Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: one on June 04, 2015, 08:39:54 AM
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In a scale from max warmth 1 to max brightness 10, how would you define this 7 strings guitar?
Body: Mahogany with walnut top
Neck: Pau ferro/maple/ovangkol
Fingerboard: Maple
I love tech death metal and progressive metal. What do you think of the Painkiller/ColdSweat combo here?
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Standard tuning? I appreciate you've said the genres but any bands in particular?
I believe Mohammed Sucimez dabbled with BKP's for a time and he used the painkiller/cold sweat combo. For say Necrophagist type stuff i'd say the painkiller is perfect. Not being pedantic but for progressive stuff like Opeth, Mastodon, Dream Theater. Symphony X (Which comes to my mind when I think of prog metal) there might be more suitable choices and the ceramic nailbomb would cover all basses.
C-bomb or painkiller for me based on what youve said so far. The cold sweat neck would work well with either.
EDIT - Also consider the Juggeranut set for a very 'modern' feel.
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Hard to say.
How bright does it sound to you, unplugged? Is it very middy?
I agree that they are excellent pickups for the genre, I'm just not sure how they will interact with your guitar's woods
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Standard tuning? I appreciate you've said the genres but any bands in particular?
I believe Mohammed Sucimez dabbled with BKP's for a time and he used the painkiller/cold sweat combo. For say Necrophagist type stuff i'd say the painkiller is perfect. Not being pedantic but for progressive stuff like Opeth, Mastodon, Dream Theater. Symphony X (Which comes to my mind when I think of prog metal) there might be more suitable choices and the ceramic nailbomb would cover all basses.
C-bomb or painkiller for me based on what youve said so far. The cold sweat neck would work well with either.
EDIT - Also consider the Juggeranut set for a very 'modern' feel.
Thanks for you answer. You've described bands I love and nailed what I wanted, I love Obscura and Necrophagist mainly in tech death and Opeth, Mastodon and Dream Theater in a more mellow side. I was told the nailbomb is even more treble oriented than the PK, that's why I'm asking. Btw, I already have a pair of Juggs and I like'em but would like to try something else
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Hard to say.
How bright does it sound to you, unplugged? Is it very middy?
I agree that they are excellent pickups for the genre, I'm just not sure how they will interact with your guitar's woods
Thanks for your reply. The problem is that I don't have the guitar at home yet, a few months are left until that. That's why I wanted to know, in case anyone have an axe with similar specs. I think it could be something in the middle but I'm not sure and I'd like to know your opinion about it.
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I would wait until you have it in your hands before buying any upgrades!
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I would wait until you have it in your hands before buying any upgrades!
Thanks, Agent Orange, but it won't be an upgrade. The guitar is a RAN it will be the stock pickups I have to choose before it's built.
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In that case I would contact BKP via email and ask them what they think might work. They have received a lot of feedback on guitars that they have provided pickups for and are familiar with the kinds of tones that you are looking for. They should be able to give you some good advice regarding how your woods and construction might influence the sound. As I stated above all things being equal the Painkiller is an excellent choice for that sound as long as the woods don't clash with the EQ of the pickup. You should be pretty safe with the neck pickup; bridge tends to be a bit more picky most times.
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In that case I would contact BKP via email and ask them what they think might work. They have received a lot of feedback on guitars that they have provided pickups for and are familiar with the kinds of tones that you are looking for. They should be able to give you some good advice regarding how your woods and construction might influence the sound. As I stated above all things being equal the Painkiller is an excellent choice for that sound as long as the woods don't clash with the EQ of the pickup. You should be pretty safe with the neck pickup; bridge tends to be a bit more picky most times.
Thanks, mate. I already asked them. They suggested Aftermaths or C-pigs. I don't like the Aftermaths very much, I find the a bit sterile for my likes. I think C-pigs on the other hand should be great, but in more treblish guitar than mine. I think mahogany and C-pigs is going to be too bassy. So far, PK are the winners here, I think.
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The painkiller has more treble than the nailbomb for sure.
I think the painkiller would nail necrophagist etc but but the nailbomb better suited to Opeth, DT etc and beyond to be fair.
