Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: schneidas on July 30, 2015, 11:41:12 AM

Title: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on July 30, 2015, 11:41:12 AM
Ok I've been doing a lot of research, spoke to Ben and heard a few clips. Turns out my Les Paul Standard will be happiest with one set of those. Music played will be 80s and 90s Iron Maiden and a few other 80s and 90s Rock stuff.
i first thought RY's. But the guitars is slightly on the brighter side so I thought a ser of HD's could be better suited. But I also read very good things about the CS's regarding the tones I seek (amps are hot rodded Marshalls - I play only distorted). Each time I'm set on a pickup the other one seems nicer again.
What do you reckon?
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on July 30, 2015, 11:42:29 AM
Sorry for the typos - was writing on my phone :)
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: Dave Sloven on July 30, 2015, 12:12:19 PM
You might be happiest with a CS bridge & HD neck

I imagine that might be the best combo for what the sounds you want
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: ericsabbath on July 30, 2015, 01:48:59 PM
check this holy diver video:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32854.0

that's straight into a dan gower hot rodded marshall, but the diver benefits a lot from booster pedals
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: Telerocker on July 30, 2015, 03:15:56 PM
I tend to say Divers too. What amp(s) you have?
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on July 30, 2015, 03:43:47 PM
Thanks so far... that's really a tough one  :smiley:

Amp wise, I'm running a Kemper amp with models of JCM800 and other hot rodded Marshalls, like a JVM and JCM2000 etc.

I was set on Rebel yells, but then the Holy Diver appeared and now I'm even contemplating the Cold Sweat / HD combo... choices, choices  :shocked:
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on July 30, 2015, 04:08:06 PM
Let me throw in one more pickup set that just came to my attention: the Juggernaut.
Could that one work for my purpose? As the ultimate Ceramic meets Alnico solution?

I mean I hate DJent and all the modern metal music is not my thing - I still stay in the 80s and 90s Rock and Metal - so could the Juggernaut work for my purpose or is this one DJENT and similar only?
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: ericsabbath on July 30, 2015, 04:26:33 PM
didn't play the juggernaut, but it seems like an evolution from the aftermath, tweaked for more versatility
but it also seems to keep the whole modern voicing
probably would sound good, but not really the classic rock/metal type of sound
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: ericsabbath on July 30, 2015, 04:30:57 PM
by the way, I played a 2005 non-chambered les paul standard loaded with VHII's through a kemper and it sounded absolutely amazing, specially with the marshall type profiles
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: Slartibartfarst42 on July 31, 2015, 12:14:42 AM
If you want Iron Maiden then a Holydiver in the neck will nail it. My second choice would be an Emerald neck.

For the bridge it's more difficult. The Holydiver is 80's Metal but too smooth for Maiden's sound. The Cold Sweat is closer but too bright and the Rebel Yell isn't right either. The trouble is that BKP don't really do a Super Distortion alternative and it certainly isn't a Juggernaut. For 80's Metal, I'd go Holydiver but it's not obviously Maiden.
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: Dave Sloven on July 31, 2015, 04:12:53 AM
I personally don't think the CS will be too bright in a Les Paul for '80s metal.  I have one in an SG and while the high end can be crispy it's not icepicky. In a Les Paul it should be toned down somewhat relative to my SG

With the CS you can get good NWOBHM and Judas Priest sounds, plus good early thrash metal tones.  It's not as 'hair metal' as the RY or as 'power metal' as the HD

I stick by my CS/HD recommendation for these sounds
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: darkbluemurder on July 31, 2015, 09:08:12 AM
You might be happiest with a CS bridge & HD neck

I imagine that might be the best combo for what the sounds you want

My vote would also go to this exact combination.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on July 31, 2015, 01:42:30 PM
Thanks guys, I guess it boils down to either HD/HD or CS/HD.

The Rebel Yell bridge is not suitable? I would imagine it will be tighter and brighter than the HD?
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: richard on July 31, 2015, 01:57:21 PM
Rebel Yell bridge is wonderful. It is bright but it's not harsh. The top end smooths out into a singing, sustaining voice when you pile on the gain. It's very finicky about height - I played around with mine for weeks before I got what I wanted out of it but I've been gigging my RY guitar for a few years now and have never been happier with my sound. Gets lots of compliments. And it loves Marshalls.
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: darthphineas on August 04, 2015, 02:13:10 PM
of the 3 originally mentioned, the HD would have the softest high end, the CS would have the sharpest high end and the RY would fit in between.
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on August 04, 2015, 02:32:10 PM
Where would the bridge Alnico5 Nailbomb would be placed? Would this one be the ticket to 80/90 Iron Maiden and Rock?
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: ericsabbath on August 04, 2015, 02:50:39 PM
all the mentioned pickups will do that, including the vhII
don't be too precious about it
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: Dave Sloven on August 04, 2015, 02:56:40 PM
Where would the bridge Alnico5 Nailbomb would be placed? Would this one be the ticket to 80/90 Iron Maiden and Rock?

Somewhere between 'NO!' and 'not really' on this one, depending on what guitar you put it in.

