Bare Knuckle Pickups Forum
Forum Ringside => Pickups => Topic started by: ztevie on January 18, 2017, 10:27:58 PM
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So I got myself a custom guitar from Padalka.
It's a great player, with these specs:
Superstrat style. Mahogany body with 16mm maple top. Set neck. Maple neck and board. 24 stainless frets, 24.75" scale.
Musical preferences: Progressive instrumental metal/rock. Sfogli, Petrucci, Gilbert, Timmons kind of tone.
Bridge pickup: Must be tight with attack and fast response. Palm muting tight riffing, but should have some singing/creamy quality to it when soloing high up on the thinner strings. Not muddy, not shrill.
Been thinking about Juggernaut or Holy Diver. I have a Nailbomb Alnico in another guitar, and it's really nice for this but want something else for variety. I'm afraid juggernaut will be to loose even though it should fit the soloing part well?
Painkiller might fit the rhythm thing but is totally off for the lead sound I'm after?
Neck pickup: Almost exclusively used for soloing. Sustainrich, soaring creamy stuff mixed with fast runs. The problem I always have with neck pickups is that when playing faster stuff on the wound strings, notes mush together. So it needs to be tight aswell. I tend to lean towards brighter neck pups because of this, but I'm aware that some of that sustainy/creamy qualities will suffer then.
I have a Cold Sweat in another guitar and its pretty good for this kind of music, but as with the bridge, hopefully I can find something else for variety.
Which is the brightest BK contemporary neck pup? Some seem to claim it's Holy Diver and then someone else says they are not especially bright. Rebel Yell? Nailbomb neck? How's the painkiller neck, don't hear much about that one? Emerald, but here were going into lower output territory? Juggernaut neck is probably too bassy from what I've read?
I appreciate any opinion, I've read heaps of reviews, but it's hard to form an opinion since reviews contradict eachother in some aspects.
The guitar is fairly bright in tonality but not over the top. Oh, should mention, I like a decent amount of mids in my pickups.
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Sounds like you might want a Holy Diver set
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The Holydiver is a great bridge pickup and certainly does both rhythm and lead superbly well so could well be what you're after. My only slight concern would be that if you might find the Juggernaut a bit loose in the bottom end, you might feel the same is an issue with the Holydiver. A good alternative would be the Miracle Man as it shares a lot of the qualities of the Holydiver but the ceramic magnet makes it a bit tighter while being surprisingly organic sounding. This might be a really good fit for you.
For the neck pickup, the Holydiver is certainly bright and is an incredible lead pickup while sounding surprisingly PAF-ish for something from the contemporary section. Don't be put off the Emerald just because it's in the Vintage Hot section as the neck pickup is certainly hot. It actually sounds more modern than the Holydiver neck pickup. It is slightly darker sounding because of the hotter wind but 43AWG wire keeps things tight so you get the cream with the articulation. I'd say the Emerald neck is as hot as your Coldsweat neck pickup.
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I would say Miracle Man for the bridge too.
I have one in slightly different guitar, but think it would be best for you even that I never used Holydiver though.
For neck, maybe Riff Raff neck, apparently it`s the brightest neck model. But it`s more vintage one,
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Thanks for some great answers!
I had a MM set in a guitar a few years back. It's tight alright and was perfect for palm muting riffing, however I felt it didn't quite hold up when soloing with the bridge pup? Maybe there was some lack of mids or something? But that was a couple of years ago and in a different guitar.
Holy Diver seems interesting though, I'm trying to find a middle road between tightness on one hand and still some creaminess for solos.
How would the Diver compare to juggernaut in the bridge just regarding tight rhythm riffing? I've read some reviews where juggernaut is really tight for that and others mention it feels a little loose? I think the Diver would definitely do plain raw rock riffing a'la Gilbert better?
I like that everyone seem to mention the Juggernaut bridge has really nice characteristics for soloing though, but the same seems to be said about the Diver...
