Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: guitarman001 on November 23, 2015, 11:32:20 PM
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OK, long post here. I'm also enquiring about Oil City pickups and looking at a few other avenues.
I've only ever had stock pups so I'm no expert here. I'd hate to order something only to describe it wrongly or not truly know what I want.
I have 3 electrics:
- PRS Cu24 with 57/08s uncovered. Mahogany body, maple neck, ebony board, 5-way selector.
- PRS Cu24 with 59/09s covered. Mahogany body, maple neck, ebony board, 5-way selector.
- Suhr Pro S4, basswood body, maple neck & board, SSH+ uncovered in bridge and ML single coils.
The Suhr has great quacky, out-of-phase, sounds. Maybe due to genuine single coils and pickup spacing as compared to the 24-fret PRS. The SSH++ has a great "bite" or "grit" in that when I hit the string there is a satisfying gritty sound due to the pick-string contact. It is VERY easy to play pinched harmonics on this - they ring out the most easily out of all the guitars. Also, I barely have to touch the strings in order for vibrato to sound really good. I also recently just noticed the bass strings sound more gritty than the PRS (in fact I think all do) likely due to the "hotness" of this pup. I think it's really exceptional. It's weird but when I go from PRS pups to this, it initially sounds quite thin and not as thin. But it has its own thing going on and sounds incredible - then if I got to the PRS they can sound a little polite - but after a while again with those I love 'em! I don't like overly hot metal 'buckers at all, nothing too abrasive... but they got this one bang on the money. Usually people get an SSV in the neck to go with this but I haven't tried that. Suhr pups are pretty affordable and a "known quantity" to me.
The 57/08s are sublime. I have to say I've tried the new 85/15s and they split really well but PRS don't sell them (or 57/08s so I only have the one pair). The neck is lovely and warm, the bridge when distorted sounds so good. More "depth" or "more genuine??" than the SSH+ in a way. Harder to get the pinched harmonics. Middle position is a bit like a Les Paul and surprisingly retains a little quack like the split positions. Bridge-mid split is nice, single-coil like and transparent. Nice-mid split is very good... nice bit of quack there. When I say transparent, I mean that the pups don't seem to colour the sound too much whereas I feel the Suhr pups do. I do like a little bit of colouration! This is less hot than the Suhr but still damn good - problem is I like both, and one's hotter than the other, so I don't think "hotness" is a major factor for me: mid-to-high levels would be good.
The 57/08 in neck-mid is a bit spanky/quacky and crystal clear - I love it. I understand this is also due to how PRS pups are split with a series link resistor to ground some place.
The 59/09s are good BUT I find them to be a bit muffled (flat/dead with little sustain played clean - the 57/08s sound better and seem to have an almost natural reverb)! I think this is just down to them being potted and covered. For this reason I'm really hesitant about getting covered pups again, even if they can look better (or am I talking rubbish?). Initially I thought these were too hot but actually I don't mind that too much (to an extent!). I can almost hear the quacky split sounds but it's like there is a blanket over the guitar. To be honest I'd love to have them uncovered and un-potted but don't think that's going to happen! Both these and the 57/08 do sound great distorted - long singing leads. I thought about selling this guitar but I think I should work on the pups first. I read that covers are good to prevent feedback squeal but I've never experienced that. Distorted is no big issue. It's the clean chime and quack that I miss. It's there and sometimes I think I'm mental and that the pups are really amazing. But when I go from 57/08 or Suhr pups back to this, the difference can be heard, I think...
The 57/08 I think has a tighter/punchier bass, slightly more mid (I may be talking rubbish there) and a less muffled treble. If you skip to the last half of this demo (where amp volume is boosted) you can hear what I'm talking about (both 57/08 and 59/09 played clean in neck-mid position):
https://soundcloud.com/tommysixstring/prs-5708-uncovered-5909-covered-comparison-neck-mid
There seem to be so many options and being honest, so many manufacturers as well! I thought about getting Suhr pups but I have them already in my Pro S4 so would be good to try something different. Bareknuckles seem to get good reviews (Mule as a safe option) - good sound demos on their site, though. Then there's Mojo etc... The way I'm thinking just now is either Oil City, BKP or do something with these 59/09s (live with them) - at least I'm being honest here :) I wrote to Bareknuckle to initially suggest a low-output 'bucker like the 57/08s with clean chime and they recommended a set of Riff-Raffs but after playing my Suhr, I think I like it a tad hotter.
I'm not into metal or jazz... not so much into blues. What I do like are crystal clear cleans and pups that split well in order to give real quack. No muffled noises! In the 59/09 demo I linked, the treble sounds muffled, the 57/08s have a more focused bass sound and they just sound better in general. As well as cleans, I'm into hard rock and 80s hair metal (though I do plan to branch out into a little country & funk at some point!). The 57/08s are great for the Slash tone - the creamy lead in the neck or the balls-out solos in the bridge position. If there's only one thing I can fault them with it's the volume drop when going to split-coil mode (unavoidable). Distortion-wise I like the grit when you hit the string (to an extent... I'd rather have no grit than an abrasive sound), ease of (pinched) harmonics ringing out etc. I love the openness of the uncovered 57/08s - I think uncovered might be the way to go. At the same time I don't think I want the exact same sort of pickup as that - if the 59/09 wasn't so muffled that might have been a total winner - to be honest it is still amazing, just not AS amazing! Anyway regarding distortion, think Steve Stevens, Slash, Van Halen, Nuno Bettencourt, Poison, Satriani - that whole sort of thing.
BKP recommend I get a "reverse neck magnet" when making a query but I don't know what that's all about.
I think Alnico IV is good for 57/08 type sounds? But again, you can suggest whatever! I have zero idea how hex screws vs normal screws make a difference. To be honest, I don't know if I want classic/modern/high output humbuckers and what combinations are good! I don't like weedy pups but would rather have less strong ones and just add more amp distortion than having a pup that is too hot and not being able to do anything about it. I play a lot of stuff outside of my band so versatility is also important.
I'm not so keen on this pick-up quest. I think it'll be hard to beat the 59/09s but then I've never had British custom-wound pups (I understand they sound better due to the man-made imperfections in the winding). At least with guitars I can try a bunch in a shop but here it's a case of spend cash and if it doesn't work, spend more... I play through a Blackstar TVP - yes, I play expensive guitars through valve emulation but it's damn good ... and I live in a flat right now.
You can see further pickup demos on my website - there are two demos halfway down the page:
http://tommysixstring.com/
Many thanks for suggestions!
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Two pickups leap to mind when reading your post and I think both could do a great job for you.
The Abraxas is very much a PAF pickup but much hotter than a normal PAF. Essentially it's a Mule on steriods so it tends to be a bit darker and is stronger in the mids. Cleans are excellent and it seems to take a lot more distortion than you'd imagine. 80s Metal etc. isn't out of its operating window though I think you're at its top end by then and there start to be better options but it's a very versatile pickup and seems to work really well in PRS guitars.
My other suggestion would be the Crawler, which sort of takes the Abraxas to the next level. The use of an alnico 5 magnet helps to keep things tight enough and it has a wonderful growl to it. It will happily do 80s Metal, Hard Rock, Blues Rock, Blues and cleans. The splits you get from the Crawler are incredible - easily the best split tones I've ever heard. The Crawler is extremely versatile and works fantastically well in PRS guitars as that's what mine was in. To this day it's the guitar I most regret selling as there was very little I couldn't play on a Crawler equipped PRS.
For the neck, I think it depends on how vintage you like your tone. I like the sweet and fluid tone of a PAF neck humbucker but I like it with the cut and articulation of a more modern pickup. With my Crawler, I kept changing my mind between the Emerald neck and Holydiver neck. Both were sublime in their own way and both work very well in PRS guitars. If you'd prefer a more traditional PAF tone, look at a Mule neck.
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Maybe the 5 way needs the magnet flip for the existing wiring to work
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seems like you honestly prefer the 42awg pups better
you should definitely try mules and riff raffs in the cu24s
maybe an abraxas for the Suhr
the mules do the "natural reverb" really really well
it was actually the first set I had exactly this same impression of having some sort of reverb on the cleans