Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Tim on May 18, 2005, 08:49:04 AM
-
I'm in the process of redesigning the pickup descriptions both for the website and for a brochure. What would you find most useful in the descriptions:
applications< suggested positions<suitability to different timbers<comparitive power ratings etc>
Let me know!
-
A sub section with a brief outline of the differences between the Alnico magnets and how they affect tone might help people make an informed decision.
Chris
-
maybe some kind of desription of how the different magnets will sound in the context of the wood of your guitar? i think that would be well helpful, but maybe it would be too much information?
-
I think it would be great to have an idea of the overall tone and harmonic content, as well as suitability to woods. Another thing that I think would be really great is a description of the sound flat out and also with the volume brought down. Perhaps an idea of the sound you were after when you were voicing the pickup would be good too (I know that this is reflected a bit in your choice of names, but I am sure that you were looking for more than the sound of one song :note: ).
Also, when different magnets are available, a comparision of how each sounds with this pickup would be great too.
Last, and probably not least for me, would be an idea of which position works best for the pickup, and what pairings work too.
-
The danger is you risk pigeonholing the pickups if you describe the sound, eg the Mules, they can do everything!
Perhaps a table of what magnet types sound like, how they work in different woods, and wire tone differences?
-
You could write some words about your experience w/ each humbucker in a...
- Strat
- LP
- RG
I think three such sentences/pickup would be enough to add to the current descriptions. As I see the current website and the reviews, one of the best things about most BKP models are versatility and a certain balanced feel to the tone. I think that things like tone curves, millivolts, etc. are not necessary at all. There's too much that depends on the guitar. What's more, probably most players whose ears are used to mass-produced pickups, can't ever imagine what a wonder scatterwinding does to the tone, although that factor makes it necessary to interpret tonal descriptions from another perspective IMO. Finally, I think most players understand more from gear-specific opinions than guitar-independent specs. :)
-
I thought you might be on the case :D
I reckon a simple mark out of ten for each spec to start with like on the dimarzio website, And the a brief descriptin that describes it a bit more thouroughly.
(I would still keep the original stuff you have there as its good but a thing at the bottom with the specs would be quite cool)
E.g.
Messiahbucker
The god of all hubuckers, Extreme power that is extremely articulate with angel like harmonics. ......etc
Alnico IX magnet gives a warm but expressive sound.....etc
built for guitar dueling... can kill at 100 paces
Heavy rock and expressive guitar heavy solo's :shock:
low....8 tight as a cats spincter, as well as round and full
mid....8 Full but not pokey and spiked
high....9 screaming like a the cat with a red-hot poker in its....
output....10!! Incorporates the power of God himself (miracles sold separetly) :twisted:
Just as a side note I hope that doesn'y offend anyone, but thats just my idea of a good lay-out and a cool PU
Cheers
MMM
-
Some sort of equalizer graphic would be nice. A line diagram with on the horizontal line the frequencies and on the vertical line the output. This way it's easy to see the tonal balance of a pickup. :idea:
SD has sometjing similar, they have bar diagrams with the amount of bass, mid and treble. Personaly I'd like to see something a little more detailed; with a line crossing the entire frequency range from 60 hertz to 16 kilohertz, for example.
-
What about a Hot Diagram which gives an indication to the out put of the pickup and also give an indication of the Hi Mid and low of that pickup.
Chris
-
Keep the ideas coming ladies and gents-the bar graph type idea I've looked at but we're constantly being accused by SD of copying them, Gibson use one too for output so maybe something a little more detailed without going over the top and being confusing maybe??
I agree with HJM about pigeonholing-I play in an Ozzy tribute and I take out LPs with Mules, Holydivers,Miracle Man and Emerald sets in them, I use them in any order I like and simply enjoy the tone and response.That's what HJM and I were trying to point out in the Mule clip we recorded-that they can go from subtle to full on depending how you use/approach them.Another for instance-we sell alot of pickups in France and over there the Warpig is loved by..........jazzers!Now explain that one :D Me, I'm just happy that players are experimenting with our pickups and finding what works for them.Just because a pickup doesn't sound good in one guitar doesn't mean it's cr@p,it's down to finding the right pickup for the guitar,ie I normally recommend a Mule set for classic PAF tone but they just wouldn't do anything for me in one of my 1970 LPs-I ended up with a Crawler set in there and the guitar has suddenly come to life and sounds.....well,right. So does that make the Mule cr@p?Certainly not, it's about being informed and making the right choice.