Is the Juggernaut neck considerably darker/looser than the diver neck? I've heard many mention Emerald neck as an option aswell, so maybe worth a look. Riff Raff the brightest? I'll check that one too, but maybe I'd like a tad hotter output.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, a bridge pickup that made a huge success for me in yet another guitar was a less well known one: Tom Anderson HN3. In that guitar is glorious! Lots of mids, pretty hot but not in crazy way. It does tight riffing with a really crunchy character while it sings beautifully for lead work. It's got the right amount of everything and lacks nothing.
I think the amount of mids in that one makes it work with everything, still it's not so much that it's honky.
Only drawback is its ugly as hell!
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I don`t really think that you need a super hot output in the neck position.
There`re few nice Riff Raff neck videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAy7BTTtjzg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkRmCmrT4J8
BTW he uses RR paired with Juggernaut bridge.
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I don`t really think that you need a super hot output in the neck position.
There`re few nice Riff Raff neck videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAy7BTTtjzg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkRmCmrT4J8
BTW he uses RR paired with Juggernaut bridge.
Yeah that sounded great, especially the first one... He's got serious skills too..
I'll listen to more clips of RR, I know super hot is not needed, and sometimes it's even better with lower output for string definition and clarity...
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What sort of amp are you using? This makes a big difference.
I haven't found the Juggernaut Bridge to be loose in the lows on a 6 string guitar. It's actually pretty dry and tight, but it just screams for leads. Definitely a lead player's pickup! Also, beautiful cleans as well.
The Juggernaut neck and bridge pickups in combination produce some absolutely jaw dropping clean tones and the neck pickup doesn't seem to get overly bassy.
On a 7 string guitar, it does depend on the amplifier. I have an RG7421 and I find it's best to use a boost pedal to tighten things up. But I have an old 2 channel dual rectifier and those amps are known for being loose in the lows. I can certainly get use-able tones out of it without a boost with rolling the bass way back and adjusting the treble to taste.
As for the Juggernaut Neck under gain, it's very fluid and shreddy but it has some of that wooly 'PAF' character going on. I'd describe it as being 'liquidy' but I don't really play quickly on it since I prefer the bridge for wailing solos. It's just SO good and remains warm and thick all the way up the neck of the guitar.
You might want to consider the VHII neck pickup. It's a warm pickup but as the gain goes up, the top end becomes more pronounced. Definitely has that articulate character that you are talking about.
For a test: Put your ear right against the body of the guitar and listen as you play. Any sort of pronounced fundamental or low end will add girth and punch to the sound of the Juggernauts. If it is a guitar which lives in the upper midrange, the Juggernauts will probably project mostly center mids. If there is low end content, that will translate through the pickups. (This is -of course- contingent on the amplifier (s) you are using)
Other comments: Compared to the A-Bomb, the Juggernaut Bridge is thicker sounding, particularly up the neck. It has this purring quality to the tone and while there is a bite in the highs, it's less aggressive in the upper mids and phatter in the low mids. It's also noticeably higher in output. The pickup is also exceptionally clear while using extended chord voicings.
I can't comment on the Holy Diver (I'd love to try one) but I certainly really like the Juggernaut set. The bridge pickup -in particular- is phenomenal and definitely worth using if it is compatible with your rig.
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Thanks Yellowjacket, very informative and interesting reply!
Nowadays I use a AxeFx II XL+. So there's really no limits in terms of tweaking tone, that's for sure.
But I still feel pickups are important, you can dial in or out wanted/unwanted characteristics but imo the less you need to tweak to adjust for your pickups, the better.
I think the Juggernaut bridge would be OK. I rarely have any problems with tightness in bridge pickups, they're almost always tight enough due to the position itself. But as I've read elsewhere and as you say, that it's an amazing lead pup makes it a very interesting alternative!
It's with the neck I always struggle, here also because of the position itself, where fast runs on wound strings tend to mush together. Cold Sweat does a decent job though, and Ben told me that Holy Diver neck is even brighter than the CS. So maybe Jugg bridge/HD neck would be a nice combo?
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Double post
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Cool. I think I'll try the Juggernaut Neck pickup tonight to see how articulate it is.
