Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
At The Back => Time Out => Topic started by: willo on March 27, 2006, 12:42:47 AM
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Hi, basically, I'm not happy with how my current PC records, at all. But then, that's probably because I run my computer with just the standard DELL soundcard :D
However, in my old PC (currently at home whilst I'm at uni), I have one of these:
http://www.computermusic.co.uk/reviews/sbl/sblmain.asp
I know those are getting a bit long in the tooth, but it would improve the sound quality, wouldn't it?
But my problem is that the front drive bit, with some of the inputs - it goes in a blank CD drive space - won't fit into my current PC. I don't have any free spaces!
So to anyone who might know, will the soundcard function 100% correctly without that front panel section (you can hopefully see on that link that it has a chipboard connected to it)?
Also, would it be worth the hassle? And how hard is it to install this kind of soundcard to a DELL or similar type PC?
Thanks guys! :)
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But my problem is that the front drive bit, with some of the inputs - it goes in a blank CD drive space - won't fit into my current PC. I don't have any free spaces!
So to anyone who might know, will the soundcard function 100% correctly without that front panel section (you can hopefully see on that link that it has a chipboard connected to it)?
Also, would it be worth the hassle? And how hard is it to install this kind of soundcard to a DELL or similar type PC?
Thanks guys! :)
First, it obviously won't perform 100% perfectly as it is missing the enhanced section, but if you mean will the PCI card perform correctly without the enhanced bit, then yes, I can't see why not. It will function as a basic sound card.
It isn't difficult to install a PCI card to any computer, provided you have the available slots. (PCI slots; the white ones)
HTH
rgds
Ol.
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...but it probably won't be much of an improvement, either. There's a LOT of cheap computer recording gear around now: For about $100.00 (that's CDN so convert away) you can get a Guitar Port
http://www.line6.com/guitarport/
or check out some of the M-Audio USB interfaces, any of which will give you much better sound than your old soundblaster.
:D
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perhaps get one of the later creative cards as they come with external boxes. I've got the Audigy2 ZS (Platinum I think).
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Get a Tascam us122. Fan-bloody-tastic bit of kit!!!!
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Interesting, interesting - and thanks all for your replies. To be honest, for a while I've been thinking about saving up for a Digidesign M-Box, you know the external units with the Pro Tools LE?
What I was wondering is if anyone who uses the M Box, or similar external unit like the aformentioned Tascam USB unit, is the quality of the recording through the unit limited by the soundcard/apparatus on your own PC?
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The Tascam becomes your soundcard.
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I use the Mbox Willo and i love mine. It has allowed me to get used to Pro Tools and also records at very high quality.
You can check out some of my clips, they arent going to be the best recordings you can get from them, but it will give you an idea what you can get out of them.
Try finding one on ebay ( Mbox 1 ) you might find a steal.
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The Tascam becomes your soundcard.
Sounds interesting.. I want a good external soundcard for my laptop as the stock ones cr@p. I thought with Tascam though you might just be paying for the name and not getting a good piece of kit..
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I use the Mbox Willo and i love mine. It has allowed me to get used to Pro Tools and also records at very high quality.
You can check out some of my clips, they arent going to be the best recordings you can get from them, but it will give you an idea what you can get out of them.
Try finding one on ebay ( Mbox 1 ) you might find a steal.
:D Hi mate is that a real drum kit on your tracks ? or is it programable kits off of the Pro tools ? Loved the sound. How easy is it to use the Pro tools
:D 8)
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All my drums are from a program called Drum Kit From Hell ( drummer from Meshuggah ). They are supposedly thought upon as the most advanced drum program you can get ( Drum Kit from Hell Superior which has way more options and drum kits ).
If your computer can handle it i would go for drum kit from hell superior ( you need a huge hard drive and powerful pc ). DFH2 is good, but it eats up even more resources in Pro Tools ( a problem which is being fixed as we speak ).
To hear what Drum Kit from Hell superior is capable of lsiten to Catch 33 ( which was done with this program ) and also www.myspace.com/tesseract and www.myspace.com/thesafetyfire ( my band ).
The great thing about it, is that you can hook it up to a electric kit through midi and trigger the dfh sounds. So if you do get a chance to get a real drummers feel then you can use it still.
Anymore questions just ask.
PS. Yeah it is very easy to use. There are the simlified GM Kits which are mapped the same way as Midi kits are, which is the most hassle free. Then there are the more complex kits with more cymbals, mic bleeds etc.
As for inputting data, you have a pencil and you just draw in where you want you beats to be. That or use GP4 files and import the drums from someone elses hard work ( if you want premade beats, or beats from songs ).
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Hey Lepers, and Donovan (with the Tascam), do these units (the M box and Tascam) then become your soundcards? Is audio from your computer (i.e. MP3 files etc) played through them out to your amp/speakers?
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you can make the mbox if you want to, but you dont have to. I dont as its just easier that way ( using it on a laptop ) so you can just move it round without the need of the mbox to listen to audio.
