Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: CommonCourtesy on June 19, 2015, 02:32:30 PM
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So far I've played 2 BK humbucker pickups in my main Les Paul band guitar. Its a Gibson Studio LP mahogany. Play in drop c with EB Not Even Slinky 12-56's.
First I put an Aftermath in which was alright, nice and tight but far too middy and washy. So I switched it out last year for a ceramic Nailbomb. The grunt and thump is back with plenty of low end. But I'm curious to know what else I can try.
My band are a mix of pop punk/post-hardcore with lots of power chords and chugging. There's some single string riffing stuff too. Definitely more of the modern sounding bands rather than the vintage.
I play through a Peavey 6505+ head too.
So I'm wondering what else might be worth considering as a bridge pickup?
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In my experience painkillers and black hawks work well in les pauls.
The painkiller will have tighter bass than the nailbomb with more full on and aggressive upper mids and treble. Very metal and abrasive.
The black hawk really has it's own things going on. Like an active pickup with a soul?! If you like 'chug' the black hawk cannot be beaten and that includes the warpig.
Never put a Juggeranut in a les paul but i'm certain it would work well.
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Yeah I would think an alnico Blackhawk might get you closest to where you want to go. Should be tight and aggressive enough for the chugging and articulate enough for the chords.
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Painkiller was something I looked at when I originally looked at changing out the stock pickup.
Will read up about Blackhawk, its a low output pickup though compared to the Nailbomb? Also I feel my guitar could be a bit brighter so it sits in the mid-range section, otherwise its fighting with the bass for clarity in the mix. That could just be amp EQ's though.
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DC-resistance is not the equivalent of output. As far as I remember the Blackhawk has a huge output.
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miracle man
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Ah, I see. You're using quite thick strings on your LP which really adds a lot of heft to the sound. Hence, the low end beef.
Painkiller may work well but I have heard a painkiller bridge get dark on a lump of mahogany extended range 7 string guitar. Shouldn't be such a problem on a 6 string.
I'm going to make a totally out there recommendation and you can do what you want with it. What about a Rebel Yell bridge? With an amp as aggressive as the 6505, you should be able to get the punk / hardcore tones you like but you'll get more clarity with an open sounding low end. The heavier strings will provided a substantial amount of heft to the tone and it will take the 'nailbomb' sort of a tone and shift it more into the mids and harmonics. Hey, it's worth a try. I really happen to like the Rebel Yell a lot and it may just work for you!
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Jimmy, which magnet did you have in the Black Hawk?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qacdnnbe2k
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The black hawk feels more high output than most pickups but i'm not sure whether it is or not. It feels higher output than the nail bomb. It feels similar in output to EMG's etc. EMG's with tone and girth but still tight.
I've tried the ceramic and alnico black hawks. I'd go for the alnico every time unless you're using really low tunings.
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Yeah the BH always sounds pretty hot in any clips I've seen of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvoZPM-sVRc
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Black Hawk is something I never considered cos I didn't think it'd go with the contemporary modern sound I want to achieve. Is drop c classed as a "really low tuning"? Its only a tone down from standard with a dropped 6th string. I've seen bands do that djenty thing in lower tunings but I'm not really going for that style, I love my chugs but its not really a djent thing.
Warpig is the highest output BKP have put out right? I wonder what would sound like in a LP standard which is considerably lighter than a standard.
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Warpigs generally sound good in brighter guitars. Mine sound pretty good in my SG. I don't know if it would suit your style. If you went for a Warpig I would think you'd be happier with the C-Pig. Mine's an A-Pig.
Good chance that the Painkiller is it for you though. I think I read somewhere that Painkillers aren't real found of real low tunings, but Drop C is just D Standard with the low string dropped a step.
This video compares the Painkiller to the 498T. Definitely a big improvement in tightness and clarity, and more aggressive sounding too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBIeMRz96Wg
This one compares an Aftermath with a Painkiller and a Warpig. Different guitars though (I believe the PK guitar is alder)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cECru2W24w4
PK set in a LP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68EFY0I-SxE
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Ah, I see. You're using quite thick strings on your LP which really adds a lot of heft to the sound. Hence, the low end beef.
