Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum

Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: ztevie on September 22, 2015, 09:14:40 PM

Title: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 22, 2015, 09:14:40 PM
Hey!
I've got a Vigier Shawn Lane. Alder body, maple neck bolt on, rosewood board, HSH. I'm thinking of getting new Hb's for bridge and neck.
I like the bridge pup to be tight and clear without mud. But not harsh either. I like pretty midheavy tones.
For the neck I like similar characteristics. I often found neck pups being muddy, though i like singing, creamy quality for solos higher up on the neck.
Music style is from rock to lighter metal, but mostly instrumental progressive stuff a'la Sfogli. Love his tone!
I've done some research and got hung up on Holy Diver/Emerald, or maybe a Juggernaut set. But the latter may be to fat for my taste as some reviews mention they're pretty fat altough they also mention clarity.
So, am i in the ballpark here?
I don't need monstrous power, but they need to be enough to do some chunky palm muting and screaming solo stuff.
Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Kiichi on September 22, 2015, 10:18:59 PM
I actually think your idea with the HD/EM is pretty much spot on. It should just do what you listed. At least right now I canīt fully think of a set that might do it better, but that is what the others here are for.
Juggs I agree could easily be a little much, especially perhaps too modern.

For the bridge the only alternative I could suggest would be the Crawler. More middy, full, and classic than the HD, though less tight (meaning it is still tight by most standards, but for a BKP low on the scale). If your guitar is on the bright side it can work here too. Versatile thing that.

Interested to hear from the others right now.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 22, 2015, 11:26:56 PM
Thanks!
Yeah, HD/Emerald seems to fit from what I've read. What kind of guitar do you have yours in? I saw you've got them from your signature.
I've also liked reviews/clips regarding Rebel Yells. I was into those for a while but decided against them cause everyone talking about how they really fits best in a darker LP style guitar. I'm not against bright pickups at all though, but afraid they may be too harsh and icepicky in mine. It is a pretty bright guitar, but it's not over the top bright thanks to the rw board and alder body.
The only BK'S I've used before is miracle man and trilogy. I liked MM, they had a really nice growl and tightness to them but lacked a bit midrange to my ears.  The trilogy is one of the nicest single coils I've experienced.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Telerocker on September 22, 2015, 11:47:45 PM
HD/Emerald is a fine combo for that guitar. Juggernauts sound more contemporary.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Dave Sloven on September 23, 2015, 01:38:12 AM
I would go HD/Em or HD set.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: darkbluemurder on September 23, 2015, 10:38:26 AM
HD bridge seems to be a no-brainer. I have not played the EM neck so I cannot comment on that. I would probably go for the HD set.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Kiichi on September 23, 2015, 03:02:56 PM
Thanks!
Yeah, HD/Emerald seems to fit from what I've read. What kind of guitar do you have yours in? I saw you've got them from your signature.
A 7 string superstrat from Dean Guitars. Mahagony body, maple neck, rosewood board.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 23, 2015, 09:16:56 PM
When playing solo on the bridge i always have to compromise with tone. First i like creamy, singing stuff when playing high up on unwound strings. But if i dial in a too creamy tone, playing fast runs on the wound strings will blur notes together in a mush. That's why its important to have a tight and clear bass response.
On the neck, creamy tones is easy to get due to the characteristics of the neck position itself. So here i like a brighter pup to avoid the worst mush.
I know, i want it all at once, but maybe i would get the best of both worlds with HD/Emerald.
I can't help thinking if Rebel Yells could work without being over the top trebley...
I've sure got some thinking to do.  :)
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Dave Sloven on September 24, 2015, 02:43:02 AM
From what you say about neck pickups I would tend to go for the HD set rather than HD/Em.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 24, 2015, 06:36:09 AM
From what you say about neck pickups I would tend to go for the HD set rather than HD/Em.

Oh? I was under the impression the Emerald was a bit brighter than the HD and therefore might suit my needs better?
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Dave Sloven on September 24, 2015, 07:05:14 AM
No, that charts only applies to the bridge. The Emerald set has a strong contrast between bridge and neck.  The HD neck is one of the brighter neck pickups in the range, again in contrast with the relatively warm bridge.

