Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Chargrilled on November 25, 2015, 11:47:24 AM
-
There seems to be two parties on opposite ends of the spectrum, so the question is does the type of wood actually effect the tone or is it a myth...
-
My attitude is that the wood in the guitar is part of what is vibrating when playing and so it will have an impact on the overall tone of the instrument at some level. I don't subscribe to simple-minded generalizations about a type of wood with regard to tone because I own SGs and I can tell you that SGs sound more alike regardless of whether they have maple or mahogany necks than they sound like other mahogany guitars like Explorers. I have noticed a pronounced brightness to maple fingerboards compared to rosewood ones when comparing otherwise similar basses, however.
What I will say is that the more open and less compressed a pickup is the more the acoustic differences between instruments seem to matter. I think this is a major reason why BKPs tend to react very differently to different guitars while some other pickups do not.
-
Ok cool thanks for the response
-
I think Tone Woods are just part of the mix personally.
I thing they do have an effect but its also about the amount of wood there, the shape of the body (effects how the wood can resonate), the construction of the guitar, Set Neck, Neck-Thru, Bolt on etc.
And then there is the finish... thick finishes can stifle the resonance of a guitar.
For example I have three PRS Tremonti's and all three sound different acoustically and therefore plugged in even with the same pickups, construction and hardware. Do they all sound like Tremonti's yes just that one has a boomier, thicker bottom end, one a more rounded upper midrange and one that's very tight and aggressive.. all slight but noticeable differences around the same general theme.
-
Yeah out of my three SGs the two with the satin finishes are more resonant than the one with the full gloss clearcoat (the SG Standard), even though the the Standard is a lot more resonant than my Epiphone Explorer. The latter has a polyurethane finish but I think the difference in body style and neck joint (and thicker maple neck) probably have more influence on that than the type of finish. But you can hear the difference when comparing my three all mahogany SGs. My SG Special is very similar to my SG Standard (same woods, same routing) except for the finish. The three Gibsons are all very loud acoustically. The Epi is much less so, but the Explorer design has considerably more sustain. I did notice that the sustain increased with the fitment of a TonePros bridge and tailpiece set, but my two tune-o-matic SGs have those as well.
-
Combination of tonewoods can make a dramatic difference. An ebony fretboard will usually give more snap and percussiveness than rosewood. But the construction - glued in neck, neck-thru or bolt-on - has an effect too. So does the bridge. In the end the pickups can do a lot too. There's not really a general rule to predict the result, even when guitars are made to the same specs.
-
I think that the wood is part of a number of elements that affect tone but I don't really buy into the attributed tonal qualities of various woods. I would expect the neck construction to have a bit of an influence too . I can't claim any scientific evidence to support my opinion however and I certainly wouldn't bother to argue the toss over it.
-
It seems to me that often two aspects of wood are not distinguished enough in such discussions - the air resonance of wood on one hand and the effect of wood on the string vibrations on the other.
The wood used in electric guitars does not make the electric guitars have air resonance (like an acoustic guitar has). This is why you may hear more of the string vibration when you play the guitar unplugged while holding it against a table and then taking it away. You will hear the difference unplugged but you will not hear a difference when the guitar is plugged into an amp. Why is that - well, the pickups in the guitar do not pick up air resonance. They pick up the strings vibrating.
However, that does by no way mean that wood does not have an influence on the final sound - it does because the wood (together with the entire construction of the guitar) affects the string vibrations which then get picked up by the pickup and are converted into the tiny electric signal that is then amplified. Frequencies not contained in the string vibration cannot be brought back by pickups, amps or pedals.
Another aspect comes into play when you play an electric guitar at a certain volume level. In that case the guitar picks up the acoustic sound coming from the speakers - which in turn again affects the string vibration. I feel that guitars made of certain woods (noteably alder and mahogany) seem to feedback easier than others (e.g. ash).
Cheers Stephan
-
I will say that I never had an alder guitar I didn't like the sound of. I also only had one mahogany guitar that sounded like arse.
But I think the individual piece of wood itself makes more of a difference than the species itself. I'd rather have a guitar made of a great piece of poplar than a bad piece of mahogany.
Anyway, I would say - yes - wood clearly affects the tone. Quite alot as well, and its the only thing other than the construction you can't change once you've brought the guitar. So for me, its probably the most important aspect of tone. But as Mr 38th says : "I don't really buy into the attributed tonal qualities of various woods"..
-
+1 for gwEm's contribution. Quality of the wood counts: by example cheap basswood and topnotch basswood that Suhr uses.
-
The latest in the tone wood debate. I suppose cardboard was wood once. :evil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oo2H-W7d6A
-
The latest in the tone wood debate. I suppose cardboard was wood one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oo2H-W7d6A
Yeah, I saw that vid. Hope the guitar doesn't get wet.
-
It must have some lacquer on it - maybe even an epoxy resin - otherwise I can't see how one could play the fret board.
-
It must have some lacquer on it - maybe even an epoxy resin - otherwise I can't see how one could play the fret board.
100% correct. Impressed by the strat I watched some more of their videos and they coat the cardboard in epoxy resin
-
Speaking from my own experience: Wood has a huge impact on tone. I have two guitars that are quite similar, especially the construction and shape. Suhr Modern (alder body, all maple neck, bolt-on, two point tremolo) and Mayones Setius (mahogany/maple body and neck, bolt-on, hardtail). The Suhr's body is actually a bit thicker as well. However, they sound nothing like each other. The Setius sounds close to a Les Paul, and the Suhr sounds bright and lacks the balls of a mahogany guitar. I also owned a Suhr S4 with basswood/maple body for a few days, with Suhr ML pickups in the neck and middle. It sounded extremely bright and extremely dull and lifeless at the same time... So I have figured that I will probably not get another guitar with anything else than mahogany! Maybe I will get an alder strat just to have one, but mahogany will always be my favorite by far!
-
It must have some lacquer on it - maybe even an epoxy resin - otherwise I can't see how one could play the fret board.
100% correct. Impressed by the strat I watched some more of their videos and they coat the cardboard in epoxy resin
Of course they did, otherwise the neck would be playing like a toiletpaperroll.
-
It must have some lacquer on it - maybe even an epoxy resin - otherwise I can't see how one could play the fret board.
100% correct. Impressed by the strat I watched some more of their videos and they coat the cardboard in epoxy resin
Of course they did, otherwise the neck would be playing like a toiletpaperroll.
I'm not sure the neck is amazing to play anyway with those holes. But, it looks absolutely fantastic!
-
Why is that - well, the pickups in the guitar do not pick up air resonance. They pick up the strings vibrating.
This is a common misconception. Guitar pickups are actually (more or less) microphonic (depending on construction, quality, AND how heavily they were wax-potted), sometimes to the point you can sing thru your pickup. Modern hot pups are most often heavily potted (else they would squeal at hi-gain settings) so the microphonic effect can be negligible, but vintage ones are either only slightly potted or just not potted at all, and then they do pick some of your guitar's acoustic tone too. That's also (partly) why semi-hollow and hollowbody guitars are more prone to feedback...
wrt/ the good old tonewood debate, there are still way too few scientific researches on the topic but some recent (french - but quite serious nonetheless <g>) studies tend to demonstrate that the neck and fretboard woods would have much more impact than the body's. Which FWIW would match some empirical evidences collected by people having tried the very same guitar (usually a F-type one <g>) with three or more different necks (I did and the difference ranged from "noticeable" to "night and day").
-
I don't think it makes as much of an impact on tone as I once thought. So long as it has some resonance and sustain to the acoustic tone, I've found the pickups make more of a difference. My SG has been really picky with pickups and I think the Black Dog has been the best so far - most pickups make it sound dull and lifeless which is not the case unplugged! Whereas my Pearl LP and cheap strat copy sound fine with pretty much anything and have loads of sustain - even the no name single coils in the strat have more sustain and life than the wrong BKP in the SG!
-
But the fact that guitars can be picky about the pickups begs the question as to what it is about the guitar that is making it more sensitive to pickup changes than other guitars!!! Wood type would be part of the equation, but only a small part, as many guitars have the mahogany neck/body combination and it is also the case that maple neck SGs sound more like other SGs than other guitars with mahogany bodies and set maple necks (e.g., some Explorers). The construction, thickness, bridge type, neck angle, pickup placement, all of these things must have an influence here. Otherwise every guitar with a certain pickup set in it would sound the same.
-
There seems to be two parties on opposite ends of the spectrum, so the question is does the type of wood actually effect the tone or is it a myth...
When you have such a polarized deliberation, usually both sides are right.. .. somewhat.
Wood affects tone, construction affects tone, pickups affect tone. It all adds up yielding a unique result in the end.
From what I have heard, the acoustic tone of an instrument is more audible when playing clean but as you add more and more distortion, the timbre of the pickup and the amp tends to predominate.
-
wrt/ the good old tonewood debate, there are still way too few scientific researches on the topic but some recent (french - but quite serious nonetheless <g>) studies tend to demonstrate that the neck and fretboard woods would have much more impact than the body's. Which FWIW would match some empirical evidences collected by people having tried the very same guitar (usually a F-type one <g>) with three or more different necks (I did and the difference ranged from "noticeable" to "night and day").
I suspect there's a lot research that's been done but it's considered proprietary knowledge that various companies would prefer their competition (and probably their consumers) not to have access to.
On one hand they wouldn't want their competition to steal something that took years/$$$$ to figure out and implement, and on the other they wouldn't want their customers to understand how miniscule the effects of their latest changes to next years model are.