Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: Alfi27 on July 19, 2016, 06:20:59 PM
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Hello!
Going to pick up a Charvel So-Cal tomorrow, my first Floyd-equipped guitar in a few years. Luckily it has been upgraded with a Gotoh Floyd, but it still has the stock Dimarzios. I am also in the very fortunate situation that I can try some of the most suitable pickups in the guitar first hand: An Abraxas set and a Holydiver bridge. I do however have another candidate for the job: a VHII set. I have tried that set in a PRS Mira before, and I cannot say that I was particularly impressed really. Maybe because it sounded very similar to the stock pickups, and the guitar was naturally quite thin and bright sounding. The guitar has an alder body and a quartersawn, 1-piece maple neck.
I have to admit that this purchase is not entirely unrelated to my recent obsession with Steel Panther... It will be my go-to hair metal guitar, but it has to be versatile as well. Even though I am starting to wonder if that is even a question with BPKs, the last ones I have had were extremely versatile regardless of output.
So, what do you think? I will know much more after I have tried it with my pickups of course, but what are your experiences with pickups for super strats like this? I read some people love the Miracle Man in super strats as well, but I don't think it is for me.
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The Miracle Man is indeed good in a Superstrat and has a lot in common with a Holydiver but in this case I believe a Holydiver itself is exactly what you need.
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That was my initial thought as well, I will certainly give it a try! Even though the Abraxas is not the typical hair metal/80's rock pickup I love the versatile, driven and open tones from it. I have also heard great things about its performance in alder bolt-ons. That being said, I have been biased towards the "wrong" pickup before... My Abraxas' are also covered, so I am not sure if I can make them fit in the pickguard. Shipping them to the UK for cover removal is certainly not an option either, haha. I know this kind of "shouldn't be spoken of" due to BKPs policy (a little bit silly policy if you ask me, no offence). But if I decide to remove the covers; should they be rewaxed when I put them back on?
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I'd be really surprised if the Holy Diver did not give you what you want. Keep the covered Abraxas set for something else, they will go well in many different guitars
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I agree with Agent Orange. The Holydiver is an ideal choice here, for both the guitar and musical style, while the Abraxas is extremely flexible so can be used elsewhere. It seems to have a wider operating window in terms of style and doesn't appear to be too fussy with regard to the guitar it's in so it makes sense to simply use it for something else as you have a Holydiver there anyway.
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I 've got experience with both HD and MM in superstrats. I would say that both had a lot in common but the HD is more versatile, more classic (though being modern), is the pickup for all these hard rockers in the 80s that had not enough with their current pickups and the HD is that step towards "modernity". You can cover from fat blues to metal. But for me then came the Miracle Man, for all these that said "ok, great pickup, but I need even more!". Of course MM is named after Zakk Wylde, but for me is the pickup to get closer to George Lynch tones. For me George Lynch was the heaviest guitarist of the 80s but was imprisoned in the hair metal movement. You can get close to his tone with the HD, but my experience is that the extra heaviness and aggression, this feeling of being on the verge of feedback, is easier to get with the MM. Of course you will lose versatility with the MM.
I have a fender strat with HD bridge and Irisht tour in middle and neck, and is my allrounder guitar. I can play almost everything. But then I have an Ibanez rg with a MM and is the perfect combination for this "heavier side of the 80s and beyond". And I don't mean only Metallica, Slayer, Pantera,... but, as I said before, this "Lynch-esque" kind of sound that had a lot in common with the HD, still thick but slimmer and edgier.
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Thanks a lot for your advice! The reason why I want to try both is that I will most likely buy a new set, because I prefer open reverse zebra coils and the Holydiver bridge pickup has larger holes that does not fit regular screws (has been direct wood mounted). I totally agree that the HD in theory should be the best match, but when I have the opportunity to try both it would be a bit silly not to imo. Maybe the seller is wrong as well, that a covered pickup might fit. I will pick it up later today and I will most likely try the Diver in there first :smiley:
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I'd have thought that making the scratchplate slightly bigger would be a reasonably straightforward modification.
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Your Charvel seems to be the type of guitar that the HD is aimed at but I'd really curious about how the Abraxas set would sound considering they seem to sound great in just about anything.