I know the Rebel Yell neck is very articulate with a wide pick attack, but it's also quite a bright neck pickup.
The Holy Diver neck would probably work, especially if Ben recommends it. Also the VHII is another great option.
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Great, please report back if you have time! :)
Oh, and another thing I totally forgot, but is important!
I really like to mix in pinch harmonics here and there when soloing, so it's a big plus if it's rather effortless. Some pickups you have to really dig in to get those harmonics while others are the opposite. Maybe that's another reason i like brighter pups?
I had a Dimarzio Fred in the bridge once, and it was just insane... Harmonics flew all over the place, it was overwhelming. Slightest undeliberate touch on a string and bam! There's a harmonic flying off the fretboard. Strange thing is its not especially bright either.
It was just too much, like you were possessed by a Zakk Wylde demon or something?
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I know the Rebel Yell neck is very articulate with a wide pick attack, but it's also quite a bright neck pickup.
Rebel Yell is very similar to Cold Sweat neck, you might end up with similar pickups as Ztevie already has Cold Sweat.
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OK, report time Juggernaut Neck: Like all BKP, it is articulate under gain, ESPECIALLY when you dig in. It's a rather thick sound like hot chocolate with cream. I'd say it has an 'OOOoooo' vowel sound and it is quite liquid / fluid, but you can hear the definition from the pick attack and it never 'blurs' out unless the right and left hand are no longer synchronized. The timbre has that PAF-ish sort of a clarity. Not really woolly but more of that BKP clarity. But overall, it's quite dark and phat under gain.
Compared to what you're after it's perhaps a bit bassy and maybe not as articulate. I think a VHII N is brighter and more articulate under gain, maybe partially because of the lower output. And the Rebel Yell N is VERY articulate particularly with a wide pick attack. I personally LOVE the Juggernaut set as a whole, particularly the clean tones but if you want to get the set, I strongly advise getting a second opinion from Ben French about what you're after. Maybe the Holy Diver, VHII, or even Rebel Yell would be better options for you.
RE: Harmonics. Juggernaut Bridge does have mids and a bite in the highs. It squeals like a pig but it's very controllable. No accidental harmonics there.
I know the Rebel Yell neck is very articulate with a wide pick attack, but it's also quite a bright neck pickup.
Rebel Yell is very similar to Cold Sweat neck, you might end up with similar pickups as Ztevie already has Cold Sweat.
I have a Rebel Yell bridge PUP in one guitar and an A-Bomb bridge pickup in another. They are certainly not the same, even if they are similar. I'd defer to Ben French on this. I mean I get that he wants a unique voice, but it's gotta work with his playing style too. I think he should certainly bear this similarity in mind when making a decision but I do not believe it is wise to rule the Rebel Yell neck out entirely.
IMO, the VHII or Holy Diver neck would likely be very complementary to the Juggernaut bridge; moreso than the Rebel Yell neck. **I** would get the Juggernaut set but the OP's concerns about it are valid IMO, at least enough to make me stop and think.
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Wow, I'm impressed! Really nice mini review. Thanks a lot!
I do think the Juggernaut would be great in the bridge. But regarding the neck it sounds from your description as if I should go with something else. Maybe HD is my best bet here...
Thanks again, really appreciate it!
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What do you think about Riff Raff neck? I wouldn't score it out right away.
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painkiller set should work pretty well too
but if you want something warmer, you're between the rebll yell set and holy diver set
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Here's a video of a Holy Diver set in a guitar with similar woods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6PAW26sQv4
This one gives a better idea of the set for leads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLzET9Yy3oY
You might also like this video comparing various BKPs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EEopE1N2c8
I hope this helps
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I haven't ruled out anything. But man, watching videos throws you from one pup to the other... :)
But that's just the way things are. I'm soaking up bits and pieces here and there. I found a video where it seems he switches to Jugg neck and does a fast run on wound strings. Sounds pretty defined to me, notes don't turn to mush there anyway... Start at 5:41.
https://youtu.be/xpMWY4JCOMg
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Yes, there is pick attack and clarity on the Juggernaut Neck pickup for sure. I was just saying that it's a lot more fluid and liquidy sounding when compared to the Rebel Yell Neck, which has a super wide pick attack.