For me I think the ceramic nailbomb is the best bet here. The nailbomb is a lot more versatile than the painkiller and is for recommended for prog metal to thrash. If the tech death stuff takes primacy though then go for the painkiller......the painkiller sits some where between a duncan distortion and an emg 81 but with lots of 'grindy' character and much more clarity than duncan or emg. The painkiller for me covers judas priest painkiller tone and beyond and is not suited to the mellower moments of say DT, Opeth etc.
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The painkiller has more treble than the nailbomb for sure.
I think the painkiller would nail necrophagist etc but but the nailbomb better suited to Opeth, DT etc and beyond to be fair.
For me I think the ceramic nailbomb is the best bet here. The nailbomb is a lot more versatile than the painkiller and is for recommended for prog metal to thrash. If the tech death stuff takes primacy though then go for the painkiller......the painkiller sits some where between a duncan distortion and an emg 81 but with lots of 'grindy' character and much more clarity than duncan or emg. The painkiller for me covers judas priest painkiller tone and beyond and is not suited to the mellower moments of say DT, Opeth etc.
Ok, Jimmy, thanks for your recommendation. Now I'm even more indecisive. I love the Necrophagist tone but If I had to choose between that one and something more versatile like DT, Opeth, and all that stuff, the decision is tougher. I bet someone told me the Nailbombs are even brighter than the Painkillers
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in my experience, the ceramic nailbomb sounds much warmer than the painkiller
the miracle man sounds quite focused on leads, but still warm
this demo is a great representation of the c-bomb character and versatility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t8dVF4lOrs
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The painkiller has more treble than the nailbomb for sure.
I think the painkiller would nail necrophagist etc but but the nailbomb better suited to Opeth, DT etc and beyond to be fair.
For me I think the ceramic nailbomb is the best bet here. The nailbomb is a lot more versatile than the painkiller and is for recommended for prog metal to thrash. If the tech death stuff takes primacy though then go for the painkiller......the painkiller sits some where between a duncan distortion and an emg 81 but with lots of 'grindy' character and much more clarity than duncan or emg. The painkiller for me covers judas priest painkiller tone and beyond and is not suited to the mellower moments of say DT, Opeth etc.
Ok, Jimmy, thanks for your recommendation. Now I'm even more indecisive. I love the Necrophagist tone but If I had to choose between that one and something more versatile like DT, Opeth, and all that stuff, the decision is tougher. I bet someone told me the Nailbombs are even brighter than the Painkillers
Tone is subjective and I was being diplomatic but as a matter of fact the Painkiller is certainly brighter than the nailbomb and who ever told you otherwise is plain wrong! As Eric rightly says the nailbomb is warmer.
Have a think about it but I think you'd be happy with either. The nailbomb is often recommended for trash and progressive metal styles so logically if it can do progressive stuff and thrashy riffs it'll be fine with tech death! For riffs and in the right guitar the nailbomb is my favourite rythm pickup of all.
The ceramic nailbomb and painkiller wont be worlds apart. If you're really happy with the voicing of your amp in general i'd go for the ceramic nailbomb. If your amp is severely lacking in terms of tightness/high mids/treble then i'd go painkiller.
Both will be awesome but I think the c-bomb is what youre after. Thinking about it you have similar tastes to me and thats what id use!