I've had an A-Bomb and a Cold Sweat in my SG; the CS can do Maiden and '80s rock, the NB could not.  The A-Bomb can do Accept, AC/DC, Poison Idea, and other 'raspier' guitar sounds from the '80s, and generally sounds more aggressive than any of those bands but it can do something that basically sounds like them.  It can't do the smoother sounds of the '80s.  At least not well, and not in my experience.

Out of the three you mention it is closest to the RY but much more bottom and low mids, and hairier.
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: m t soule on August 04, 2015, 07:09:49 PM
I got the HD bridge in a maple neck rg550 and its really good for maiden. Thats what i use it most for.
In the  neck i have a vhii which i love a little more that my CS neck. However i never really acknowledged whats sounds they nail because they just sound good wether they nail a sound or not.
The RY bridge is really lovely however you may find the bottom not fat enough fer maiden n the likes
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: Slartibartfarst42 on August 05, 2015, 08:24:12 AM
If it was a darker Les Paul I'd have said Cold Sweat for the bridge but as you say it's brighter I'm more hesitant. The Super Distortion that Maiden use a lot carries a fair bit of bottom end, which is offset to a degree by their use of alder guitars. Your guitar is presumably darker than alder but is it enough to make the Cold Sweat viable? The Holydiver in this video may help as it's always impressed me with the tone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T26RqvH3YBA

I'd also point out that Holydivers LOVE Overdrive pedals and that gives you access to a greater range of tones. If the guitar is brighter, I still think either a Holydiver set or a Holydiver bridge and Emerald neck.
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on August 05, 2015, 10:41:15 AM
Thanks guys, in the end - I think I settled on a full HD-set (seeing as my Les Paul is on the slightly brighter side)
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on August 07, 2015, 02:18:58 PM
Ok last thing here. I still have another few days left to decide.
Although I was set on the HD set, I'm now also contemplating a BD bridge / HD neck combo (the HD neck being set in stone).

How does the BD bridge differ from the HD bridge? They seem tonally similar (both mid heavy). Might the BD bridge be a better HD bridge in that it has the missing highs of the latter?
Just been reading a few threads and the BD bridge seems to get praise only
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: ericsabbath on August 07, 2015, 06:06:01 PM
having replaced one with the other in the same guitar, I wouldn't say the BD is any brighter than the HD
it's just less compressed
the diver sustains a little better and the dog sounds more spanky
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: Slartibartfarst42 on August 07, 2015, 07:47:33 PM
The BD and HD are certainly related in some ways but the HD is smooth whereas the BD is a bit more growly. I think the BD would probably be more versatile.
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on August 08, 2015, 04:59:22 PM
Thanks guys.

What exactly does "more spanky" mean? (sorry, I sometimes get lost with all these descriptions)
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on August 10, 2015, 08:11:35 AM
Ok one more: Abraxas vs Holy Diver.

Am I correct to assume that the Abraxas will have more highs & be more open than the Holy Diver?
The Diver having more mids and be more compressed with a more modern voice?

Anyone has compared both pickups in the same guitar?
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: ericsabbath on August 10, 2015, 01:22:11 PM
Thanks guys.

What exactly does "more spanky" mean? (sorry, I sometimes get lost with all these descriptions)

a stronger picking attack

Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: richard on August 10, 2015, 02:54:58 PM
You're asking about an enormously different range of pickups. Most of the pups from the Contemporary range are going to be more 'modern' sounding than the Abraxas. I would say that the RY and the Abraxas are somewhere in the middle ground. The RY is more modern sounding but does well with classic rock. The Abraxas has it's roots in more vintage tones but the extra output means it can handle hard rock/older style metal as well. I think you need to narrow your choice a little more i.e. are you inclined more to modern tones than vintage tones ?
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: Dave Sloven on August 11, 2015, 01:28:02 AM
I would just go for the HD set here.  I think it has the best chance of covering all the bases to an acceptable extent
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: Slartibartfarst42 on August 11, 2015, 07:12:21 AM
Agreed, I think you're starting  to overcomplicate things. If you want that smooth 80's Metal tone the Holydiver is best. If you want something more versatile, vintage and not too bright, look at the Black Dog, Abraxas ane Crawler.
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: ericsabbath on August 11, 2015, 12:23:09 PM
I can't see the holy diver not working in a les paul
I even had it in a imbuya top/brazilian mahog body and neck/brazilian rosewood les paul that was a pretty dark sounding guitar
the holy diver sounded absolutely amazing in it, and that was a dark, bassy and very low mid heavy guitar, even for a les paul
unless you want a really bright tone or a more vintage approach, you'll be fine with it
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on August 11, 2015, 12:25:12 PM
Thanks guys - I guess it was just fear that the HD would not have enough highs to sound clear - and I had fear of it being a bit muffled sounding.

Since you confirmed that that's not the case - I will go this route!!!
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: richard on August 11, 2015, 12:39:19 PM
Good luck. Let us know how it works out.
Title: Re: Holy Divers, Rebel Yells or Cold Sweats
Post by: schneidas on August 11, 2015, 01:17:57 PM
Will do :)
Thanks again