Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: gwEm on July 27, 2016, 12:14:34 PM
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So a slide wrongly came up on one of my regular ebay searches for some reason. A Jim Dunlop 202 - medium regular glass slide for Ģ4.99.
I decided to impulse buy it and was playing around with it all last night. This thing is an absolute hoot, and I definitely recommend one to every player.
Obviously I need to work on my technique more, because I'm still very sloppy, but nevertheless I was able to make some decent noises after about 15mins or so with it.
I tried each finger to see which I preferred, and I feel that my smallest finger (pinky) is going to work out the best for me.
As such, the medium regular glass slide I have is a little on the large side. So I have ordered a couple more slides - a Dunlop 212, which is a glass slide with thick walls, yet shorter and tighter than my existing slide. I also figured I'd try a Johnny Winter signature slide, meant for fast aggressive pinky playing, which sounds like it might be my sort of thing too.
We'll see! I don't really want to buy too many of these things, but I don't think that my first slide (although amazing fun) was quite right for me.
Any slide advice?
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Donīt have any advice, but you remind me to play a little more slide again and maybe finally get a hand of it. And get my lapsteel out again too.
Maybe I should also get one of those lighter glass slides like you. Only have a metal one, which is light, and a heavy ceramic or something one (for which my action seems way too low even though it is rather high).
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Have fun with it!
I use a brass slide; I find glass to be too shrill. I still prefer using lap steel for slide work, though.
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Nice one! You'll be an old blueser yet :grin:
I have several slides for different vibes. I have a piece of brass piping that my drummer sorted out in 1983 from the Physics Department at Exeter Uni - that's my main slide. I have a few Dunlop slides - one clear glass, one chrome plated, and one brass - they're all good. And I have a green bottleneck - that's quite tasty.
They all behave differently and give different types of slide tone. Eg if I want tight and accurate on an electric (fender, cleanish), the clear glass or the chromed slide are best. I find that Brass is a nice weight for getting the slide onto the strings but not too much fret noise - I can just slap a brass slide on and not worry. Lighter or heavier (I've got a great big ceramic thing), I find I have to concentrate on pressing harder or softer too much - but I do get used to it after a while.
As to which finger - whatever feels good. My standard is the little finger, because that gives me the most fingers for fretting - and I've used it that way ever since the early 80s. But I do use ring finger as well sometimes.
Listen to or watch (youtube) Rory - there's a LOT of slide overdubs on Top Priority, for example, and live footage of Mississippi Sheikhs and Brute Force & Ignorance are stunning. Watching him in the 80s made me realise slide is a LOT easier than it seems. You can get too precious about it, worrying about the extra noise etc. Just go for it, play a lot, revel in the funny noises, and look for tones that turn you on personally.
I read a Duane Allman bio (Skydog), and apparently that's what he did. He was looking for a sound, and heard about slide. He got a slide and then spent weeks wandering round the house just playing slide guitar. When you find tones that grab you, you'll be able to "say stuff" with them, and everyone listening goes "hey that's cool, wish I could do that". Oh, if you haven't come across it, The Allman Brothers At The Filmore East, WOW WOW WOW. Just listen to the opener, Statesboro Blues - that's some serious slide tone. There's loads more slide on that album, but that's the one that sticks out for lead stuff.
On the guitar itself, maybe raise the action slightly. Rory used to raise the saddle on just the high E on a strat to aid playing slide in standard tuning - I tried that, and yes, it seemed to help a bit... NO IDEA WHY THOUGH!!!
Finally, do check out open G and D tunings. The crazy rock n roll slide stuff Rory did (Bullfrog, In Your Town, Souped Up Ford) are all on a "G" tuning. His was actually tuned up to A and then a capo slapped on - but it's the G shape: DGDGBD. When I was learning it was easier to play slide chords and find licks. But once you're getting happy on it, the middle strings --DGB- are exactly the same as standard tuning, so suddenly you find you can play slide in standard. Also, with the (low) 6th string taken off, that's Keef's guitar - Brown Sugar, etc sound fabulous when you tune the geetar right!
But, yep, have FUN. There is something about slide guitar - sounds like it's just grabbed you. I found that just a bit of practice, getting over the initial hurdles, and suddenly EVERYONE seems impressed by really simple stuff, even the other guitarists in the room!! :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Sooooo.....I am mostly inspired by what the Wilco folks do with slide. Gotta pick out some good examples outside of "The Lonely 1", later on in studio version earlier in the live version. Brilliant song btw. What a show closer when you are a name (they did it as an encore when I first some them on a long story rock and roll thing).
that song live....holy....
What would you recon can get me closest to that singing, lapsteel-ish, tone?