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I dont know if you have to with the Tascam but I did.
The tascam unit is a babe,solid and high quality, I did a lot of research before hand and I was going to buy a whole lot of recording gear but the guy at the shop said that if my P.C could handle it , I would be better off doing things through that. If you have a good drum sampler (DFH Superior...god of drum samples) then the Tascam combined with...I use Cubase SX3...will do everything else. I am not putting the Mbox down but looking at the price you would be better off going on EBay and getting a Tascam for £60-£70. This is just my opinion but I don't fall for cheap nasty s**t easily, I dont have a huge income so I like to make sure what I buy is right and the Tascam one me over.
NOTE!!! Spec for DFH Superior is ..At least 1gb of Ram and 40 free GB on your HD!!!
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I've got an E-MU 1820 which has a soundcard that replaces your existing one and then you connect it to a breakout box via firewire which has loads of input/outputs, two XLR inputs with their own gain controls and phantom power. It's pretty good, but I'm still getting my head around it all (still!) That all uses Cu-Base but can use other applications.
I was going to get Groove Agent 2 for drums, does anyone else use it and is it good?
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Dont get groove agent...get DFH!!!!
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Dont get groove agent...get DFH!!!!
I'm sure it's out of this world sound wise but i don't want to be sitting at my pc programming it for ages, or isn't it like that? I just want to get some drums down and go ape shite on me guitar!
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Maybe groove agent might be more for you then. I think that it is supposed to be pretty good. Let me know if you get it.
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hahaahaa shaaaaaaame on youpc program-drum-programmers!!!!
i have it all built in to my POCKET-SIZED Zoom ps-04... 8) :twisted:
although i have a slight problem... in that.... i have absolutely no idea whatsoever how to use it....
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NOTE!!! Spec for DFH Superior is ..At least 1gb of Ram and 40 free GB on your HD!!!
:D F***ing Hell !!! Whats it do with all that space :?
:D 8)
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40 gb of sound my friend!!!
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NOTE!!! Spec for DFH Superior is ..At least 1gb of Ram and 40 free GB on your HD!!!
:D F***ing Hell !!! Whats it do with all that space :?
:D 8)
It makes it sound like a real kit.
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:D Doe`s it allready have pre programmed patterns in it that are useable ?
I`m seriously thinking about getting a cheap Laptop then beefing up the RAM & useing it as a recording unit only. That would mean i could move the whole thing around espeicialy for recording guitars from real amps... :D
:D 8)
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So is drumkit from hell just samples, or a sequencer aswell? I've been confused about that for ages :lol:
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DFH is used in conjuction with your chosen recording software...or at least thats how I use it. If you buy a copy I think that there are pre done tracks on the users site.
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NOTE!!! Spec for DFH Superior is ..At least 1gb of Ram and 40 free GB on your HD!!!
:D F***ing Hell !!! Whats it do with all that space :?
:D 8)
It's all samples of tons of different kits struck at different velocities and recorded through multiple mic sources. Takes a fair old amount of space but sounds bloody awesome. :)
Just check this out: http://www.muttleyville.org/downloads/mp3/UnderAGlassMoon-DrumIntro.mp3
That was one evenings work with no mixing done at all (I was using this as a way of learning how to use DFHS), just all of the drum mics bounced down with a bit of stereo placement. Would sound even more awesome with a bit of mixing. :)
Muttley
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NOTE!!! Spec for DFH Superior is ..At least 1gb of Ram and 40 free GB on your HD!!!
:D F***ing Hell !!! Whats it do with all that space :?
:D 8)
It's all samples of tons of different kits struck at different velocities and recorded through multiple mic sources. Takes a fair old amount of space but sounds bloody awesome. :)
Just check this out: http://www.muttleyville.org/downloads/mp3/UnderAGlassMoon-DrumIntro.mp3
That was one evenings work with no mixing done at all (I was using this as a way of learning how to use DFHS), just all of the drum mics bounced down with a bit of stereo placement. Would sound even more awesome with a bit of mixing. :)
Muttley
They sound awesome. So what program do you use for the sequencing? This whole BK album things got me interested in getting a good sequencer and making good clips again!
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NOTE!!! Spec for DFH Superior is ..At least 1gb of Ram and 40 free GB on your HD!!!
:D F***ing Hell !!! Whats it do with all that space :?
:D 8)
It's all samples of tons of different kits struck at different velocities and recorded through multiple mic sources. Takes a fair old amount of space but sounds bloody awesome. :)
Just check this out: http://www.muttleyville.org/downloads/mp3/UnderAGlassMoon-DrumIntro.mp3
That was one evenings work with no mixing done at all (I was using this as a way of learning how to use DFHS), just all of the drum mics bounced down with a bit of stereo placement. Would sound even more awesome with a bit of mixing. :)
Muttley
They sound awesome. So what program do you use for the sequencing? This whole BK album things got me interested in getting a good sequencer and making good clips again!
I use Cakewalk SONAR 5 Producer Edition, and just program the drums in the MIDI piano roll view.