RE: the video. That's a very good indication of how it sounds for leads. You can hear the OOOOOoo vowel sound, the warm thick lows, and the super liquidy tone.
The Juggerset is amazing, period. I mean all BKP are really good, but in my estimation, the juggernaut set does cleans, rhythm, and lead all so well. It's pretty amazing, really. The feel is also spot on and the pickups just 'feel' good to play. I'd get the set. I actually got both a 6 string and a 7 string set already, so there you go.
My lump of mahogany guitar has a Rebel Yell bridge (Also a fantastic pickup) and a VHII neck, and my LP has an A-Bomb bridge and a Rebel Yell neck. Originally, I had a rebel yell set in the LP but the guitar was one of these ball of mud neck and thin bridge guitars and the Rebel Yell set mitigated the problem but didn't quite solve it. Lowering the neck pickup and getting an A-Bomb was enough to sort the issue.
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Just for testing i took out my Vigier Shawn Lane that's loaded with A-bomb/Cold Sweat. It's pretty similar in specs to the Padalka that now has Evo2/Paf Pro, although the Vigier is alder body and rosewood board while the padalka is mahogany body, maple top and maple board and is actually brighter in tone than the Vigier.
I played the same AxeFx patch and switched guitars a few times. The Cold Sweat was really much much tighter and much more articulate than the Paf Pro...
And the Nailbomb sounded so mean compared to the Evo2.
Of course it's different guitars so it's not a 100% fair comparison. But I guess this is why I like Bareknuckles. They have something extra which is hard to pinpoint unless you compare side to side.
The Juggs is of great interest atm, maybe it would be nice to try them for a different approach compared to the A-bomb/CS.
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Agent Orange,
after watching those clips I came to conclusion that Riff Raff neck is definitely brighter than Holydiver plus it has more pick attack, bite and more character as well.
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You'll love the cleans with the Juggs. Also, the bridge pickup has such a great lead tone <3
I think the A-Bomb is possibly the raunchiest and most pissed off humbucker I've ever heard. The Juggerbridge is a little more 'balanced' meaning that it can be more polite but it does turn aggressive when you dig in. Definitely will be tighter than the Evo2 & PAF Pro.
I can PM you a couple of clips if you would like.
Just for testing i took out my Vigier Shawn Lane that's loaded with A-bomb/Cold Sweat. It's pretty similar in specs to the Padalka that now has Evo2/Paf Pro, although the Vigier is alder body and rosewood board while the padalka is mahogany body, maple top and maple board and is actually brighter in tone than the Vigier.
I played the same AxeFx patch and switched guitars a few times. The Cold Sweat was really much much tighter and much more articulate than the Paf Pro...
And the Nailbomb sounded so mean compared to the Evo2.
Of course it's different guitars so it's not a 100% fair comparison. But I guess this is why I like Bareknuckles. They have something extra which is hard to pinpoint unless you compare side to side.
The Juggs is of great interest atm, maybe it would be nice to try them for a different approach compared to the A-bomb/CS.
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I can PM you a couple of clips if you would like.
Oh, please do! If you have some rhythm bridge stuff and leads from both pups it would be awesome!
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Well, Ztevie, what neck pickup have you decided on then?
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Well, Ztevie, what neck pickup have you decided on then?
Haven't made up my mind just yet, but I'm leaning towards a set of Juggs. I know they might not fit the description of me wanting something bright, but I've heard many clips now and although it's not bright per definition, it does seem to be tight and have that fast response when picking, even on the neck.
I'll give it a couple more days before final decision.
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Well, Ztevie, what neck pickup have you decided on then?
Haven't made up my mind just yet, but I'm leaning towards a set of Juggs. I know they might not fit the description of me wanting something bright, but I've heard many clips now and although it's not bright per definition, it does seem to be tight and have that fast response when picking, even on the neck.
I'll give it a couple more days before final decision.
what other neck models do you consider?
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I have to wonder if a HD neck & VH2 bridge combo might work well here.
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what other neck models do you consider?
Several... but I'm very keen to see if you get an answer to you're question in your riff Raff thread, that clip sounds great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAy7BTTtjzg
is that RR too?
Anyway, how does RR behave under hi gain for faster solos? Would you be able to record some clip with hi gain playing more 'shredy' things?
How does it sound with Juggernaut bridge?
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I'm pretty much set on the Jugg bridge. I like the idea of a bridge pup that's right and can do fluid solos aswell, even decent cleans as it seems.
For the neck I'm not quite there. The Jugg neck could be an option but since its regarded a very warm pickup I'm a bit hesitant. For me, the neck position in itself is already plenty warm.
I might just order the Jugg bridge and try some other options for the neck. I do have a SD Full Shred neck in another guitar I could try.
Another option that tickle my gas some is the SD Screamin Demon in the neck. Many reviews talk about it as a perfect neck pup that removes many of the quirks I dislike.
Like in this video below... You can hear it's very clear and shows no sign to mud at all, even doing quick runs all over the fretboard. Seems to have very fast response in the pick attack? Almost a singlecoilish character although the sound is clearly humbucker...
https://youtu.be/xfbrlale9j8
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Rebel Yell is a bright, clear neck pickup with a wide pick attack.
The Juggernaut Neck pickup is one where I wonder how it will respond in the guitar. The demos you've heard are quite similar to what I get with my RG7421. My Redline III isn't as bright and the Juggernaut Neck isn't so bright and articulate in it. It's more warm.
I have a VHII neck in my Solid Mahogany body / Mahogany bolt on neck / rosewood board short scale guitar. In that guitar, the VHII is nice and articulate. It's warm clean, but the top end bites more and more as the gain comes up.
I honestly LOVE the juggerset, especially for the myriad of AMAZING clean options. Ibanez style wiring monumentally ROCKS with these pickups. I'm actually going to try the Bridge in Parallel soon as well for even more options.
The VHII would be less powerful / less output than a juggerbridge but it could be a fantastic option nonetheless.
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When it comes to neck pickup Ztevie, you might also look at Abraxas neck too. Apparently it`s a bit brighter too with good pick attack. It`s based on Mule neck, so you can expect beautiful cleans for sure!
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I will order a Jugg set today.
I found a video where a guy makes a review where he talks about exactly the issues I have with neck pups. I think he only plays on the bridge here, but in the second half of the video he talks about the neck pup and how he likes to use the neck for leads but it always tend to be muddy and flubby. But the Jugg neck is so clear that this is not an issue with the Jugg. It sounds exactly as my problems. I think I'm not necessarily looking for avery bright pickup, but clarity AND cream.
He also has a mahogany bodied guitar worth maple neck, AND had the same fear as me for the Juggs being too dark for that guitar before he decided to buy them.
So I'll try a set out and can return it if it's still no good. Thanks for all of your assistance in helping me choose!
Here's the video: https://youtu.be/gKmH1pWrUI4
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Nice! Let me know what you think.
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Nice! Let me know what you think.
Sure!
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Here's a video where he plays lead on bridge and neck, without any other instruments involved:
https://youtu.be/NZLRFmjvv7I
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So, finally soldered them in.
Took 3 weeks to get them and it was a bit of a pain to solder. The guitar has a Schaller M 5-way switch. It has no holes, just contact surfaces, 24 of them. So it's very tight and the Luthier did a very clean wiring job with all cables being extremely short. I have a rather complicated switching with plenty of small connections between the different contacts, so it was difficult.
Anyway, now they're in and the first impression is that they're great! I was afraid the neck would be too bassy and muddy but it's not. It has plenty of bass but it's tight and the notes come out very clear and defined. Much better than the Paf Pro that was there before. It was really muddy when playing faster runs on the wound strings. So far so good! I guess the fact I use a 1 Mb volume pot and no tone helps keeping the bass in place?
I'll give them a couple of weeks and then try to do a small review, maybe I'll make a video aswell...