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It would be an interesting comparison. I'm guessing the Abraxas would sound very similar, just a bit more vintage and a shade softer in the bass. TBH, I see the ideal 80s Metal pickup as an Abraxas with an AV magnet because where the Holydiver drifts away from the 80s Metal sound is its use of a hotter wind and 44AWG wire. Ideal 80s Metal tone, to me at least, is an AV magnet wound with 43AWG wire to a DC resistance of 13-14K.
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Alright, so I got the guitar home today! I couldn't play even one song with the original pickup (it only has a bridge pickup) before I found my soldering iron and installed the Diver. The Diver certainly is a huge improvement, where the Tone Zone is overly bassy and muddy the Diver is very balanced and nice. However, being used to the sound of my very powerful and huge sounding Gibson R0 the tone is a little disappointing to be perfectly honest... That is an issue I have had before, having a really hard time getting used to the more "scratchy" and less full-bodied tones of an alder guitar compared to my mahogny guitars. I will have it around for a couple of days, and we will see. The guitar is very cool though, almost an exact replica of Gary Moore's Charvel! :smiley:
(https://images.finncdn.no/dynamic/1280w/2016/7/vertical-5/18/6/791/937/96_1148444652.jpg)
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I liked the fullness of the Holy Diver but it lacks the rawness of (as Slarti pointed out) 43AWG. It's not an "angry" pickup, actually I found the Abraxas to have even more edge than the Holy Diver. That's why I prefer the Miracle Man over the Holy Diver for 80s metal. I know the Miracle Man has not 43AWG but the ceramic magnet adds some bite. The Rebel Yell is a great 43AWG pickup for 80s metal, but I only tried it in a Les Paul and I can imagine that in less full bodied guitars it may not work the same way.
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Yeah the Diver doesn't bite like most alnico V pickups I have tried, and certainly nothing like the Rebel Yell. Sick lead tones though, certainly one of the best bridge pickups for leads in the BKP range! I have decided to try the Abraxas set in the guitar though, with some push pull fun. If it sounds great I might just remove the covers and keep them that way, even though it will look a bit odd with gold polepieces and chrome hardware :laugh:
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That seems understandable and it was that lack of 'hair' in the Holydiver that eventually led me to find another solution to my quest for 80s Metal tone. You seem to be responding in a similar way to me so based on that I would expect you to prefer the Abraxas.
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Yeah, we'll see. The Holydiver certainly sounds very good, and I could easily keep the guitar this way, but I need a neck pickup as well. And if I am being really, and I mean really picky, it might be a tad too smooth and compressed. The Rebel Yell is more in the lines of my ideal 80's pickup, but I know it will be too bright for this guitar. I understand the Nailbomb is closely related to the Rebel Yell, but maybe not suited for this guitar either? Too bad BKP doesn't swap magnets anymore, an Alnico V Abraxas would probably be the bomb for this axe!
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Personally I would just shove a Miracle Man in it, cleans be damned
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What about a neck Miracle Man in the bridge position? I was actually thinking about it but I figured it might be too compressed. I do like the Suhr Aldrich bridge pickup though.
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I love the Holy Diver Calibrated set (Trilogy Suite Middle) in my Charvel. for me it's very versatile to cover many styles. Unless your using the exact equipment "back in the '80,s" for me it was Duncan Distortion and Marshall Superlead with a Tube Screamer or Boss Super Overdrive to hit the front. The MM didn't appeal to me, frequency-wise and I've tried All of the BK pickups (Wonderful Builder!) So I just tried to do the best that I can with what I have.
(http://i.imgur.com/SUzvwb8.jpg)
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Wow! That is just a sick rig. I bet the Friedman and Soldano sound unreal! Cool guitar as well, and even though HSH is not my favorite setup it is certainly the most versatile.
I just figured out something strange with my Charvel: the tone actually has a bit less highs and significantly less upper mids compared to my massive Gibson Les Paul R0, so it seems darker overall! Which leads me to the question: would a brighter pickup be the answer here? I can of course change the profile on my Kemper to a profile of a much brighter amp, but I like to keep it simple in a gig context. Honestly I do not think the Rebel Yell would be a good match, but I certainly need something brighter and more biting than the Holydiver! Does not need to be super high output either, maybe a VHII?