I have no idea why BKP can't provide EQ charts for both pickups, it would prevent a lot of confusion
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 24, 2015, 08:24:43 AM
No, that charts only applies to the bridge. The Emerald set has a strong contrast between bridge and neck.  The HD neck is one of the brighter neck pickups in the range, again in contrast with the relatively warm bridge.

I have no idea why BKP can't provide EQ charts for both pickups, it would prevent a lot of confusion

Aha, ok... Thanks, great info!
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 24, 2015, 01:28:16 PM
Just to research all possibilities:
What is the Cold Sweat neck like? Fluid sounds just up my alley, but is it tight enough on the wound strings without blurring together when playing fast stuff? I know it's supposedly had very weak mid but maybe as a shred solo pup it will be nice? A'la Sfogli tone...
How does it differ from HD neck?
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: JimmyMoorby on September 24, 2015, 02:20:47 PM
If you're into that virtuoso/shred thing any thing from Shawn Lane to Vai to Petrucci etc etc i'd just go for the Juggs.
Tight, super clear, dripping with harmonics and just hot enough.  I think if you listen to enough juggernaut demos you'll get the idea.

Cold sweat neck is crystal clear and can handle shred but in a live situation I want more cut and 'weight' so again i'd prefer some thing like the jugg neck.  The aftermath neck is awesome for shred but little else imo...
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 24, 2015, 03:33:08 PM
If you're into that virtuoso/shred thing any thing from Shawn Lane to Vai to Petrucci etc etc i'd just go for the Juggs.
Tight, super clear, dripping with harmonics and just hot enough.  I think if you listen to enough juggernaut demos you'll get the idea.

Cold sweat neck is crystal clear and can handle shred but in a live situation I want more cut and 'weight' so again i'd prefer some thing like the jugg neck.  The aftermath neck is awesome for shred but little else imo...

Thanks! Yeah I've had my eyes on juggernaut aswell, but being considered very fat i thought that the neck especially might get blurry on D, A and low E strings. I'm not into Lane at all. Sfogli, Petrucci is up my alley. I like fast runs with big bends. That's why i need clear and articulate pups that still retain cream.
Popped the question to support and Bens advice was Cold Sweat neck and Nailbomb bridge. He thought that CS neck was a no brainer but Jugg, Painkiller, Aftermath would be too hot and modern when paired with CS.

Edit: looking at specs the nailbomb seems hotter than Jugg? Maybe it's the more classic character of the nailbomb that suits CS better.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Dave Sloven on September 24, 2015, 03:57:39 PM
If you like the Jugg neck I would seriously go for the HD set.

The Jugg neck is a beefed up version of the HD neck.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 24, 2015, 04:04:48 PM
If you like the Jugg neck I would seriously go for the HD set.

The Jugg neck is a beefed up version of the HD neck.

I don't know if i like the Jugg neck. :)
But being described as very fat I'm afraid it will be a bit mushy on the low end, like i find most neck pickups.
Well noone said it should be easy finding ultimate pups.
Right now I'm considering HD set or CS neck with a hotter bridge.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: JimmyMoorby on September 24, 2015, 04:35:25 PM
I don't think the juggeranut neck mushes up on lower notes but then again depends on the player, their ears and the amp and all that malarky.
In fairness the cold sweat neck is a very safe choice.

Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 24, 2015, 07:05:25 PM
Yeah, it's a fine line between creamy sustainrich tone and tight/clear.
I use a Axe Fx II by the way, so the tweaking possibilities are endless.
Still i feel some pups are much better than others regarding this.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Alfi27 on September 24, 2015, 07:18:54 PM
If you like the Jugg neck I would seriously go for the HD set.

The Jugg neck is a beefed up version of the HD neck.
Actually, the Jugg neck is based on the VHII according to Misha himself, which he always thought was the ultimate neck pickup. They tweaked it a bit to match the Jugg bridge a bit better EQ and output wise, but "keeping all of the positive characteristics of the VHII" as he wrote on the sevenstring forum: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/dealers-group-buys/249770-bkp-juggernaut-set.html
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Dave Sloven on September 25, 2015, 12:18:37 AM
Ah sorry, I got those mixed up.  I must have been thinking about the bridge.

