Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: one on January 26, 2016, 09:13:42 AM
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Guys, thanks a lot for your replies in the other thread. I'm reading all of them very attentively although I haven't answered since I opened the thread. At the moment, I'm torn between two different heads, I'll list the pros and cons I find in them, please, don't hesitate to comment:
OPTION A
EVH 5150 50W White: I found a new one I can afford, the price is lowered because of small cosmetic issues.
Pros:
cheaper
supported by guitarrist community
beautiful cleans
enough gain for every metal style
Cons:
heavy
volume jumps between channels
small watted horizontal cabinet
OPTION B:
VICTORY KRAKEN 50w
Pros:
Made in Europe
Modern sound, two gain channels
Lightweight
100wat vertical cabinet
Cons:
More expensive
Almost no feedback from guitarrist community
No clean channel (but can take the gain from one and obtain jcm800 like cleans)
There are three options:
1. I can go for the Kraken (the most expensive option)
2. I can go for the EVH + different cabinet (vertical and 100w preferable)
3. I can go for the EVH + evh cabinet
Bear in mind I have to deal with a ENGl Powerball + laney 4x12 so I might probably eliminate the third option?
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I've been having some SERIOUS GAS for the Kraken ever since it came out.
Still need to sell a couple of things though.........and I really dont need another amp
I must say I have to base my judgment on youtube videos and recordings.
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That's my problem, PK, I don't know anyone who really owns that amp, and I need user advice as soon as possible :)
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I would go for the EVH and get a different cab, e.g. an Orange PPC212. I think you can even find them in white. They have two V30s for 120W. Looking at the controls on an EVH 5150 III they have separate EQ and gain controls like a Peavey 5150 II; this means that you can adjust the master volume on each channel to where you want it. What I have found with a Peavey is that if you have a 'crunch' on the rhythm channel then you do get a volume boost when you kick that in, but if you are using the rhythm and lead channels (and not the crunch switch) you can get unity volume pretty easily.
From the look of the panel below EVH are pretending that there are separate clean and crunch channels (1/2) and that the lead channel is in fact a third channel, but from what I can see it's the same situation as the 5150 II except missing the resonance control (which is mainly used to compensate for thin or bassy cabs).
(http://www.premierguitar.com/ext/resources/archives/44499936-9a74-45b3-8a88-d49955c8fdc5.JPG)
(http://www.txirula.com/files/producto/orangethunderverb50whle.jpg)
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A bit expensive, but nice option, I'll have in mind. I was thinking about asking about the cabinet later, I'm more interested in Kraken owners to help here, but I'm starting to think they actually don't exist
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I've got one - it's awesome! I also have a 15W EVH.
They both sound great, but I don't have a lot of time to go into detail (sorry).
I doubt you'd regret buying either, but I think the Kraken has more plus points. It's really thoughtfully designed and I haven't found any annoyances yet. The fact that both the power and standby switches are on the back of the EVH pisses me off! (that's where the resonance control is too).
Channel one does clean sounds very well, BTW.
Anything in particular you'd like to know?
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I've got one - it's awesome! I also have a 15W EVH.
They both sound great, but I don't have a lot of time to go into detail (sorry).
I doubt you'd regret buying either, but I think the Kraken has more plus points. It's really thoughtfully designed and I haven't found any annoyances yet. The fact that both the power and standby switches are on the back of the EVH pisses me off! (that's where the resonance control is too).
Channel one does clean sounds very well, BTW.
Anything in particular you'd like to know?
Man, you are my last hope, please spend some time to help me. I'm almost sold with the EVH, I can get it for 950€ no cab, while Kraken+cab goes for 1750€. Which one would you keep? I'm scared the Kraken can't do metal as good as the EVH (every style although I especially love death and progressive, so versatility is something important). I think the EVH cleans are great, but I don't know about the kraken. The volume channel jump from the EVH puts me a bit down, so I don't know.
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I just spent so long writing a reply that I was logged out when I tried to post it and it deleted everything :cry:
This is an opportunity for me to summarise my bullshiteeee!
