Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Matty on May 13, 2015, 11:18:44 PM
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Hi,
my 7 string Ibanez RG927QMZ with BKP Holydivers sounds a bit muddy/loose and dull through a Peavey Valveking 212.
I tried to adjust the EQ several times, took away the bass but it didn't help. I'm in standard tuning.
The low end still stays a bit muddy and loose. It should be more tight, focused and punching.
Since BKPs are known for their clarity, I wonder if it's just me setting up the amp wrong. Or do I have the wrong PU? The HD gives the basswood guitar a more full and deep sound with more "body".
I'd like to keep that, but have a more focused and clear, punchy low end without getting thin, ice-picky or muddy.
Also, if you recommend a boost pedal, I'd rather spend the money on another PU.
Which bridge PU matches the Holydiver Neck and delivers the described sound?
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Miracle Man or Ceramic Nailbomb?
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Did you try to turn the volume up of the amp?
Have the same issue with my CBomb on lower volumes of my Orange Dual Terror amp, once I crank it up it sounds much better.
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What pots and caps do you have in?
These make a noticeable difference at bkp spec over stock ibanez for example.
More clarity and overtone sparkle.
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Have to tried turning the pre-gain on the amp down a bit and adding an overdrive (set with level on full and drive on zero) before it? This can often tighten up Peavey amps.
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There are certainly a number of things that you can do before going to the expense of changing pickups, most of which may have a bigger impact anyway.
The cheapest option is to look at the EQ settings on your amp and unfortunately you don’t say what you’re currently using so the only advice I can give is not to use a scooped sound. If you want to have some cut, you need mids, especially upper mids.
Next I’d go with the option of an Overdrive pedal and use it as described by Agent Orange. This can be a really cheap and effective way of manipulating your tone. Most players use too much gain anyway, me included, so dial it back a bit so that you have a tone that is certainly distorted but not overtly so then kick in the Overdrive. Something like a Digitech Bad Monkey can be bought for just £25 new and is incredibly effective for the money. The other guitarist in my band still swears by it and when I was looking for an Overdrive recently I went straight to the Hardwire Overdrive by Digitech, which can be had for £45 new. The point is that it’s an effective way of tightening things up without having to spend a fortune.
After that I’d go back to EQ but this time I’d get an EQ pedal. I use a Boss GE-7 and I’ve found that it completely transforms the way my amp sounds and one of the effects is certainly greater clarity. You can pick these up on Ebay easily enough for about £40 and it’s a great investment. In fact, Overdrive and EQ are two pedals I simply couldn’t live without these days.
Once you’ve tried these options, things may get a bit more expensive but next up I’d look at the speaker you’re using. The speaker(s) you’re using can have a huge impact on your tone, probably a lot more than a new pickup will. If you just use a 1X12 like me, this is a very cost effective way of transforming your tone but obviously, if you use a couple of 4X12 cabinets then it will get expensive quite quickly. When I switched from my old Blackstar amp to my new Orange amp it took me quite a while to dial in the tone I wanted and a lot of that was getting used to the new speaker (Vintage 30) but the effect of having this different speaker has been dramatic. I cut through the band mix far more than I ever have done before, so much so that I am probably now on a lower volume setting and still being heard more. The speaker you’re using is often overlooked as we talk about tone but in my experience it has a far more profound effect than any pickup I’ve ever used. Put it this way, I top quality pickup going through a poor speaker will sound terrible but an average pickup going through a top quality speaker will still sound impressive. In an ideal world of course, you have your Holydiver going through a great speaker and if you also tie it in with the other suggestions here you’ll find you’ll be much happier. For a cheaper option to Celestion speakers, try looking at these guys who have an excellent reputation:
https://wgs4.com
If all of the above fails, and I seriously doubt it will, then you’re down to the more expensive options of changing pickups or changing your amp. If you end up changing pickup, then I’d look at the Miracle Man but if you like the Holydiver, I’d certainly be trying all of the above first. Finally, keep in mind that a good pickup, like a good valve amp, needs to breathe to really show what it can do. The last new pickup I had (not a BKP but very like a Holydiver) always sounded MUCH better at gig volumes.
I hope that helps.
Good luck
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Also playing the height on the pickup can make a noticable difference and is cheap, as it does not cost a thing.
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VHII is punchy and clearer. I have noticed excessive mids in the HD can be on the verge of being muddy. Probably not the best option for a basswood guitar tbh. Pup height might help a bit and obviously rolling the mids back on the amp might help a pinch.
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After that I’d go back to EQ but this time I’d get an EQ pedal. I use a Boss GE-7 and I’ve found that it completely transforms the way my amp sounds and one of the effects is certainly greater clarity. You can pick these up on Ebay easily enough for about £40 and it’s a great investment.
Do you have the EQ pedal in your effects loop? That's where I have mine (MXR 10-band).
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Yes, that's where I have mine. I tried it up front but the effect was nothing like as pronounced so now it's the first thing in the loop, followed by an ISP Decimator, Delay and Reverb. Actually, I use two GE-7 pedals, one after the other and the second one is used as a solo boost. I always used to just use the amp's EQ controls, thinking it was as much as I needed and only tried an EQ pedal because my Orange amp doesn't have conventional EQ controls. Now I wouldn't be without one as they're the perfect way of sculpting your tone and boosting for solos.
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I have the highest frequency on mine (16K) cut by quite a bit. Not much happens up there except for fizz, screeching, and other awful stuff and the EQ is a good way of controlling that without adding a compressor. Mine is before my ISP as well, first in the loop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlz1pd0UyrU
Basically I think that the MXR 10-band might be a little better, but the Boss is in my opinion better than the (9V) MXR 6-band (which I also own, but rarely use) and is probably the best you will get for a good price that runs on 9V (the 10-band is 18V).