Painkiller may work well but I have heard a painkiller bridge get dark on a lump of mahogany extended range 7 string guitar. Shouldn't be such a problem on a 6 string.
I'm going to make a totally out there recommendation and you can do what you want with it. What about a Rebel Yell bridge? With an amp as aggressive as the 6505, you should be able to get the punk / hardcore tones you like but you'll get more clarity with an open sounding low end. The heavier strings will provided a substantial amount of heft to the tone and it will take the 'nailbomb' sort of a tone and shift it more into the mids and harmonics. Hey, it's worth a try. I really happen to like the Rebel Yell a lot and it may just work for you!
Yeah it really adds a lot low end! The other guitarist has just started using the D'addario 12-60 set so I think I may have to make a little adjustment to the lowest 3 strings!
I wouldn't have thought Rebel Yell would give me that sound, its hard to pin down what kind of tone it is, its not punk, its not metal, its a bit like pop punk but with a heavier edge, high gain with that American flavour.
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Warpigs generally sound good in brighter guitars. Mine sound pretty good in my SG. I don't know if it would suit your style. If you went for a Warpig I would think you'd be happier with the C-Pig. Mine's an A-Pig.
Good chance that the Painkiller is it for you though. I think I read somewhere that Painkillers aren't real found of real low tunings, but Drop C is just D Standard with the low string dropped a step.
This video compares the Painkiller to the 498T. Definitely a big improvement in tightness and clarity, and more aggressive sounding too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBIeMRz96Wg
This one compares an Aftermath with a Painkiller and a Warpig. Different guitars though (I believe the PK guitar is alder)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cECru2W24w4
PK set in a LP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68EFY0I-SxE
Maybe its the fact that in the rehearsal room I have to use what's there instead of my beloved 6505+, I don't want to knacker out the tubes cranking it to 3 every week for 3 hours! All those reviews seem to be using Diezel or some kind of high quality gain amp.
So its probably not a fair judgement playing through a Marshall JCM2000 or 50 watt combo!
I'm wary the Warpig might give me an overly bass-ey tone which again might fight with the bassist in the mix.
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Warpigs do have a big bottom end. Which makes them great for a guitar lacking lows, such as an SG. I don't think they are quite what you are looking for as a pickup for a LP. I really didn't like the same set in my Explorer. Too bassy and dark.
I hear you on the Diezel. But just to give a sense of the difference that the guitar itself can make, here's a PK set in an SG through a Diezel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imPQUg1NK1I
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Hmm maybe not then, Warpig was something I thought about but Nailbomb jumped ahead when switching out the Aftermath. Just thought with the lighter weight of the guitar it'd give it more punch.
Channel 3 on a Diezel is one of the most erotic tones I've heard!! Unfortunately they cost £3k or somewhere thereabouts, though my 6505+ isn't a bad alternative at all, at half the price!
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To give an idea of how dark the Warpig was in my Explorer, I could get doomy sounds like Masters of Reality era Black Sabbath but not brighter sounds like old Venom in C# standard (both bands played in that tuning), regardless of amp EQ. In the SG I can get both by adjusting the amp EQ. Doom metal was a relatively bright setting in the Explorer compared to the SG. Also the cleans were really dark and warm sounding in the Explorer. They are fine in the SG.
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Yeah at rehearsals I always get "can you make your sound more trebley..." and "take some low end off" lol. Don't know if its the amp I'm using, the string gauge or the pick up. I'm taking my 6505+ to the next rehearsal as we're just blasting through the set for a gig a couple of times, will mess about with the EQ then, usually do an even steven amount of bass/mids/treble, 5/5/6 but I set the resonance up to 7/8.
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I usually have my resonance control at 4 or 5.
I get a reasonable amount of treble out of my Explorer with the A-Bomb in it; it was just the Warpig that was the problem in that guitar. I haven't played live with that guitar except at the Punx Picnic last year though, the rest of the gigs have been with my SG Junior (Stockholm), which is more cutting (mainly because it's an SG).
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Hmm I'll turn it down to 5/6 at the next rehearsal, see what Mr Bass man says about that haha. Think he complained at a gig once to take some low end off!
Where do you set your presence? I usually have it in the middle on 5 cos I'm never really sure what its meant to do to the tone.