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I was hoping for one of your longer posts Andy! Of course, Rory was a cool slide player himself, that totally slipped my mind. I'll be checking him out tomorrow along with your other suggestions.
In fact I also put an order in for something called a Rock Slide which is a short brass slide with ergonomic cut outs so we'll see what it's like.
Slide definitely has grabbed me yes, I'm working out how I can include it in my existing material!
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If you want to see some kuh-razy slide playing, as well as incredible playing in general, check out JD Simo. He is my Rock Messiah lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MSYhor_gPI
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My Rock Slide arrive and it is very nicely made. We'll see how I like it in use later, but its good quality for sure.
(I still like this old BKP forum Rory favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSe5v7mJMiY :afro:)
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Here's a fab Cradle Rock from Rory, Montreux 75. There is slide, kicks in about 2.20. Fine example of rock and roll slide on a virtually clean strat!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k4iocWURPk
And talking of clean slide, check out Lowell George of Little Feat.
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Oh
My
God
WOWOWOWWWWW
Footage of the Allmans, with Duane, actual moving pictures of Duane playing slide!!!!!!
(pity the cameraman is on anything but Duane's guitar when he's playing lead breaks)(and the sound is patchy - Greg's vocal suffers)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JduaboHRCyg (Don't keep me wondering)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyhyor0yU3o (Dreams - you don't see it, but just listen to that slide break kick in at 5.22)
Last time I searched, such stuff didn't exist.
There's no slide on this last one, but it has the best sound out of the three songs I could find - Whipping Post, oh wow. This is why Stormy Monday pickups! And what a fine looking SG that Dicky Betts is playing! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUvxRjYqjEQ
I've had a copy of the original live at the Fillmore East album since 1982 or so - I didn't "get it" back then, I was a bit disappointed, I only connected with Statesboro Blues and Stormy Monday Blues, the rest seemed a bit overblown and boring. But Duane has been a bit of a hero ever since. Last few years I've been listening to the remastered and expanded version a lot - and I got the complete recordings set a while back. These guys really knew what they were doing. You know that "if you had a time machine, what would you do?" question? Obviously there's a few gigs of one's heroes, but if I was only alllowed one gig, I'd go and see the Allmans in 1970 when Duane was alive.
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If you want to see some kuh-razy slide playing, as well as incredible playing in general, check out JD Simo. He is my Rock Messiah lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MSYhor_gPI
HOLY FLIPPIN SMOKESSS!!!
I'd never heard of him - YESSSSS!
THanks for posting that :-)
And chaps - a 60s Baja with Yardbirds sounds like that... a little slower mebbe, but that's the tone!
And because of what I'd been checking out, this is what came up next:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eubOmCZDHVY
Woof! Joe Bona-who??
Why isn't this bloke as famous as Mr B and that Mayer chap?
I'm sold - he's brilliant!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kKGFuqpE5w
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And now I'm seeing Simo at 02 Islington on Wed 7th Dec - cool! :-)
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There's some monster slide playing on this track, Gwem (SIMO's album, track 6, Please)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQGjBpuvm6c&list=PL1o3dtzt4fC6QBn90XBW6fGtoYCN1GJg-&index=6
EDIT: And track 7 starts with some GORGEOUS naked slide.
OK, I'm going upstairs now to turn an amp on!! :evil:
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The last three Simo tracks you posted Andy are excellent stuff. Bluesy, but also somehow with Motown and Gospel influences.
Angel is on my way home from work, could probably join you for a pre-gig drink or bite in December.
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Meanwhile I tried my RockSlide last night. The ergonomics are brilliant, feels very comfy. I do believe I prefer the fat smooth tone of glass, but the weight of the brass is very comforting and I have the feeling my playing is more accurate.
Still waiting for the other slides to come, but I'm quite happy with the RockSlide, I'd feel comfortable to gig with it. Nevertheless, it could be a little smaller still. I might put a bit of tape on the inside... had no idea I had such small fingers(!)
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lol
Slides are defintely designed with sausage fingers in mind!!
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Just ordered a couple of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Planet-Waves-Glass-Bottle-Slide/dp/B0006V6SB8
Years ago you couldn't get them in the UK - I have some old brown glass pill bottles I got from Boots instead, but they're not the right shape or long enough really.
I suddenly wondered if, nowadays, what would happen if I searched for "Coricidin Bottle" - woo! You can get anything on Amazon... especially if your missus has a Prime account :)
I shall be channelling Duane tomorrow.
I'll check out RockSlide.
Btw, there is some SERIOUS slide playing available on youtube by this JD Simo chap (he uses a Coricidin Bottle too).
And, he's cut all his hair off!!! There's footage of an April gig this year with short hair!!
Angel is on my way home from work, could probably join you for a pre-gig drink or bite in December.
Sounds like a good idea - I work in Islington anyway, and we've got to suss out how quickly R can get there (leaving Herne Hill at 7). I'm keen on getting in on time to see the first act, Federal Charm, I saw them supporting Joanne Shaw Taylor last November, they're pretty damn good.
There was still tickets available last time I looked, if you're interested?
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Wow! Is it these guys?
http://www.therockslide.com/
The Rolls Royce of slides! Which one did you get?
There's a guy called Stevie Simpson - had a band called Meal Ticket, was in Ronnie Lane's Slim Chance, I used to go and see him Sunday lunchtimes in Surbiton - classy slide player. He used a socket from a socket set, padded out with gaffa tape. He did tell me what size socket, but I forget! It made for a real heavy slide. He used it because his hero Lowell George of Little Feat used something similar. Anyway, after that, I took a chromed half-size slide and padded it with gaffa so it jammed on my finger. That worked great on a strat in standard tuning.
I've got one of these too - it's my favourite slide for resonator (although the brass pipe probably sounds better) cos it looks and feels so righteous :grin::
http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com/TheRedhouse.html
The older guy who used to run Wunjo's in Denmark St originally had a place called the London Resonator Store in Islington. A whole shop of resonators and slides and stuff. He stocked Diamond Bottle Necks so I was able to check out a whole batch and grab the one I liked - they're off real bottles, so they tend to come off in a random way. I notice they do a Pill Bottle Slide as well now. Oh well, let's see how the Planet Waves ones do first.
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That's them! I got the satin brass slide in small from stringsdirect. It's the best slide I've ever used - but bear in mind I've used only one other slide ;) I put two layers of gaffa tape inside and now it's good for me.
The other two slides I've ordered arrive next week so I'll be able to comment more.
I got the RockSlide since I watched a YouTube video from a lady slide player who talked about the small slides she had. Seeing she tried the Johnny Winter and 212 from Dunlop and liked that too, I thought it'd be a good one to try too.
With the half length slides, I also think they would be a good idea. I may well try one, 'knuckle slides' they seem to be advertised as. But I'll hold off until I tried those other slides. Muddy Waters also used a small slide on his Telecaster, at least according to Johnny Winter Muddy's slide was similar to his except that it only covered three strings.
Last night I did a gig and brought the Rock Slide out for one track. It went down well for the audience, was fun for me, and was weirdly easier live than at home (new things don't normally work that way!).
Might well join you for the gig itself. But I'll wait until nearer the time to decide for sure. It'll be good to meet, it's been so long.
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I got the glass "pill bottles" yesterday - gosh, seriously tasty. I was expecting them to play pretty much like my Dunlop glass slide but "hey, I look like Duane Allman now..."
Nope, they're definitely different, and more effective. It's kind of lighter, and the glass feels sort of "harder" and brighter on the strings (I'm sure it's not, just feels it). And it just SINGS. I've just been playing it at loud volume upstairs - it's magnificent. I did a lot of playing through the THR10C in the living room yesterday, that was good. But the THR100 unleashed a bit is somthing else.
The brass tube is still cute, but I think these clear glass bottles are my "go to" electric slides for the moment.
I'm trying to figure out whether it would do anything for you. I suspect not, at the moment, remembering what it was like when I started trying to get some slide going - the glass one I first bought was kind of bamboozling me, then my drummer "borrowed" it for a day and took it to the engineers in the Physics department as a size guide. He came back with the brass tube I've been using ever since.
Funnily enough, I DO remember it being easier playing slide live in front of an audience, though! :grin: - crumbs that does take me back. I wasn't convinced I was getting anywhere, but the drummer liked it, and then I seemed to get by live. I think it's a little bit to do with the volume, the backing you're playing to tends to keep you honest (in tune!), and you basically have to go for the notes you know how to play! The muting, the tone, everything sort of comes by instinct. Then you spend months trying to get that same sound practicing in the bedsit!!
That's partly why I went up to the "studio" and cranked the big amp just now. SG in standard tuning, and quite a low action for me, with a 70s/80s Marshall sound - it's pretty darn good.
Going to try a Tele now.
I think I might have to set one of the Teles to G. It'll probably be one of the two with Blackguards in.
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My goodness, that is a great steer from Ben-gonna check this chap out. Meanwhile , it is good to see that a slide purchase leads to more interest. I play a bit of slide though for practical reasons, i.e not swapping about too much mid gig, I generally use standard tuning. It is nice playing open tuning though. I have a few Dunlop 218's and I use them on my ring finger which seems to suit me.
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My goodness, that is a great steer from Ben-gonna check this chap out.
Yep - many thanks, BIG TIME, Ben. The current Simo album arrived on Saturday (along with Pure McCartney - a FABULOUS set... hehe - who else misses Roo on here? :grin: :grin:), I was listening to it again on the way in to work.