You might want to consider an A-bomb / Rebel Yell combo if you want a hotter bridge.  This is a very good combination.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 25, 2015, 12:52:17 PM
Nailbomb was Bens suggestion for the bridge. Rebel Yell neck I've also been looking at, but kind of dismissed it due to all reviews talking about it as too bright for anything than LP type guitars. But then again the neck position is dark toned by nature, so... Maybe it's an option.
How would RY neck differ from CS neck powerwise? From the tonechart RY seems much middier but that's not a bad thing when fitting a solo in the mix.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Dave Sloven on September 25, 2015, 06:04:39 PM
As I think I said somewhere else the tonecharts are bridge only. They give zero information about the neck pickup

Rebel Yell neck is basically a brighter version of a Cold Sweat neck.

It matches well with the A-Bomb as the A-Bomb and the Rebel Yell bridge are closely related pickups.  One of the forum members had a RY set in a chambered Les Paul but found the RY to be lacking balls.  He replaced it with an A-Bomb in the bridge slot and kept the RY neck and has been singing the praises of that combo ever since.

Have  listen to the clips.  You can generally pick out when someone is using the neck pickups in those clips.

This video shows the Rebel Yell set, and you can clearly hear/see when the neck pickup is engaged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_kDhMwAluI
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 25, 2015, 08:12:01 PM
Yeah, you mentioned that before.
BKP should indeed include tone charts for the neck aswell. Shouldn't be too much work.

Like always when researching pickups I get more confused the more i listen to clips and read reviews. But i know myself, suddenly I'll just go to the shop and send the order.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Dave Sloven on September 26, 2015, 03:21:52 AM
I have the A-Bomb with the Nailbomb neck.  It is a good neck pickup, but I think the Rebel Yell is probably the one to go for if you like the Cold Sweat.  Basically the RY neck is a CS neck modified to fit better with the RY bridge tonally, and as I said above the A-Bomb is basically a bigger, nastier version of the RY.  I had a CS neck with an A-Bomb at one point and I just thought there was something off in the combo tonally. I can see how the CS neck might go well with a C-Bomb, but the accentuated mids of the A-Bomb (especially in the middy guitar I had them in) made the tonal contrast between neck and bridge quite sharp.  The RY neck should do everything that the CS neck can do, but just match the A-Bomb better.  Similarly I would recommend a CS neck to go with a Miracle Man bridge for the same reason - the relation between the CS bridge and MM bridge is similar to that between the RY bridge and the A-Bomb.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: JimmyMoorby on September 26, 2015, 01:07:16 PM
A-Bomb/Cold Sweat is a safe bet.  A combo often used and used by my self in the past in similar guitars.  With the right amp settings you should be able to get what you want and if it isn't quite what you're after their is an exchange policy or you could cut your losses and try some thing else.
Get the a-bomb/cold sweat and decide if you need more/less output more warmth/power etc etc
Bouth pups are very clear and articulate though in an alder super strat I can assure you.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 26, 2015, 01:22:21 PM
A-Bomb/Cold Sweat is a safe bet.  A combo often used and used by my self in the past in similar guitars.  With the right amp settings you should be able to get what you want and if it isn't quite what you're after their is an exchange policy or you could cut your losses and try some thing else.
Get the a-bomb/cold sweat and decide if you need more/less output more warmth/power etc etc
Bouth pups are very clear and articulate though in an alder super strat I can assure you.
Thanks! Sounds good. Clear and articulate are the key words. I think I'll go for those, since that's BK'S advice aswell it seems like a safe bet.
Now is just a matter of color choice. I'm thinking zebra,  the guitar is all black with a clear maple headstock.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: ztevie on September 27, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
The order is in. Nailbomb A5 bridge, Cold Sweat neck in zebra...
I'll make a small review if there's any interest.
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: Kiichi on September 27, 2015, 05:50:31 PM
There is always interesting in reviews. Everyone brings new perspectives on a pickup. I mean Iīve come up with a thread dedicated to collecting them and itīs now a sticky here. I think that means there is interest. =)
Title: Re: Tight, clear with decent power...
Post by: everyemptyvein on September 27, 2015, 05:52:26 PM
I think a crawler would sound pretty good in there. Super crunchy but not too fat sounding.