I like to speak to as many customers as I can, to really get inside their tone requirements and try to get the pickup choice right as painlessly as possible-obviously I don't get it right all the time and equally I only have so much time in a day too(I actually work with a headset telephone these days as the phone rarely stops ringing and I need to keep working too!!)so I feel the time is right to get more information on the site AND a hard copy too in the form of a brochure/catalogue.
So...what I want to be able to convey is the capabilites of each pickup AND the possiblities of each too without it becoming a smokecreen of confusion.
It'd be nice to put together a brochure that could be used as a reference manual too, something you can keep coming back to.
So.....keep 'em coming!
-
F :censored: ck Seymour Duncan, they don't have a patent on bar graphs or any other kind of graph. They don't have a patent on scientific measurments either, I think the man feels threatend a bit. Tim, you're 'stealing' his customers. You're right about sound, it can be greatly influenced by a lot of factors. The biggest help in finding the right pickup are the sounclips IMHO.
Fender once gave away free CD's with demo's of a dozen or so of their amps on it at guitar shows. :idea: A bit expensive, maybe.
-
I thought you might be on the case :D
I reckon a simple mark out of ten for each spec to start with like on the dimarzio website, And the a brief descriptin that describes it a bit more thouroughly.
(I would still keep the original stuff you have there as its good but a thing at the bottom with the specs would be quite cool)
E.g.
Messiahbucker
The god of all hubuckers, Extreme power that is extremely articulate with angel like harmonics. ......etc
Alnico IX magnet gives a warm but expressive sound.....etc
built for guitar dueling... can kill at 100 paces
Heavy rock and expressive guitar heavy solo's :shock:
low....8 tight as a cats spincter, as well as round and full
mid....8 Full but not pokey and spiked
high....9 screaming like a the cat with a red-hot poker in its....
output....10!! Incorporates the power of God himself (miracles sold separetly) :twisted:
Just as a side note I hope that doesn'y offend anyone, but thats just my idea of a good lay-out and a cool PU
Cheers
MMM
You should get this man on board Tim! He definatly has a way with words!
-
You should get this man on board Tim! He definatly has a way with words!
He also seems to have a thing about cats bottoms....Rock on!
Edited because I spell like a three year old with ADD after eatng a bag of sugar.
-
I guess I was looking to read something relating to a certain tone of a song/album/artist.
For example, the Irish Tour set would suggest it sounds similar to Rory Gallagher, but I never heard any of his music before I purchased the pickups, so the name didn't help me that much.
When I spoke to Tim on the phone, I asked "I'm looking for great Strat tones, that can take me from Little Wing through blues/rock and pushed harder when required" - I said that I like my tone to be a little more overdriven than just pure, clean strat tones - Tim suggested the Irish Tour straight away.
I guess if I had read something similar on the site it would have saved a phone call, however, it was really good to speak to Tim on the phone as it really helped me to have more understanding of the different products available from BKP, what tones I can expect and generally have more faith in BKP products/service etc, as at that point, I'd never really heard of them, when compared to other Pickup manufacturers.
Maybe a chart of some kind on each page with comparisons to other similar BKP's listed, is: say for Strat pups you would list all the different Strat pups available, and list tech spec, as well as tone audio samples, description, what to expect in a live gig environment, studio environment etc
Knowing how the pups would cut through and be driven when required in a live set up was one of my priority questions to Tim.
Hope that helps! Sorry for garbling on... am writing this on the sly at work and trying to unload my thoughts on here as quick as possible before i get busted! Quality.....
-
I really like that idea of a line graph going through the resonance and freq's....that would be really cool and give a really detailed description in a simple form, as well as a graph of output if you can.
One probelm tho, is that Im thinking that this would take a long time which im sure tim doesn't have too much of.... Then again the website is probably the most important part of his buisiness.
I think That by naming the pickups after a particular sound that you aimed on modelling is a fantastic idea, but it might be a bit narrow for alot of players who don't have a vast range of musical knowledge or history, so If a few more examples were introduced, with the description, that might clarfiy things a bit better.