Firstly, if I dial in a decent metal tone on both amps, I'd say they're in a similar ballpark. I really wouldn't worry about the Kraken's metal credentials.
The EVH sounds great, but channel 2 is the go to dirty channel, so I can see the fact that it shares gain & volume with the clean channel to be a potential problem (I can't relate 1st hand, as my 15W doesn't have a clean channel). Channel 3 is quite scooped sounding and has way too much gain - and I am a "you can never have enough gain" person.
If you read up about the Kraken footswitching options, you'll see that there won't be any channel volume matching issues.
The Kraken has more than enough gain on channel 2, and really responds amazingly to the guitars' volume control. I'm really not very good at describing tone, so I'd just say if you like what you've seen/heard in the videos, you will like the amp. I can get so many more sounds out of it than with the EVH. I take it you've seen the official video and the Chappers/Andertons video?
On a negative note, the Kraken doesn't look as cool as the EVH - however, it is smaller and lighter (and comes with a carry bag).
You won't have a problem competing with/slaying a Powerball with either of these.
Where do you live? Is there no opportunity to at least try an EVH?
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I just spent so long writing a reply that I was logged out when I tried to post it and it deleted everything :cry:
This is an opportunity for me to summarise my bullshiteeeeee!
Firstly, if I dial in a decent metal tone on both amps, I'd say they're in a similar ballpark. I really wouldn't worry about the Kraken's metal credentials.
The EVH sounds great, but it isn't very dynamic - I find all my guitars sound quite similar through it, plus it doesn't respond well to the guitars' volume control. Also, channel 2 is the go to dirty channel, so I can see the fact that it shares gain & volume with the clean channel to be a potential problem (I can't relate 1st hand, as my 15W doesn't have a clean channel). Channel 3 is quite scooped sounding and has way too much gain - and I am a "you can never have enough gain" person.
If you read up about the Kraken footswitching options, you'll see that there won't be any channel volume matching issues.
The Kraken has more than enough gain on channel 2, and really responds amazingly to the guitars' volume control. I'm really not very good at describing tone, so I'd just say if you like what you've seen/heard in the videos, you will like the amp. I can get so many more sounds out of it than with the EVH. I take it you've seen the official video and the Chappers/Andertons video?
On a negative note, the Kraken doesn't look as cool as the EVH - however, it is smaller and lighter (and comes with a carry bag).
You won't have a problem competing with/slaying a Powerball with either of these.
Where do you live? Is there no opportunity to at least try an EVH?
I really appreciate you bothering to answer, mate, it looks like you are the only one in most guitar and metal forums who actually has a Kraken. I was on the verge of paying for the EVH until I read you, hehe, I'm uncertain again. You exactly hint to my worries about the EVH. I've heard channel 3 is too much gainy, so you have to use 1 and 2 that share equalization (a flaw imo), channel volume matching problems (2nd flaw), weight (another one in comparison with the Kraken) I've seen the videos but I was scared the guy used so many effects, post-production tricks it doesn't represent the real sound of the amp. Plus, I suspect a lot about the reason why so few people can say a word about the Kraken.
Now, the cleans is the only thing that bothers me, and you didn't talk about this. I've heard the EVH has beautiful cleans brought by Fender. In this respect, probably EVH wins, right?
I don't care about coolness or look, if that's the biggest problem you see here.
Thanks a lot for your help, as I can't try either of the amps.
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This video gives a pretty good idea of the sounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_hOULA7Pik
Straight away when goes to channel 2 (the old 'crunch') he turns down the volume, so your point on that is obvious.
This video also explains quite a bit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo18CwzE3DE
Personally I don't find the gain on channel 3 to be outlandish. I am pretty sure my Peavey 6534+ has more than that.
I tend to think that you could get around the volume issue when switching between channels 1 & 2 by using a Morley volume pedal with the minimum volume on it to set up a louder sound for the clean.
The cleans sound at least as good as my 6534+ and better than any 5150/6505 or 5159 II/6505+ I've heard.
