Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: fdesalvo on March 20, 2015, 11:04:58 PM

Title: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 20, 2015, 11:04:58 PM
Ha!

I'm a HSS Superstratman at heart, but have the option to build a HH mahogany bolt-on.  Here's my beef with neck humbuckers:

1.  I hate muffled, over-rounded, muted, flubby, or otherwise indistinct neck tones.  I typically love singlecoils for the sparkle, definition, and dynamics.
2.  Refer to #1.

What's a guy to do, then?  I'm looking for beautiful clean tones (hated the SD Jazz in my other guitars bc I found it sterile in every application) and dynamic and sharper lead tones that don't ut me in Slash territory.

I had a nice thread going earlier, where the RYs, Crawler, and even the Jugg was suggested to get me amazing lead tones with the option for splitting into beautiful sparkly cleans.  Have I lost my mind?  Are there calibrated sets or combos that play nice together?
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: AnnunakiMassacr on March 20, 2015, 11:25:21 PM
Ha!

I'm a HSS Superstratman at heart, but have the option to build a HH mahogany bolt-on.  Here's my beef with neck humbuckers:

1.  I hate muffled, over-rounded, muted, flubby, or otherwise indistinct neck tones.  I typically love singlecoils for the sparkle, definition, and dynamics.
2.  Refer to #1.

What's a guy to do, then?  I'm looking for beautiful clean tones (hated the SD Jazz in my other guitars bc I found it sterile in every application) and dynamic and sharper lead tones that don't ut me in Slash territory.

I had a nice thread going earlier, where the RYs, Crawler, and even the Jugg was suggested to get me amazing lead tones with the option for splitting into beautiful sparkly cleans.  Have I lost my mind?  Are there calibrated sets or combos that play nice together?

Have you ever thought of a HSP90?
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 20, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
Yes.  I used to run P90s in a LP DC, but found them too round.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Lucas on March 20, 2015, 11:49:13 PM
the only thing that comes up to my mind is Nailbomb or Painkiller neck, but both might be too 'metal' I`m afraid. It depends what style of music they are meant to be used for.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: AnnunakiMassacr on March 20, 2015, 11:50:42 PM
Try looking at BKPs range of the humbucker sized P90s. They have some pretty bright ones. But the Nailbomb neck to my ears has a pretty nice woody tone. I believe the brightest neck humbucker is the Riff Raff neck, though. Closest to a Duncan 59, I think :)
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 20, 2015, 11:55:44 PM
the only thing that comes up to my mind is Nailbomb or Painkiller neck, but both might be too 'metal' I`m afraid. It depends what style of music they are meant to be used for.

Really just looking for something that can do clean to rock with excellence (and play nice with a RY or Crawler perhaps).  I have no clue what this body is going to sound like.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, guys.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 21, 2015, 12:00:26 AM
I would probably pair the RR neck with the RY bridge

I have the NB neck and it would fit the bill except it is probably too hot for the RY

I don't like the usual neck pickup sound either
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Telerocker on March 21, 2015, 12:10:20 AM
Several options here:
- Mules-set. Very balanced, open and dynamic.
- RR-set (a tad brighter compared to Mules).
- Nantucket-bridge - Bluenote-neck (less boomy than the Nantucket- and MQ-neck)
- RY-bridge - Mule- or RR-neck, HSP90.

Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 21, 2015, 12:11:54 AM
Hmm,

How do the RY/RR play together in position 2?  Do either of these coil split as well as the Crawler/Abraxas?  Thanks.

I would probably pair the RR neck with the RY bridge

I have the NB neck and it would fit the bill except it is probably too hot for the RY

I don't like the usual neck pickup sound either
Several options here:
- Mules-set. Very balanced, open and dynamic.
- RR-set (a tad brighter compared to Mules).
- Nantucket-bridge - Bluenote-neck (less boomy than the Nantucket- and MQ-neck)
- RY-bridge - Mule- or RR-neck, HSP90.


Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 21, 2015, 12:20:56 AM
The RY is similar in many ways to the RR bridge, so they middle position with a RY/RR guitar should be fine.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 21, 2015, 12:22:55 AM
Thank you
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: AnnunakiMassacr on March 21, 2015, 12:26:17 AM
The RY is similar in many ways to the RR bridge, so they middle position with a RY/RR guitar should be fine.

I would have to disagree with this as I loved my Rebel Yell, but I didn't get on too well with the Riff Raff. I can see if you mean the upper mid focus. But the Rebel Yell has a lot more punch, and is a lot more muscular. It might've been an output problem I had with the Riff Raff tbh, and it wasn't thick enough, so I went for a Black Dog. But I had no problems with the Rebel Yell :)

I wouldn't go for the Mule neck btw. I have it, and it is warm. Definitely not the sound you're after. I'm still in 2 minds about it at the mule neck at the moment to be honest. I do really like it, but I want something with the same feel, just brighter. But not aggressively bright, kind of sweet and bright
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 21, 2015, 12:33:26 AM
I just found another review that leads me to believe the Crawler Bridge and VHII Neck might be the ticket.

The RY is similar in many ways to the RR bridge, so they middle position with a RY/RR guitar should be fine.

I would have to disagree with this as I loved my Rebel Yell, but I didn't get on too well with the Riff Raff. I can see if you mean the upper mid focus. But the Rebel Yell has a lot more punch, and is a lot more muscular. It might've been an output problem I had with the Riff Raff tbh, and it wasn't thick enough, so I went for a Black Dog. But I had no problems with the Rebel Yell :)

I wouldn't go for the Mule neck btw. I have it, and it is warm. Definitely not the sound you're after. I'm still in 2 minds about it at the mule neck at the moment to be honest. I do really like it, but I want something with the same feel, just brighter. But not aggressively bright, kind of sweet and bright
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: AnnunakiMassacr on March 21, 2015, 12:36:35 AM
The VHII neck is something I've really wanted to try. Also, if you want something like the VHII, but with more output, look at the Juggernaut. Misha says he thought the VHII was the perfect pickup, but the balance just wasn't right with the higher output models, so the decided the make it hotter to balance for his set
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Telerocker on March 21, 2015, 12:42:30 AM
Crawler is very thick due it's huge midrange. Treble cuts enough for me, but it's rounder than say an RY. The neck-VHII might be too dark and fluid for the OP's taste.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 21, 2015, 04:57:21 AM
Maybe I need to take this one straight vintage/classic. So many options. I know I love low output neck humbuckers. The challenge might be finding a bridge that balances while being able to handle moderate gain. Low output bridge humbuckers tend to be soft under gain, so I might start researching candidates off the vintage list. I feel like my problem is not knowing what I need this guitar to do, so I should step back and finish its physical design first, then sort out the electronics. 
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: seancorker on March 21, 2015, 09:19:51 AM
Maybe I need to take this one straight vintage/classic. So many options. I know I love low output neck humbuckers. The challenge might be finding a bridge that balances while being able to handle moderate gain. Low output bridge humbuckers tend to be soft under gain, so I might start researching candidates off the vintage list. I feel like my problem is not knowing what I need this guitar to do, so I should step back and finish its physical design first, then sort out the electronics.

If this is a custom build have you considered a bridge and middle combo? I've got a mahogany Kramer Nightswan and a Bridge RY in the middle position works superbly well. No flutiness just a slightly fuller bridge tone option.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Serratus on March 21, 2015, 10:51:52 AM
FWIW I've recently tried a Stormy Monday neck (I've got it paired with an Emerald bridge), and I love it! After doing a bit of youtube research I decided that what I really wanted was a low output Alnico II neck pickup, and it definitely has more character than most other higher output AlnicoV neck pickups I've had before. If you love neck single coils (which I do too) then you might be happier with this than anything else (expect maybe a P-90 of some sort). Worth a try maybe :)
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Telerocker on March 21, 2015, 10:52:07 AM
Mule: metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9zcmmdz50 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe9zcmmdz50)

Mule in a H-H-telecaster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWqfFwbgx8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWqfFwbgx8A)

BKP Mule vs Lollar El Rayo in H-H-strat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEolcuLnY60 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEolcuLnY60)

Rebel Yell in Charvel tele:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20zSjw98Gvg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20zSjw98Gvg)

RiffRaffs in mahogany tele:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Oo7bV8h6s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7Oo7bV8h6s)
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 21, 2015, 04:55:40 PM
Hey, guys. I can't thank you enough for your efforts in assisting me with finding the sweet spot for my next build. This forum has a ton of institutional knowledge and everyone has been so consultative. Refreshing. I'm responding from my phone, so Multi-quoting isn't something I can handle at this hour ha.

Anyway, wow. The low powered neck humbuckers I've heard are definitely ok with me. Neck-wise I was really impressed by the Mule and will have to venture on to check out the Stormy Monday.

I liked the Mule at the bridge, but I need something that can split here for Tele tones while still being able to balance out convincingly with the neck in dual coil mode.

The Emerald/Stormy combo sounds intriguing and the Rebel Yell really captures that gritty 80s vibe that I also dig.

I must say that I have a full blown strat with Abraxas and 2 Apache pickups and a tele with The same, but in HXS format, so I've got those tones covered in spades!  I love the Abraxas in the bridge spot, but my fear is ending up with the same sound and having redundancy.  Samples of what I will ask these new pickups to potentially cope with are below, as they may be called into studio duty.

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you guys consider the "middle position"?  This guitar is a HxH, so no middle space - unless you mean on the toggle switch haha. Sorry it's a rough morning and I'm a bit dense I'm sure.

Thanks and rest assured, I'll have plenty of new songs written with this next combo, so I'll be able to give back as I have with the Abraxas and Apache. Cheers all!

---------------
samples:

Heres one that's shows a bit of range from crunch to more saturated tones:
https://soundcloud.com/frankdesalvo/the-deep-field

Here's another that's a bit more extreme and one-sided, but the solo tone is usually what I go for.  Doesn't have to be exact, just capable.
https://soundcloud.com/frankdesalvo/they-fell-to-earth

Finally, this one demonstrates some cleans that I typically go for:
https://soundcloud.com/frankdesalvo/the-april-narrative

Again, the Abraxas does this really well.  I don't need a clone, but something that could pull this off, as well.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Dave Sloven on March 22, 2015, 04:07:19 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but what do you guys consider the "middle position"?  This guitar is a HxH, so no middle space - unless you mean on the toggle switch haha. Sorry it's a rough morning and I'm a bit dense I'm sure.

Middle position: both pickups on (toggle in middle)

Middle pickup: the middle pickup on a three pickup guitar.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 22, 2015, 05:01:01 AM
I get that, but the phrase "middle combo" threw me off.

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you guys consider the "middle position"?  This guitar is a HxH, so no middle space - unless you mean on the toggle switch haha. Sorry it's a rough morning and I'm a bit dense I'm sure.

Middle position: both pickups on (toggle in middle)

Middle pickup: the middle pickup on a three pickup guitar.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: nkay on March 22, 2015, 12:03:14 PM
I have the same feeling about neck pickups. I like something bright, thin, flute-like myself.
My only real experience is with the Cold Sweat neck. It's really good clean, very middy though for fluid soloing in a shred environment. I've heard the Riff Raff neck might be closer to what I'm looking for though.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 22, 2015, 02:54:15 PM
I heard the riff raff neck on a couple YouTube videos last night. Pretty nice.

I solved my problem!  I had my order changed to HXS route. I have to just deal with the fact I'm a singlecoil neck guy at heart. Thanks for all of your suggestions.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: m t soule on March 22, 2015, 06:47:57 PM
When I contacted bkp for single coil sounds from a humbucker they recommend the vhii for the neck and ry for bridge.

I have to say that of all my pick ups the vhii neck is my fave so far. It delivered what I wanted and so much more. The A5 magnet gives it a great attack that simulates the fender style cluck as well as being nice and rich but not over powering. Splits really good with the irish tour nicely and the drop of in power from hum to single is there. To compare it to the crawler and dimarzio evolution necks I would say it got more liveliness to it. I use it in a basswood superstrat,  maple neck and board.

If you want a demo giz a shout I'll sort something out for yer.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 22, 2015, 06:54:42 PM
That's very generous of you and I really appreciate you weighing in.  I may have decided already haha.

When I contacted bkp for single coil sounds from a humbucker they recommend the vhii for the neck and ry for bridge.

I have to say that of all my pick ups the vhii neck is my fave so far. It delivered what I wanted and so much more. The A5 magnet gives it a great attack that simulates the fender style cluck as well as being nice and rich but not over powering. To compare it to the crawler and dimarzio evolution necks I would say it got more liveliness to it. I use it in a basswood superstrat,  maple neck and board.

If you want a demo giz a shout I'll sort something out for yer.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: m t soule on March 22, 2015, 06:56:50 PM
My pleasure sir/lady/being.

It helps me carry my learning journey on top of helping others.

Tommie
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 22, 2015, 07:12:59 PM
I'm Frank (a fellow maiden fan).  It's a pleasure to meet you, my friend.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Alex on March 22, 2015, 08:54:22 PM
The VHII neck is something I've really wanted to try. Also, if you want something like the VHII, but with more output, look at the Juggernaut. Misha says he thought the VHII was the perfect pickup, but the balance just wasn't right with the higher output models, so the decided the make it hotter to balance for his set

I used the VHII in the neck and had the split option. In both modes it was ok, but didn't blow me away, which, in all honesty, probably was more the guitar than the pickup.

How about a P90 in humbucker casing? That would be different.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: darkbluemurder on March 23, 2015, 03:15:08 PM
Late to the thread here but I have the same issue with full sized humbuckers. My favorite in the BKP line is the Holydiver neck - clear, bright, the least muddy of them all but still sounds like a full sized humbucker. Paired with a stronger bridge pickup it works very well though. Currently I use it in my LP custom together with the Rebel Yell bridge.

I found HxS to be a great combo. The single coil never gets muddy, not even on the low strings, and you can use a lower output humbucker in the bridge spot while maintaining a good volume and tonal balance between the two.

Another nice alternative is a minihumbucker or firebird pickup in the neck spot.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 23, 2015, 05:25:58 PM
Thanks DBM/Alex.

I've found the HxS setup to be really enjoyable configuration on a mahogany tele I play (Abraxas/Apache).  With a push/pull volume splitting the bridge, there are some really great tones inside.  The two pickups I mentioned are an incredible combination and nail vintage tones - power metal with authority.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: gwEm on March 24, 2015, 11:08:01 AM
Thanks DBM/Alex.

I've found the HxS setup to be really enjoyable configuration on a mahogany tele I play (Abraxas/Apache).  With a push/pull volume splitting the bridge, there are some really great tones inside.  The two pickups I mentioned are an incredible combination and nail vintage tones - power metal with authority.

I'm very keen on neck single coil tones, and generally have problems with neck humbuckers when you get to a live situation - flubby, no cut. They are fine at home though.

The solution I've found is to wire the neck humbucker in parallel. I've done this in a few guitars and have been very pleased.
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Telerocker on March 24, 2015, 01:25:36 PM

I'm very keen on neck single coil tones, and generally have problems with neck humbuckers when you get to a live situation - flubby, no cut. They are fine at home though.

The solution I've found is to wire the neck humbucker in parallel. I've done this in a few guitars and have been very pleased.

That's a fine solution. I'm with you when it comes to single coils in the neckposition. The sound of a screaming strat-neckcoil is to die for. I use it a lot on my strat, even more than the Crawler in the bridgeposition.

Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: fdesalvo on March 24, 2015, 02:15:46 PM
I love you guys so much right now.

Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: kauwgom on March 24, 2015, 02:19:39 PM
I just installed a Manhattan on my Gibson LP studio (neck) and it is gorgeous: great note definition and will cut through the mix I'm sure. It's like a single coil but infinitely fatter without losing the sparkle, can't recommend it more highly.

And surprisingly, when I crank my amp the overdriven sounds are smooth as butter :)
Title: Re: Neck humbucker for guys that hate neck humbuckers?
Post by: Alex on March 24, 2015, 08:05:15 PM
I believe BKP once recommended to me using the VHII in a parallel configuration. I never did though.