MMM
-
Tim.
Your second post on this topic would make a good blurb for a brochure.
It's non technical and would give someone a starting point if they were considering changing pickups.
Chris.
-
Something like the Seymour Duncan diagram but with 4 bars: low, low-mids, high-mids, highs + output. And detailed description like Dimarzio (that are pretty accurate).
It would be perfect.
Ced777
-
I thought you might be on the case :D
I reckon a simple mark out of ten for each spec to start with like on the dimarzio website, And the a brief descriptin that describes it a bit more thouroughly.
(I would still keep the original stuff you have there as its good but a thing at the bottom with the specs would be quite cool)
E.g.
Messiahbucker
The god of all hubuckers, Extreme power that is extremely articulate with angel like harmonics. ......etc
Alnico IX magnet gives a warm but expressive sound.....etc
built for guitar dueling... can kill at 100 paces
Heavy rock and expressive guitar heavy solo's :shock:
low....8 tight as a cats spincter, as well as round and full
mid....8 Full but not pokey and spiked
high....9 screaming like a the cat with a red-hot poker in its....
output....10!! Incorporates the power of God himself (miracles sold separetly) :twisted:
Just as a side note I hope that doesn'y offend anyone, but thats just my idea of a good lay-out and a cool PU
Cheers
MMM
Easy on the tortured cat references - some of us may be sensitive to such ideas :roll:
-
I'm sure Matt didn't field test anything with cats.
Or did he? :evil: :evil: :evil:
-
No Cats, Dogs, Elaphants, Geiraffs, Baboons, piranas, or even David hasselhoff were harmed during the course of the creating of that post!!!!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
MMM
-
Back on topic, no cats here...
How about for now listing pickups in the product page in order of power?
Eg, Stormy/Mule through to the warpig, I think that something as basic as this would help!
-
How about for now listing pickups in the product page in order of power?
Hi Hayden,
I think you need to fix your BKP listing to reflect this too :shock:
The problem with ordering them like this is that it would need to allow for the differnet magnets in each pickup too. Tim just gives way too many options (not really Tim, I think it is great to have all this choice :mrgreen: )
No big eyed cats or hamsters in sellotape here either :haha:
Cheers
Phil
-
Just had a thought,
maybe you could have a sort of internet based program called something like.....
"Still Confused or Unsure about which Pickup is right for you? Then try our web based pickup finder and see what we find would be right for you?"
Than have a series of movable sliders that people can move to what they want in a pickup. This can then be looked at by BKP as to a more accurate idea of what the customer wants and give a slightly more educated guess. it could even be automated so you dont have to worry about reply directly to it.
Also It could help in winding custom PU's for each particular customer?
just an expansion on the idea of having a fixed bar graph type thing for each product.
Anyway hope it helps
MMM
-
on the digitech website, they have flash demo's of their pedals, so you can hear the sample both effected and uneffected. this is maybe a bit complex, but it could provide a way to have online A/B comparisons of BKP's against stock pickups. It would be convincing, i reckon, to the average internet shopper. Lets face it, most people (or at least me) view the words from the manufacturer with quite a dose of cynicism. :wink:
also, does anyone else think that underlining the versatility of the pickups may actually undermine them a bit? some people may end up getting confused that the warpig can do jazz etc, or may be sceptical and think the pickups are a 'jack of all trades' rather than a specialised thing. after all, why have Owen Hargreaves when you can have Steven Gerrard? personally, i love the versatility of my VHII's, i was just wondering how it would look from a sales perspective.
Anyway, when do we all get our wages? :P
-
I would say the guitar they are going to be installed in (wood, pots or anything else that may affect the sound), what music is going to be played ?. In a way too much information can be confusing, keep it simple. The greatest Chef's as the greatest Taylor's do seize you up, ask maybe a couple of questions here and there and that's it. They go on to create. :roll:
-
It would be a nice idea if you compare the different pickups(magnets,harmonic content etc.) so as to provide a more deep description on each pickup. Maybe showing treble,bass,mid response. Definately, stating what they would do on different type of woods. Also you could say which styles will the pickup better work on(although i know this could be confusing cause some do it all). And also maybe making a comparison to an artist that the pickup might sound like, or maybe a song or specific piece of music that can show it.