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There is a substantial difference between the ceramic and alnico versions of the Nailbomb. I think the alnico NB might be too middy and have too much treble detail but the ceramic version is more toned-down in those respects with a tighter bottom end and more highs relative to the mids. Out of the other BKPs I'd say that the NB is the closest to the PK tone wise
I wouldn't entirely discount the C-Pig. The Aftermath though I can understand your reservations. You really need to like that sound
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Thanks, mates :)
A guy from a shop who sells a lot of BKPs said the Nailbomb is just as bright as the painkiller. Some forum friend who has tried dozens of them also told me that the lows sounds much better and are more tight in the PK. A matter of taste, I guess. Another friend of mine has established this rank from bright to bassy:
Aftermath->C-Nailbomb/Blackhawks->Miracle Man/Painkiller->C-pig-->Alnico Warpig
He said that the PK is somewhat similar to a EMG81 but with better sound and more body. He says the C-bomb has an 80's cool flavour like a JB that actually sounded good (I never tried a JB, so I don't know very well what he means)
I'm going to put a poll if I can just to get the opinion of those who read but don't want to write :)
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Thanks, mates :)
A guy from a shop who sells a lot of BKPs said the Nailbomb is just as bright as the painkiller. Some forum friend who has tried dozens of them also told me that the lows sounds much better and are more tight in the PK. A matter of taste, I guess. Another friend of mine has established this rank from bright to bassy:
Aftermath->C-Nailbomb/Blackhawks->Miracle Man/Painkiller->C-pig-->Alnico Warpig
He said that the PK is somewhat similar to a EMG81 but with better sound and more body. He says the C-bomb has an 80's cool flavour like a JB that actually sounded good (I never tried a JB, so I don't know very well what he means)
I'm going to put a poll if I can just to get the opinion of those who read but don't want to write :)
Honestly mate reading the above you'd be better off listening to people on this forum. I take no pleasure in saying the info youve been given is WAY off IMO.
Bright and dark are good starting points to describe a sound but a pickup could be extremely bassy but also very bright.
I agree the painkiller is very tight. In that regards its similar to an EMG 81 and in that it has a similar upper mid and treble response but thats it.....they dont sound similar as such.
Its often said the rebel yell and holy diver are BKP'ish' takes on the Duncan JB but whilst I have read some people say the nailbomb is similar to a JB I strongly disagree with this.
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First off I would try to narrow it down like this.
1. You need a ceramic pickup
2. Do you want a 'hairy' pickup (or not)? I think the answer to this in your case might be yes, but not too much
3. How will the EQ of the pickup interact with the EQ of my guitar?
The C-Bomb, Cold Sweat, Miracle Man, and C-Pig have a mid scoop. The C-Bomb and C-Pig less so than the other two, but more so than their alnico counterparts. The Aftermath and Painkiller buck this trend and are middy despite being ceramic. All of them will generally give you a tighter low end than an alnico magnet with more of a crisp high end
What I would tend to think is that a C-Bomb can be like a Painkiller in a guitar where the mids might be too much for a PK.
The thing I'm not sure about is the walnut top.
Are you based in the UK? If so it might be practical to return the pickup within the time period if it doesn't do what you want. In that case I would order a Painkiller and exchange it for a C-Bomb if it is too middy. How close is the guitar to completion?
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Thanks, mates. You are helping me a lot educating me about BKPs and I'm learning many things. English is not my first language and I don't understand what a "hairy" pickup is, maybe similar to a crispy sound?. Anyways, if I am right, Agent Orange nailed it with "yes, but not noo much".
I think the C-bomb would be to bassy for a mahogany guitar, walnut top or not, but you know, some people say the real impact in sound of tonewoods come from the neck and especially the fingerboard, in that case, maple might make it a neutral guitar, a bit leaned over the bass side. I don't know if I make myself clear here. If it was a swamp ash guitar I'd go for the C-bomb no doubt because of my music preference and because the lows would be tamed by the light wood, but in mahogany I've been advised it will have a deep bottom I'm not sure I want.
It's still 8 months until the guitar arrives, 8 months to change my mind a hundred times :)
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Hairy refers to the treble detail, hard to describe but PKs and NBs are the BKPs that really have it.
Cold Sweats and Miracle Mans tend to be more toward the crispy sound in the highs, maybe the C-Hawk too but I can't remember what that sounds like in clips exactly
Here's someone comparing Painkiller, C-Bomb, and Emerald pickups.
The first two definitely have the 'hair', the Emerald doesn't.
The A-Bomb was designed to give the sound you hear on the Nailbomb album, which is definitely hairy. It's a kind of abrasiveness I guess. The C-Bomb is toned down in that respect as it has less mids, and that's where the hair resides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIrtChNDF6o
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Thank you, agent orange! :)
Maybe BKs aren't for me, I was considering a pair of 57/66 as a last resort if I didn't make up my mind, because I prefer passives atm.
