It's an amazing amp. I may sell my EVH 5150 III 50 watt to buy a Mark V...hmm
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I'm not too concerned about amps, when I sell this car & build a studio I plan to buy the eleven rack/protools 11 bundle which looks like it successfully covers several amps.
As far as the pickups, I am going with the juggernauts, if they don't work out on the LP I'll swap them out into my ESP LTD m100fm. I'm sure that would sound great anyway I just hate messing with the Floyd Rose.
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I'd seriously reconsider what you put in the neck of that guitar. My Les Paul has an A-Bomb bridge and a Rebel Yell neck, just to keep things tight and non-muddy. The Juggerneck is a really phat sounding neck pickup so you may get a nasty result there. I find that with the cheaper LPs, the bridge pickup often sounds thin by comparison so you may be able to get away with the juggerbridge. I love the juggerset in my Superstrat, it's super fun to play!
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Well I'm freaked out right now. I don't have the money yet to buy the pickups. I switched out the stock humbucker covers from chrome to black. I also changed the selector switch with an Epiphone switch so I could have a solid black switch. Strung it up & I get no sound at all. I start pushing & wiggling the selector switch & I get some buzzing & minor popping but I can't hear the strings. I'm not sure if it's bad soldering on the selector switch or if I ruined the pickups some how. I'm so upset now that I can't play my $1200 guitar that has over $200 worth of modifications.
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You put an Epiphone selector switch in it?
The selector switch is always the worst part of any Epiphone!! I'd ditch that
I'd say it's wired up wrong somehow. Also do you have any shielding in there? Might be a short
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Yeah. I only put the epi switch because it was completely black. The Gibson switch was chrome with the black tip. That's what started this whole thing, me blacking out the gibson. I already switched the vintage style tulip tuners with some black locking grovers & put black strap locks & pegs. I changed the input jack plate, tail piece & studs, & I'm putting a black roller style bridge on too. That's why I was swapping the pickup covers.
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You'd be better off getting a quality switch. Gotoh might make a black one. The mechanism in the Epi switches is cheap plastic junk and they often break within months of purchase
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I'll look into that. I did notice the Epi switch felt loose & cheaply made. I don't think it could handle the jimi hendrix & Tom morello style rapid switching lol. I'm starting to regret this entire project now that I'm having troubles. I pray to God it's not the pickups. I'm about to re solder the ground wire on the switch & see if that fixes it.
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This is the Gotoh one, as used on ESPs etc.
http://luthierssupplies.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=141_63_306_744&products_id=1944
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I'll keep that in mind. Pretty cheap on eBay. I fixed the sound though. Upon closer inspection, the ground (black) wire connects on the opposite side of the red, white, & green wires on the Gibson switch. Problem is that the epi switch puts the green wire on that side & the ground goes between the red & white wires. When I swapped switches I just put the wires back how they looked on the Gibson. I swapped the green & black wires & the beautiful sound came out of my little practice amp. Silly mistake, lol.
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Good to see that you got it working! You are probably going to want to change that switch eventually though. The problem is in the clips that form the contacts either side of that plastic thing in the switch. They bend and the plastic block wears and eventually something fails. In my case I ended up with a choice of both pickups or the bridge pickup. No neck pickup by itself
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I am starting to worry about the juggs in my Les Paul. After messing with the stock pickups & getting them back in I feel like the sound is fine & it isn't worth risking if the juggs make it too muddy. I'm thinking to get that brutal metal sound I'll just get the juggs for my ESP & tune it to drop b. It's just such a hassle to deal with the Floyd Rose system. I can't get that thing to stay in tune to save my life. I know if I could though, it would be a beast with those pickups in it.
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It's hard to go wrong with a Rebel Yell neck and A-Bomb bridge combo in a Les Paul.
If you are worried about the Juggs maybe think about that. Would work out the same price or slightly less.
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Jackalicious, try listening to your Les Paul unplugged and determine the sort of tone it has. That will help you figure out what sort of pickup combo to use in it provided you wish to upgrade. I had a great result with an Rebel Yell neck and an A-Bomb bridge.
The Juggerbridge has a pretty good chance of working although it will be dark. The juggerneck is what I'd be concerned about.
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I don't doubt that. Like I said, I'll put the juggernaut set into my ESP & that will work out great once I can nail the stupid Floyd Rose. May just get it tuned & keep the whammy bar off so it will stay tuned. As for my Les Paul, I think youre right. Now I hope I can get those 2 pickups with black covers with no holes to complete the look of the Gibson.
Also, I want to thank you guys for all of your help & opinions. For me to have just joined this forum & knowing nothing about BKP until recently, the response has been great. Very helpful members here & I'm not just saying that to fish for discounts lol. If not for this I would have just bought a jugg set & threw them into my LP & could have ended up with a bad sound since the majority of my playing is in the neck position on the LP.
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On the Les Paul you might want to consider getting short legs for the neck and long legs for the bridge if not a matched set. I wish I did that with my Cold Sweat neck, but I've got long legs all around and you loose a bit of the downward adjustment in the neck socket. Also the neck pickup will be easier to fit to other guitars. With Gibsons I would tend to still recommend long legs for the bridge, especially as BKPs tend to like being closer to the strings