-
I've always wanted to see a standard frequency response graph used in relation to pickups. Like the speaker makers use.
I want see where the resonant peak is and what it looks like.
-
Would not be too expensive from the point of view of the maker?
-
The thing I don't like about the B M T bar graphs is a manufacturer could have half a dozen humbuckers with at or around, say, Bass 6 Mids 5.5 Treble 6 and they can sound very different.
-
The thing I don't like about the B M T bar graphs is a manufacturer could have half a dozen humbuckers with at or around, say, Bass 6 Mids 5.5 Treble 6 and they can sound very different.
Yes - I agree. I find that a mule can seem to have as much punch as a miracle man , but in a slightly different way.Any ratings system is fraught with comprimise and manufacturers juat have to take the best all round solution.
Luckily all the BKPs sound good :D
-
The thing I don't like about the B M T bar graphs is a manufacturer could have half a dozen humbuckers with at or around, say, Bass 6 Mids 5.5 Treble 6 and they can sound very different.
You're right. It's why I would prefer at least a 4 bar graphs, with separation between low mid (Custom) and High mids (JB) for example. And an accurate description of the PUs. (juste the 4 bars is far from enough)
-
:guitar4: Hi Guys :D
Lots of good advice here Tim, i really like the idea of a "still Confused about what P/U you need one of the big problems i get when talking to players [especially the younger ones] is trying to get them to think about what kind of sound or tone they hear in there head. they have a tendancey to try to copy the players they admire most based on wether they think the said players are any good or not. :evil:
what they should be doing is listening to the tone or sound players get. even if they are not the kind of player you as a guitarist like Example: i really like Toni Iommi of Black Sabbath but i think he`s guitar sound is absolutley S**T !! [except the Heaven & Hell album] just because i like the player doesn`t mean i want to sound like him! 8)
You should include a brief discription of the magnets and what they can do to the tone [Alnico I - V] you should include a guide to what kind of woods P/U`s will respond to best and why ! [your advice on what magnets to have in single coils for strats based on what type of neck/finger board is a great example of this] You should try to avoid pigeon holeing your P/U`s the example you give of Jazz players in France really liking the Warpig is a good example. you should include that quote on the promotions. it helps show guitarist that they can experiment and get what they hear in there head. the guitars reveiwed in guitar buyer the semi acoustic loaded with Miracle Mans !! is another fine example of this. i tell you what sound i hear in my head you tell me what P/U will give me that Tone regardless of what type of music i make !!
8)
:D :D :D
-
well how about smaller descriptions and more mp3's of each of the pickups. I think having samples of LP's and RG's with the same clean/rhythm/lead settings on the amp with the clips going from blues to rock to metal etc. Obviously giving a list of settings, mics you used to give people an idea. People can say all you want about a pickup, but until you hear it, it is impossible to tell if your gonna like it.
-
I'm no graphic designer, but how about something like this?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/TwilightOdyssey/BPKChart.jpg)
-
I think the problem is the interaction between magnet and coils. Look at the Alnico II for example. Between a V-shaped (hollow mids) Alnico 2 Pro tone, and a U-reversed shaped (mid spike) Custom Custom tone, there is a huge difference, but it's always an Alnico II magnet !!
I may be wrong, but I don't think this kind of diagram is realistic. :?
-
I may be wrong, but I don't think this kind of diagram is realistic. :?
Maybe not. I made allowances for these changes in my diagram now ...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/TwilightOdyssey/BPKChartv2.jpg)
You can fit a lot of info into a small space.
-
Damn TO boy, you're good at this stuff. Where'd you learn to do that?!
This is starting to come together now, I still need to get to the bottom of what makes sense to the 'majority' of players and I think we have to start from the'I know nothing' position' and try to work up from that. Granted most players have quite a bit of technical knowledge by the time they get to swapping out p/ups but there are SO many myths floating around out there about pickups,winding,magnets,timbers and so on that we need to start at the beginning.
-
Damn TO boy, you're good at this stuff. Where'd you learn to do that?!
