Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: leolyonsofficial on January 23, 2015, 01:45:16 PM
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I'm looking to replace the stock paf pickups.
I want a John Sykes, Neal schon, Gary Moore, randy Rhodes, def lep 80s style sound!
Thanx :grin:
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Sounds like Cold Sweats. The question is: is your LP a bright or a dark one, or good balanced?
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Just worried the sweats wil be too shrill and won't handle cleans if required!
Its the slide it in/1987 tone I'm looking for.
Nice chorused cleans will be a bonus!
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Cold Sweats = John Sykes-tone. But ok, Mules will deliver most of the tones, if you have a good amp and a booster.
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Clean boost, mid boost or treble boost?
I have a German 6L6 amp which is pretty close to boogie sounding
Thanx
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the cold sweat cleans up pretty nicely
a rebel yell or holy diver should be just as fine
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I have a Cold Sweat set and it does pretty nice cleans, even with the volume on full. Roll it back a little if you need to. The neck pickup has especially nice cleans.
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Clean boost, mid boost or treble boost?
I have a German 6L6 amp which is pretty close to boogie sounding
Thanx
I would use a midboost or something like a tubescreamer.
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Is the mule an all rounder to the les Paul like the Irish tours are to the strat?
After all I'm sure Sykes recorded with a custom les Paul aka full mahogany with no maple cap.
So a mule with a mid boost pedal (ts) into a boogie style amp will get me there?
Or do I specifically need cold sweats?
I'd like something that can also pull off the modern AOR sound like TOTO, BOSTON etc
Maybe I'm looking for an all rounder?! Confused now :rolleyes:
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Sykes used to use Dirty Fingers, at least in Tygers of Pan-Tang and Thin Lizzy.
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The Mule is certainly an allrounder, yet a classic 59PAF-style pickup, so with a low output, and therefore dynamic, clear and refined, but the Mule won't hit your input like say a Diver. What kind of amp you have (Framus, Engl, H&K?).
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Palmer FAT 50
An all rounder of an amp with a boogie type tone, eminence governor speaker. Focused on classic rock.
http://www.palmer-germany.com/mi/en/Products/FAT-Series/FAT-50-Tube-Guitar-Combo-50-W-PFAT50.htm
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Is the mule an all rounder to the les Paul like the Irish tours are to the strat?
After all I'm sure Sykes recorded with a custom les Paul aka full mahogany with no maple cap.
So a mule with a mid boost pedal (ts) into a boogie style amp will get me there?
Or do I specifically need cold sweats?
I'd like something that can also pull off the modern AOR sound like TOTO, BOSTON etc
Maybe I'm looking for an all rounder?! Confused now :rolleyes:
wrong info about his les paul
he had a post-75 norlin era les paul custom, which actually means 3 piece maple top, pancake mahogany body and a 3 piece maple neck with ebony boards
so it's a naturally middy and spanky sound, and not some darkish smooth voiced guitar
I don't think the cold sweat sounds like him, despite of the name
it has a much sharper, more articulate and a lot less compressed sound
for the Sykes classic tones, I'd get a miracle man or ceramic nailbomb
perhaps a painkiller
but a rebel yell or holy diver should deliver more versatility and better cleans
I don't think you're looking for vintage low output models
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If it's a bright LP like Eric states, you want something hotter and a little darker in the bridge, like a Diver or even a Crawler.
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So what would be the ideal neck bridge combo?
Would this tackle a modern aor sound also or am I asking too much?!
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I throw in a Holy Diver-set or a Holy Diver/VHII-neck.
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Does the holy diver give that tight bass on the palm mutes? What image does the vh neck embody?
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Ceramic (e.g., Cold Sweat) will give tighter bass on palm mutes.
See this comparison of three BKPs with ceramic magnets. I don't think the style is really what you are wanting to play (it certainly isn't what I want to play) but it demonstrates the tightness of the CS relative to two of the tightest pups in the range, the Aftermath and the C-Bomb. Of the three the CS is the one most likely to suit your needs elsewhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILpDPYKI0Tc
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Will these cut through keyboards?