SONAR is quite pricey, but well worth the money IMHO.
Actually, I've got an old (legit I might add) copy of Cubasis VST 3.0 which you can have if you want (I haven't used it in years). Might get you started. Just pop me a PM with your address and I'll bung it in the post this weekend.
Muttley
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:D How easy is it to programme DFH ? Can you do really complex rolls that actually sound real ?
The problem i have with Drum machines is that all the rolls sound unbelievable, fake. You can tell it`s a drum box a mile off.
The sample of DFH that you gave us to listen to sounds great. Doesn`t it get abit complicated if your having to decide what kind of velocity or where a drum pad is hit ?
How do you programme it in to your PC ? Do you need a Piano style keyboard or drum pad ?
:D 8)
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:D How easy is it to programme DFH ? Can you do really complex rolls that actually sound real ?
It's quite straightforward, I just do it in a MIDI piano roll view, and I've got a drum-map for SONAR so instead of notes on the keyboard I have the name of the drum (and whether it's a left or right-handed/footed hit)
(http://www.muttleyville.org/images/junk/drumz.png)
The problem i have with Drum machines is that all the rolls sound unbelievable, fake. You can tell it`s a drum box a mile off.
That's usually because stuff is too precise, or that it's the same sound played repeatedly.
DFHS has several hits recorded at different strengths and with both left and right hands/feet (that's why the install is so damn huge), these are mapped to different velocity ranges. So for example if you program a snare roll with all 127 velocities, it still won't play the same sample, it'll either randomise them or loop through several different samples, so it sounds a lot more human already. Top that off with clever time-slipping and it sounds much better than normal drum machines. I also tend to subtley change the tempo of the track at certain times, for example when a song goes into a chorus I might speed it up a few clicks to mimic the way real drummers do to emphasise parts.
The sample of DFH that you gave us to listen to sounds great. Doesn`t it get abit complicated if your having to decide what kind of velocity or where a drum pad is hit ?
You don't have to worry about where the drum is hit, and for the velocities I just write the part in one velocity and then use some tools build into SONAR to randomise the velocities on specific drums (for example, you could randomise the snare one way, and the hi-hats another, etc.) between certain ranges, and then go in and tweak certain hits manually if I feel they need it.
I also concentrate on mimicing a real drummer (no, not by drooling on my desk ;)) and ensuring I don't program anything that's physically impossible, and also making sure I use the correct hand/feet hits, etc.
How do you programme it in to your PC ? Do you need a Piano style keyboard or drum pad ?
:D 8)
I have a MIDI keyboard, so I can tap in beats in real (or step) time, but usually I use the mouse/keyboard and judicious use of cut & paste. ;)
I'm also trying to build up an archive of interesting rolls and fills in MIDI format that I can import. Best way to get these is download some drum tabs for songs you like I find. :)
Muttley
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That sonar program actually looks pretty easy to use from that screenshot.. I'm probably wrong though. Got me GAS'ing for a bigger hard drive and DFH/Sonar now :lol: Is the cubase screen anything like that or not?
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That sonar program actually looks pretty easy to use from that screenshot.. I'm probably wrong though. Got me GAS'ing for a bigger hard drive and DFH/Sonar now :lol: Is the cubase screen anything like that or not?
Most MIDI apps work in a similar way with the piano roll thing. Considering how much stuff SONAR can do, it's remarkably easy to use I think.
Cakewalk also do something called Guitar Tracks Pro, which is specifically geared towards guitarist/songwriters. It's limited to a maximum of 32 audio tracks in each project (should be ample for most stuff) but is cheaper than SONAR (I think it uses the same audio engine underneath though). Not used it myself, but if it's even half as polished as SONAR it should be really good. :)
http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/GuitarTracksPro/default.asp
EDIT: Actually, having looked at that page in more depth it doesn't seem too obvious about whether it can do MIDI or not... :?
Muttley
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:D Ok where can i get hold of a copy of DFH ? Are there any forums/support groups where you can exchange Drum rolls/beats with each other ?
Thanx for all the info so far :D
:D 8)
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:D Ok where can i get hold of a copy of DFH ? Are there any forums/support groups where you can exchange Drum rolls/beats with each other ?
Thanx for all the info so far :D
:D 8)
I've used these guys quite a bit for music gear, and bought my DFHS from them. They seem a bit cheaper than somewhere like Soho Soundhouse and Turnkey, etc:
http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/?keyword=drumkit+from+hell&Search=Go&page=shop%2Fsearch_results&manufacturer_id=0
Pretty fast service too, next day usually.
I'd just like to say that I'm in no way affiliated with them, just a customer who's bought from them a few times.
Muttley
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:D Thanks Matey !! :D
:D 8)
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Are there any forums/support groups
Forgot to say, there's an official forum here: http://www.toontrack.com/forum/
Can't remember if you have to register the software before you gain access, but it's a good idea to register as they have bug-fixes and stuff for download too (plus bonus files like the drum maps I mentioned)
Muttley