LOL, thank you, Tim :)
Fer my day gig I do audio design work, and it involves a lot of technical drawing ... The actual DATA in the chart is cr@p, but that's the visual idea that I had. :D
-
Aaaw and I was hoping to use the punch in a nutsack bit too :lol:
You got me thinking now!
-
Any way I can be of assistance, just let me know. If you would like to see the same idea with specific wording, just let me know and I'll make a mock up for ya!!
-
Cool,I'll try and solidify my ideas and the suggestions from the forum into something and mail it over to see what you can do. PDT_015
-
I think that you should give a reference to how each pickup will sound, just as a quick guide.
IE: Trilogy Suites - Modern Strat sound for high gain players, think of Strat like clarity with the power of a humbucker
WarPigs - As dirty as your wife and you know it, this pickup will tear you a new arsehole...You$%&#in'knowsit! (please use that one)
Andy!
-
I may be wrong, but I don't think this kind of diagram is realistic. :?
Maybe not. I made allowances for these changes in my diagram now ...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/TwilightOdyssey/BPKChartv2.jpg)
You can fit a lot of info into a small space.
Instead of an Maple body you might want to replace it with Ash.
Also, hows about soundclips of each pickup, but each pickup plays the same riff and solo through the same amp?
For example for all the clean settings you could use the intro to Little Wing and then for all the distorted settings you could use a Metallica song or something.
Andy!
-
Instead of an Maple body you might want to replace it with Ash.
Why not just add it to what we already have? It's only a visual interpretation of something I dreamed up in my head, ya know.
-
I'm probably a bit late in throwing my tuppence but here goes.
Personally I think it's too subjective for graphs alone, the SD site in particular means nothing to me when I look at the graphs, and the sound clips don't cover enough ground to form any sort of useful opinion.
Rather than graphs, which don't really describe the sound (to me), plus so many of the pickups may look too similar to PAFs anyway based on graphs alone.
So why not simply state the original intent of the pickup, tell us why it was designed in the first place.
Then list some reference points for tone, and what will (usually) happen when a different body material / shape is used.
Perhaps adding something like may have too much high end when coupled with a maple bodied guitar or too dark for semis or whatever.
Name : Mule
Original intent : 59 PAF style tone for Mahogany LP style
Tone : Richer & sweeter than current Gibson xxxx pickups
Reccomended for : LP, SG, 335 for Classic Blues Rock tones
Peavey Wolfgang for tighter bottom end and improved middle.
S Type for xxxxx
Reference Points: xxx by Goverment Mule - Gibson LP
xxx by ZZ Top - Gibson LP
xxx by Cream - Gibson 335
Related Pickups: VH II, Stormy Monday, Emerald
Just a thought,
Kilby...
-
Direct comparisons are not a good idea; that's how you get your ass sued off.
-
I think it's a good idea to say what the inspirations were behind the pickup and wich goal was set. But you can't use direct comparison (unless it's purely scientiffic).
-
Direct comparisons are not a good idea; that's how you get your ass sued off.
Hmmm,
I understand your concern but,
firstly
It's only a 'something like this' kind of suggestion, nothing has to be mentioned by name.
secondly
It's as a reference point only which is permissible
For example SD don't can say "Extra output and fuller tonal response than stock JaguarŪ pickups" because it is the only that a potential buyer can actually know what the product is supposed to do.
As far as I remember in the UK (and the US) you are allowed to name a product if its for purely illustrative purposes, as you are not actually stating finding any product worse or better, but simply different to with the 'stock' being used as the reference point.
Thats why magazines are allowed to do reviews and the words apparent and opinion appear in print so often.
Kilby...
-
There is a lot of useful stuff here.I would say that TO's excellent graphics could be generated by some real measurements with a narrative of the aim of that particular model ( I am drawing froms other's suggestions here) .I liked the idea of including the effect of different woods. It is, after all, to provide a guide. The graphics would be useful if they also included other manufacturers products but that would be a massive undertaking perhaps best left to someone not busily making pickups for us lot. At the end of the day, facts and figures cannot describe tone but at the same time, someone looking for pickups would at least have a guide. Another point I would make is that we need to think about how we arrived at our own choices. Why are we all on this forum- because we have heard the buzz, read the reviews, read the blurb. Sorry for the waffle- I am too excited about getting my Strat back from Ron with the Apaches fitted in a couple of days.