Anyway, I should have talked about my experience with other pickups first. Maybe this could help understand what I am after. I have a CrunchLab/LiquidFire in a mahogany Ibanez which I love, especially the LF for solos. I also have the EMG 81/89 in another mahogany guitar, I like the 81 for metal and doing harmonics, but after a while it sounds a bit sterile and even. I also have a Nazgul/Sentient pair in a KM7. I like both a lot. The Nazgul is brutal, I love it, so much power, although a bit too much middle range, I think it's the best pickup for any kind of metal I have ever tried, not very versatile but does its job. I also tried the SD FullShred which I found very clear but lacking of character, or the Blackouts type1 which I found great for metal but too dark for mahogany.
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I would probably take a closer look at the Blackhawks if I were you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qacdnnbe2k
It might be the case that the alnico Black Hawk will be perfect for your guitar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvoZPM-sVRc
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That's precisely my first idea, the Alnico Blackhawk. My friend who has had almost all the modern BKP humbuckers told me the AV version are more bass-oriented, more loose and less metal than the C-hawks, better for slug, stoner or grunge. He said the C-hawks have a lot more mids and trebble. He said he wouldn't the alnico in any BKP except for the Blackhawks, and that those would be like the opposite of the C-pigs. Maybe you recommended them to me because I mentioned the 57/66 and the Blackhawks are supposed to be the most EMGish of the BKP catalogue. It's hard to know without actually trying oneself, I'm afraid I am to choose any and use the old trial-error formula here. Thanks a lot for your help :)
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The reason I recommended them is that (1) they are a good alternative to EMGs, (2) they have a lot of the good BKP qualities that people can't find in EMGs, & (3) the alnico version is less bright than an EMG and less likely to be too bright in your guitar.
EMGs are generally very bright pickups best suited to things like ESP Vipers and Schecter Hellraisers (solid mahogany guitars)
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The reason I recommended them is that (1) they are a good alternative to EMGs, (2) they have a lot of the good BKP qualities that people can't find in EMGs, & (3) the alnico version is less bright than an EMG and less likely to be too bright in your guitar.
EMGs are generally very bright pickups best suited to things like ESP Vipers and Schecter Hellraisers (solid mahogany guitars)
Thanks, bro. ;) Well, my guitar is going to be mahogany bodied, not the neck, and RAN Crushers are not as heavy-wood guitars as other brands/models so you are probably right and I should discard EMGs. Well, the decision now is between Painkillers, C-Nailbombs and Blackhawks, different beasts, but I still have to come to a decision. Maybe mentioning that I use blackstar amplification is also relevant. These amps are more dark than bright.
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the c-bomb might have some minor resemblance with the duncan custom sh-5 and the custom 5 sh-14, but it sounds nothing like a JB and has no 80's character to my ears
I agree with agent orange about the c-bomb feeling a little tamed compared to the a-bomb
it sounded unexpectedly warmer under gain in the same guitar, but more compressed than LOUD
personally, I liked it much better than the alnico version
I don't agree about the painkiller comparisons with emgs, but they do have that scratchy texture like the aftermath, which could be interpreted as an active pup common trait
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the c-bomb might have some minor resemblance with the duncan custom sh-5 and the custom 5 sh-14, but it sounds nothing like a JB and has no 80's character to my ears
I agree with agent orange about the c-bomb feeling a little tamed compared to the a-bomb
it sounded unexpectedly warmer under gain in the same guitar, but more compressed than LOUD
personally, I liked it much better than the alnico version
I don't agree about the painkiller comparisons with emgs, but they do have that scratchy texture like the aftermath, which could be interpreted as an active pup common trait
I agree. To clarify the painkiller doesn't sound like an emg 81 per se but its suitable for all the kind of music an emg 81 would be good if that makes sense.....and more. The sounds of later Judas Priest, Necrophagist etc those guys used actives and the painkiller covers that sound but with a lot more 'character' and 'grind' and clarity. Twiddly and brutal riffs.
Still saying c-bomb though for a brutal pup with more versatility :tongue: