Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Lucas on April 05, 2015, 10:01:35 PM
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Hi,
Any Orange amps users here?
I`ve been using an Orange Dual Terror amp for a while (with Orange 2x12 open back cab), but have an impression that it`s really picky when it comes to distortion pedals.
In front of the amp I`m using Wampler Triple Wreck dist pedal and Wampler Plexidrive overdrive pedal. Unfortunately I`m never able to dial a good decent tone while running those pedals.
With my band in the practice room I use Marshall JCM 900 combo amp, and both pedals sound absolutely great, once I come back home and plug the whole thing into Orange it sounds muddy and fizzy and not as great. I`ve spent hours on dialing both pedals with Orange but it seems to be really picky and doesn`t take distortion pedals well.
A week ago I put all NEW valves ang got the amp serviced but still...
Any Orange users can confirm the fact that Oranges don`t take pedals well?
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I have the Hardwired Tiny Terror and I do agree. I have found that my modified Tubescreamer clone only really works for 80s metal style when using my RY guitar and for modern metal when using the Stockholm axe. Both only with very specific settings though.
Outside that I have great results with the Juansolo Klone though. Not that surprising as it is hard to find a setting on that one that does not sound good in some way on most amps. On the Orange it again is more picky, but since the amp likes to be pushed imho the Klone hits the spot since it is so organic and controlled.
Finally, a clean boost, the Superhardon for me, also works really well from clean to distortion to get the entire thing cooking more.
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When replacing valves a week ago I`ve even put 5751s (NOS JAN-GE 5751 for V1) for later breakup and cleaner sound and EL84 STRs and yes, amp sounds better on its own, but with pedals, not much better.
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Orange-amps are picky. A Klon-type overdrive works quite ok on an Orange. My Rockerverb takes the Emma Reezafratzitz well, but I keep the gain on the pedal low when using the drivechannel. Sometimes I use a Suhr Riot-pedal on the clean channel. It does a good job when I have to play at low volume, but need searing distortion.
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These have two channels, right? Is it both channels that dislike distortion pedals?
On my Peavey 6534+ and Classic 30 the gainy channels don't respond well to anything but overdrives with the gain turned right down (i.e., used as a boost) but the clean channels can handle anything up to a Boss HM-2 without issues.
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These have two channels, right? Is it both channels that dislike distortion pedals?
Yes, Tiny Terror channel and Fat channel. To be honest Fat channel takes both pedals little bit better but still not as good as Marshall JCM900 combo.
Funny enough, last night I`ve done some researches on the internet and there`s plenty of people saying that Oranges don`t like pedals especially OD/DIST ones.
initially I thought it`s due to worn valves, I replaced them all and got the amp serviced (it needed that anyway so no big deal) but in comparison to Marshall JCM 900 combo which is nearly falling apart with valves which remember sinking of the Titanic, Marshall wins hands down.
it seems to be that Oranges are quite 'dirty' amp with it`s own unique filthy tone. They also don`t seem to be versatile, just 'British' dirty rock machines, nothing more, nothing less.
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I know someone who had an AD30, really hated it, and I think sold it on to another friend of mine who must be less picky.
He had trouble getting other sounds out of it via pedals etc, said he couldn't get a good metal tone out of it
I had problems with my Peavey when I first got it but I think that was just that I didn't know how to EQ it and the speakers in my Orange PPC412 weren't broken in yet. Also a lot of valve amps sound awful on low volumes. My Peaveys don't sound any good below 2.5/10
Tube amps generally like to be pushed. Maybe try using a clean boost. How does your Wampler OD sound through it with drive on zero and level on max? If that gets you enough gain then try fine-tuning your sound with an EQ pedal in the effects loop, something like an MXR 10-band. You could also add a compressor and a noise gate. I would try borrowing such pedals from a friend first rather than buying them unheard.
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Well, Im not saying that it`s a bad amp, I would rather say that it has a specific voicing and specific character. I mainly use that Marshall in the practice room, my Orange is only being used at home so far.
long story short, it`s certainly not a versatile amp and for everyone.
I know for sure now that plugging in Wampler Triple Wreck in front of an clean Orange won`t change it into modern metal machine.
It can be achieved faaaaar way more easier with eg Marshall.
shame that I didn`t know that when buying my Orange, portability was the main thing at that time, and lunchbox seemed to be perfect.
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My TT seems to have the whole range from blues to stoner metal rather confortably. Very british flavor of course. I did change some tubes though. Especially the TAD Str change it a tad away from classic EL84 by adding more high and bottom. The front end tubes I also changed for ones with more high end and low mids. I recon that helped with it being boost friendlier too.
For the three knobs it has I find it rather versatile in it´s way now. If it had 3 way EQ like the Root version I´d be even happier though, so that will be bought at some point I recon.
Pushing the front end seems to always make it really come alive, but you either need to do it clean as I mentioned or with just the right OD. Again, here the lighter, organic, and transparent gainstructure of the Klone seems to work. At 2-12-10 o clock or around there I get a lovely "more" setting.
In terms of modern metal I can say that the In Flames album Sounds of a Playground Fading was double tracked with a limited edition Marshall and a stock Tiny Terror which Björn Gelotte is a fan of.
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Kiichi, I got TAD Str as you recommended them to me long time ago. The amp itself sounds great now, but cannot get any decent sound out of pedals.
As Agent Orange mentioned most tube amps sounds dull at low volumes, at home unfortunately I cannot play loud due to my neighbors (live in a flat and I`m the only one young person in that building, all my neighbors are 50, 60+ and dont like me playing me loud :evil:)
Anyway, next Sunday I`ll take my Orange to the practice room and will crank it much louder and will see what will happen.
cheers
ps. dont get me wrong, have nothing against my older neighbors at all, but they seem not to share my passion for loud guitar music.
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My observations on the DT are it has a very full sound with lots of low mids and bass . I always use mine in the 30w mode with gain on fat channel between midnight & 2 oclock and vol at about the same. tone about midnight, i don't find it muddy but full. I boost it also with an emma or juansolo with low gain higher vol settings. I woudn't say it's picky per se with pedals but does have it's own character.
I also have good results with a flashback delay in front with minimal delay level. I love the the other channel on a cleanish setting, vol 2 oclock gain 9, nice jingly highs. As much delay or reverb as you want here. It's very versatile & dynamic.
I could see a Marshall being easier to dial in and its sound occupies a narrower spectrum (less boomy) but i think it's just a taste thing. I have a jcm 800 clone and love it & the DT.
At home it may be more appealing using 15w but quietish noodling won't show either of these amps at their best, au contraire.
Maybe you should ask an orange agent instead of agent orange ? :rolleyes:
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I haven't used my DT or TT for quite a while but I found that a clean boost or treble booster worked better than an overdrive pedal. It just pushed the front a little harder to give more saturation without losing clarity but I wasn't really after this, I just wanted to lift the volume for lead breaks and that didn't work. The only way I managed it was to set the amp fairly clean and use my JuanSolo Clone for added dirt and then put my CAE line driver after that to get a decent volume boost.
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Unless you move to the country with lots of room around you (like me) I think annoying the neighbours is a given. Even my Classic 30 is too loud for a place such as you live in. I'd barely get by with my Roland Cube 30X practice amp on low volumes if I lived in a flat. Basically nothing sounds good in a little apartment until you get into the range that engenders hostility on the part of neighbours, young or old. No one wants to hear you practice while they are eating dinner, watching television, etc.
Even though it is a little amp unless it comes with a headphone jack I'm afraid you are left with it sounding like cr@p at liveable household volumes. I would take it to your band space and crank it a bit, get it sounding how you want it there, and try to remember what it can sound like when you are home playing at neighbour-friendly volumes ... I have this issue when family are around, and it is kind of painful listening to the Classic 30 sounding like cr@p. Of course they can't understand the difference and wonder why I have it so high when they spring me playing it at decent sounding volume sometimes.
I don't even plug my 6534+ in at home any more. That is for band practice and gigs only now that the speakers have been broken in.
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Kiichi, I got TAD Str as you recommended them to me long time ago. The amp itself sounds great now, but cannot get any decent sound out of pedals.
Oh cheers for that.
The main point also was about those tube changes making it less picky in my eyes, as I know that the amp is good and that you like it. Yes, it still is picky for pedals after the changes, but the ones I use would not works half as well with stock tubes. Granted, I did not say that well.
Thing is that you need to get the tubes cooking to get away from that dull sound and you can´t crank the power stage. However you can still get the preamp cooking more by pushing it. As it is picky with regular distortion and ODs, a boost or, as d1dsj noted, treble boost work better. The Klone works too since it is less OD and more booster with a gain multiplication knob. Hard to explain that one.
With a treble boost or smth you can wake up the preamp at lower volumes and get better sounds imho.
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What I do at home: Suhr Riot -> Blues Junior. Smokes!
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I have used a Dual Terror through an Orange 2 x 12 quite a bit in our rehearsal place. I really liked the amp but I did find that chords tended to mush together into one homogenous sound unlike my Cornford Roadhouse which lets you hear every note in a six string chord even with lots of gain. I never tried an O/D through the DT but I imagine it would mush things up even further. It sounds like you're using rather specialised O/D pedals - a pedal that is built to give a plexi sound really needs a cleaner base to work on.
You might be better off with a simpler O/D. I have a Boss OD3 which is my go to pedal for livening up virtually any amp. It is known to have little effect on an amp's eq (no bass cut or mid boost) and simply adds more punch (with the volume up) and more grit (with the gain up). I've even made a Marshall MG amp produce some usable tones with it. If I'm in a situation where I can't use my own amp the OD3 has always saved the day. I also have a Blackstar HT Drive with a valve in it which was a lot more expensive and is not as versatile as the OD3.
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I also have Wampler Ego Compressor which stays always on on the floor. I place it always before DIST/OD, I`ll try tomorrow to place it after them to see what will happen.
Anyway, on Sunday once all valves are replaced I`ll take that Orange to the practice room and will crank it louder.
basically I hoped to get some tones like this from my Wampler Triple Wreck (from 2:20 to 3:05), (yeesss, wishful thinking but that video made me buying that pedal)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG2S9HUHsqM
but with my Orange on those settings the result is muddy, bassy, blurry piece of **** when I add up brightness it turns into blurry and fizzy piece of ****.
many thanks all of you guys!
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The Triple Wreck is a highgain pedal and most Oranges don't like that type of pedal, especially not on the drivechannel. My Brunetti Mercurybox 2 sounds quite ok on the clean channel of the RV, but is way too hefty and a tad dark in the lower register for the drivechannel. I suggest to look at something like a transparant OD to push the amp. Or set your amp clean or with a little edge, maybe that provides the best result with the Triple Wreck.
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I guess you've seen this.
http://orangeampsblog.com/?p=394
I suspect that a 808 or maybe an MXR Custom Badass OD with the level cranked up with the mid hump turned off might give the best results for metal.
I the following video I actually like the TC Electronics Dark Matter Distortion best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e48mHfZPBw8
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I suggest to look at something like a transparant OD to push the amp. Or set your amp clean or with a little edge, maybe that provides the best result with the Triple Wreck.
That`s what I was doing, setting both channels as clean as possible and then using Triple Wreck. Fat channel was able to handle that better.
Triple Wreck is an 'amp in the box' as Wampler advertise it, Plexidrive supposes to be more transparent and less violent towards the amp overdrive but still aiming into certain type of sound.
I never looked at things like Maxon or Tubescreamer type of booster, as buying Triple Wreck and Plexidrive I hoped to cover both grounds DIST/OD. My mistake, never really checked how those pedals will behave with my amp.
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Yeah, Orange does not play well with amp in a box types to distill it down. Orange will be Orange. All you can do is change the shade of the Orange, the size, the freshness, the juicieness. You´ll never make it a banana though.
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I have had a rockerverb, a or15 and now the jim root terror. All of them were very picky about pedals and particularly drives. I found light drives and boosts work much better.
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Is there any sense of using Maxon/tubescreamer booster after or before (never had any experience with boosters) OD/DIST like Triple Wreck to make the whole thing sound better in my case? I mean permanently on.
I have watched couple of demos of Maxon OD808 as a booster and you can get a used one on places like Ebay very cheap.
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I think you'll find that if the Wampler pedal doesn't work now the tubescreamer will just make is suck worse.
Maybe keep it for the clean channel of a Peavey Bandit or something. A tubescreamer by itself should help
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I'm not familiar with either of your pedals but I've just looked at the Wampler site. I would say that the Triple Wreck is probably not a great choice to go with your amp. You may have more luck with the Plexidrive by itself. I would suggest turning the gain to zero. Turn the pedal volume up so that it's not adding any more drive to the amp. Then try setting the tone to as close to the amp's sound as possible. Then try adding a little more volume at a time. This should add a bit more oomph without altering your base sound too much. Then try adding a little gain. Basically, start with nothing and add the other elements gradually and sparingly.
I really like the Dual Terror. It's the first amp I've played in years that I would buy tomorrow if I had the spare cash. But it's a British flavoured amp that will never sound like a rectifier. By the way - you really need to be playing it loud while you experiment.
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I have the DT. which I put through a Zilla 2x12 with Vintage 30's. I run it as clean as I can and use a Carl Martin DC Drive pedal. gets the results I need.
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Well guys, so everything is about cranking the amp lound I can say!
Just came back from the band practice, took my Orange today and to be honest I`m really pleased with the outcome as well as both Wampler pedals!
It sounded completely different than when I play in my bedroom trying not to piss my neighbors off.
It certainly wasn`t as clear sounding as Marshall JCM900 combo but sounded still great, not muddy, not blurry ect.
Orange was still adding little 'fuzziness' to the overall sound but I recon that it`s Orange nature anyway.
I used Tiny Terror channel as clean as possible with little gain and volume turned up.
What I also noticed is that Orange is quite 'boomy' with characteristic 'pop' at the start of single notes especially on clean sound without any OD/DIST.
Long story short to make it sound good you do have to play it loud.
Many thanks as always for great help to all of you!
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Same with all valve amps I think
For bedroom practicing a solid state amp is best. Save the valve amps for the practice room and gigs
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Same with all valve amps I think
For bedroom practicing a solid state amp is best. Save the valve amps for the practice room and gigs
Couldn't agree more. If I plug in at home it has to be very low volume so I use a Microcube which does a great job and is fun to play. I wouldn't replace it with a small valve amp but the Blackstar Core amps look like a lot of fun.