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Thanks mate! :)
I don't plan to buy a pedal to gap the volume difference between channel 1 and 2 if I buy it but for what I understand in your post, I probably could forget about the channel 2 and use 1 for cleans and 3 for the rest. In my band we play 75% distorted so I'll probably won't miss using channel 2. What do you think?
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I think you probably just need to take the plunge. It's unlikely you'll regret your decision either way.
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I was coming to that conclusion, monkey, thanks. Anyway, I'm still undecisive. In case I go for the EVH, what cabin do you think it would be better? Both are the same price and weight, but:
Victory 2x12 V30 100w vertical
Cream white option matching the EVH
it's cool it's vertical, better for the place where we play
V30s (I've heard they aren't the best for the EVH, as it is a trebblish amp)
JVMC212 2x12 140w horizontal
Black (not matching the EVH)
Horizontal
G12 Vintage & G12 Heritage (don't know about them)
Thanks in advance.
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I bought the Kraken and it's bloody good but it doesn't have a dedicated clean channel - you have to roll off on the guitar volume and pretty much turn gain down to 1 on OD Channel 1 to get a clean which is a bit of a shame. If you're going to have two channels you may as well have one clean but I can see their thinking.
OD1 is bassier/ crunchier OD2 is the higher gain one both sound very good.
I bought it to send it through a Two Notes Studio loadbox/ cab emulator and compare to the Kemper - honestly the Kemper is so good for high gain stuff there was no point keeping it so I ended up returning the Kraken. On recordings there was no difference, they both sounded great.
I've only played through EVH Profiles on the Kemper, I prefer the Kraken of the two personally.
P.s. another alternative is the Kemper Power Rack - you can stick that through real cabs, and try out a range of amps, Rectifiers, Diezel, EVH etc.
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Thanks mate! :)
I don't plan to buy a pedal to gap the volume difference between channel 1 and 2 if I buy it but for what I understand in your post, I probably could forget about the channel 2 and use 1 for cleans and 3 for the rest. In my band we play 75% distorted so I'll probably won't miss using channel 2. What do you think?
I never use the 'crunch' thing on my 6534+ except for stuff like AC/DC or Rose Tattoo.
Actually I went for two years just using the lead channel because I was playing d-beat punk, and clean was never needed. I left my footswitch at home!
On speakers to go with the EVH, V30s all the way, no question. They might sound a bit nasal at first, but when broken in they are excellent for that type of amp.
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Just updated an earlier post of mine as I saw Chris Amott completely clean up the blue channel on high gain with his guitars' volume. Can't do that with the 15W!
I wouldn't dismiss channel 2 of the EVH. It's a wicked tight channel with a surprising amount of gain and really strong mids. It doesn't need a boost as some of the old Peaveys did.
Yep, definitely agree on the V30s.
That was a pretty good summary of the Kraken, but I don't think you need to drop the gain so low to get the sound clean. It also depends on the pickups. I played through both amps again yesterday and this is definitely my favourite of the two.
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Thanks, guys, you've helped me a lot. I'm almost decided, waiting for the shop owner to accept my offer :)
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No worries dude. I wish you a lot of fun with your new amp!
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If you get the V30 cab there's a good chance it will sound shrill and nasal until broken in.
Also the V30s will not sound at their best at 'bedroom volumes' and the speakers will NEVER break in at those volumes. You will need to play through them for several hours at gigging volumes to break them in. When broken in I think you will find them to be superior, especially when playing in a mix with a bass and drums.
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Thanks, mates, I just ordered the EVH
I plan to play with it 75% of the time in the band, but not crazy volumes, so what do you recommend? Should I get a custom cabinet made with a V30 an a different one to ease that shrillness and nasal problems or just go for another kind of cabinet?
As long as it is the Ivory version, I'd like a white or ivory cabinet, so I was thinking about the Kraken cabinet which is not very heavy, vertical, 100w and that colour. I don't want to spend more than 500-600€. The other option is the 5150 cab in the same colour, but is almost the same price, horizontal (I prefer the other) and 60w.