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That Charvel is very reminiscent of the Adrian Smith Jackson. There's something about a white guitar with a black scratchplate and maple neck that really does something for me! If I ever change my white Strat into HSS, it's getting a black scratchplate and black pickups.
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For my Charvel I'm using the Schaller Mega-E Switch (I can split the coils in any configuration) which is very versatile and sounds awesome! I also play a lot of Jazz with the Charvel so the Neck-Humbucker sounds beautiful and one of the best "distorted tone neck pup" I love the Holy Diver in that guitar as a "SuperStrat" it has a very "singing voice" which can also be aggressive depending on how you articulate. As far as Les Pauls I have a Historical '59 Murphy with Mules which I like for more of a vintage vibe, but in my Les Paul Custom the Rebel Yell sound pretty killer with the Ebony Fretboard, although I'm not as into the Les Paul as Strat type guitars.
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My '59 Historical "Looks nice" sounds good.
(http://i.imgur.com/Mr5gHuw.jpg)
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I bet! The Soldano SLO is on my future must-have list!
Tried the Abraxas (bridge only) in the Charvel now, and I had to remove the cover to make it fit. After discovering that huge amount of wax underneath the cover I started to think that I might have made a mistake... Well, I certainly did not! I think it sounds much better in this guitar than the Diver did. The low end is huge, but controlled. There is more high and mid-mids, as well as more high end. It should also be mentioned that I changed the pot as well, from one that read 465k to one at 512k.
The Abraxas has some qualities I have never heard in another pickup before: it sounds driven, full, and even a little bit aggressive at the same time! Very hard to explain, I strongly advice those of you who have not tried the Abraxas to do so ASAP! It is not a picky pickup either, unless your guitar is extremely bright or extremely dark it will most likely work very well! I cannot say I miss a neck pickup either, this is a true 80's rock guitar and they didn't use the neck pickup back then :laugh:
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Alfi27 for the last 10+yrs my goto amp was the "SLO" I've own all the other amps (Bogner, CAA, VHT, etc) plus so many Modified Marshall's (Arrendondo, Cameron, Suhr, Bogner, Soldano) My "All-time" favorite is definitely the Friedman BE100 and it's also modified by Dave Friedman for me. The best of "Marshall & Fender" Plexi/JTM45/JCM800/Twin/Super Reverb/Deluxe. I use what works for me and in the studio every subtle change makes a difference, Live is a different matter and also sound amazing.
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Tried the Abraxas (bridge only) in the Charvel now, and I had to remove the cover to make it fit. After discovering that huge amount of wax underneath the cover I started to think that I might have made a mistake... Well, I certainly did not! I think it sounds much better in this guitar than the Diver did. The low end is huge, but controlled. There is more high and mid-mids, as well as more high end. It should also be mentioned that I changed the pot as well, from one that read 465k to one at 512k.
The Abraxas has some qualities I have never heard in another pickup before: it sounds driven, full, and even a little bit aggressive at the same time! Very hard to explain, I strongly advice those of you who have not tried the Abraxas to do so ASAP! It is not a picky pickup either, unless your guitar is extremely bright or extremely dark it will most likely work very well! I cannot say I miss a neck pickup either, this is a true 80's rock guitar and they didn't use the neck pickup back then :laugh:
This is very much as I expected and seems to prove my point. It's the 43AWG wire that makes all the difference here in my opinion. I really liked the Holydiver but eventually sold it because it lacked that bit of hair, aggression and drive you get from 43AWG. I eventually went with a pickup that was just a shade lighter in wind than the Abraxas with an AV magnet and I found perfection. I only ever buy bridge humbuckers now with 43AWG.
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"Nothing is perfect" and absolute!
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Well, despite looking I've never found better for that particular tone.
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Gary Moore one of the "Very Best" guitarist.
(http://i.imgur.com/vpAfC25.jpg)
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My favourite guitarist. Gary Moore just had everything; a real guitar god.
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Gary Moore is without doubt one of the greatest guitarists of all time! Great combination of feel and speed. My Charvel is identical except for the matching headstock, but I want it to be "inspired by" rather than an exact replica.
Speaking of which, I do actually consider to try a Rebel Yell in it as well. The Abraxas is great, but it is certainly not too bright so it would be interesting just to try. It won't cost me a dime either, but it is not very tempting to "disassemble" the best sounding rock guitar I own :laugh:
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Alfi it's fun to try different pups but I know what you mean about your best sounding guitar and taking apart. I've read that many feel the RY is Bright sounding in an Alder body, but you never know and if your amp is a little on the bright side, might be a great fit! I did the same as you with my Fender Strat kind of like Claptons "Blackie" but I installed a humbucker, my preference.
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It certainly is fun! The guitar is surprisingly dark for an alder body and one piece maple neck guitar actually, without doubt the darkest Strat type guitar I have ever owned. None of them had a Floyd though, so I am pretty sure that is the reason. Mine is MIJ, but these days they are made in Mexico at the same factory as the Mexican Fenders so they probably use the same wood. The guitar is also the lightest Strat type guitar I have owned, at 3.4 kg! A Floyd is heavier than a standard Strat tremolo as well, so it is not bad at all.
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I figured that I should ask BKP themselves what they would recommend when the Holydiver is too dark. Ben said that the Holydiver is the number one choice for Charvels, but if I need more attack and cut he recommended to go down the ceramic route with a Cold Sweat or C-Bomb. That is an answer I did not expect, I was very certain he would recommend the VHII. Well, what do you guys think?
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The Cold Sweat is certainly brighter but like the C-Bomb, it's a very different beast to the Holydiver. I always think of a number of pickups being closely connected in style and in approximate order of vintage to modern I'd say Black Dog, Abraxas, Crawler, Holydiver and Miracle Man. All are smooth and have quite a rich tone so share some core DNA and of that lot, I'd expect the Black Dog to be the brightest.
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A small update: The original pickup that was in the Charvel, the Tone Zone, has an Alnico V magnet. So guess what I did? :laugh: That's right! The Abraxas now sports an Alnico V magnet, and it sounds awesome! I will post a clip later today. They should seriously offer the Abraxas with an Alnico V option. I also put the Alnico IV magnet in a Gibson 498T just for fun, so I expect that one to sound better as well!
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Which only goes to prove what I was saying - a pickup wound with 43AWG to about 13-14K with an AV magnet will give you a far more authentic 80s Metal sound than the Holydiver. What you now have is the pickup I believe the Holydiver should be. Congratulations :grin:
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The Holy Diver is great pickup and works very well in my Charvel, I also own A Custom Shop Strat and I have a Black Dog in that and Both sound "amazing through my gear" because I wanted one to be a SuperStrat and the other Vintage is the reason I went that route. In the recording studios that I work in everyday, clients ask for a "Time authentic" tone and it's there in the studio where I can hear every detail I chose those pups. I've tried All of the BKP products and unless I use the exact gear that I used in the '80s (Duncan Distortion/Marshall MKII/Ibanez TS or Boss SOD) I know it be won't be absolutely accurate. I go with my experience knowing great tone and I wouldn't try to Impose my Opinion on anyone, "I spend my time making music". Go with your ears, style, equipment to decide which to choose.
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The guitar had to go unfortunately... Even with the Alnico V Abraxas the tone was very dark, and even a bit muddy. I think the guitar would work very well with a bright pickup like the Rebel Yell, but the guitar had to go anyway because I just had to buy that SG 61 RI... I think that the Charvel was my last kind of "horsing around" before I figured out that I am a Gibson man by heart and soul. I have owned so many cool guitars, from Suhr to PRS and lots of other stuff, but even though one of the Suhrs and all the PRS' had mahogany bodys they just didn't sound quite right either. I would love to give PRS a new shot though, magnificent guitars not too far away from the Gibson vibe. Thanks a lot to all of you, for your contributions and suggestions nevertheless!
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Alfi27 "Good Luck" in your search, I've always had the good fortune to find great guitars (now 500+) I started out on a Gibson SG "Special" with P90 pups and I would love to get that one back for the memories? I do find guys like Gary Moore, John Sykes, John Norum, Zakk Wylde to have "Killer Tones" from their LP's and Gibson still has this great history.
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Hi, may i ask you which pickup when you mention abraxas with lighter wind? that is indeed sound like perfection :) thx