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The best way to 'cut through keyboards' is to break the player's left hand.
I'm trying to remedy the problem of needlessly busy keyboard playing but there are a whole lot more busy keyboardists than there is of me.
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Will these cut through keyboards?
the rebel yell set was designed to cut through keyboards
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Lol yeah cut the left hand and apply a 100Hz cut.
Listening to the clips, the mules seem to do anything!
Cold sweats sound like active emgs or was that the miracle man?
They all sound very similar to me!
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It's Miracle Mans that sound more like EMG replacements, although I wouldn't say that they sound just like EMGs
You might find that the sample clips sound similar after a while. I often find it easier to make sense out of clips people post on youtube of them playing, those seem to give me a better idea of the range of the pickups
Rebel Yell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVSuYtrqzlg
Cold Sweat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff13Gj-P3FM
RY has more high mids.
CS has more bass.
Otherwise they are basically in the same ballpark
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CS has more bass, but generally speaking CS (bridge) would be brighter than CBomb?
in those 2 YT clips I prefer CS way better.
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CS is cleaner, more crispy sounding than C-Bomb. C-Bomb is aysmmetrically wound and has a lot of treble detail or 'hair', not as much maybe as the A-Bomb, but it's there. The CS is symmetrically wound and does not have that. There's definitely plenty of high end in the CS if that's what you want. I think the same is true of the RY.
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I wonder if the cold sweat will deliver the still of the night guitar sound?
However I don't like it when guitars sound too bassy or booming or conflict with keys!
I liked the cold sweat on the clips, the rebel yell sounded a bit lost in the mix.
Someone said the yell was less forgiving and which has longer sustain?
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I wonder if the cold sweat will deliver the still of the night guitar sound?
It will.
Someone said the yell was less forgiving and which has longer sustain?
Actual sustain should be equal provided that none of the pickups are too close to the strings. Apparent sustain may be longer with the pickup that has more mids.
Cheers Stephan
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Ah thanks. I'm confused now if I should get a calibrated set or two different ones?
Covered or uncovered? Too many options!
What's the most popular neck/bridge combo?
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The Cold Sweat neck is very highly regarded, being one of BKP's most popular pickups. A calibrated set would be nice. There are some other necks that have been used with it to good effect, such as the Holy Diver neck (from memory). Cold Sweat bridge is generally used with the CS neck though from what I have seen.
The CS bridge will not be too bassy. In some applications the RY does not have enough bass. The CS is not like a Miracle Man or Warpig with respect to bottom end, and doesn't have as much as a Nailbomb for example.
Covered or uncovered is up to you. I don't think it makes a lot of difference. If you think you might move them between guitars maybe go for uncovered black or zebra. Personally I like covered and I have a strong preference for chrome hardware so in all cases but one (I ordered black with black bolts for a guitar I had with gold hardware) I have ordered chrome covered. I find that the pickups sit more snugly in the pickup rings with covers on and don't tend to tilt as you adjust the height
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But how does the cold sweat deal with a keys player?
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But how does the cold sweat deal with a keys player?
I think the majority of problems with cutting through the mix are amps or amps that are not dialed in correct.
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Yeah you would be better off getting the pickups with the basic tone you like and then using a graphic EQ (such as an MXR 10-band) to deal with issues like that.
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But how does the cold sweat deal with a keys player?
It think the majority of problems with cutting through the mix are amps or amps that are not dialed in correct.
Yes, the super scooped tones combined with massive orchestration problems. The rules of acoustics still apply to amplified instruments, no mater who may say otherwise.
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But how does the cold sweat deal with a keys player?
I think the majority of problems with cutting through the mix are amps or amps that are not dialed in correct.
Not to forget keyboard players who simply play too much within a band context :)
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Hmm I guess I'm torn between cold sweats, rebel yells or mules!
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But how does the cold sweat deal with a keys player?
I think the majority of problems with cutting through the mix are amps or amps that are not dialed in correct.
Not to forget keyboard players who simply play too much within a band context :)
Plus some drummers with too much talent that they must expose, like the one in my band, who's the former drummer of Epica (that tells a lot!).
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But how does the cold sweat deal with a keys player?
I think the majority of problems with cutting through the mix are amps or amps that are not dialed in correct.
Not to forget keyboard players who simply play too much within a band context :)
Plus some drummers with to much talent that they must expose, like the one in my band, who's the former drummer of Epica (that tells a lot!).
Yes, we need more Keyboard players like John Lord, Jordan Rudess (who goes overboard sometimes but has the "wait, is this guitar or keyboard" thing down if he wants to), and Neal Morse. Or the guy from HIM actually. He played so much in the highend that the guitars could go in under that, followed by cymbals and then vocals.
I am inclined to say RY cause I just love them and they are just the thing that comes upfront without being too in your face. I think it is that it has the upper mids that make it cut. Those ones beyond the vocal range and under the cut of a proper keyboard player.
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RY will definitely provide Randy Rhoads, but I'm not sure about the others mentioned in the original post.
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CS is cleaner, more crispy sounding than C-Bomb. C-Bomb is aysmmetrically wound and has a lot of treble detail or 'hair', not as much maybe as the A-Bomb, but it's there. The CS is symmetrically wound and does not have that. There's definitely plenty of high end in the CS if that's what you want. I think the same is true of the RY.
thanks! Which one CS or Cbomb is more metal/modern metal oriented?
And how does CS bridge perform in your SG? Is it a good match?
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The SG does work well in my SG Standard.
I had an A-Bomb in my SG and didn't like it ... a C-Bomb would have been a better choice. Generally for an SG a more scooped pickup works best because of the mids focus. That said, if you get a pickup with enough output that seems to override that problem. My SG Special is fine with the A-Pig in it. My Explorer was horrible with the A-Pig, really dark. There are a lot of things to consider with choosing pickups, especially BKPs as they are very 'open' and this makes them more sensitive to the acoustics of the instrument you place them in.
With these '90s Les Pauls it seems to be the case that they can suffer from 'boomy neck, thin bridge' syndrome like you get with SGs (in that case mainly because the pickups are relatively close to one another) due to weight relief and can do with a bit of extra beef in the bridge slot. I fitted an Emerald set to an early '90s LP Studio and it seems to be a little lacking in output at the bridge. The CS or C-Bomb would be unlikely to have that issue as they have a good bottom end thump to them.
It's hard to say which pickup is more 'metal' ... I think the CS can probably do a broader range of styles than the C-Bomb. It can cover anything from old Judas Priest and Thin Lizzy through to Metallica and Pantera. The C-Bomb does a good job of stuff like Slayer, Sepultura, Possessed, and Machine Head, and can generally do '90s styles very well. The Cold Sweat is more '80s.
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the boomy neck / thin bridge thing is awful. A-bomb bridge, RY neck solved it for me!!
FWIW, A-bomb in a Les Paul is brighter and tighter in the lows with more mids than a Juggerbridge in a super strat, an instrument that is brighter and thinner acoustically.
IMO, you can get away with a fairly beefy bridge pickup in a LP provided you balance it with a neck pickup that will work with the guitars.
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CS is cleaner, more crispy sounding than C-Bomb. C-Bomb is aysmmetrically wound and has a lot of treble detail or 'hair', not as much maybe as the A-Bomb, but it's there. The CS is symmetrically wound and does not have that. There's definitely plenty of high end in the CS if that's what you want. I think the same is true of the RY.
the CS bridge is asymmetrical
I think it's pretty much an underwound c-bomb
had those 3 pups in my '73 lp custom and I agree with your tone impressions
the alnico bomb seemed a little more "wild" under gain than the other two, but still had slightly better cleans and versatility
the c-bomb was actually the most balanced sounding, despite of the higher output and compression
I never thought I would like it, but it's one of the best BKP's I've tried
I really like the cold sweat, but it's a more specific and unique sort of tone, while the nailbombs have a more generic sound, in my opinion
CS has more bass, but generally speaking CS (bridge) would be brighter than CBomb?
in those 2 YT clips I prefer CS way better.
yes, it is definitely brighter
similar amount of bass, but less body in the low and center mids