-
As far as I remember in the UK (and the US) you are allowed to name a product if its for purely illustrative purposes, as you are not actually stating finding any product worse or better, but simply different to with the 'stock' being used as the reference point.
2 dangers with that line of thought, Kilby:
ONE - it's just bad form, and sounds tacky, imho
TWO - you're skirting dangerously close to being sued for misrepresentation, libel, restraint of trade, or any of a number of other things. All a big company, like DiMarzio, has to do if they want to shut down a small compnay like Tim's is keep him tied up with court costs until he can't fight em any more. They've done it before, and won. Monster Cable has done the same.
Sorry, not only do I work for an attorney during my day gig, but the singer in my band works in intellectual properties; I have a very suspicious legal mind.
-
Good point and I'm not into advertising other manufacturers either directly or indirectly.
I'm more keen on descriptive methods and the areas of tone that people want described.
-
Good point and I'm not into advertising other manufacturers either directly or indirectly.
I'm more keen on descriptive methods and the areas of tone that people want described.
Whatever I can do to help, Tim!
I live to serve. :)
-
Sounds like a lyric to me :lol:
-
Good point and I'm not into advertising other manufacturers either directly or indirectly.
I'm more keen on descriptive methods and the areas of tone that people want described.
As I said it was only a suggestion to allow some form of visualising (how can you visualise a sound) the tone of the pickup.
The intent was not other pickup mfgrs but more to give a reference to a standard guitar straight off the shelf.
Most of us think that they know what a stock guitar of a particular model will sound like. Thats also why we always end up spending money on the damn things buying replacement pickups.
Anyway it was only one thought of several, and nothing to get precious about :)
At this point in time I am surprised that DiMazio & SD havn't started suing people for using particular gauges of copper wireor that Gibson will start suing people for using Mahogany.
Hmmm europe give the Americas VD and they give us litigation, surely that was an over reaction ;)
Kilby...
-
Does anybody remember the Gibson lawsuit against PRS?
I rest my case. 8)
-
Does anybody remember the Gibson lawsuit against PRS?
I rest my case. 8)
Is that still ongoing?
-
Gibson won the first. PRS isn't allowed to make the Single Cut anymore. I believe they're taking it to the Supreme Court.
-
That's what I heard too....guess it'll be a long time!
-
Gibson completely overreacted IMO, the PRS Singlecut was more of a threat to their sales than copyright infringement. Plus the fact that PRS's Quality Control actually control's the quality of their products, Gibson's QC is more like Questionable Care. Again, IMO. ;)
Back to the topic...
The SD graph thing, I find it totally confusing basing a tonal judgement on subjective data (IMO). I find the current descriptions to be really halpful, they were right on the nail with the Black Dog set I bought a while back. The body wood info should help (and maybe avoid any brand name copyright issues, ie well suited to a mahogany body with maple top, or would suit an ash/alder/basswood body with rosewood 'board, etc).
The current descriptions and resistance figures are pretty spot on IMO. :?
-
Is that cat alive or dead?
-
If it's anything like our cat, it's fast asleep after a hard day of being cute.
It's a hard life.
-
I'm in the process of redesigning the pickup descriptions both for the website and for a brochure. What would you find most useful in the descriptions:
applications< suggested positions<suitability to different timbers<comparitive power ratings etc>
Let me know!
i think suitability to different timbers would be good, seeing as different woods give off different sounds :D Also the idea about the different pickups in different styles of guitars seems like a good idea to me!
-
I find the most important info concerns the actual method of wiring.Quite often just being left to sort out the correct wires and pots can cause a decent pick-up doomed to failure.
-
I like the body wood idea, but not the "suitabile for whatever style", that might "pigeon hole" people's expectations of the pickup. There again it may be an excellent guide. :?:
How about online registration of pickups?
-
I don't know a lot about the details of pickup construction (though that sort of thing is probably useful serious gear nuts!) but I do know something about what kind of sound I want to hear coming out when I pluck a string :).
I guess most people looking to get new pups have a tone in their head they want to hear, or a particular disatisfaction with their existing tone they are looking to doctor. They'll say "I've got a Strat and am seeking an SRV kinda tone (with maybe a bit more low end)" or "my stock humbuckers lack definition at high gain" or something. Presumably you designers have a similar feeling that leads you design the pickup in the first place -- if you already had what you wanted, you wouldn't need to make something new! :)
I wouldn't want to get hung up on "suitable for style X" descriptions, but it's useful when scanning over a wide range of pickups; it's obviously useful to get a sense of "we were thinking about X kinda sounds when we designed this". The names are kind of a guide here, and I think knowing why you BKP guys designed a particular pickup will tell me much more than "this pickup is suitable for metal" or something generic like that.
Obviously, the amp and the fingers are a big component of any tone, on beyond the guitar and pickup, but as a person shopping for pickups, I'm interested in knowing about things like their relative outputs (in case I'm not getting 2 pickups of the same model), where the emphases are in terms of highs/lows/mids, and how the definition is at different leavels of gain, how things differ in bridge or neck or whatever -- the chart with info for different guitar body materials (Gibson LP/SG types, Strat types, PRS types, etc.) looks pretty useful in this context.
I've understand the dissatisfaction some people have mentioned about pickup clips where the same riff is played through different pickups, but I think I have to disagree to some extent -- I think it would very useful to hear very short clips that did some very brief chord and lead work (just a few chords or notes) of different pickups on clean and dirt for a given guitar and very vanilla amp (or amp sim). I've been sticking different BKP MP3 clips in my machine's iTunes so I can A-B the clips get a stronger sense for the sounds (though I spend a lot of time wondering about how the guitar body or amp settings affect the tone -- so in this case the clips Tim did of the Mule and Nailbomb and whatnot all at a similar time with similar amp settings are pretty useful!). Maybe this kind of sample comparison would be most useful for pickups that seem more closely "related"; I'm at least less likely to be wondering which of the Country Boy tele pup or the Warpig humbucker are best suited for my guitar :) but I might want a better understanding of the nuances diffentiating the Warpig vs. Miracle Man, or the Country Boy vs. The Boss.
Mmm, enough rambling! I'm just another musician (very slack musician, in this case :)) trying to figure out how to best upgrade his hardware to get a sound more like he wants. I'm sure once I've lurked enough, listened enough, and asked enough dumb questions I'll have a better idea :)
Cheers,
Carl
-
Thanks for the input Carl-keep it coming guys, there's some good ideas coming out.
-
How about some sort of computer program on the website wich can guide you to the right pickup. By answering a number of multiple choise questions. Questions like: what kind of guitar, what kind of wood, music styles, sort of tone etc. After finishing all the questions you'll end up with a small number of pickups wich might suit.
(Nice job for Ol)
-
How about some sort of computer program on the website wich can guide you to the right pickup...
(Nice job for Ol)
Thanks! :wallbash: :D:D
Ol.
-
Or, now get this one for innovativeness...
..why don't people who want to buy the BKP's, ask current users and owners of BKP's what the pickups sound like through the forum.
On that note, anyone got clips of the Trilogy Suites?
Andy!
-
I've not got the trilogies loaded in a strat anymore, took teh middle and put it in my Nailbomb RG. They're very similar to teh Uber Single coils that Hayden's got. There's a little solo using the trilogies in one of my demos I did for Keeley, somewher on the players forum.
-
Or, now get this one for innovativeness...
..why don't people who want to buy the BKP's, ask current users and owners of BKP's what the pickups sound like through the forum.
On that note, anyone got clips of the Trilogy Suites?
Andy!
That was the general idea behind the forum-get you all self educating, finding out who's got what etc
I think both HJM and Hayden have posted Trilogy clips in the players room-UBERcoils are Trilogy Suite coils.
-
That was the general idea behind the forum-get you all self educating, finding out who's got what etc
With the side effect that we all drive eachother nuts and want to buy more BKP's. :twisted:
-
That's the plan my evil henchman :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :lol:
Seriously though I wanted to get more feedback from players to back up my own player's intuition(Cue TNT track)and follow what was going on better.
-
It's great to see a company that's close to it's customers. Keeps customers loyal.
I've only been to the local Mustang garage two times plus one meeting they organized and they already know me by name. I like that a lot.
I bet Joe Naylor still knows me too as one of his first Wolfman customers.
Will you be at any Dutch guitar shows, Tim?
-
What,when,where are they?
-
Or, now get this one for innovativeness...
..why don't people who want to buy the BKP's, ask current users and owners of BKP's what the pickups sound like through the forum.
On that note, anyone got clips of the Trilogy Suites?
Andy!
That was the general idea behind the forum-get you all self educating, finding out who's got what etc
I think both HJM and Hayden have posted Trilogy clips in the players room-UBERcoils are Trilogy Suite coils.
Hmmmm I'll have a dig about...
I hope to contribute a lot to this forum, that's if I can actually raise some cash to buy my first set of BKP's.
Andy!
-
What,when,where are they?
I'll get back to you on that. Have to do some research.
-
These are the two biggest.
Sena Guitar Awards 29 and 30 november 2005 in Rosmalen
www.sga.guitars.nl
Gitaarbeurs Groesbeek febuary 5th 2006 in Groesbeek
www.gitaarbeurs.nl
-
why don't people who want to buy the BKP's, ask current users and owners of BKP's what the pickups sound like through the forum. On that note, anyone got clips of the Trilogy Suites?
Well, yes :) And on a similar note, anyone got a Warpig in a Les Paul or other mahogany-bodied guitar? Tim has kindly provided demos of the Miracle Man in an LP, though the Warpig demos from Ratrod and Leafy-dono were in an Ibanez and Yamaha SG respectively if I remember aright. You haven't got yet another LP with a Warpig in it somewhere, have you Tim? ;) Then again, the both bridge and neck solos in the Miracle Man demo were cut with the SD1 on, while the neck solo on the Mule demo was cut minus SD1 so I'm not always sure which sublties of sound to distinguish between pickups I should be listening for ....
-
Good point, but in defence the Mule is a differnt beast to the Miracle Man, and the neck pickups is so clear and open it's a shame to cover it in gain!
-
I was hoping for a good clip of Feline's Gothic SG with Warpigs.
-
Good point, but in defence the Mule is a differnt beast to the Miracle Man, and the neck pickups is so clear and open it's a shame to cover it in gain!
Actually, I was wondering what the Miracle Man neck sounded like without being covered in gain :) (appropriate though it may be to cover the MM in gain!)
The Mule neck does indeed sound lovely (which is why I wondered about a MM or WP bridge/Mule neck pairing, despite the difference in output, in order to aim for a Zakkoid-Iommi-esque "Saturn V engine just fell on you" bridge sound but a smoother creamier more Santanaish neck sound. PhilKing's Alnico V Miracle Man is an interesting neck idea (with an output that would presumably be a bit closer to the Warpig) .... A higher gain Santanaish sound? Maybe that's a Roy Z sound :). He plays a 70s gold top LP, as I recall :)
-
My MM clip, apparently, isn't that gainy!! I thought I had a perfectly serviceable metal tone, until Tim said it was a great 'medium overdrive' sound. D'OH!!!! PDT_032
Check it out, that may answer your question.
-
BTW, who's the unlucky person that has to sort through this thread for the useful bits?? :?:
-
I've begun to wonder if some clips of pickups doing unexpected things wouldn't be at least almost as useful to potential buyers as clips of the pickups in their "home territory". For example, I have no doubt that the Warpig can dish out serious "Sabbath on steroids" crunch, but though the Total Guitar review tells me it also sounds really sweet when clean, it would be interesting to actually hear it clean :). Conversely, the Apaches surely ring and twang like anything; what happens when they go through ridiculous gain?
Those may sound like unrealistic, useless examples at first, but I started wondering about this sort of thing when Tim was talking about playing Ozzmosis shows with the Mules and the Zeppoid bluesy clip that Leafy-dono recorded. And I do wonder how the Warpig cleans up! :)
-
I like that idea Carlaz. Maybe I'll record a little clean ballad with my Warpig.
-
Me, too ... NOT!!!!!!!!!! :evil:
-
If anyone could do the same sort of thing with a nailbomb that would be cool!
Be nice to hear it doing cleans, crunchy kinda classic and metal...
No worries if not though, probably more fun finding out myself! :twisted: