Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Guitars, Amps and Effects => Topic started by: Lucas on December 12, 2016, 06:45:29 PM
-
Hi, few days ago I changed my set up quite a bit and started using amp`s valve distortion instead of stomp boxes. I`ve been always a pedal guy having few distortion/overdrive pedals but now got rid of them and cranked my Orange Dual Terror to get distortion out of the amp instead.
My question is... what would be better option to 'thicken up', beef up the tone of the amp? I`ve seen loads of people using overdrive pedal in front to do that eg. Maxon OD808, but how would compressor pedal work? I have compressor pedal laying idle around and wondering if I can use that to enhance the tone a bit. Ideally I would keep that on all the time.
and another question, as my amp doesnt have FX loop, is there anything that I can do to still use delay pedal in front of cranked amp? I know all modulation and time based effects should be placed after distortion but now it`s not an option and need delay sometimes for leads.
many thanks
-
I'd use an overdrive in front of the amp on the dirty channel whether its an OD808 or tubescreamer, I find for me it does tighten up the tone and makes it less "flubby" whilst compressing it slightly and making it richer in the mids. Every amp and guitar set up is different though but I find its most common for drop tuned metalcore bands and stuff. Basically dial back some gain on the head and then keep the drive low on the pedal, and level around 75% of the way up.
A compressor is something I'd consider using for cleans to balance out the string volumes when doing picking for example, more sustain, etc. I haven't considered using it for the dirty.
As for the delay some pedals can sound good in front of the amp, if using the FX loop isn't an option. You do want to keep it after the overdrive in the signal path though, otherwise you'll be distorting your delays.
-
Thanks for quick reply.
Thing is, in my playing I switch between clean/distortion quite often. One channel of my amp is dirty, the other is clean. Turning on/off overdrive pedal at the same time while switching channels might be tricky, I`m not good at tap dancing :)
I have compressor pedal laying around and not being used. Was wondering if I can use it and ideally keep it on all the time to enhance the tone (yes, it will help with cleans, what sort of the impact will it have on distortion channel?)
Delay, I`m totally aware that time based effects should be placed after distortion but my amp does not have FX loop. So it means that I have to drop delay and there`s no settings ect whcih will be usable in front of the amp? I use delay for some leads
cheers
-
I have the same deal in my current bands, but luckily I play on distortion channel 80% of the set. If I do switch to clean I sometimes leave it on as I like how it gives a bit of dirt to the sound (I usually push the crunch button and turn the gain down to give it some breakup). So its not like I play on a squeaky clean clean sound, I like some dirt there. You could use the volume knob to roll off some gain as well, sometimes I do this if I'm not acting like a lunatic out in the crowd haha.
I haven't used a compressor on the dirty channel live so I can't really help on that, someone else will probably know and advise better than me.
As for the delay you can still run it in the chain, it'll just be in front of the amp that's all, so place it after your distortion and into the input of the amp. Some people actually prefer it in front, personally if the amp has an FX loop I use it via that. But if using, say a combo amp I don't have any other option.
-
I used a compressor on the dirty channel for a couple gigs in 2007.
I thought it would help to increase the harmonic feedback from my gear. That did work, but actually it was kind of a menace - difficult to setup for each venue so I stopped bothering. Didn't really notice my tone was thicker.
-
I would use either an overdrive (e.g., Maxon OD808 or MXR M77) with the level maxed and the gain as low as you can manage - or if it has a LOT of gain (like a Peavey 5150) you could just use a clean boost like the MXR/CAE MC401
The other alternative would be an EQ pedal with plenty of boost like the MXR 6-band
If you just want to 'thicken' and add gain a clean boost can work
If you specifically want to cut lows and boost mids then an overdrive could be better, or an EQ.
The MXR M77 is quite adjustable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwOtEPU2GOE
-
cheers gentlemen!
another option that I consider is adding little bit of chorus. That would help especially with cleans, I`m only only one guitar in the band and while on cleans it sounds too raw.
Chorus would make clean parts richer plus would thicken up distorted parts. Just think Zakk Wylde. In my case I would use much much much less chorus, just a bit to hear the difference, very subtle.
And again... chorus in front of distorted amp? Apparently MXR Zakk Wylde chorus was designed to use this way. Can anyone confirm that?
Delay... I just wrote an email to TC Electronics to recommend me some Tone Print (I use Flashback delay) which would work better before distorted amp.
no FX loop, but at the moment changing an amp is not the option either.
-
Yes I have the Wylde MXR chorus and use it that way
Keep in mind that their Analog Chorus is the same pedal with a different pedal. Just get whichever is cheaper or more to your liking aesthetically
I use the MXR chorus pedal for both gothic style clean parts and black metal tremolo-strummed octave chords
-
If you just want to 'thicken' and add gain a clean boost can work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwOtEPU2GOE
Actually you have put an idea into my head! :)
I also have Xotic EP booster which I placed at the end of the chain, I use it only as volume boost for solos. As far as I know people use it in front as well and it does different job.
placing EP booster in front and keep it on, and using compressor pedal at the end of the chain for volume boost on solos?
Would that work?
the whole problem is that I have to re-arange the whole setup as I stopped using distortion pedals and started using amp distortion instead.
-
I'm not sure how the compressor would work at the end of the chain ... would depend on the unit and how you set it up, but they can be very noisy ... but try the boost in front of your amp as a baseline to see what you like about it and if there are any negatives.
Sounds like you might benefit from an EQ pedal. You could put that in either spot. Possibly more useful as your solo boost and you could add mids or whatever
-
Yes I have the Wylde MXR chorus and use it that way
Keep in mind that their Analog Chorus is the same pedal with a different pedal. Just get whichever is cheaper or more to your liking aesthetically
I use the MXR chorus pedal for both gothic style clean parts and black metal tremolo-strummed octave chords
That`s good news, so I can keep MXR chorus on all the time with subtle settings in front of distorted amp. it will work.
what about compressor then? is it worth placing it anywhere? I have one and never use it
-
There are a lot of videos using the MXR with gain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=merGvga39Yo
I route my chorus, harmonist, and delays (Carbon Copy and DD-7) through a Boss LS-2. Any looper circuit will help in reducing frantic tap dancing. I should underline that these are all in the effects loop, after gain.
I have a compressor too and barely use it! Good for cleans, or if you want a shrill, distorted mess with high gain at the end of a set!
-
Sorry I missed the 'in front of' bit when I first replied.
As far as I know chorus can be used in front of gain, it will just sound different
I'd recommend the MXR there too.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/a-good-simple-chorus-for-for-before-overdrive.1580703/
-
I should underline that these are all in the effects loop, after gain.
that`s my problem, no FX loop
how do you find using MXR chorus in front of distortion?
-
I haven't used it but all MXR pedals seem to have a good reputation with gain and this one does too, and according to that link above it works well in front of the amp.
Avoid the simpler chorus pedals. The low, high, and depth controls can be quite useful
-
I haven't used it but all MXR pedals seem to have a good reputation with gain and this one does too, and according to that link above it works well in front of the amp.
Avoid the simpler chorus pedals. The low, high, and depth controls can be quite useful
I`ve read that thread and someone was complaining that apparently MXR was too noisy in front of the amp. Then that person changed it to TC Electronics Corona chorus and it was perfect.
-
That's strange, you'd think it would be more likely to have noise problems further down the chain. I have mine after all of the noise reduction, EQs, and gain and it is not noisy. Might be the case that the pedal was faulty.
-
Best way to thicken a guitar tone is to add very short delay via modulation, detuning effect, or double track pedal.
-
A lot of people run a Carbon Copy on a short delay for that reason
-
I've been through all kinds of overdrives throughout the years
sd-1, ts9, ts9dx, od9, od808, some analogman and keeley maxons, and some tube driven maxon
they worked really well, but they always add the "scream" effect
lot of bass cut, lot of midrange boost and that extra tightness that is great for metal, but that definitely changes the amps tone
I've tried a few equalizers as well, and had good results with some old' 81 blue maxon 6 band eq, that made my sound tight and crunchy without changing much of the core tone, but also added a ton of noise
if I was going back to play metal only, I'd still be happy with a tube screamer type overdrive
these days I've been enjoying a tc electric classic sustain parametric equalizer
it has a control for compression, another for output and a simple single frequency range parametric control with a peak/notch control
it doesn't add a lot of gain like an overdrive and doesn't cut anything unless you dial it as a frequency cut instead of a boost
I love how I'm able to add some actual compression, a little output and boost the center mids without making the amp sound like it's shooting lasers
my tone is now less "squished" and focused, so I might sacrifice a little low end tightness but I get much thicker lead and rhythm tones, and also better dynamics than when I used overdrives
if you wanna preserve the amps tone and just add that extra oomph in your picking and sustain without sounding super tight and aggressive, there are plenty of boosting options these days
if I didn't acquire the classic sustain in a trade (I traded my tube driven maxon tbo-9, by the way), I'd probably buy the tc spark boost or a pigtronix philosopher's tone micro
the bogner harlow sounds interesting too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3oCA_ui9aQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uywswAOwCU0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1K9EY4z_g
-
if you wanna preserve the amps tone and just add that extra oomph in your picking and sustain without sounding super tight and aggressive, there are plenty of boosting options these days
if I didn't acquire the classic sustain in a trade (I traded my tube driven maxon tbo-9, by the way), I'd probably buy the tc spark boost or a pigtronix philosopher's tone micro
the bogner harlow sounds interesting too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3oCA_ui9aQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uywswAOwCU0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1K9EY4z_g
I actually have Xotic EP booster at the end of the chain for volume boost. At this moment it`s at the end of my pedal chain but still BEFORE overdriven amp.
I wouldn`t mind a little bit more gain while boosted but just a bit.
Was thinking about chorus pedal as it would add some depth to cleans as well, but I`m little afraid to use it in front of the amp.
so you recommend Tc electric classic sustain parametric equalizer to run it at the beginning of the chain and while still using EP booster as a volume boost for solos?
Basically I need something to tight the tone up, add some 'depth' on both distortion and cleans. Ideally I would keep that pedal on all the time regardless the channel I`m on, plus I would keep EP Booster for volume boost on solos.
I already know that compressor pedal that I have laying around idle is not a good option.
-
It`s getting quite confusing. To simplify my current set up is:
-Orange Dual Terror Amp (no FX loop), I use one channel clean, one fully distorted.
pedals as stopped using distortion from stomp boxes:
-Dunlop Wah
-TC Electronics Flashback delay
-tuner (but here it`s not important)
-Xotic Ep booster
-Wampler Ego Compressor pedal (not using that at all for ages, would it be useful if not I will sell it)
so chain is:
guitar -> tuner -> wah -> delay -> Ep booster (volume boost for solos) -> front of the amp
I don`t play any extreme metal to be super tight and super aggressive (my Ceramic Nailbomb and Miracle Man pickups are aggressive enough). I need something ideally staying always on to thicken the tone up, balance it, give it a bit more gain and sustain (my Orange amp lacks a little tiny bit of gain), smooth a bit everything and give more 'depth' on both channels. I play rock/heavy rock/metal. I would say Metallica, Black Label Society, Killswitch Engaged would be the heaviest styles I play.
Maxon / Tubescreamer will make it more aggressive?
Compressor will be useless for that application?
Chorus will sound bad in front of distorted amp ant too messy?
-
I actually have Xotic EP booster at the end of the chain for volume boost. At this moment it`s at the end of my pedal chain but still BEFORE overdriven amp.
I wouldn`t mind a little bit more gain while boosted but just a bit.
Was thinking about chorus pedal as it would add some depth to cleans as well, but I`m little afraid to use it in front of the amp.
so you recommend Tc electric classic sustain parametric equalizer to run it at the beginning of the chain and while still using EP booster as a volume boost for solos?
Basically I need something to tight the tone up, add some 'depth' on both distortion and cleans. Ideally I would keep that pedal on all the time regardless the channel I`m on, plus I would keep EP Booster for volume boost on solos.
I already know that compressor pedal that I have laying around idle is not a good option.
if you can find one for cheap, yes I do
it was like 300 USD new, but I got it in a really good trade with lots of cash on the other guys side
mine is the reissue version, but people on internet claim that the original 80's version is better
as I said, it won't really work as a "tightener" as well as an overdrive as it won't cut the low end, but it with proper setup, it will thicken up your tone if you add some mids and a little compression without adding a lot of bass like a real clean boost pedal like the ep booster would do, so it does make you sound tighter
I'm still able to get pretty tight KsE-like tones with my short hydra (basically a lp custom) loaded with a holy diver/emerald set
the more mids you add, tighter and more overdrive-like it will sound, up to a point it will start sounding like a crybaby
adding lower mids or upper mid range sounds great for some other stuff, though, but I tend to focus on the center mids
it works great as a mid cut too, so you can clean up a distorted channel instead of boosting it
I use it right after the wah and before everything else
jerry cantrell crybaby -> planet waves tuner pedal -> tc classic sustain -> boss/ibanez/visual sound delays/choruses -> hush noise suppressor -> modded '73 marshall
if I add my oliver roland licensed sd-1 clone or my lovepedal superlead, it will be right after the compressor
I'm pretty sure there are other compressor pedals with similar mid boost or eq features, though
if you don't need an actual compressor, you could try an actual parametric equalizer with more band controls instead
that would probably do the job for me too
the advantage of having both things is that I can add a little more sustain from the compressor and not just the extra sustain from pushing frequencies into the amp input stage
Maxon / Tubescreamer will make it more aggressive?
Compressor will be useless for that application?
Chorus will sound bad in front of distorted amp ant too messy?
1 - I love them, but yes, they tend to sound aggressive in comparison to the non-overdrive alternatives
2 - not really, as you can still get better sustain without using a lot of gain in the amp
I personally don't like setting a lot of gain in the amps, as most of them tend to get flubby and bassy when the gain control is set high, even if they're not really high gain amps
plus, turning a pedal off can help you go back to cleaner sounds without messing with the volume controls in the guitar, which can be much more confusing for some people (like me)
3 - SOME chorus pedals can sound good in front of a distorted amp, but they don't just thicken up the sound
a chorus in the front will always give a certain vibe that's different from the natural sound of an unmodulated distortion
there's always that early Alice in Chains/Zakk Wylde thing going on, which can be desirable or not
-
TC classic sustain unfortunately is too expensive at the moment for my budget.
I must say that TC Spark boost sounds interesting. So I`m left with 2 options actually (I gave up an idea with chorus anyway).
1. TC Spark boost (would give an edge and bit of 'breakup tube sound' on cleans plus gets valves cooking more on drive.
2. compressor pedal (which I have and dont use at all), but I`m totally unfamiliar what settings would do the job for me. I would like to keep it either TC spark boost always on regardless channel I`m on.
thanks again for great help!
-
If going with the Spark Boost I would go for the full size version, not the mini version with one knob
-
If going with the Spark Boost I would go for the full size version, not the mini version with one knob
Full version definitely. Mini one reminds me of my Xotic Ep booster
Would Spark boost be my best option?
-
I've only ever used the MXR/CAE MC401 boost, which just has the one knob. More knobs will give you more adjustment, so I assume that's a good thing
-
I've had 2 spark boosts and ended up selling both. Versatile but I didn't like what they did to the tone, can't really explain it. I wouldn't use a tubescreamer type pedal to fatten, the opposite actually!
I've just built a Fuzz Dogs clone of the LPB-1 and it's perfect for fattening and adding saturation. The original pedal was actually cheaper than the clone but I wanted the smaller form factor of the clone (it's tiny!). The ehx one is really cheap and I'd say well worth a try.
-
If you want a fat sound you could try an Earthquaker Devices Acapulco Gold pedal, but be careful what you wish for ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neazXtE5mPE
-
I'd strongly suggest people used to a Maxon or Ibanez OD try one of the following pedals, which IMO are far superior:
1) Mesa Boogie Gridslammer - Slightly darker edge to it, but extremely tight and musical. Will let more of the natural sound of the amp come through. My favorite pedal to use in front of brighter amps.
2) MXR GT-OD - Essentially a TS808 clone but with more of a transparent sound. Tightens the bottom end but lets more "good" lows in and no annoying mid-hump which can thin out your sound (which is why I hate the Maxon).
3) MXR Custom Badass OD - Similar the one above but takes it even further with the 80hz knob. Whats cool about this is it will do all the good things we all love about OD pedals, but lets you control exactly how much "good" low end is in your mix while still scooping out the sub-bass frequencies which mud up your sound. Also this pedal is a bit more aggressive sounding than any other OD pedal I've heard, yet still doesn't color your amps sound too much.
Really all of these have the classic TS tightening effect, with added sustain and hitting your amp harder, but without the obnoxious upper mid honk and thin bottom end you get from something like the Maxon. In essence, it does all the good things people like but while letting more of the amps natural sound to come through. I never use Maxon or Ibanez ODs anymore since I discovered these.
I personally prefer the Mesa/Boogie Grid Slammer the most, in terms of not only tone but quality. It brings out the best of my ENGL, Mesa, VHT, and Soldano amps I tend to play a lot. For those who own a PRS Archon 100 head, its definitely makes that amp sound better than any other pedal I've tried as sell.
-
+1 on the Custom Badass
I traded my OD9 to a friend after I discovered that. Now he is the one dealing with its horrid silent switch
-
Mesa Boogie Gridslammer - Slightly darker edge to it, but extremely tight and musical. Will let more of the natural sound of the amp come through. My favorite pedal to use in front of brighter amps.
I must say that Mesa sounds really impressive! I`m totally torn between Mesa and Spark Booster now. Whatever pedal I will choose. I want it to stay on all the time on both clean and dirty channel. On cleans to add more 'depth' and little subtle breakup sound and overdrive to tighten everything up and add some little gain.