And I've just received notification that Little Feat's Waiting For Columbus has shipped. Haven't heard that for years. And I've since found out, by the way, which socket to get for that "authentic Lowell George slide tone" - it's an 11/16, NOT a 5/8 as some believe (I found an hilarious argument about it somewhere - I assume the guy who "won" was actually right :grin:).
I have to say, Gwem getting a slide has certainly woken my guitar playing up again. I've even managed to get the Country Boys dialled in on my Fender Japan Custom Tele. They've been "OK" but I was concentrating on the SG and, to a lesser extent, the 60s Baja that took the Custom's Yardbirds.
Basically, I've lowered the pickup heights on a bunch of guitars while using the big amp, the THR100HD. We're now crunching, rocking, singing and CHIMING (it wasn't doing that before) with the SG, a Les Paul, an Apache'd strat, and both of these Teles... all on the same amp setting.
The moral of the story is - don't set pickup heights through a whispering THR10C sat on the sofa while watching Pointless/etc on the TV (the guitars, newly adjusted at volume, still sound good through the whispering TRH10C).
And it's all because of slide guitar :smiley:
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No thanks necessary, gents. What kind of Messiah would JD be if he didn't have Disciples? lol :)
I agree, he is CRIMINALLY ignored in guitar circles in favour of Flavour Of The Month guys like Philip Sayce, whose playing and tone I think is just so-so. Simo can play straight-up Nashville country to the most searing blues-rock freak-out jams, he NEVER over plays, his tone is just SICK, and he has no rock-star pretense.
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The Johnny Winter and the 212 slides arrived.
In fact, compared to the RockSlide both are nothing really special.
I liked the tone of the 212, but it was still a touch too big and I didn't like the feel too much with those big walls.
The Johnny Winter was, as promised in the marketing bumpf, light and fast. I did like it, and I can imagine that I will use it from time to time as a backup or alternative. In fact it was also a little big, but a layer of gaffa tape has sorted that out.
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Additionally I have ordered a knuckle slide from voodoo slides, with 32mm length. So I'll see how that goes.
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The man is addicted! hehe
I've been listening to the Faces thinking "how did Ron Wood get that UTTERLY AWFUL but somehow enormously appealing guitar sound?"
(It was Ron Wood in the Faces that my drummer in the early 80s was so keen on for slide guitar).
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The man is addicted! hehe
I've been listening to the Faces thinking "how did Ron Wood get that UTTERLY AWFUL but somehow enormously appealing guitar sound?"
(It was Ron Wood in the Faces that my drummer in the early 80s was so keen on for slide guitar).
I know you what you mean.. I don't listen to too much of The Faces, but I seem to recall it was a kind of tinny fuzz kinda tone.
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The knuckle slides from Voodoo Slides arrived. First, I must say they are equistely made, and to the exact dimensions I requested. I highly recommend them.
The 15mm and 16mm internal diameters fit my pinky perfectly and the short length they have means I can switch from normal playing to slide very easily.
However, I am not really 100% happy. The reason is that the notes with these small slides are rather choked and lacking sustain. I think because of the reduced mass of the slide. I think they would be better with a heavier material.
So still the RockSlide is my favourite and the Johnny Winter is my second favourite.
I've now ordered a 16mm Joe Perry slide so we'll see how that does.
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So I did the blues thing and made my own. Got myself a short length of copper pipe with inner and outer dimensions (15mm ID, 19mm OD) I felt were the right size. I also got a plumbers pipe cutter.
Frankly, I'm perfectly happy with the results.
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Cool!
"Green fingers" :grin:
You won't be truly blues, though, until you:
a) Get a neck (usable for slide) off of a wine bottle without bleeding to death
or
b) Use a knife to play slide (preferably sat on the porch)
I have yet to achieve either, although I did have a good crack at a) a few years ago (I gave up and bought one!)
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Cool!
"Green fingers" :grin:
You won't be truly blues, though, until you:
a) Get a neck (usable for slide) off of a wine bottle without bleeding to death
or
b) Use a knife to play slide (preferably sat on the porch)
I have yet to achieve either, although I did have a good crack at a) a few years ago (I gave up and bought one!)
The RockSlide does ring a bit more, but the copper pipe feels nicer as it doesn't have layers of gaffa tape inside. Overall, I'd say I like them both equally.
By the way, I liked the sounds of the porcelain Joe Perry slide alot, but it was bigger than stated (17mm vs 16mm) and I didn't like the feel of the huge wall width that much.
So I guess I am, reluctantly, a metal slide kinda guy since they can be made a bit less thick. I do prefer the glass and ceramic tone though.