I have to add this link too because it's so funny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK551z36mZo
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I would wholeheartedly agree that the MXR 10-Band is better but I went for the Boss because it's 9v, it's compact and it's readily available on Ebay for relatively little money.
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That's what I was getting at. 9V and the size are both big pluses
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Hi,
my 7 string Ibanez RG927QMZ with BKP Holydivers sounds a bit muddy/loose and dull through a Peavey Valveking 212.
I tried to adjust the EQ several times, took away the bass but it didn't help. I'm in standard tuning.
The low end still stays a bit muddy and loose. It should be more tight, focused and punching.
Since BKPs are known for their clarity, I wonder if it's just me setting up the amp wrong. Or do I have the wrong PU? The HD gives the basswood guitar a more full and deep sound with more "body".
I'd like to keep that, but have a more focused and clear, punchy low end without getting thin, ice-picky or muddy.
Also, if you recommend a boost pedal, I'd rather spend the money on another PU.
Which bridge PU matches the Holydiver Neck and delivers the described sound?
Ya, the B string on a 7 string tends to get pretty thick and low mid focused. Maybe you need a set of pickups more suitable to being drop tuned? That being said, I find that a Painkiller Bridge in a Schecter 26.5 scale guitar can get quite bassy, flubby, and low mid focused, especially in drop G#. In this case, an OD helped out immensely. The Bulb Deluxe OD Djents like crazy, no surprise there!!
(I really think that the muddy / flubby quality is more to do with the design of extended range guitars than a problem with how the pickups work)
I should mention that I got a pretty awesome result with a Rebel Yell in a bolt on mahogany 6 string with a mahogany neck and rosewood board. When I drop tuned it to drop B, the results were very pleasing.
Once you’ve tried these options, things may get a bit more expensive but next up I’d look at the speaker you’re using. The speaker(s) you’re using can have a huge impact on your tone, probably a lot more than a new pickup will. If you just use a 1X12 like me, this is a very cost effective way of transforming your tone but obviously, if you use a couple of 4X12 cabinets then it will get expensive quite quickly. When I switched from my old Blackstar amp to my new Orange amp it took me quite a while to dial in the tone I wanted and a lot of that was getting used to the new speaker (Vintage 30) but the effect of having this different speaker has been dramatic. I cut through the band mix far more than I ever have done before, so much so that I am probably now on a lower volume setting and still being heard more. The speaker you’re using is often overlooked as we talk about tone but in my experience it has a far more profound effect than any pickup I’ve ever used. Put it this way, I top quality pickup going through a poor speaker will sound terrible but an average pickup going through a top quality speaker will still sound impressive. In an ideal world of course, you have your Holydiver going through a great speaker and if you also tie it in with the other suggestions here you’ll find you’ll be much happier. For a cheaper option to Celestion speakers, try looking at these guys who have an excellent reputation:
https://wgs4.com
WGS are totally quality speakers.
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Are these the only pickups that you've had in this guitar? Were there others in it prior that were tighter sounding?
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I tried a HD in a couple of my Kramers and found them to be muddy and loose using a Cornford MK50ii. I really don't get these suggestions of adding pedals to compensate, There are other P/U winders and other solutions. If the HD doesn't work for you, get rid and try something else - that's what I did and couldn't be happier with the P/U's I have now.
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Hi,
my 7 string Ibanez RG927QMZ with BKP Holydivers sounds a bit muddy/loose and dull through a Peavey Valveking 212.
I tried to adjust the EQ several times, took away the bass but it didn't help. I'm in standard tuning.
The low end still stays a bit muddy and loose. It should be more tight, focused and punching.
Since BKPs are known for their clarity, I wonder if it's just me setting up the amp wrong. Or do I have the wrong PU? The HD gives the basswood guitar a more full and deep sound with more "body".
I'd like to keep that, but have a more focused and clear, punchy low end without getting thin, ice-picky or muddy.
Also, if you recommend a boost pedal, I'd rather spend the money on another PU.
Which bridge PU matches the Holydiver Neck and delivers the described sound?
I found the Cold Sweat bridge to be a good match to the Holydiver neck. Mine is in a guitar that in itself is rather mid-focussed and the strong but tight low end and the clear cutting top end balanced that out nicely. So for the tight low end it would be the ticket. It should also cure any dull complaint. I am not sure what you mean by "focused" since you did not quote a frequency band. Could it be you meant "more articulate"? In that case I can say that the Cold Sweat bridge has a very clear articulation but not as much midrange. If you want that, Miracle Man has it. Ceramic Nailbomb is said to have it, too but I haven't played that one.
As regards overdrive pedals to clear a too boomy low end - that only works with pedals that have a low end cut such as treble boosters or tube screamers. If you use one of these, be sure to back off the gain on the amp and get additional gain from the pedal. Overdrive pedals that are frequency transparent will not help - they most likely make matters worse.
Cheers Stephan
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Dime all the EQ knobs and see how that sounds. Then start "taking away" a bit here and there what you don't like. I've spent years running Marshalls and later my small Krank amp just with the EQ maxed flat out. I think some amp designers create the basic amp sound that way, not with the EQ on twelve o'clock. On my ENGL now I do cut the bass back a bit.
If that doesn't work, I think there is something not ok with the Peavey, because that guitar with that pickup shouldn't be giving you problems unless something is wrong with the wiring (which you'd know from a lot of noise).
Sometimes it can also be the speakers that are holding a whole setup back.
Extra EQ pedals/booster are more for fine-tuning - the basic sound needs to come from the guitar, amp and speakers and that should be ok first before meddling with pedals and more pickups.