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I have to play through different cabs sometimes, but when I play through my Orange cab the presence is generally around 6. If I turn the volume down or play through a different cab sometimes I will wind it up as high as 8 or 9 to compensate.
A friend of mine has his resonance and presence cranked right up, same with his low and high, and the mids scooped right out. Works for him (and he is in the rhythm role, the lead guitarist uses more mids) but it's very scooped sounding. I tend to use a lot more mids than him and back the bass off quite a bit. I do have an extra EQ pedal that I can use to get a scooped sound when I need it, I find that better than having it scooped all of the time
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Sounds about right, if I attempt to play at home on my marshall cab the volume rarely reaches about 1 so I whack the res and presence up. Live I think I turn it down a bit cos I can crank the amp volume which raises the bass.
Usually its a Marshall (or on a couple of occasions an Orange cab if I'm lucky) cab I am lent to play through live. Will try turning the presence higher than the resonance at the rehearsal, cos I know I will have the post-gain above 2.
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The Orange cabs have more bottom end (especially the straight-fronted ones) so you can afford to turn the resonance down
The resonance control was basically developed by Peavey as a way to compensate for changes between cabinets and rooms with regard to bass response, so it makes sense to adjust that first when you feel the cab sounds too 'boomy'
When I first got my amp and I only ever played it on 1 then I used to crank the presence as high as 9 or 10. That is just to compensate for the lack of punch at low volumes. As you turn up the post gain you need to back off the presence, at least until you get to 2.5 or 3, where the characteristics of the amp are in full voice and turning it up is just raising the volume
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I'll start with both at 5 and then twiddle about during the rehearsal, see where I end up. I never really find I have to turn anything up on the EQ about 7, pre-gain I turn up to 4 max on the lead channel, 2.5 on the rhythm to give some breakup on the 'clean' channel. Use a TS9 to tighten things up.
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Ok, so last night I had my amp with me at rehearsal. Made a huge difference in the sound, I cut through the mix ALOT better and it was a whole lot heavier.
Used a Marshall 1960A cab, and started with resonance/presence controls at 5. Throughout the set run throughs I raised and lowered each knob, but kept it around 5/6 most of the time, the tone sounded "thin" to me, but I didn't want to go too far in bass man territory by pushing it to 7/8. Pre-gain was 3.5 and volume was 2.5, on 3 it was already louder than the drum cymbals lol.
Maybe at tonight's show it'll work cos the bass will cover the lower frequencies so I sit nicely in the mid section, whilst the lead guitarist has the higher trebley tones covered. Hopefully the sound man will encourage me to whack the post-gain up!
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Setting up tones for a 2 guitar band is definitely a challenging task. Being the only Electric means you can dial in as a huge and phat of a tone as you want and you will be heard. With the two players, you need be very careful where you sit in the mix and having two distinct tones is actually beneficial. Generally, when I play in my metal band, we dial in very mid focused tones that are quite dry and we have individual rigs. My rhythm guitarist uses my old 2 channel Dual and I use his Mark V, both amps are generally EQ'd with a lot of midrange and the bass tamed quite a bit. Today, the rhythm guitarist was using my OD pedal to tighten up the recto and it helped out quite a bit.
With his Rhoads V with a Dimebucker in the bridge, he ran the OD with the volume up but with the tone down, but for his drop tuned 7 string, he turned up the tone quite a bit. I find that a Drop C# tuned 6 string is still quite mid focused but with a mahogany 7 string, it gets dark very quickly and the boost is almost required to keep things tight and focused.
I'm glad you figured out the 'resonance' thing. Usually, those low frequencies are awesome for bedroom playing or practicing, and work best live when they are shut off.
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Yeah, I mean we both play different guitars and amps, and handle opposite ends of the spectrum, so I think it works well. Just have to be careful not to go too close to bass player territory when tuning that low. I think I will leave my resonance and presence around 5/6, unless I get told to turn down. Bass and mids always on 5, treble 6. Resist temptation to turn pre-gain above 3.5 as well.
Didn't help last night we didn't have a proper soundcheck and was constantly being hassled to "get ready to go" by the soundguy to play in 10 minutes, he don't seem to realise I have one set of hands and the gear storage room is miles from the stage!!