I'm open to your wise advice, bros :)
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You could combine a V30 with a CL80, but realistically if you get a good 212 v30 cab used it should be broken in.
I contemplated fitting a pair of CL80s into my Orange PPC412 cab, but then I started cranking the cab more often and broke the V30s in. Since then it's all been gravy.
By 'gigging volumes' I mean at the level where you can just hear the drummer without the kit mic'd up. On a 6534+ that's around 2.5-3 on the post gain for the lead channel. On a 50W amp that might be a little higher, say 4.
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Congrats. Let us know how you get on with it.
I can't really give you much advice on the speakers, I've pretty much always used V30s as they work well for me. I found that they tend to break in quite quickly.
The Victory 2x12 vertical cab is not as wide as the EVH mini. An overhanging amp is not a good look, so please don't buy that one!
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The Victory 2x12 vertical cab is not as wide as the EVH mini. An overhanging amp is not a good look, so please don't buy that one!
Well, according to the specs, the difference in just 1 cm. so maybe not looking so bad. Not too many to choose from, I'll probably ask you for help later, with a list of possible cabs. :)
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I just got a 5150 50w, I'll post pics later. I have two quick questions:
1. I don't have a cab yet and could resist trying it with headphones yesterday, a friend told me not to do this again because I could destroy the transformer since it ALWAYS has to be connected to a cab to allow the energy steming from it go out of the head, is it true? In that case, I won't switch it on again until I get the cab.
2. My friend told me the sound out of the cab is much better than that of the headphones alone, which made me feel a big relief, because I thought the third channel sounded overwhelmingly trebblish and hissing. True too, I hope?
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1. I don't have a cab yet and could resist trying it with headphones yesterday, a friend told me not to do this again because I could destroy the transformer since it ALWAYS has to be connected to a cab to allow the energy steming from it go out of the head, is it true? In that case, I won't switch it on again until I get the cab.
Yes, your friend is 100% correct!! The same is true if you turn on your amp without the cable connected between the amp and the cab. The good news is that I did the latter once and my Peavey 6534+ survived. But you could kill the output transformer. You also need to make sure that you have a proper speaker cable, not an instrument cable, between the amp and the cab, and that the impedance on the cab is matched to that on the amp. Looking at the back panel of your amp it has the same variable impedance switch used on the Peaveys, just make sure you have it set to match the cab (4, 8, or 16 ohms).
2. My friend told me the sound out of the cab is much better than that of the headphones alone, which made me feel a big relief, because I thought the third channel sounded overwhelmingly trebblish and hissing. True too, I hope?
Of course it will be much better. The other thing that worries me here is that I see no dedicated headphone jack on the 5150 III. What did you plug those headphones into?????
I would strongly suggest a careful read of the instruction manual before using any equipment, especially if it is unfamiliar equipment (it sounds like you have only used combos before).
EDIT: I do see a head phone jack now. I am assuming that the cab still needs to be plugged in, but if there is a circuit inside the head that allows for you to do it without the cab (i.e., that sets the impedance to the transformer to a standard headphone impedance) then it might be okay. But my point about reading the manual carefully stands.
EDIT:: Looking at the manual online it is a little vague on the headphones (all it says is that when headphones are put in the speaker cab is muted) but there is the following note regarding always having speakers connected:
" A speaker must always be plugged into one of the speaker jacks when the EVH amplifier is ON or damage may occur. Switch the amplifier "OFF" or to "STANDBY" while changing speaker connections or impedance settings."
http://support.evhgear.com/manuals/EVH_5150III_50W_AmpHead_OwnersManual_079107b.pdf
This is another tip from me in case you haven't heard this: when switching your amp to standby make sure you have signal going to the amp (i.e., nothing is muting the signal into the amp, such as a tuner being on) and strum it until the green light goes out. This will drain the residual charge from your capacitors and avoid a 'pop' sound. Then turn the amp off once that light has gone out. Then, and only then, turn it off at the wall. When starting up let it warm for a while in standby before switching the amp completely on.
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1. I don't have a cab yet and could resist trying it with headphones yesterday, a friend told me not to do this again because I could destroy the transformer since it ALWAYS has to be connected to a cab to allow the energy steming from it go out of the head, is it true? In that case, I won't switch it on again until I get the cab.
Yes, your friend is 100% correct!! The same is true if you turn on your amp without the cable connected between the amp and the cab. The good news is that I did the latter once and my Peavey 6534+ survived. But you could kill the output transformer. You also need to make sure that you have a proper speaker cable, not an instrument cable, between the amp and the cab, and that the impedance on the cab is matched to that on the amp. Looking at the back panel of your amp it has the same variable impedance switch used on the Peaveys, just make sure you have it set to match the cab (4, 8, or 16 ohms).
2. My friend told me the sound out of the cab is much better than that of the headphones alone, which made me feel a big relief, because I thought the third channel sounded overwhelmingly trebblish and hissing. True too, I hope?
Of course it will be much better. The other thing that worries me here is that I see no dedicated headphone jack on the 5150 III. What did you plug those headphones into?????
I would strongly suggest a careful read of the instruction manual before using any equipment, especially if it is unfamiliar equipment (it sounds like you have only used combos before).
EDIT: I do see a head phone jack now. I am assuming that the cab still needs to be plugged in, but if there is a circuit inside the head that allows for you to do it without the cab (i.e., that sets the impedance to the transformer to a standard headphone impedance) then it might be okay. But my point about reading the manual carefully stands.
Hahaha, thanks for you help, agent orange, it is my first head, you're right, but I plugged it into the headphones line, no problem. I thought I read nothing about it in the very short manual that I of course took first. But oh, dear, I hope I haven't screwed it, I played for an hour with the headphones :( I didn't notice anything weird from the sound in the beginning and in the end of my playing, I hope everything is okay. I can't wait for trying it with a cab, I think I'm buying the paired evh 2x12 in no time.
Edit: Gosh, I just read it, how can I know if I damaged the damn thing?
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I made an edit above that shows stuff from the manual
An hour is a lot longer that the couple of minutes of silence that I put mine through. Hopefully the circuitry for the headphones protected your output transformer somehow but I wouldn't recommend repeating that experiment.
This is an example of a speaker cable:
(https://www.thomann.de/pics/bdb/185408/930785_800.jpg)
http://www.thomann.de/gb/planet_waves_pws05.htm
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Edit: Gosh, I just read it, how can I know if I damaged the damn thing?
You won't really know until you plug a proper speaker cable and a speaker cabinet and play through that. If it sounds fine then wipe the sweat from your forehead and just remember the proper procedures for the future. It's possible that you may have taken some of the life off of the output transformer but if there is no issues with the sound then it is unlikely that there is visible damage that a warranty repairer could see, and if it doesn't get through the warranty period you might be able to take it back to be fixed as long as you don't repeat this story! If you plug it in and it sounds bad then it is likely that there was worse damage and you probably would not get away with taking it back under warranty. In that case you would just have to spend the extra on a replacement transformer. I am guessing though that it will be fine. Most amps are pretty robust. If the sound you were hearing did not weaken as you were playing I am guessing it is probably okay.
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Thanks for your help, man. I found this, what do you think? (3rd post):
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/evh-5150-iii-50w-part-ii.1052359/page-32
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Yeah well he might be correct but there are a lot of 'know-it-alls' out there who speak very confidently like that.
I tend to think that there is a good chance that you will be okay, but I would not do that again just to be safe. I would keep a speaker cable and speaker cab plugged into the head whenever you are using it (with the ohm load set correctly on the amp) and then plug in headphones if you want to use them for quiet practicing. I would not gamble on the basis of forum hearsay I would take the most conservative route, which is having the speaker plugged in with the correct cable and resistance load and following the correct warm up and turn off procedures.
Hopefully you get a cab and speaker cable soon so that you can give the head a proper play. When I got my Peavey I had to look at it sitting there for at least a couple of weeks before I managed to get my Orange cab and speaker cable, and only then did I start it up.
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Yeah well he might be correct but there are a lot of 'know-it-alls' out there who speak very confidently like that.
I tend to think that there is a good chance that you will be okay, but I would not do that again just to be safe. I would keep a speaker cable and speaker cab plugged into the head whenever you are using it (with the ohm load set correctly on the amp) and then plug in headphones if you want to use them for quiet practicing. I would not gamble on the basis of forum hearsay I would take the most conservative route, which is having the speaker plugged in with the correct cable and resistance load and following the correct warm up and turn off procedures.
Hopefully you get a cab and speaker cable soon so that you can give the head a proper play. When I got my Peavey I had to look at it sitting there for at least a couple of weeks before I managed to get my Orange cab and speaker cable, and only then did I start it up.
Thanks, mate, believe it or not, I am always extremely careful with all my gear, this has been a very unusual move in me, and I bitterly regret it even if it hasn't caused any damage to the head. As you said, first head, I couldn't refrain the impulse to try it, and even after reading instructions, which I always do first, I stupidly skipped that part. Never again. I just hope the builder of the amp is right in his post saying the headphones alone can't damage it, and I also hope the warning in the instructions is just a notice from Fender to cover their backs in case something unusual happens. Hard to know for me, it seems.
Anyway, moving on, I have an old fender champion 100w combo with an 8 ohms plug in the rear part, I hope I can try my EVH there changing the switch in the back of it to 8 ohms, right? Even if that doesn't represent the sound I can reach with a good cab. Otherwise, I'll have to wait for weeks or even months if I want to try it because it seems evh 2x12 cabs have run out in the whole fricking Europe.
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You don't need the EVH cab. I thought you were going for the Victory vertical cab?
Have a look for that Orange cab I posted above. They are absolutely brilliant. I don't know if they are in your price range. €769 on Thomann and they don't seem to have white, only orange and black. Make sure you get a closed back cab for metal.
I would have a look around for second-hand cabs if I were you. Anything with V30s and decent wood (e.g., birch ply) is generally a winner.
Without looking at that thing you have I couldn't tell you want you have there, but I suspect that 8 ohm jack you see is a SPEAKER OUT jack for hooking up an additional cab. You would need to do two things before you could use that cab. One, disconnect the speaker entirely from the amp and wire in a SPEAKER IN jack that you could plug in to. Second, determine the actual ohms of the speaker and make sure that's what you are using. If there is more than one speaker in that cab this all becomes more complicated.
Seriously I would sell or trade the combo for a second-hand cab with enough power-handling (i.e., 100W+). Looking at ebay you should be able to get €200 for that combo
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Thanks, I already ordered the EVH cab, got it for 499€ new and I don't want to spend more. I think 60w will be enough and read very positive opinions about that cab.
I just got an mail, it's coming today so not even trying with the fender combo. I'm very excited, I hope it passes the bedroom volume test and I am looking forward to trying it with my band next Sunday :)
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That's a lot better than the weeks and months scenario!
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Another question, how does the 5150 deal with effects? I have a RP1000 I couldn't use before because my former amp loop didn't work and I'm very curious about it. I'd love to colour the sound of the EVH with the RP as some of them are really cool.
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The 5150 cab is great, as well as the amp! The G12H30s give it a more classic approach (not as modern as V30s) but still tight bottom end and good mid range cut. The best of Greenbacks and V30s really!
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No idea on the loop on the EVH head but I do know that Eddie uses the loop a lot himself and I suspect it works fine. The loop on my 6534+ (which is the same as on the 5150 II) works fine for everything I've tried through it
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Well, just passing by to say thanks, I finally went for the EVH, cab included, and I didn't try it with the band yet but I have the feeling it's going to be awesome!!
(http://i.imgur.com/QbDJaCZ.jpg)
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Looks great, how does it sound playing it at home?
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Sounds great at home at 0.5 volume but I can wait to try it with a drummer and my bandmate's powerball 100 this evening